How can I work out around a shoulder injury?

I had (have) a bursitis in my shoulder so not as bad. It causes my medial deltoid to inflame. Its in decent shape at this point, but I always have to watch it. Clean and jerk press is clearly out for me these days.

My Physiotherapists Advice
If you do an exercise or daily routing where:
(1) you feel pain while you are working out - stop immediately what you are doing
(2) If you feel it afterwards - don't do that next time
(3) If you feel it the next day - still don't do that next time.
- If any of these things happen, make sure you ice it and rest it.

The hardest part is avoiding re injury and aggravation. Play it slow so you don't have to go back to physio. Do pushups and avoid the bench. I say any exercise that you can do that activates your core and keeps all your stabilizer muscles in check is good. So often injuries are caused because we use machines and benches to support us while we lift. Also, pull downs or pull ups are rough on shoulders. I reinjured throwing a baseball sidearm, and it was a pain, because I went backwards in physio.

Make the most of what you can do. Improve your diet, try alternative exercises / habits that work with your injury. Some of you guys recommended getting lean and I agree totally. Its the best look really, you don't have to lift much to maintain muscle while you recover.

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(03-02-2019 09:12 PM)flanders Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:29 AM)Kieran Wrote:  For me Joe Defranco's recommendations have allowed me to keep working through several shoulder injuries over the years that had been ongoing. Those are:
- get rid of overhead pressing completely
- do one hundred band pull aparts per day (I use the mini band for these, but I also programme band pull aparts in my training sessions with harder resistance in the typical 3-4 x 8-12 format as they're the best rear delt work I've found)
- include isolation work such as lateral raises for shoulder work (I'd rather be overhead pressing, but my shoulders will start playing up after a short time if I do them
- Joe recommends fixing form on the flat bench, but for me I had to get rid of it entirely and replace it with incline barbell presses which I can do pretty much pain free

DeFranco doesn't advocate getting rid of overhead pressing at all, instead substituting OHP with shit like neutral grip presses and log presses, or light push presses. That's not very good advice on the face of it since it's sort of like telling a battered wife that her husband's rage is inevitable and she should consider not scorching dinner if she doesn't like getting hit.

That being said, if he doesn't include anything like german hangs he's not much of a strength coach, nor does he understand the role of mobility or even how there's no such thing as a row that can loosen a terminally tight pec or bicep, which is the true culprit to 99% of shoulder problems and something that approximately 100% of gym rats have.

Mobility drills from men's gymnastics are about thirty years ahead of even 'cutting edge' modern bodybuilding shit like anything I've read from DeFranco's interviews. I predict in the next ten years or so there's going to be about a dozen fads from men's gymnastics creeping into mainstream bodybuilding to the benefit of bodybuilding. Hopefully that twat is reading this since you can only crib from T-nation for so long. Claiming obvious bullshit like one in fifty athletes are genetically capable of overhead pressing is insult enough to anybody who can think critically (yes, he said this in interviews repeatedly, and actually gets paid money for coaching people) so he deserves a few of my snooty comments.

60s era bodybuilders were extremely mobile in the shoulders compared to anybody from the 90s on (an obvious tell is their reliance on behind the neck pressing variants and shoulder dislocations in between sets of bench pressing). I suggest you look into anything mentioned if you are interested in less fucked up shoulders but proceed slowly because years of damage takes a lot time to undo.

Yes he does:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/shoulder-shocker

He also advises double volume of pulling to pushing, specifically rows as opposed to pull ups / pull downs which is one of the main recommendations I forgot to include that has done good things for me.

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(03-03-2019 01:35 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 09:12 PM)flanders Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:29 AM)Kieran Wrote:  For me Joe Defranco's recommendations have allowed me to keep working through several shoulder injuries over the years that had been ongoing. Those are:
- get rid of overhead pressing completely
- do one hundred band pull aparts per day (I use the mini band for these, but I also programme band pull aparts in my training sessions with harder resistance in the typical 3-4 x 8-12 format as they're the best rear delt work I've found)
- include isolation work such as lateral raises for shoulder work (I'd rather be overhead pressing, but my shoulders will start playing up after a short time if I do them
- Joe recommends fixing form on the flat bench, but for me I had to get rid of it entirely and replace it with incline barbell presses which I can do pretty much pain free

DeFranco doesn't advocate getting rid of overhead pressing at all, instead substituting OHP with shit like neutral grip presses and log presses, or light push presses. That's not very good advice on the face of it since it's sort of like telling a battered wife that her husband's rage is inevitable and she should consider not scorching dinner if she doesn't like getting hit.

That being said, if he doesn't include anything like german hangs he's not much of a strength coach, nor does he understand the role of mobility or even how there's no such thing as a row that can loosen a terminally tight pec or bicep, which is the true culprit to 99% of shoulder problems and something that approximately 100% of gym rats have.

Mobility drills from men's gymnastics are about thirty years ahead of even 'cutting edge' modern bodybuilding shit like anything I've read from DeFranco's interviews. I predict in the next ten years or so there's going to be about a dozen fads from men's gymnastics creeping into mainstream bodybuilding to the benefit of bodybuilding. Hopefully that twat is reading this since you can only crib from T-nation for so long. Claiming obvious bullshit like one in fifty athletes are genetically capable of overhead pressing is insult enough to anybody who can think critically (yes, he said this in interviews repeatedly, and actually gets paid money for coaching people) so he deserves a few of my snooty comments.

60s era bodybuilders were extremely mobile in the shoulders compared to anybody from the 90s on (an obvious tell is their reliance on behind the neck pressing variants and shoulder dislocations in between sets of bench pressing). I suggest you look into anything mentioned if you are interested in less fucked up shoulders but proceed slowly because years of damage takes a lot time to undo.

Yes he does:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/shoulder-shocker

He also advises double volume of pulling to pushing, specifically rows as opposed to pull ups / pull downs which is one of the main recommendations I forgot to include that has done good things for me.

Huh. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah his advice as it stands can do good things but if you want to pump the gas a little any shoulder prehab/rehab ought to have a mobility component (like what fortis's link illustrates nicely).

(03-02-2019 10:59 PM)Fortis Wrote:  https://www.intensemuscle.com/forum/main...f-the-time

I found this old gem from Dante Trudel about shoulder problems.

I'll post it here in case you don't want to click the link:

Quote:With a large towel or broomstick I want you to hold it with straight arms for the entire time of what i describe in the following movement--a large "rolled up like a rope" beach towel works good but honestly a longer broomstick (without the bristles) works best in my opinion.

Start out with it with a really wide grip (with straight arms) in front of you (on your quads) and with straight arms bring it up and overhead and then down and back to the middle of your back--STRAIGHT ARMS ALL THE WAY--this is going to be very difficult and hard the first couple times out and then will be "old hat" with time----and its going to be painful in a stretching pump kind of way---i want 50 reps each time you do this--one repetition is from in front of your face (all with straight arms) to up overhead and back, and then down all the way to the middle of your back and then back up overhead to in front of your face again (again all with straight arms)--the important part of the movement is the area overhead that is really tight--do all of this carefully/slowly---dont just whip it over and back---if your hand is slipping off the broomstick even with the widest grip, or you cant bring your arms over straight and the start bending on you, you have some serious shoulder inflexibility and need to work this hard and get up to speed (or you could just need a longer broomstick too)--again do all of these revolutions controlled and carefully--push into the stretch as you go along toward the 50 revolutions, your chest will be pushing outward and your shoulders rolling back--your shoulders are going to blow up with so much blood its going to be incredibly painfull pumpwise--

Do this once a day at nite as many times a week as you can---sometimes I have people do it every single day---but every time you do it try to move your grip inward (thats the key)----its going to be very hard to do but try your best to move your grip inward for the next 2-4 weeks and your range of motion with shoulders will increase dramatically and any impingement and the majority of other problems should be gone in 2 weeks--also try to move your grip in as you are doing the 50 revolutions--start off with a stretching but relatively easy 10 to warm up some, then try to move your grip in even by a centimeter if you can for the next 20 revolutions and then at 30 try to move the grip in another centimeter--really try to push what you can do stretchwise once your warmed up here--trust me this sounds easy but your going to be muttering "fuck you dante" after you get to your 25th revolution--Ive cured too many shoulder problems with this simple movement now its pretty ridiculous, and this and a menthol rub applied liberally daily and before sleep has cured alot of shoulder/bicepital tendonitis in trainees ---Heres a pic attached to this post so you can get an idea (thanks to a trainee of mine who cured his shoulders with this)--but remember the broomstick goes overhead and all the way back to the middle of the back (he just drew the start of the movement when you begin)

Sorry about the wall of text, but this is really how he wrote it.

Now this here is some excellent advice, thanks for sharing -

A good variant for people who want to make it more interesting is to add some weight.

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Thanks I'll have a look into adding in some mobility work.

For me getting rid of overhead pressing has been difficult and I've gone back to it a few times over the past several years, but as soon as the weights start getting heavy, like up to or near to bodyweight, I always start getting issues again. I think one of my issues with it come from the fact that it isn't nearly as stable a base to press from (which is also one of the benefits - allowing the scapular to move freely) and this can affect balance and barpath. Even with decades of benching and incline benching, I still occasionally veer off the correct barpath slightly, but on the overhead press if I lose the barpath slightly my shoulders get tweaked up.

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(03-03-2019 08:13 PM)flanders Wrote:  

(03-03-2019 01:35 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 09:12 PM)flanders Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:29 AM)Kieran Wrote:  For me Joe Defranco's recommendations have allowed me to keep working through several shoulder injuries over the years that had been ongoing. Those are:
- get rid of overhead pressing completely
- do one hundred band pull aparts per day (I use the mini band for these, but I also programme band pull aparts in my training sessions with harder resistance in the typical 3-4 x 8-12 format as they're the best rear delt work I've found)
- include isolation work such as lateral raises for shoulder work (I'd rather be overhead pressing, but my shoulders will start playing up after a short time if I do them
- Joe recommends fixing form on the flat bench, but for me I had to get rid of it entirely and replace it with incline barbell presses which I can do pretty much pain free

DeFranco doesn't advocate getting rid of overhead pressing at all, instead substituting OHP with shit like neutral grip presses and log presses, or light push presses. That's not very good advice on the face of it since it's sort of like telling a battered wife that her husband's rage is inevitable and she should consider not scorching dinner if she doesn't like getting hit.

That being said, if he doesn't include anything like german hangs he's not much of a strength coach, nor does he understand the role of mobility or even how there's no such thing as a row that can loosen a terminally tight pec or bicep, which is the true culprit to 99% of shoulder problems and something that approximately 100% of gym rats have.

Mobility drills from men's gymnastics are about thirty years ahead of even 'cutting edge' modern bodybuilding shit like anything I've read from DeFranco's interviews. I predict in the next ten years or so there's going to be about a dozen fads from men's gymnastics creeping into mainstream bodybuilding to the benefit of bodybuilding. Hopefully that twat is reading this since you can only crib from T-nation for so long. Claiming obvious bullshit like one in fifty athletes are genetically capable of overhead pressing is insult enough to anybody who can think critically (yes, he said this in interviews repeatedly, and actually gets paid money for coaching people) so he deserves a few of my snooty comments.

60s era bodybuilders were extremely mobile in the shoulders compared to anybody from the 90s on (an obvious tell is their reliance on behind the neck pressing variants and shoulder dislocations in between sets of bench pressing). I suggest you look into anything mentioned if you are interested in less fucked up shoulders but proceed slowly because years of damage takes a lot time to undo.

Yes he does:

https://www.t-nation.com/training/shoulder-shocker

He also advises double volume of pulling to pushing, specifically rows as opposed to pull ups / pull downs which is one of the main recommendations I forgot to include that has done good things for me.

Huh. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah his advice as it stands can do good things but if you want to pump the gas a little any shoulder prehab/rehab ought to have a mobility component (like what fortis's link illustrates nicely).

(03-02-2019 10:59 PM)Fortis Wrote:  https://www.intensemuscle.com/forum/main...f-the-time

I found this old gem from Dante Trudel about shoulder problems.

I'll post it here in case you don't want to click the link:

Quote:With a large towel or broomstick I want you to hold it with straight arms for the entire time of what i describe in the following movement--a large "rolled up like a rope" beach towel works good but honestly a longer broomstick (without the bristles) works best in my opinion.

Start out with it with a really wide grip (with straight arms) in front of you (on your quads) and with straight arms bring it up and overhead and then down and back to the middle of your back--STRAIGHT ARMS ALL THE WAY--this is going to be very difficult and hard the first couple times out and then will be "old hat" with time----and its going to be painful in a stretching pump kind of way---i want 50 reps each time you do this--one repetition is from in front of your face (all with straight arms) to up overhead and back, and then down all the way to the middle of your back and then back up overhead to in front of your face again (again all with straight arms)--the important part of the movement is the area overhead that is really tight--do all of this carefully/slowly---dont just whip it over and back---if your hand is slipping off the broomstick even with the widest grip, or you cant bring your arms over straight and the start bending on you, you have some serious shoulder inflexibility and need to work this hard and get up to speed (or you could just need a longer broomstick too)--again do all of these revolutions controlled and carefully--push into the stretch as you go along toward the 50 revolutions, your chest will be pushing outward and your shoulders rolling back--your shoulders are going to blow up with so much blood its going to be incredibly painfull pumpwise--

Do this once a day at nite as many times a week as you can---sometimes I have people do it every single day---but every time you do it try to move your grip inward (thats the key)----its going to be very hard to do but try your best to move your grip inward for the next 2-4 weeks and your range of motion with shoulders will increase dramatically and any impingement and the majority of other problems should be gone in 2 weeks--also try to move your grip in as you are doing the 50 revolutions--start off with a stretching but relatively easy 10 to warm up some, then try to move your grip in even by a centimeter if you can for the next 20 revolutions and then at 30 try to move the grip in another centimeter--really try to push what you can do stretchwise once your warmed up here--trust me this sounds easy but your going to be muttering "fuck you dante" after you get to your 25th revolution--Ive cured too many shoulder problems with this simple movement now its pretty ridiculous, and this and a menthol rub applied liberally daily and before sleep has cured alot of shoulder/bicepital tendonitis in trainees ---Heres a pic attached to this post so you can get an idea (thanks to a trainee of mine who cured his shoulders with this)--but remember the broomstick goes overhead and all the way back to the middle of the back (he just drew the start of the movement when you begin)

Sorry about the wall of text, but this is really how he wrote it.

Now this here is some excellent advice, thanks for sharing -

A video demonstrating this routine was posted somewhere in the Fitness thread a while back. It works really well:

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Start from slow pull-ups so that it will not disturb your muscle much.

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I'd highly recommend finding your nearest feldenkrais class and getting into that. It will help improve your mobility so much and change how you view movement. If you get on well with that, get some one on one sessions as they are a lot more powerful.

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Hey guys I messed up my left shoulder a few weeks ago and I’m a little concerned.

I’m 20 and have been lifting steadily for a little over a year.

I think it started from repeated overhead presses (Thursday the 2nd) and later clean and presses with my form being off and probably too much weight (Saturday the 4th). On Sunday the 5th I was at a rock climbing gym and and fell while bouldering and caught myself on a handhold and I think that caused it.

It wasn’t immediate pain and I did 2-3 routs after it happened but gradually a radiating tingling pain cascaded down my arm starting at the shoulder. I’m no stranger to pain but this was pretty intense. Probably an 8 or a 9 on a 1-10 scale. I had full range of movement and all my fingers worked but it hurt like hell. I could barley move it at all.

I drove home and immediately popped 4 Advil, after about an hour or so the pain subsided. I decided I had been going too hard and needed a break so I didn’t work out all of the next week minus some biking on the weekend.

On Monday (May 13th) I went to the gym and was doing incline bench on the smith machine. I noticed I was struggling more than usual and I started feeling that pain towards the end of my set. After I tried to do light incline DB and I still felt it. Freaked me out and dipped.

Did some research online, basically said any pain like that is not normal and I should stop.

Yesterday I tried doing some barbell curls and felt it faintly with 40lbs and I stoped right away.

I’d guess I have strained the muscle, or maybe the rotator cuff. It suggested taking off 3-6 weeks to let it heal. It would suck to not lift anything upper body for that much time but I could manage. I’m mostly concerned with what happens after that.

I’m not sure if it’s worth seeing a doctor for, maybe a sports doctor?

Any advice would be appreciated.

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You are singing my tune. I've torn my left rotator cuff twice. This second time, I've just worked around it.

For the gym, since I can't lift directly overhead, I use a barbell in the landmine config to do OHPs....you lift at an incline (like 50-60 degrees), so for me it doesnt aggravate my shoulder. Been doing that for about 9 months now, the shoulder work seems about equivalent, and no danger from pressing directly overhead. You might try it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-nmC2QdSSI

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