Post: #1

This will be the first part of a short exploratory series on sharing and discussing some deeper and higher-level concepts and perspectives involving game, women, love, and the red pill.

I’d like to start off with talking about newcomers to the game. Most of us here aren’t naturals, but rather “found the way.” Be it through stumbling across some manosphere blogs, attending some PUA boot camp, or even just finding this very forum. The darker truth is that most of us got to this place by being in the doldrums with women for all of our adolescent and young adult (or even later adult) years.

A lot of men get to this place during a bitter and fed up phase of their love life. They’ve been friendzoned by girls they’ve wanted to fuck, they’ve been cheated on by the woman they loved, they’ve been divorced, they’ve been sexless, thirsty, and/or straight up pathetic. They find this literature that is the perfect storm of right place/right time to motivate them to re-invent themselves.

This brings me to some allegedly-righteous criticisms I see about “swallowing the red pill.” We’ve all seen newbies take hard black-and-white rules of it. Things like:
“NEVER go out of your way for a girl”
“Do not pay for her drinks on dates”
“Don’t text any emoji’s”
“If she doesn’t fuck you by the 2nd or 3rd date then she’s wasting your time ghost her”
“Do not compliment her”
Etc.

A lot of dudes who have been in the game for a while started off this way, myself included. We will often try to advise someone new to the game that this hardline no-compromise-alpha shit is for the birds and you need to ease off and temper yourself, because we’ve been there and learned. While these suggestions are in good nature, I’d like to argue against it. I argue against it because then they won’t learn.

You can’t teach someone by having them skip a lot of steps. They need the hard fundamentals and practice them before they can build their own style and game that works for them. When it comes to dudes who came from being soft with women and getting walked on and taken advantage of, I really think it is important that the pendulum swings hard the other way before they are really ready to be where they need to be. I wouldn’t be where I was now if I didn’t go through the “bitter phase” and then the “hard rules use-girls-for-sex-only” phase.

The most important part about the beginner's phase is that one does evolve to grow out of it and not be stuck there.

Post: #2

The reason most guys (that come in completely blue pill so to speak) need that hard and fast rule advice is because if there's ANY wiggle room they will take it and end up so far away from the initial advice that it's maddening (to those giving advice) and does the guys a disservice.

You can't give them razor sharp and precision tools until they've hacked away with the basic tools at something and seen that it is starting to take some shape.

They need to have that realization that acting like an "asshole" and not giving women what they "think" women want starts to gain them attention/interest from women. Only when the reality sets in and they aren't a slight setback away from reverting to full blue pill ways can you start to add some nuance to their approach.

I'm seeing myself slipping back into bad habits after not being single for a while so it just makes me remember how critical it is to get them as far away from doormat blue pill status as possible. Also, a thing that's been getting lost is calibration. This is an example where calibration is very important. You can't give these guys advice with "exceptions" to the rule because they'll misinterpret those exceptions and take the out and an "L" nearly immediately.

Post: #3

"Do not pay for her drinks on dates." Torn on this one. This is gonna take alot of noobs outta the game quick if they take a girl to a bar, buy themselves a whiskey, and the girl is drinkless and "WTF", unless he knows how to work that situation.

Perhaps its better include, "don't take the girl to bar on a date unless you know how to get her to pay for her own drink".

Post: #4

I did it for years and I still got laid plenty.

Part of the induction into game is learning how to not be an ATM letting girls milk you for free booze. You make girls go dutch with you so you're not giving your resources to her. Chavalry-is-dead 101.

This is what I mean about newbies taking the absolutes. Playing asshole game and faking it till you make it is important.

If I was still new to all of this and went into a date with all the manosphere literature in my head, and at the bar the girl let me know one way or the other that she wants me to buy her drink for her then I'd be like "well son of bitch... they were right this girl's just trying sap my resources!"

Post: #5

I did that shit for at least a year or more. I wouldn't so much as pay for gas if the girl wanted to go out of the way. The bangs it may have cost me were probably a losing proposition anyway. Plenty of women paid their way and still DTF.

I think the real gem of knowledge that people learn from that is you can't negotiate attraction, like real physical attraction. Like most things in life throwing money at it won't help you a whole lot, it has seriously diminishing returns.

As for emojis, and compliments it's about frame. You can absolutelt charm your way into a womans pants. I have yet to find a man who can compliment his way into a womans pants, and if it happens I gurantee he would've felt better about it and it would have been easier just to push and pull. The way you start doind that is being the prize. Pull to show intent, push to show you don't care if it happens or not. Women that aren't complete egotistical narcissistic monsters don't want a man that is drooling over them. They want to be lead, they want their decision to choose you has been validated. And after that they want to know that you chose them, not out of desperation or thirst but because they actually have value, and they're soul fillingly validated by the last one. Then they start trying to keep their prize and doing all kinds of shit so you'll keep picking them.

Emojis are just feminine. They utilize tone a lot more than us. It shows a huge investment in being understood exactly how you mean it when you say it. That little mini-investment can be revolting. I've experienced it with over emotive women like "bitch I know what you meant there wasn't a need to throw 15 emojis in there". Or even worse "okay yeah cool you basically just told me you forgot about me, you're too busy, or whatever excuse then added a smiley. How dumb do you think i am"? They can also be a boon to your communication as hamster brakes because ambiguous statements especially in the beginning are your friend. You want to be ambiguous because it leaves her with ways to rationalize what you're saying. "We'll see" - no emoji or "alright" or "depends on if you're cool" whatever. Their head goes all hamstery and they start thinking about all the multi-faceted meaning those could have. And like magic, if the girl is into you she comes up with the best possible one. She games herself for you. That's the ideal shit.

One time this girl was being flaky with me or at least I thought she was. I lost my cool and was just like "yeah alright". Which where I come from is essentially a fuck you. Her next text "thanks for being understanding how about tomorrow". Game on.

I think those rules are good hard and fast rules for blue pilled newcomers. They helped me a lot.

Post: #6

Spot on Stalin.

When you're just getting started in the game, your mindset isn't where it needs to be. You're doing things with girls like buying drinks or typical beta orbiter BS with the expectation of something (sexual) in return. The biggest reason to follow the 'rules' and 'process' is to train your mindset, not necessarily the actions themselves.

Once you start internalizing 'game' and the red pill, and hopefully getting laid more, you'll understand what women find attractive, what gets you what you want (not just in sexual relationships), and begin to have a true acceptance of the way the world works.

By the time you've achieved a realistic view of women and the world, an abundance mentality, etc., and are truly outcome independent, then you can throw these rules out. Go buy as many bottles as you want, you know it won't get you laid.



re: drinks on dates - "What are you having? First round is on me." Case closed, if there's a next round she'll pick it up, you do your thing without being an ATM

Post: #7

Speaking of that , can you recover from being mr. Nice guy to asshole with the same girl ?
I mean you showed some beta trails at the beginning of the interactions then you corrected in the upcoming days.

Post: #8

^possible? Sure, anything is possible.

Likely? Not really.

Lots of variables involved though. Passage of time can clear up a lot of wrongs. Let's get to the basis of the question though:

What you are essentially asking is can you change a female's perspective of you from being a "nice guy" who she doesn't want to fuck, to being a bad boy alpha asshole who she does want to fuck.

It's tough to turn a girl around once she has an impression of you. Like I said earlier, depends on varying levels. If you have barely hung out with the girl then she still doesn't really know you so you can fudge around a bit, but if you've already gone on dates and been turned down for action because of betatude then you are in quite the uphill climb. Alternatively if this was some highschool hottie you always wanted to smash but never did because you were a chump, then being older and having a lot of.time pass without contact can also work in your favor potentially. Effort might be better focused on finding a new girl and trying out different angles and game tactics though.

Post: #9

Thanks , I won’t elaborate as I don’t the thread go in different direction. But thanks again

Post: #10

Newbies in game have it really bad cause not only they are usually hurt and destroyed emotionally by some clever bitch(es) who took advantage of them but also they are rather weak at handling women in general and even themselves as well. Then on top of that there are plenty hucksters and pseudo gurus who sell them false dreams and teach lame wrong things that is meant to turn them into fake alphas. It's brutal. I've seen sone of my friends getting into pua stuff and it was sad to watch them running cube on some chicks.

Luckily I avoided that shit cause I'm rather critical and analytical person so I always need to know WHY some thing supossed to work or not. Once I know the mechanics I can choose how to use, if at all.

Post: #11

(04-25-2018 07:36 PM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  Speaking of that , can you recover from being mr. Nice guy to asshole with the same girl ?
I mean you showed some beta trails at the beginning of the interactions then you corrected in the upcoming days.

Most effective (sometimes only) way to turn around a girl that friend-zoned you is to fuck a hotter girl. Bonus if its one of her friends

Post: #12

(04-26-2018 10:58 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 07:36 PM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  Speaking of that , can you recover from being mr. Nice guy to asshole with the same girl ?
I mean you showed some beta trails at the beginning of the interactions then you corrected in the upcoming days.

Most effective (sometimes only) way to turn around a girl that friend-zoned you is to fuck a hotter girl. Bonus if its one of her friends

Spot on. But to be honest I am not deep in the friend zone . I have two questions for you PapayaTapper :
1- I do fuck hotter girl than her , but how let her know about it? We didn't hang out , we are not in social circle . All the conventional ways are blocked. I am thinking of letting a female friend of mine doing it for me. She can go and say something like this "Oh you know what Mizo has been dating this hot chick,...etc."

2- What's the accurate definition of friend zone ? Female friends help your status and pre-selection.