Post: #1

So we tell a lot of younger guys to do things like cold approach and work on their game.

I want to ask about another approach to the game and not trying to offer a cop out or anything.

What if instead of spending hours on cold approaching, going out on the weekends and putting together the perfect dating profile a guy took another approach?

Say this guy spent time in getting into the best shape of his life so he looks good and working on making money/building a promising career. The guy didn't really put as much effort into cold approaching outside of every now and then but instead just put the effort into making himself an appealing man.

What would be the consequences or benefits of this sort of approach?

Post: #2

It is a cop out. Don’t act like you don’t have time in the day to better yourself in every major way.

I’ve heard this kind of thing before and it’s always from the guy that never wants to get over his fear of game. If you think you have to make that kind of choice then I hope alarm bells ring.

“How about instead of practicing game I just become desirable?”

That’s like saying instead of “hey instead of sparring how about I just become a good fighter?”

Game is necessary it’s the hardest thing to learn it requires the highest degree of practice it’s the most difficult thing to structure into your life and if you think you’re bettering yourself by ignoring game then don’t be surprised how little your life has changed a year from now.

Post: #3

Sounds like Game 2.0.

No more feather boas, magic tricks, fake earrings, and approach algorithms. Just be the most interesting guy in the room.

You left out reading and understanding the classics, being up-to-date on current affairs, being able to discuss topics intelligently without being offensive or inflammatory--instead use humor, find a group you can fit in, surround yourself with people you want to be like, and be diverse. Don't be a one-trick pony.

But, you still have to work on your Game. There is no way around it if you want to be successful.

Post: #4

As a person who's trying to get a business started, I PROMISE YOU, you HAVE to learn game. Cold approaches make you more confident in your own skin, it makes you read body language better, it helps you focus on persuasion. I once heard the saying "If you can convince a girl who's way out your league to fall in love with you, then you can sell any product".

Sad to say i'm suffering the same problem as you, i don't want to go out and cold approach. Im scared out my mind of rejection to this day. But reading, learning different strategies, hearing the stories of others helped me realize how important charisma is.

Not having game and being rich turns you into a simp, a sugar daddy. Girls are pretty much made to sniff out weakness in a man, this man can be 6'4, a body like David Gandy and a billionaire. BUT if that guy doesn't have confidence and game, that woman will use him up until he doesn't have a dime to his name.

Game/charisma/persuasion is top 5 if not number 1 or 2 of the most important things a man needs in his life.

Post: #5

Your topic misses the point OP, but I can understand how when you're a beginner to this stuff game and life seem entirely separate.

Game and life my friend, are one in the same. To better yourself at life involves learning game, and to learn game betters your life. Keep in mind here, the game I'm referring to here isn't the canned sort, lines and openers, but the underlying fundamentals. The basics of game are confidence, outcome independence, and social calibration. You do those three well, you'll not only do well with women, but in business, in life, and in negotiations, which make or break your women, your business and your life.

To answer your original question: if the guy in your example focused on being a truly well rounded man, he would no doubt find himself with an abundance of female company. You do not need to be "skilled" in cold approach to live a life of abundance. However, unless you achieve tier 1 success (movie star, athlete, high level model, etc), a successful man who does not practice a frequent approach mechanism of some kind will have a more difficult time filling his ledger with women, considering few women will openly throw themselves at you without prompting. More likely than not, this successful man would identify the weakness in the women area of his life, and then set out to push more women into the pipeline.

Post: #6

My perspective on this is one can't work without the other.

You can have the DHV of a Prince Harry and getting a used old hag divorcee as your partner.

To me your life (and success with women) is like a chair. You can have a really good background (career, looks, status) but clueless reverting into your beta behaviors and habits around hot women. You will have 1 long leg and 1 short leg = not very stable is it.

Compared to you have a little bit of both, you have a good career, good life and a good background in general AND you don't trip yourself over around hot women. You will have 2 equally firm legs to stand on. Thus more stable and consistent.

If you look up youtube there's a Chinese dating show where this perfect DHV, rich, young guy gets rejected by this pretty girl. Because he is just super beta, lets her toy around with him and little brotherly.

Post: #7

It isn't necessary to cold approach or do specifically night or day game. But, yes, you have to "work on your game" in that you have to spend a significant amount of time with women. And, they have to be women you want to sleep with. You need to teach yourself how to accomplish that without the bolstering of money, a six-pack, etc. It is, functionally, about Red Pilling yourself in an empiricist way. It is all well and good to arrive in an RP mindset through study of the manosphere or male role models (the rationalist approach). But, you need to see this stuff in real life (the empiricist approach).

Game, proper, isn't the only way to accomplish this. You could do something like become a therapist who deals with younger female clients, or a marriage counselor, or a divorce lawyer. The stuff you will see doing that will have the same effect.

But for most men who care to go down this path (and that is actually not most men), the most direct way to an understanding of the true nature of women is gaming.

I agree with the posters above. If a man just makes himself a really "attractive" guy, without the hard work of developing (at least) a more nuanced view of women's means and motives, he is setting himself up for a life of pain.

Post: #8

Is it possible for a man to spend most of his time bettering his life and not spending much on game and yet meet many women?

The answer is NO. Let me explain in more detail. I am one of these guys. I spent most of my 20s/30s pursuing higher education, industry certifications, slaving at work, and networking. During my free time I built up my bankroll and invested in real estate. Furthermore I pursued various hobbies of mine which consumed time and money but did not directly contribute to game. I traveled to over 70 countries by the age of 38 yet not a single place in the west could I "impress" girls with just my accomplishments. My game was always weak and still is, and unless I travel to a WGF (white God Factor) country I get almost no success.

At the age of 39 i can retire comfortably and not worry about my finances. If i needed to I could take care of a woman and a child. However, in the west women have been "desensitized" to "succcessful guys". For every 6+ girl in USA there are at least 2 engineer/lawyer/IT/doctor guys who are willing to do everything in their power to sleep with her and date. The demographics are definitely not in our favor. Almost all the US and Canadian cities have an abundance of males vs females in the 18-35 age range. Worldwide the ratio get's even worse with a surplus of 100's of millions more males vs females in this age range, especially in Asia (India, China, Korea). Game is a must everythere, unless you are digging for "bottom of the barrel" girls.

I remember traveling to Russia last year, and even there renting a top of the line car and "wining/dining" locals brought very little success. To conclude I believe more than anything that game is critical in the west and money/success in life does not bring as much value now as it may have 20 years ago.

Post: #9

(05-20-2018 11:59 AM)Tex Wrote:  It is a cop out. Don’t act like you don’t have time in the day to better yourself in every major way.

I’ve heard this kind of thing before and it’s always from the guy that never wants to get over his fear of game. If you think you have to make that kind of choice then I hope alarm bells ring.

“How about instead of practicing game I just become desirable?”

That’s like saying instead of “hey instead of sparring how about I just become a good fighter?”

Game is necessary it’s the hardest thing to learn it requires the highest degree of practice it’s the most difficult thing to structure into your life and if you think you’re bettering yourself by ignoring game then don’t be surprised how little your life has changed a year from now.

If you're bettering yourself with the ulterior motive to get women, then I'd agree it's a stupid strategy and a cop out. But if you're bettering yourself because it's important to you to fix your life and you find it meaningful, then that's a totally different situation.

Women sap a lot of your time and energy. And I'm not even talking about cold approaching or dealing with rejection, but all the shit you have to do to keep them around once you get them, that's the part I hardly have the energy and time for.

That said, there's no reason not to be always sharpening your game, even if you have no intention of actually getting laid or anything. Since women are literally everywhere, there's no excuse not do cold approaches whenever you're going about your day to day business.

Post: #10

It's not like they can't work on it latter in life. It will just mean they have better fundamentals.

Post: #11

Isn't game part of self-improvement?

Post: #12

(05-20-2018 01:16 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  You do not need to be "skilled" in cold approach to live a life of abundance. However, unless you achieve tier 1 success (movie star, athlete, high level model, etc), a successful man who does not practice a frequent approach mechanism of some kind will have a more difficult time filling his ledger with women, considering few women will openly throw themselves at you without prompting.

So this was my point, what if a guy actually built a lifestyle that to some degree resulted in him meeting women?

Like say instead of spending the weekends doing work, he took up a hobby that introduced him to more women and built up a social life where he naturally meets more women than doing daygame and nightgame. What if this man took up photography or marketed himself in such an interesting way that he naturally met women instead of doing hardcore cold approach game.

Now I get if you had some IT dork who spent his weekends in coding competitions, it is a tough road but what about a guy who is an engineer on the weekdays and does a more interesting and social hobby on the weekends?

Post: #13

(05-26-2018 05:36 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  So this was my point, what if a guy actually built a lifestyle that to some degree resulted in him meeting women?

Like say instead of spending the weekends doing work, he took up a hobby that introduced him to more women and built up a social life where he naturally meets more women than doing daygame and nightgame. What if this man took up photography or marketed himself in such an interesting way that he naturally met women instead of doing hardcore cold approach game.

Now I get if you had some IT dork who spent his weekends in coding competitions, it is a tough road but what about a guy who is an engineer on the weekdays and does a more interesting and social hobby on the weekends?

I would think the more somebody exposes themselves to the opposite sex (especially if they're attractive) then that person would passively learn game.

Post: #14

(05-20-2018 12:00 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  Sounds like Game 2.0.

No more feather boas, magic tricks, fake earrings, and approach algorithms. Just be the most interesting guy in the room.

You left out reading and understanding the classics, being up-to-date on current affairs, being able to discuss topics intelligently without being offensive or inflammatory--instead use humor, find a group you can fit in, surround yourself with people you want to be like, and be diverse. Don't be a one-trick pony.

But, you still have to work on your Game. There is no way around it if you want to be successful.

Game 2.0?

What is game to you?

To be the most interesting guy in the room, by who's standards? I mean, I consider myself the shit. Very few guys who can tell stories better than I can are going to get my +1. That's not an accomplishment to me. Many current druggies or ex-druggies tell great stories. It's like the long-term side-effect of anyone who's abused drugs that I've met. They captivate you. But do you honestly think you have to be the most interesting man in the room to do well with women?

This forum puts too much emphasis on the necessity of being this perfect man, of which none of us are. Game is tweaking your personality, looks, and mindset to be successful with women.

You know there is a such thing to be yourself indirectly and directly and still do well with women. I haven't had to keep my mouth shut about red pill truths and I still pull 8s and above. You make this point about being a certain way and not everyone is willing to live up to those sentiments because options are great. I'm not saying be yourself in every way possible, but the alternative you've outlined sounds like you have to be a clown for women just to get laid.

Post: #15

Well... That's an interesting thing for you to say...

Not sure where you were going with this, but I am not a drug abuser, nor a "druggie," whatever that means. Means you do do drugs? Means you've tried drugs? Means you're addicted to drugs? Druggies that "tell great stories?"

I'm not even sure what you yourself are talking about, much less what I am talking about.

I was saying, "to be the most interesting guy in the room..." You went off on a drug rant.

I guess... Uffff... In my way of succumbing to my own bullshit... I'll just say: "drugs and fallacy"

Post: #16

Having great stories to tell is just a side effect of experiencing or allowing yourself to have exposure to these things.

Like in the movie "Yes Man".

Post: #17

Why not do both?

Post: #18

(05-26-2018 10:24 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 05:36 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  So this was my point, what if a guy actually built a lifestyle that to some degree resulted in him meeting women?

Like say instead of spending the weekends doing work, he took up a hobby that introduced him to more women and built up a social life where he naturally meets more women than doing daygame and nightgame. What if this man took up photography or marketed himself in such an interesting way that he naturally met women instead of doing hardcore cold approach game.

Now I get if you had some IT dork who spent his weekends in coding competitions, it is a tough road but what about a guy who is an engineer on the weekdays and does a more interesting and social hobby on the weekends?

I would think the more somebody exposes themselves to the opposite sex (especially if they're attractive) then that person would passively learn game.

Thinking we might be saying the same thing here......

Post: #19

Game IS bettering your life

Post: #20

(06-02-2018 12:18 AM)Irish Wrote:  Game IS bettering your life

This. Jesus Christ. This forum has been around for a long time. There shouldn't be so many shit answers before we finally get to the right answer.

Post: #21

The answers are, in increasing order of length, are: that's a false dichotomy, it is a copout, nobody's going to know how interesting you are unless you can communicate effectively which is really all that game is.

Post: #22

These " I propose an alternative to game" threads tend to come down to arguments about definitions. There are a lot more facets of game then simply "hard-core cold approach game." You don't need to build some specialized lifestyle to meet women, but if you have a lifestyle where you don't meet any women, or don't meet any high-quality women, you should change that.