Post: #1

With more time and experience at bars and clubs in I've come to believe that wingman are overrated if you're approaching girls in pairs or groups.

If your wingman is better looking/more skilled in game, he'll likely get the attention of all the girlsinthe group.

If your wingman is uglier/less skilled in game, the girl he's talking to will get bored and sabotage you by pulling your girl away, even if you're doing well with your girl.

Approach two girls solo and her friend will leave you alone assuming she approves of you and wander off to find a guy of her own.

The only time winging works is you're both equal in looks/game and they're both DTF that night.

Has anyone else experienced this in the Anglosphere where cockblocking is more rampant?

Post: #2

That jives with my experience in NYC.

Caveat: I haven't spent much energy trying to have wings - I enjoy rolling solo.

My friends that have game, and we're equals, we've gotten lucky in finding a similar pair of girls. Otherwise we'd be taking laps on our own.

[Ironically I rarely go out with those game-having-friends, they are friends from another area of my life. The first time I did and we all pulled, I was laughing inside at how I wasted this 'resource' during earlier years. Didn't matter though -- I was happy to have those friends in the capacity they were already in.]

My friends that don't really have game, I pretty much accept I'm just generating "girl talk practice" if I mack it while they are in tow, due to what you wrote. (Though I've definitely gotten day2-lays from that, where the girl in the group liked me and realized the rest of the group was never gonna click).

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I suppose if I "wanted to roll with wings" I'd have more nuanced, varied opinions. But I mostly didn't care.

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Also: I've had fun with spontaneous wings, guys I met randomly while out. Sometimes they are too much and I've had to ditch -- other times it's been fruitful.

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A lot of this really depends on culture, city, personality, age, etc. In some college town, everyone rolls in some kind of a crew of similar-SMV like-minded pals.

In my city, it's much more varied. I also enjoy talking to groups and assimilating/extricating myself to taste.

Post: #3

Having a less attractive wingman has helped me because they can still keep your target's friends distracted whilst your target is most interested in you and having a more attractive wingman has helped me because they can get me talking to hotter girls who might not have given me a chance if I were alone. Sometimes a wingman can just get in the way though but a good wingman should be able to sense that and know when to eject.

Post: #4

I’ve never been a fan of having wingmen, always preferred going “on the hunt” alone. Wingmen can, at best, distract her friends while you isolate your target and, at worst, can completely cockblock you whether accidentally (e.g. making a stupid remark that turns your target and/or her friends from talking to you) or on purpose (even amongst friends, the allure of getting your dick wet can provoke a competitive streak/rivalry and lead to sexual subterfuge or outright sabotage). My personal preference is to go lone wolf.

Post: #5

I find a wingman invaluable in breaking up a group of 2 or 3. Last approach went brilliantly as I opened the hot girl and he kept the conversation going while I distracted her 2 ugly friends. Eventually, the 2 uglies left the hottie alone with us)

Post: #6

As someone who gamed with a lot of wingmen over the years, here's my observations:

Find someone with decent game. Otherwise they won't be able to chat up the ugly friend and will ruin your sets one way or another. Besides with good game, they will motivate you to be bolder and grow

Your wing and yourself have to be independent. Because when you arrive in a bar/club, not every set should be done with your wing. I actually recommend it ONLY with 2-sets and in specific situations. Talk here and there with your wing, between sets especially to keep a good vibe.

Find someone who respect the rules He who opens own the set, period. Make it clear with your wing, and keep an eye open the first nights outs. Indeed, some will try to steal your girl when you're in the bathroom.

Outside of that (as in 90% of potential wing), wingmen are neutral/counter-productive. Learn to game solo, there is no way around it, but keep looking for a true good wing. If you're only going for digits, you can actually do 2-sets on your own.

Post: #7

I learned from the ground up.

Meaning purely solo in the beginning until I hit a plateau.
Then I branched into wings.

By learning this way, without a doubt, I've acquired a crystal clear view of the pros/cons of each.

I think any player who learns this way will undoubtedly know for himself the pros/cons of each.

That said, I also consider myself a more open-minded wing. I'll wing with practically any gamer as long as he approaches & is not super weird.

I can learn from every gamer so I don't discriminate too hard. But of course, winging with advanced gamers levels up your game really fast.

Wings help when you've exhausted your solo game & need fresh ideas. If you have enough discipline, you should solo until you can reliably solo when you want. This will help your wing game as well. If you require a large external boost, a good wing may be your savior. A bad wing may set you back several steps.

Post: #8

(05-21-2018 09:28 AM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  Your wing and yourself have to be independent. Because when you arrive in a bar/club, not every set should be done with your wing. I actually recommend it ONLY with 2-sets and in specific situations. Talk here and there with your wing, between sets especially to keep a good vibe.

This is a really good point.

This was the M.O. with my best two wingmen. Approach solo. If the other girl (or someone in the group) is attractive or you're having trouble they can jump in. Otherwise they just stand a few meters away and discretely observe your approach. When you're done, they can give you feedback. Bad vibe? They'll motivate you. Good vibe? They build up on it. Tired? Their turn to approach as you sit back and watch. Having a "home base" is really useful.

In fact, having someone watch me would usually not only motivate me but make me bolder. If the approach failed because I was too cheeky, we'd share a laugh. But more often than not being bolder would actually result in better results.

To answer to OP's question:

In general, it's best to go out solo and be self reliant, just because it's really hard to find wings who are social, upbeat, positive and/or have good game.

However, if you do find one, your game will compound on his and the results tend to be even better.

Post: #9

(05-21-2018 09:28 AM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  As someone who gamed with a lot of wingmen over the years, here's my observations:

Find someone with decent game. Otherwise they won't be able to chat up the ugly friend and will ruin your sets one way or another. Besides with good game, they will motivate you to be bolder and grow

Your wing and yourself have to be independent. Because when you arrive in a bar/club, not every set should be done with your wing. I actually recommend it ONLY with 2-sets and in specific situations. Talk here and there with your wing, between sets especially to keep a good vibe.

Find someone who respect the rules He who opens own the set, period. Make it clear with your wing, and keep an eye open the first nights outs. Indeed, some will try to steal your girl when you're in the bathroom.

Outside of that (as in 90% of potential wing), wingmen are neutral/counter-productive. Learn to game solo, there is no way around it, but keep looking for a true good wing. If you're only going for digits, you can actually do 2-sets on your own.

^ This covers a lot of the good points.

Aside from that I also adapt my way around bring over wingmen who aren't PUA, have no Game knowledge, just alpha-decent looking social guys in general. Everytime I just let them know, they are the most alpha looking guys around, and we're gonna hit on some- women (I'll have to do the opening all the time) and I let them know, once I start talking, they can also just jump into the conversation. If it's a 3set and we have 3 guys, each of us just start talking to each one. They probably can't help you enough to get the multi-set separated by should be good enough for number close or isolation.

Still invaluable for dealing with group sets.

This is useful because I always need to meet people again and rebuild connections from zero since I like traveling alot.

Post: #10

Just any wing might do more harm than good, but a good wing will never do anything but good.

A good wingman, someone who is good at social interactions, fun, can engage groups and talk you up...that's invaluable. Not to mention he may open and pass you the girl if he realizes she's more interested in you than him, a.k.a. team player.

Post: #11

I have had overall bad experiences with wingmen over the last few years.

I think when you have someone who is as good as you are or better is the best case scenario. Anyone who isn't as good as you are or better is just going to slow you down. When you get someone who meshes with you their help is invaluable.

Many times out there I have lost girls or has issues with groups/set because there is noone else to grab or distract her friend. You have to play a more relaxed game going solo than going with a wingman.

Post: #12

Pros:
- The best women are found in groups.
- It can be difficult as a lone-wolf to penetrate a group, sometimes. Wingmen can create a sweet group energy where everyone in the group feels comfortable because everyone has at least one friend there.
- Sometimes, if you vibe particularly well with another guy, you create a dope 1+1=3 synergy that girls love.
- Also, sometimes they make approaches that you benefit from, and vice versa. I'm pretty good looking so I get a fair few girls coming straight my way that my mates couldn't get, but who approached. Literally other week my mate approached, girl said "I like your friend better, he's cuter" and an hour later we were banging. I wouldn't have approached her otherwise and damn she was hot.
- If you can wing with legit dudes with tight game, you can learn more about how to approach the whole beautiful dance of seduction. Learning mad angles. Helps you loosen up and adapt to different situations.

On the other hand:
- Going out solo teaches you fastest because you probably have tunnel-vision. Ha.
- You develop the inner confidence from the fact that it is up to you and you alone to control your outcome, and you realise in life you gotta suck it up and go for what you want. Again, helps you learn.
- I've met guys who've come out with me and who spit shit game/can't approach. Dead-weight. Can be a total waste of a night.
- When you're out solo, you can bounce around and go wherever you want, and are not tied to your mates.

Post: #13

This is a very interesting theme for me, that I have been thinking about lately. I hope I can find time to elaborate a bit later. But just two or three thoughts;

- Extremely good looking wingman compared to me are a no go. They will get all the attention almost effortless and will leave me frustrated, specially in places with a few targets. I dont mind hanging out if he is a really cool guy and I enjoy his company, but if in one of the aforementioned places I know I better just enjoy the company and not think much about pulling girls.
Exceptions is when its a good looking couple, then it will raise my value, or in a big club with all the chaos involved and I can do my thing.

- Ugly, not stylish enough or non social calibrated wingman also a no go. Will lower my value and as the saying goes, "tell me who you hang out with and I tell you who you are". Also can get me frustrated.

- Passive guys who dont approach but also dont fuck up your approaches, I am OK with that. I can keep conversation flowing by myself.

- The ideal wing is a guy who is not much better or much worse looking than me. Is a good buddy to have some drinks and chat, can help entertaining a pair of girls, does not get jeleous that you are having success, and respects the rule of the one who approached first has not only priority but exclusivity. In sum, one hand washes the other, I will help him too.

Nonetheless the need of a wing is overrated, most of my bangs came while solo.

Also finding the ideal wingman is one of the most difficults aspects of game, or of life, it is a very big conjugation of factors, is not easy to find like minded people, loyal, articulate, with the same levels of energy, money, style...etc.

Post: #14

I have a few guys that I always do better with than if I were alone. All of them are pretty good looking, prob a bit better looking than me but it really comes down to the girls type. Sure I lose out occasionally on the hotter of the 2 girls, but just as often it works out for me. Depending on how the night goes down and who I’m with, we end up swapping anyway sometimes. Girls are more down for that than most people think, especially if you and your wing are on the same page.

My main requirement is they can’t be creepy and that they know when a girl is into me so they back off.

When it comes down to it, I probably do a bit better with a wing than alone.. If anything, it helps with the motivation to make approaches and makes sets of 2 so much easier. That said, my list of ideal wingmen i know is less than 10 guys.

Post: #15

(05-22-2018 08:13 AM)Rocha Wrote:  This is a very interesting theme for me, that I have been thinking about lately. I hope I can find time to elaborate a bit later. But just two or three thoughts;

- Extremely good looking wingman compared to me are a no go. They will get all the attention almost effortless and will leave me frustrated, specially in places with a few targets. I dont mind hanging out if he is a really cool guy and I enjoy his company, but if in one of the aforementioned places I know I better just enjoy the company and not think much about pulling girls.
Exceptions is when its a good looking couple, then it will raise my value, or in a big club with all the chaos involved and I can do my thing.

- Ugly, not stylish enough or non social calibrated wingman also a no go. Will lower my value and as the saying goes, "tell me who you hang out with and I tell you who you are". Also can get me frustrated.

- Passive guys who dont approach but also dont fuck up your approaches, I am OK with that. I can keep conversation flowing by myself.

- The ideal wing is a guy who is not much better or much worse looking than me. Is a good buddy to have some drinks and chat, can help entertaining a pair of girls, does not get jeleous that you are having success, and respects the rule of the one who approached first has not only priority but exclusivity. In sum, one hand washes the other, I will help him too.

Nonetheless the need of a wing is overrated, most of my bangs came while solo.

Also finding the ideal wingman is one of the most difficults aspects of game, or of life, it is a very big conjugation of factors, is not easy to find like minded people, loyal, articulate, with the same levels of energy, money, style...etc.

This is a very concise breakdown although I'd argue the first point. I have better success with wings better looking than me.

An extreme example of this is I am friends with a former NBA player who is not only a former NBA player but much better looking and far far far wealthier than I am. When I first started hanging out with him I was frustrated but eventually we got our game to match up through some communication. The key was we actually had very different taste in girls. He liked more meat on the bones and I like them rail thin. Some girls that know basketball come for selfies and to (attempt) to hang out other girls actually do not give a fuck and just wanted to hang out. I have no problem separating and isolating at the end of a evening when we hang out. We also rarely go back to his place unless we decide to throw an after party. Even then I've many times been able to get a girl to leave the after party with me and uber back to my much less impressive place.

While I might be many times the 2nd pick compared to my friend why should I care.? I've had a few instances where a girl asked me to go back to my place and barely even acknowledged his presence.