Post: #1

I know, very subjective issue, due to the many variables.

However, I'm still interested in some numbers, as I got very different feedback from men/women I've met in my life.

No matter whether you met them online or offline, how many times did a 1st date convert into a 2nd date?

I'm very curious.. every time a girl says "sorry, not interested in you" after a date, it hurts quite a lot, at least for a short moment . It's very annoying as you will never ever find out 'why' she's not interested (you always hear "it's just my intuition" blabla).

Looking forward to the results!

Post: #2

(05-07-2018 05:34 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I know, very subjective issue, due to the many variables.

However, I'm still interested in some numbers, as I got very different feedback from men/women I've met in my life.

No matter whether you met them online or offline, how many times did a 1st date convert into a 2nd date?

I'm very curious.. every time a girl says "sorry, not interested in you" after a date, it hurts quite a lot, at least for a short moment . It's very annoying as you will never ever find out 'why' she's not interested (you always hear "it's just my intuition" blabla).

Looking forward to the results!

The poll is improperly formulated.

What about one night stands? You should specify that this would be only dates where you didn't fuck the girl (if that's what you're getting at).

Post: #3

I look better in person than in picture, I take girls to very nice places, and I’m good at conversation, so it’s very rare that I don’t get a second date (assuming I want one). The only exception is when I tell that I’m married and it’s a no-no for her.

I’m probably a bit too nice though; my problem is not getting a second date, but the risk of getting friendzoned.

Post: #4

I've always been good at going to date 2. At one point in my life I couldn't figure out why things fizzled after 2 dates so frequently. Then I started aggressively going for sex, with lots of touching and kissing. From that point on my success rates jumped. I mean looking back I actually had a hot girl invite me over to her place to listen to music and I politely declined. I tried for a 3rd date and got nothing. Now, I realize how stupid I was. Sometimes I wish I could relive my life with the wisdom I have today.

Anyway... the other thing that helps is that most of the women I dated were 4's and 5's. That can help with success rates.

Post: #5

The whole dating thing is a false construct. If she perceives you as high value, she'll sleep with you on the first date just to get a shot at keeping you. If she perceives you as low value, she'll hold out as long as possible because she wants something in return.

As to the answer to the poll, I aggressively go for the close on the first date (hey so should you) so therefore I either get a 1st date bang or no bang. 2nd date bangs are few and far between.

Also;

(05-07-2018 05:34 PM)wonderman Wrote:  a girl says "sorry, not interested in you" after a date

If a girl ever says that, you text her the letter "K" delete her number and next her.

The letter "K" is important because it's the least effort way of dismissal. You hit one letter then hit send

Post: #6

(05-08-2018 01:32 AM)corsega Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 05:34 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I know, very subjective issue, due to the many variables.

However, I'm still interested in some numbers, as I got very different feedback from men/women I've met in my life.

No matter whether you met them online or offline, how many times did a 1st date convert into a 2nd date?

I'm very curious.. every time a girl says "sorry, not interested in you" after a date, it hurts quite a lot, at least for a short moment . It's very annoying as you will never ever find out 'why' she's not interested (you always hear "it's just my intuition" blabla).

Looking forward to the results!

The poll is improperly formulated.

What about one night stands? You should specify that this would be only dates where you didn't fuck the girl (if that's what you're getting at).

I know. But it doesn't happen often anymore that girls want to fuck me on the first date (it happened more often in my 20s), so I thought this point is negligible.

Post: #7

Quote:If a girl ever says that..

Hehe.. most girls say that, I'd say 3 out of 4 girls clearly say they are not interested in a 2nd date with me. Maybe the conversion rate is even worse.

Post: #8

Conversion rate in The West: 0%
Conversion rate outside The West: 100%

Post: #9

(05-08-2018 03:34 AM)wonderman Wrote:  

Quote:If a girl ever says that..

Hehe.. most girls say that, I'd say 3 out of 4 girls clearly say they are not interested in a 2nd date with me. Maybe the conversion rate is even worse.

If a girl says that, phrasing it in that exact same (or very similar) way, it implies that you've been trying to impress her, but she saw through it and it didn't work. I mean if there was a first half to that sentence it would read "I know you're interested in me but, sorry, not interested in you"

Instead try to frame the situation so that she tries to pick you up and not the other way around. In my experience, she either buys it and you get laid or she doesn't buy it and never texts you again.

The ideal first date is the one that doesn't feel like a date at all. Think about this: how would you act if you weren't concerned about getting in her pants at all? How would you present yourself if she was a high school friend, or some ugly girl that you're not interested in, or if she's already been your wife for decades?

Post: #10

(05-08-2018 01:57 AM)Montrose Wrote:  I look better in person than in picture, I take girls to very nice places, and I’m good at conversation, so it’s very rare that I don’t get a second date (assuming I want one). The only exception is when I tell that I’m married and it’s a no-no for her.

I’m probably a bit too nice though; my problem is not getting a second date, but the risk of getting friendzoned.

Wow. I would pay money to see you having dates with women. Would be very interested in seeing how you communicate. "It's very rare that I don't get a second date" is the complete opposite of my life situation ("it's rare to get a second date").

Ok, there is one thing where I was a bit too honest maybe. Maybe 50% of all women always ask whether I had a long term relationship in my past (I am 36). I always wanted to be honest and said no, not even a short term relationship (because it's true, I have always been single, my whole life, never had more than having sex 2-3x with the same girl).

I recently started coming up with lies. I.e., saying that I had a relationship for a few years in my 20s. However, I haven't used this strategy long enough to come to a conclusion. I guess it's helpful but it's not the game changer I was hoping for. There must be something else. There must be a reason you always have 2nd dates and I mostly don't have 2nd dates.

Can I ask you something? Do you initiate the 2nd date or is it mostly the girl?

Looks shouldn't be my problem. I get lots of tinder matches when searching in my age range (not lots of girls available when I search for younger girls), on photofeeler I got 28 very attractive out of 44 (100% attractiveness rating), most girls say I am attractive. One woman who works as a communication coach told me I am one of the best communicator she ever met in her life. A dating coach once told me I am super good in approaching girls on the street (although I don't think so, still a beginner even though I approached thousands of girls on the street over the last 20y). However, when having a date, most girls are not into a 2nd date. There must be a problem somewhere. I guess most girls feel that I'm not really interested in them (indeed I am not, I never had any interest in a woman), and that makes me unattractive.

Post: #11

Quote:Instead try to frame the situation so that she tries to pick you up and not the other way around.

I understand but I can't do that. I don't like to focus on a certain frame or even changing that frame. I am interested in some core questions life comes up with, and maybe my date can help me answer those core questions. While having a conversation, I am simply not interested in thinking about a "frame". And I don't want her to chase me, as I clearly know from the beginning that I am not interested in something serious. That could hurt her even more if I "try to" reposition the frame.

Post: #12

(05-08-2018 03:52 AM)wonderman Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 01:57 AM)Montrose Wrote:  I look better in person than in picture, I take girls to very nice places, and I’m good at conversation, so it’s very rare that I don’t get a second date (assuming I want one). The only exception is when I tell that I’m married and it’s a no-no for her.

I’m probably a bit too nice though; my problem is not getting a second date, but the risk of getting friendzoned.

Wow. I would pay money to see you having dates with women. Would be very interested in seeing how you communicate. "It's very rare that I don't get a second date" is the complete opposite of my life situation ("it's rare to get a second date").

Ok, there is one thing where I was a bit too honest maybe. Maybe 50% of all women always ask whether I had a long term relationship in my past (I am 36). I always wanted to be honest and said no, not even a short term relationship (because it's true, I have always been single, my whole life, never had more than having sex 2-3x with the same girl).

I recently started coming up with lies. I.e., saying that I had a relationship for a few years in my 20s. However, I haven't used this strategy long enough to come to a conclusion. I guess it's helpful but it's not the game changer I was hoping for. There must be something else. There must be a reason you always have 2nd dates and I mostly don't have 2nd dates.

Can I ask you something? Do you initiate the 2nd date or is it mostly the girl?

Looks shouldn't be my problem. I get lots of tinder matches when searching in my age range (not lots of girls available when I search for younger girls), on photofeeler I got 28 very attractive out of 44 (100% attractiveness rating), most girls say I am attractive. One woman who works as a communication coach told me I am one of the best communicator she ever met in her life. A dating coach once told me I am super good in approaching girls on the street (although I don't think so, still a beginner even though I approached thousands of girls on the street over the last 20y). However, when having a date, most girls are not into a 2nd date. There must be a problem somewhere. I guess most girls feel that I'm not really interested in them (indeed I am not, I never had any interest in a woman), and that makes me unattractive.

You can record your dates and PM me if you want (I speak German and French). It's the only true way to know.

Or if you don't want to do that, at least give us more details about how you meet them, where you take them, what your vibe is, and what you're doing on dates.

I thought I was running good date game when I was starting out, but I wasn't. The only thing that helped me improve was reading a ton about game, recording my dates, and sending them to advanced guys for analysis.

In any case, 100% attractiveness rating on Photofeeler is an incredible result. So is 200 matches in a week in Vienna. For comparison, I get 20 matches a week in San Francisco. So it's gotta be your date game that's holding you back.

Post: #13

I mostly initiate the 2nd date. It’s very rare for the girl to ask for a second date spontaneously.

Contrary to you I am genuinely interested in women and like to talk to them. I ask lots of questions and I try to understand the problems they face. This obviously is helpful to create a connection (but again, the downside is that you can get friendzoned, but I don’t mind because female friends can be useful)

Post: #14

Date 1: We figure out if there is attraction. If she texts me back at the end of the night, it's usually on. I don't ever text her after the date. If she's into you, she'll send you something along the lines of "I had a great time tonight!" I always line these dates up near her house, because I don't want to be seen in my neighborhood if she's ugly or fat. If I'm not into it, I'll just have a drink and bolt.

Date 2: Makeout, usually in the Uber. I tend to take them somewhere nice and fancy on the second date. Lots of touching. "dress hot tonight. black dress and boots." Do I have to do this? No, I just like going to fancy places, and most of these girls are poor and have never been anywhere nice. It's fun for me. Feel free to skip this part. This is usually where I let them know about all of my crazy conservative shit, Christian beliefs, etc. I'll even open the meal with a prayer. I don't care if it turns them off. If it does, I've saved time. And ate steak.

Date 3: Local bar near my house. At this point, it's a done deal. I know the bartenders, I know the servers, I know the owner, and I know the chef (he's my brother). I walk in there like a local celebrity -- I don't even have to ask for a drink, they know exactly what to make me. From there, we do some shots and have a few beverages. Then it's easy. "Let's get out of here." "Let's go watch the Princess Bride." "Ever watch Twilight?" Keeps LMR to a minimal, because now she's very comfortable. I've been calling her "babe" "honey" "shugs" and holding her hand all night. My bedroom is clean, gigantic, and the bed is always made. There is a giant beanbag chair for two in front of the TV. My house is generally a cool spot, complete with Sonos speakers in every room, and I've spent years getting it to where I want it. Everything is done in mid-century modern. Think Don Draper's pad.

I think you can get most girls home after two dates, but I tend to go with three. I'm big into building comfort -- by the time we've banged they're talking to me about their career issues, family issues, all kinds of stuff. Granted, you don't want to be their "bestie", but if they're comfortable with you, you can pull some crazy sex shit without any fear of ramification. I rarely have problems with my exes. They usually get sucked into the Hank Moody life, love it, realize I'm damaged, break up with me, and then come back in some way shape or form a few months later. I have two exes that put me on no contact (I never no contact anyone), and one has sort of backed off that.

Any more than three dates and you're wasting time. Three is actually a lot.

That said, all the other guys on this forum can just swipe right on Tinder and the girls will pay for an Uber to go to their house and bang, though. Just swipe right on Tinder and then demand they come over. It works every time. I read that on the internet.

Post: #15

Guys with Game usually have high conversion rates of 40-60%. I only hear stories of very good-looking successful men who have conversion rates of 5-10% which is ridiculous. A girl that agrees to go on a date is already interested in you somewhat - creating sexual tension after that is usually not a big problem.

Post: #16

Quote:Contrary to you I am genuinely interested in women and like to talk to them. I ask lots of questions and I try to understand the problems they face.

This indeed is a very big thing. I am actually interested too but only in psychological topics. I simply don't care what job they have and where they have been etc. I'm more into deeper philosophical discussions. Guess that is too much for most. They always tell me "you are too much in your head" etc.

One other thing I notice is that I almost never find a woman funny. So I fake laughing a bit (I don't like a conversation without laughing), and they probably notice that it's fake and that I don't really share their mindset. Guess that's a huge issue.

Sometimes I meet girls I really have interesting conversations with. However, true humor is a very rare thing I experience when dating a woman. Maybe that's the core issue. My humor is simply too far away from the standard humor most women have. Hm..

Post: #17

Quote:You can record your dates and PM me if you want (I speak German and French). It's the only true way to know.

thanks, I really appreciate! however, too much effort.. but thanks!

Quote:I thought I was running good date game when I was starting out, but I wasn't. The only thing that helped me improve was reading a ton about game, recording my dates, and sending them to advanced guys for analysis.

interesting to hear.. didn't think there was a person who sends recorded audio material to guys for analysis.. wow.. you indeed put some energy into this..

Quote:In any case, 100% attractiveness rating on Photofeeler is an incredible result. So is 200 matches in a week in Vienna. For comparison, I get 20 matches a week in San Francisco. So it's gotta be your date game that's holding you back.

yes but the girls who match me on tinder are not super hotties.. they are totally average.. 4-6... I guess I never had something with an 8 in my life just had too many prostitutes (200? 300?) but ok, at least they were 7-10s.. (can recommend the fkk clubs in germany btw)..

Post: #18

Quote:Or if you don't want to do that, at least give us more details about how you meet them, where you take them, what your vibe is, and what you're doing on dates.

standard way of meeting them (online as offline).. standard dating locations (bars or going for a walk, whatever).. like I said earlier in one of my posts, a big problem was that I always said that I've been single for my whole life and that I only had ons.. they didn't really show their disinterest but it's clear that being honest in this regard wasn't a big help.. and then, lots of girls asked me whether I am always so "testosteron driven"? If I don't know whether a girl is interested or not after 2 hours, I sometimes try to touch/kiss her because I don't want to spend 4h with a girl for nothing. So I guess they sometimes think I only want sex. On the other hand, there were so many disinterested girls where I didn't escalate at all.

No idea.. I wish I could see a guy in real life with a conversion rate of 50% or more after the 1st date. It would be a god to me (as long as the women are at least averaging attractive .

Post: #19

Girls are not funny, I think we all agree. But they have a certain way of looking at things which is endearing.
Are you Asperger maybe?

And 4 hours is way too long for a first date. After 1 hour I pay for the drinks and leave. If chemistry is good I kiss close (but I don’t think kiss closing is a particularly good move in general).

Post: #20

(05-08-2018 05:00 PM)wonderman Wrote:  

Quote:You can record your dates and PM me if you want (I speak German and French). It's the only true way to know.

thanks, I really appreciate! however, too much effort.. but thanks!

I'm going to take that as a sign of "I don't want to get better", then.

Guess what? Getting laid takes fucking work.

I've helped multiple guys in this forum out over PM, especially at online game. Every time, their profiles suck, their date game sucks, they're doing a ton wrong. And posting a thread about it in a public forum and giving generic details has not helped them at all.

Post: #21

(05-08-2018 08:43 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Date 1: We figure out if there is attraction. If she texts me back at the end of the night, it's usually on. I don't ever text her after the date. If she's into you, she'll send you something along the lines of "I had a great time tonight!" I always line these dates up near her house, because I don't want to be seen in my neighborhood if she's ugly or fat. If I'm not into it, I'll just have a drink and bolt.

Date 2: Makeout, usually in the Uber. I tend to take them somewhere nice and fancy on the second date. Lots of touching. "dress hot tonight. black dress and boots." Do I have to do this? No, I just like going to fancy places, and most of these girls are poor and have never been anywhere nice. It's fun for me. Feel free to skip this part. This is usually where I let them know about all of my crazy conservative shit, Christian beliefs, etc. I'll even open the meal with a prayer. I don't care if it turns them off. If it does, I've saved time. And ate steak.

Date 3: Local bar near my house. At this point, it's a done deal. I know the bartenders, I know the servers, I know the owner, and I know the chef (he's my brother). I walk in there like a local celebrity -- I don't even have to ask for a drink, they know exactly what to make me. From there, we do some shots and have a few beverages. Then it's easy. "Let's get out of here." "Let's go watch the Princess Bride." "Ever watch Twilight?" Keeps LMR to a minimal, because now she's very comfortable. I've been calling her "babe" "honey" "shugs" and holding her hand all night. My bedroom is clean, gigantic, and the bed is always made. There is a giant beanbag chair for two in front of the TV. My house is generally a cool spot, complete with Sonos speakers in every room, and I've spent years getting it to where I want it. Everything is done in mid-century modern. Think Don Draper's pad.

I think you can get most girls home after two dates, but I tend to go with three. I'm big into building comfort -- by the time we've banged they're talking to me about their career issues, family issues, all kinds of stuff. Granted, you don't want to be their "bestie", but if they're comfortable with you, you can pull some crazy sex shit without any fear of ramification. I rarely have problems with my exes. They usually get sucked into the Hank Moody life, love it, realize I'm damaged, break up with me, and then come back in some way shape or form a few months later. I have two exes that put me on no contact (I never no contact anyone), and one has sort of backed off that.

Any more than three dates and you're wasting time. Three is actually a lot.

That said, all the other guys on this forum can just swipe right on Tinder and the girls will pay for an Uber to go to their house and bang, though. Just swipe right on Tinder and then demand they come over. It works every time. I read that on the internet.

3 dates used to be my standard, but I don't remember the last girl who took more than 2.

I'm not sure if this fits the thread, but I've noticed that I've been getting more D1 lays, but also a lower D2 conversion rate from those lays. Not sure what to make of that. Lays used to convert to a D2 at nearly 100%.

Post: #22

(05-09-2018 11:47 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:43 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Date 1: We figure out if there is attraction. If she texts me back at the end of the night, it's usually on. I don't ever text her after the date. If she's into you, she'll send you something along the lines of "I had a great time tonight!" I always line these dates up near her house, because I don't want to be seen in my neighborhood if she's ugly or fat. If I'm not into it, I'll just have a drink and bolt.

Date 2: Makeout, usually in the Uber. I tend to take them somewhere nice and fancy on the second date. Lots of touching. "dress hot tonight. black dress and boots." Do I have to do this? No, I just like going to fancy places, and most of these girls are poor and have never been anywhere nice. It's fun for me. Feel free to skip this part. This is usually where I let them know about all of my crazy conservative shit, Christian beliefs, etc. I'll even open the meal with a prayer. I don't care if it turns them off. If it does, I've saved time. And ate steak.

Date 3: Local bar near my house. At this point, it's a done deal. I know the bartenders, I know the servers, I know the owner, and I know the chef (he's my brother). I walk in there like a local celebrity -- I don't even have to ask for a drink, they know exactly what to make me. From there, we do some shots and have a few beverages. Then it's easy. "Let's get out of here." "Let's go watch the Princess Bride." "Ever watch Twilight?" Keeps LMR to a minimal, because now she's very comfortable. I've been calling her "babe" "honey" "shugs" and holding her hand all night. My bedroom is clean, gigantic, and the bed is always made. There is a giant beanbag chair for two in front of the TV. My house is generally a cool spot, complete with Sonos speakers in every room, and I've spent years getting it to where I want it. Everything is done in mid-century modern. Think Don Draper's pad.

I think you can get most girls home after two dates, but I tend to go with three. I'm big into building comfort -- by the time we've banged they're talking to me about their career issues, family issues, all kinds of stuff. Granted, you don't want to be their "bestie", but if they're comfortable with you, you can pull some crazy sex shit without any fear of ramification. I rarely have problems with my exes. They usually get sucked into the Hank Moody life, love it, realize I'm damaged, break up with me, and then come back in some way shape or form a few months later. I have two exes that put me on no contact (I never no contact anyone), and one has sort of backed off that.

Any more than three dates and you're wasting time. Three is actually a lot.

That said, all the other guys on this forum can just swipe right on Tinder and the girls will pay for an Uber to go to their house and bang, though. Just swipe right on Tinder and then demand they come over. It works every time. I read that on the internet.

3 dates used to be my standard, but I don't remember the last girl who took more than 2.

I'm not sure if this fits the thread, but I've noticed that I've been getting more D1 lays, but also a lower D2 conversion rate from those lays. Not sure what to make of that. Lays used to convert to a D2 at nearly 100%.

I'm big into comfort game, and long game.

The girls I bang tend to stick around for a long time. They consider me a good friend, and a confidant. Even when they get a boyfriend, I still get text messages and requests to hang out.

When they break up, I'm usually the first guy they call. ("Hank, my boyfriend broke up with me. I'm so bummed. Steak and wine day? Can we just chill?" Steak and wine it it shall be.) There's no pressure to bang. I usually just want to hear what happened.

From there, I spit scripture and buy lunch.

There are few things that can't be fixed by steak, wine, and biblical insight.

I just send a buddy some flan, birthday cake, and fruit after an ugly breakup.

Why?

Because.

Post: #23

(05-08-2018 10:31 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Guys with Game usually have high conversion rates of 40-60%. I only hear stories of very good-looking successful men who have conversion rates of 5-10% which is ridiculous. A girl that agrees to go on a date is already interested in you somewhat - creating sexual tension after that is usually not a big problem.

Reality is much more complex. So complex that it actually didn't make a lot sense to come up with my poll.

There is this huge, huge problem when we compare numbers:

The problem is that we simply are NOT focused on only getting sex. I am dating girls for the last 20 years. I have changed a lot (and not at all at the same time) in these last 20 years. When dating girls, I have multiple goals. Yes, an important one is sex, but there are lots of other goals too. And these other goals sometimes are not really helpful in getting sex.

So coming up with numbers doesn't really make sense (sorry that I came up with this poll). I mean, if I wanted to be able to present the best numbers, I could only approach girls that look friendly to me and in my age-range or a bit older (but in reality, I feel attracted to girls I know I have a hard time with, girls who are half my age.. I even dislike warm approaches cause I want to get the feeling that I achieved something because I, I did something special). However, in reality, to be able to enjoy sex, I always need some new stimuli, and over time, after years of dating, it gets harder and harder. So hard, that for the last few years, I sometimes have a hard time to become a boner, even if I can bring them to orgasms. It's just not enough hot for me. I need hot girls I just don't get in real life.

Whatever... thank you for having replied to my thread.. I actually registered here to get some suggestions regarding my august "where to go" thread, but didn't get any feedback, unfortunately. Guess that was it for me. Will visit Poland by the way. Just because it is a bit cheaper than Sweden and the girls look good there too.

Wish you all the best. And, most importantly, enjoy your time here on this planet, as long as you can use that grey something between your ears (we should be thankful we got something so powerful for free).

Enjoy..

Post: #24

(05-07-2018 05:34 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I'm very curious.. every time a girl says "sorry, not interested in you" after a date, it hurts quite a lot, at least for a short moment. It's very annoying as you will never ever find out 'why' she's not interested (you always hear "it's just my intuition" blabla).

If you don't go for the bang right away, you're not the fun guy she need in her life, If it hurts you did not date enough and if someone else rejection still annoy you the Game is probably not for you.
As far as I can remember the women who stayed around the most where the ones I banged first date, each time I invested time and money to make me look like a good man it always has been a disaster.

Mandatory read : 2-reasons-why-you-should-always-try-to-sleep-with-a-girl-on-the-first-date

Post: #25

Since learning game- the prospects that actually went anywhere I banged on date 1 or 2 (ONS, mini-relationship/plate, etc.). The rest either flaked, ghosted or refused to sleep with me until they could lock me into a relationship. The longest I tolerate a girl holding off is 2 or 3 dates. If it doesn't happen by that point, she's clearly playing games.

I primarily deal with online prospects. While I get a lot of matches and numbers, it can be rough landing a second date. This is why I always book logistically favorable first meets and go for the bang asap (either straight to my place- if that doesn't work, a bar or location a block away from my place).
Unless you strike while the iron is hot or the girl is really feeling you and/or looking for some fun- I feel most of these women are serial daters who enjoy the ego boost of a first date but don't want to move beyond, where expectations are raised. i also probably give off the player vibe as I always try to close on the first date.

While most don't, if they text you after the first date (bang or no bang) that's a great sign she's invested in seeing you again.
After the first bang I always tell girls to text me confirming they got home (to soothe the hamster and gauge their interest).
If they don't comply: that typically means you'll never get a repeat.