Post: #1

This gets mentioned a lot in other threads but I can't find a dedicated one (at least not recent) so here goes...

Firstly, I'd recommend reading this excellent, short article in The Spectator from James Delingpole that does a pretty good job of introducing you to what exactly is the problem here;

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/is-i...-superman/

This was linked to by Vox Day on one of today's post and it's set me off big-time as it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

Here's a couple of sample quotes from the article to put you in the picture;

'Iron Man is now a 15-year-old black girl who might be a sociopath; the Incredible Hulk is a 19-year-old Asian hipster guy; Thor is a woman who is dying of cancer; and Captain America is a full-on Nazi — to show readers how evil Donald Trump is — while his duties as a good person have been handed over to Falcon, who is much more to be admired, obviously, because he is black.

No, really, this is not a joke designed to satirise the leftist, identity politics lunacy which has afflicted so much of the US entertainment industry. This is what has actually happened to the superheroes of those two iconic imprints Marvel and DC Comics. Their characters have all been updated to make them relevant in a more diverse, gender–fluid age where, as rebel comic-books publisher Vox Day puts it, ‘all the princesses know kung fu and none of them need rescuing’.

He even mentions something about The Punisher now being trans-gender?! Although I can't find verification of this elsewhere. But reading those words did cause me to spit out my morning coffee. And then I found out that they want Spiderman to be trans-gender next.

As Vox and Delingpole both note, comics sales are tanking, but they don't seem to give a fuck and are ratcheting up;

'‘What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there… anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose against,’ Marvel’s VP of sales made the mistake of admitting last year. In the furore that followed he was then sent out to say the precise opposite —that he was ‘proud and excited’ about all the ‘unique characters that reflect new voices’ in the Marvel universe. Well of course. He had a job to keep.'

I bought a lot of comics as a kid as I loved to read and I loved to draw (still do). In the UK the newsagents would have a full rack devoted to boys comics; the Marvel and DC stuff but also loads of homegrown stuff; Action, Battle, Eagle, Victor, 2000AD, Scream etc. There's nothing like that now, and the ones that remain are utterly toxic.

Having a son of my own I couldn't wait to get him into comics, so started buying one each week so I'd have a collection for him. Naturally, I'd read them myself! I stopped about 5 years ago as it was becoming too expensive and finally handed them over as a gift to him. Here's the thing; even 5 years ago they were nowhere near as bad as they are today! What the fuck happened?!

Post: #2

As a black man this pisses me off...especially iron man and spiderman being black....Changing the race of any character is lame and not creative when you could use that same energy to create a new character. Atomic blond for example might not have been a great film but at least the didn't change james bond into jane bond...John the black green lantern is the only time I thought the black character was better than the original because his personality actually changed. It wasn't "hey im black" no it was "hey im this, and that, and that, oh and i so happened to be black"


The reason i personally hate it has not to do with me being racist BUT the fact that if the roles were reverse there would be great controversy.


Imagine making cyborg white or black panther white.....imagine turning somebody like starfire or raven into a man.

Making new characters create a new slate. Hell i can think of a corny one right now

a Black transgendered man (since it has to be special) who is tough, understands the world doesn't like him/her but doesn't care. Very active in the night world, drinks and smokes heavily, but a vegan and has a soft spot for animals. Im thinking the exact opposite of Batman in terms of having fun and enjoying life but still somehow has the same brooding and negative outlook on life

Powers include the ability to write code and manipulate code using just his/her brain (maybe through implants or who knows) also the ability to slightly use electricity to his/her advantage. To the point where she can SLIGHTLY slow down the electronic signals in the brain of his opponents to get an edge in fighting.

Superhero name is HackSaw

Post: #3

I'm just going to get this out of the way quickly.

"Comics are for kids. Go have sex with women. Culture is irrelevant. Enjoy the decline while complaining about the decline."

Alternately.

"If you don't like industry (x) being manipulated then you should rearrange your entire life to compete in industry (x). Most importantly, ignore any crony capitalism that will lock you out of the market. Libertarianism! Yay!"

Now that we've dodged several pages of bullshit, let's discuss the OP.

Post: #4

Replying to Donfitz007;
Absolutely. New characters should be introduced and left to live or die according to their popularity, be they black, white, asian, whatever. Piggybacking on existing, established characters is cheap, low and insulting and can't be doing anybody any favours.

Post: #5

This has been going on 'really bad' for about two years now.

Apparently, at a number of publishers, Marvel in particular, the SJWs and identify politics set have taken over and are being give comic book series to put out. Most, if not all of them, have terrible sales numbers. Some of them the sales were so bad that they got cancelled after several issues.

Usually Diamond Distributing, the one and only comic book distributor, will stop carrying a comic if its sales are below 1,500 but Marvel looks like they will give up on a comic if it is selling only several thousand per issue. While several thousand copies sounds like a lot, in the 1950s there were a number of comics that typically sold over 100,000 copies per issue.

The real problem with changing the characters is NOT that they are diverse, the problem is that the far left when they change a character to make them diverse they then no longer have or allow anything bad to happen to that character, because in their minds, that is something like a form of discrimination or hate, which they will not allow. The problem when they do this is that now there is no conflict in the story line, and without any conflict, problems or obstacles, for the hero or heroine to overcome, there is no plot. (As a side note: If the hero or heroine fail to successfuly deal with the conflict or obstacle, then the story is a tragedy.) Without a plot the comic becomes a story about nothing. At that point the story line is boring because nothing is happening in the comic, sales drop off and many series get cancelled.

As an example, think about what would happen if you took some of the old comic book series and changed the character to make them diverse but left the story and text EXACTLY the same. Sales would have been the same and the comic would have still been the success it was. The problem with the changes is not changing the race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, gender of the characters; the problem is that along with the changes is that all conflict is taken out of the story. Without conflict, which is an essential element of any plot; the story become a story about nothing and is boring. And no one wants to read a boring story about nothing issue after issue after issue, so sales drop off.

Five Elements of Plot Conflict:
https://penandthepad.com/five-elements-p...-4472.html

Post: #6

A number of people, especially long time readers of comics, are especially upset with the changes in writers and artists at places like Marvel.

For whatever reason, long time successful artists and writers seem to have problems getting work, while the new cadre of SJWs and the far left, with apparently little to none background in the industry or credentials, seem to be being given new series of their own to work on with few problems getting such work. Some commentators have even gone so far to imply or suggest that the reason some of these new writers, usually women in their late 20s or early 30s, are being given jobs because the decision maker thinks they are a 'cutie' and likes them.

While things like that have been going on for as long as written history, if I was to post a photo of some of these 'cuties' I think people here would be shocked that someone so unattractive was able to pull off something like that today. A number of them are definitely in the WNB category and can lead one to wonder if such reports of said person being given a job based on her beauty is really a satire or some kind of inside joke that we do not understand.

Post: #7

Just as an additional note:

Looks like DC is in the same state as Marvel, as in decline.

Zoe Quinn at DC and Vertigo.

LIVW - Talking ZOE QUINN AT DC/ VERTIGO? WHAT?




Vertigo Press celebrates 25 years by giving Zoe Quinn keys to the factory




I wonder who at DC Zoe is banging or are they all so cucked that they fell all over themselves to get her there?

Post: #8

It's not just the diversity and cultural marxism that ticks me off here. I don't know what it was like outside the UK, but I had so many boys comics to choose from as a kid. I don't think there are any these days for boys? I occasionally see 2000AD, and that may be it.

Back in my day, there was; Action, Commando (awesome war stories), Eagle, Hotspur, Roy of the Rovers, Starlord, Victor, Warlord, then there was loads and loads of DC and Marvel titles too.

All these titles were war or sports-themed with heroes and villains, traditional women...... hell, maybe I'm just getting too old. About the closest thing I can buy my boy as his 'regular weekly comic' is the occasional Xbox magazine! And then he tells me he's seen everything in it's pages already on Youtube. Sigh!

Post: #9

The big problem for comic book stores, is that the new story lines are killing sales.

SJW Marvel has RUINED my comic store:




My research has shown that the changes in the story lines was not the ONLY things that ruined sales, to the point where a number of stores ended up closing, but this problem along with a number of other problems was, for many stores, they last thing that did them in and put them out of business.

The problem with the decline sales, especially with the Marvel comic lines, is that Marvel is about 50% of the market. When customers that are subscribers stop getting a lot of comics, they do not come into the store as often and as a result sales go down for not only the comics but other items the stores sell; Magic cards, board games, other comic related collectibles, miniatures, etc.

A number of retailers have been complaining about the changes, partly because the series are terrible and no one want to buy them, partly because when people see a character in a movie and want to buy the current comic book about them discover that the printed comic is not the same character.

NYCC ’17 – Retailer Outrage At the Marvel Retailer Panel!:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/nycc-17-retail...ler-panel/

Post: #10

The top comic book companies are leftist/Marxist propaganda machines for the elites (((NOT business for profit)))

Marvel & DC’s owners do not want customers to be strong, masculine/feminine, well-read, and knowledgeable about how the world really works.

They want you to remain childless, low T, and passive.

They hire based on who will push their propaganda. NOT merit.

The creators at Marvel and DC don't care about what customers want. They only care about who signs their checks (Disney & Warner money).

Post: #11

Post: #12

I hate to say it but comics now are a product of the generation.

Men (a large portion) want to see strong women beat the shit out of men, Men don't want to be men but have a masculine woman who is strong, independent, brave, capable, etc etc so that the man in the relationship doesn't have the pressure to be those things

"my wife can handle herself and maybe even me in a fight so why should i worry about being brave" You'll be surprised how many men think like this

Women (almost all women) want to be men....simple as that. They want all the positive aspects that men work for handed to them. Men watch superhero movies and get inspired by them, women watch them to feel superior to them. The same as a man can watch James bond and work hard to achieve that life and a woman will watch the notebook or some romance book and wait for that to happen to them


Both men and women primarily under 30 are VERY immature as in they are like children.....They want to be ____ they want to be _____ but would be happier and safer in the role they're supposed to play

Post: #13

Post: #14

It's hilarious that the DC division was led by a fucking woman. The likelihood of her being an actual fan of DC comics was zero. No wonder their TV series are a bunch of teenage crap for women.
No wonder that they sunk hundreds of millions into the DC Universe movies and they generally sucked. There are a myriad ways of doing great stories with the Justice League, but they were led by a bloody diversity hire.

Now they hired Zoe Quinn to further destroy the franchise. It's as if that company is shooting itself in the head and then wondering why it has trouble walking and thinking.

Post: #15

Ignore so-called market drivers and marketing policy.

When people say "these Disney/Marvel/DC goons are idiots, destroying their brand and losing millions of dollars" well no, they are not.

These so called idiots have somehow managed for the last 100 years to make more money per day every day than most of you will make in a lifetime. You think any of them give a shit about money? They don't. The only thing that matters to them are victories in the war of cultural degradation.

I don't know why people haven't cottoned on to this. Listening to dudes claiming that these "idiots" are nonsensically ruining their brands is like listening to the last few tribal goat herders laughing about how the western devils are moronically bankrupting themselves spending $50k per missile.

These guys have an endless supply of money, and all of that money is nothing more than a means to power.

So next time you see the elites "wasting money" try to remember that they're ten times smarter than you on your best day. Ask what their "destroyed brands" are really buying them.

They are not wasting a cent.

Post: #16

That's why I don't read Marvel or DC comics. They subvert their own lore to pander to the hottest group at the moment.

It's dishonest.

Honestly, who gives a flying fuck if there aren't that many Black superheroes? That is sort of what makes them compelling. They're not common and they have lore that someone actually wanted to write about. Most of the black superheroes of the past were cool because someone actually took the time to create a wholly unique black character with their own set of problems that they wanted to solve.

now? They take Ironman and make him into a Black girl?



The sad part is that Marvel actually had a black super hero squad, the new warriors. This was way back in the day, but they never really caught on for some reason. Why not relaunch and re-image The New Warriors instead of turning Iron Man into a Black girl?

Post: #17

< Even better - why not bring Blade into the Marvel Universe? He is part of it in the comics. You already have the coolest black character out there beloved by everyone. You could even bring back Wesley Snipes and have his vampire half-breed son take over from him.

Ultimately Lenny is right - globalist elite have all the money in the world. Even blasting through billions of dollars is nothing to them. They ruined the Star Wars franchise, they ruined the DC one - and Marvel is only doing better because they add propaganda at bearable doses (some movies more and some less).

Blade for example was created in mostly propaganda-free times. He was no hero of "blackness" - he was a black hero for everyone just as Bruce Lee was a hero to boys of all races. Tony Stark for example is very popular among everyone being created by a good and likeable actor in saner times. Replacing him with a 16yo black girl who is supposedly better at everything than Tony Stark is insane (Tony at least studied and worked tirelessly for decades before becoming Ironman (his passions were pussy and science with little in between.) - and he was a genius already. It's even impossible for any 16yo boy to replace him - let alone a girl who behaves like a SJW.)

But now they have to stuff it all with far-left dogma - sometimes ruining the movies and sometimes not.

Post: #18

(06-09-2018 04:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Ignore so-called market drivers and marketing policy.

When people say "these Disney/Marvel/DC goons are idiots, destroying their brand and losing millions of dollars" well no, they are not.

These so called idiots have somehow managed for the last 100 years to make more money per day every day than most of you will make in a lifetime. You think any of them give a shit about money? They don't. The only thing that matters to them are victories in the war of cultural degradation.

I don't know why people haven't cottoned on to this. Listening to dudes claiming that these "idiots" are nonsensically ruining their brands is like listening to the last few tribal goat herders laughing about how the western devils are moronically bankrupting themselves spending $50k per missile.

These guys have an endless supply of money, and all of that money is nothing more than a means to power.

So next time you see the elites "wasting money" try to remember that they're ten times smarter than you on your best day. Ask what their "destroyed brands" are really buying them.

They are not wasting a cent.

Normally, I would agree with you. Most companies, even when acting like idiots and driving away sales, will still make money and continue on in some form or another or just raise more funds and/or borrow whatever money so the top people get to retirement; BUT every once in a while, a company does make 'its one last fatal mistake' and implodes.

As an example, Radio Shack. I worked there from time to time over the years. Over the years my friends and I kept thinking, 'If they keep doing stuff like this, they are going to kill the company'. Now, in spite of all the insane things they were doing, NONE of us every really thought that they would ever drive the company into the ground, but in 2015 they filed bankruptcy. While the company did reorganize, it was a shadow of its former self, and in 2017 filed again and is down to something like 30 store or so; but all of the bond holders and stock holders were wiped out in the 2015 bankruptcy filing.

One thing to take away from that is that Radio Shack looked 'ok' even as late as 2011 to the extent that it was able to issue a $325 million bond offering. Those bonds were wiped out in the 2015 Chapter 11 filing. As you can imaging, an investor that bought those bonds in 2011 would have been stunned that they lasted only a few years.

Things at a company may appear to be ok for years or even decades, but then all of a sudden something happens, the company is unable to make money anymore, and then everything just falls apart within a short period of time.

I was fortunate because there was a period of time I was looking to be a manager of a Radio Shack store, but if I had done that, unless I got to the point where I could have retired, I would have been caught in that with years to go to retirement.

Post: #19

(06-09-2018 04:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Ignore so-called market drivers and marketing policy.

When people say "these Disney/Marvel/DC goons are idiots, destroying their brand and losing millions of dollars" well no, they are not.

These so called idiots have somehow managed for the last 100 years to make more money per day every day than most of you will make in a lifetime. You think any of them give a shit about money? They don't. The only thing that matters to them are victories in the war of cultural degradation.

I don't know why people haven't cottoned on to this. Listening to dudes claiming that these "idiots" are nonsensically ruining their brands is like listening to the last few tribal goat herders laughing about how the western devils are moronically bankrupting themselves spending $50k per missile.

These guys have an endless supply of money, and all of that money is nothing more than a means to power.

So next time you see the elites "wasting money" try to remember that they're ten times smarter than you on your best day. Ask what their "destroyed brands" are really buying them.

They are not wasting a cent.

I think some people do not realize the extent some of the old lines have been driven. One example, and this was pre lots of SJW stuff with comics, was the old Archie line.

Archie Was Dying Long Before They Killed Him:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/arc...mic-sales/
This article was from July 15, 2014.


This chart is the shocker, after decades of having sales in the hundreds of thousand, sales dropped off in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, but at the end was something like only a few thousand per issue. Some people believe that while the popularity of the line over the years was most of the decline, they believe that recent changes to the story was what finished it off.

Quote:In a move that seems a bit heavy-handed even by the standards of a 1980s anti-drug PSA, Archie of Archie Comics will die Wednesday after taking a bullet for his best friend, who is a also a senator, gay and a staunch proponent of gun control.

My opinion is that the line could have sold several thousand to a dedicated fan base, but the changes in the story line ruined that market and was the end of the line.

Post: #20

deleted accidental reply to my own message

Post: #21

The Iron man one is the main reason i hate this "agenda" As you said she's a 16 year old girl who somehow better than tony in EVERY WAY? If she was the same age or if she was maybe Tony's true sidekick then it would be understandable but still stupid........Plus Tony's personality is what made iron great atleast the modern Iron man. This girl is simply a SJW Black chick......that's it........


The problem isn't comic bocks although im happy the Op made this thread. The problem is media in general.

Ever movie and game has at least one gay character, one strong female character, and one weak male character.


Casino Royal did diversity PERFECTLY in my mind. They let James be the lead, A strong man push to his very limits over and over and over again. The movie had 2 Very strong female characters that also showed weakness which made them likable. Also a key black character who made an intelligent decision that saved Bond. The movie was diverse yet realistic. Vesper was the stereotypical "hard feminist bitch" but grew to love Bond for his masculinity.

Post: #22

Kids like stories where good and evil are clear. They root for the good most of the time and condemn the evil.

For the post-modernists, there is no such thing as good or evil. Their goal is to level the playing field everywhere.

Post: #23

(06-08-2018 04:17 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

That's kind of bizarre. Between this and gencon there seems to be a concentrated push trying to move feminism past video games into related offline past times people have.

Why? Comics and tabletop games are pretty niche

Here's the sales data for the top part of the tabletop market:




What that means is that the largest player on the market sells less annually than launch sales for a single AAA video game. I don't really consider Star Wars licensed stuff to be in the same category because most of that stuff only exists as a license cash in and follows the success(or lack thereof) of the films.

These three players are the lion's share of the market. The Privateer Press products (Warmachine & Hordes are actually the same game) come in at 3rd with about $20 mil and the revenues of any individual company fall off a cliff after that.

Comic Books are a much larger industry:



However, they're still much smaller than the related film industry even before you adjust for the temporary bandwagon effect caused by the Marvel Cinematic Universe's popularity.

Quote:Kids like stories where good and evil are clear. They root for the good most of the time and condemn the evil.

For the post-modernists, there is no such thing as good or evil. Their goal is to level the playing field everywhere.

That's the only explanation I can think of. These people can't sleep at night because someone out there, somewhere, MIGHT possibly be thinking bad things.

Post: #24

(06-09-2018 01:40 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(06-08-2018 04:17 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

That's kind of bizarre. Between this and gencon there seems to be a concentrated push trying to move feminism past video games into related offline past times people have.

Why? Comics and tabletop games are pretty niche

Here's the sales data for the top part of the tabletop market:




What that means is that the largest player on the market sells less annually than launch sales for a single AAA video game. I don't really consider Star Wars licensed stuff to be in the same category because most of that stuff only exists as a license cash in and follows the success(or lack thereof) of the films.

These three players are the lion's share of the market. The Privateer Press products (Warmachine & Hordes are actually the same game) come in at 3rd with about $20 mil and the revenues of any individual company fall off a cliff after that.

Comic Books are a much larger industry:



However, they're still much smaller than the related film industry even before you adjust for the temporary bandwagon effect caused by the Marvel Cinematic Universe's popularity.

Quote:Kids like stories where good and evil are clear. They root for the good most of the time and condemn the evil.

For the post-modernists, there is no such thing as good or evil. Their goal is to level the playing field everywhere.

That's the only explanation I can think of. These people can't sleep at night because someone out there, somewhere, MIGHT possibly be thinking bad things.

Obviously unprofitable, obviously destructive, obviously idiotic. I'll have to agree with Leonard: they're not working for the sake of Marvel, DC, or Image, they're working for a higher agenda. They want to destroy all positive narratives, so that every book, movie, and video game becomes "Soylo: A Feminist Story".

They will fail - they'll open up the market to independent writers such as myself, Matt Forney, Vox Day - but in the process they'll do untold damage to a generation of young boys buying whatever the comic stand sells.

They want to destroy goodness, and they'll receive golden parachutes on their way out.

Post: #25

(06-09-2018 01:40 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Comic Books are a much larger industry:

Those numbers are no way in hell actual comics sales. Marvel admitted already that they had a 20% sales drop since their SJW agenda. Countless stores went bankrupt buying those comics and never being able to sell them off.



Marvel comics is part of Disney and I don't know if they publish even the actual sales numbers of the comics. Nowadays almost no comic reaches sales numbers of 50.000. Back in the 1990s they used to cancel a comic which sold 50.000. Now their grand masterpieces sell 15.000 and most of those are not real sales - the stores are stuck with the crap until they go bust.

My only explanation is that the parent company in those sales numbers funnels some movie royalties or Marvel cinematic toys sales into those revenues. Image itself collapsed by over 50% in the last years.

Ultimately you cannot build sales without numbers or some changes.

Possibly that only graphic novels will survive one day as they are still popular.

I might also point out that Star Wars toys were also doing fine, but then it turned out that ToysRUs went bankrupt partly because of unsold Star Wars toys that they were forced to buy - we are talking here about roughly 1 bio. $ + in merchandise because no one was interested in the Rose Tico and female rebel collections.