Post: #1

Living in SEA, I got very picky about girls for exclusive LTR. However, please kindly advice me with the following one.

her...
21 years old
looks: 8/10
clinginess: 7/10 (good in my book, i like a hot girl who always wants cuddle, hold hands, close proximity, now I "only" need to add "often horny" and "sexually outgoing" to her)
happyness: 8/10
horniness: 3/10
sexual skills: 3/10

Easy to have fun conversation with. That's a girl worth committing to. She's very attentive in the current moment, authentic, and I believe I can read her easily.

Before she had a three years long distance relationship. Speak: barely any sex. Seems believable. Didn't ask what was before that, not sure if important, not sure if useful, not sure I should. Doubt she was virgin though. (No blood.) Math insists that she didn't have too many years and too many guys to gather sexual experience and openness. It may be up to me to teach her. How?

Before she told me she's on her period. She was buying and wearing pads. But I wouldn't let that discourage me from trying to fuck her because I know some girls had already sex during period or could be converted to trying. I personally don't mind. Did it before. Easy. Horniness is bigger than the slight discomfort. Thought, easy decision. Better try, score and bonding than slight discomfort. Didn't lick a girl on her period yet but she would have been the first one if there was actual blood. Without the licking, I don't think I could have made her horny enough to fuck her. More below. The hotter the girl, the more I am enjoying licking her. Maybe she wasn't on her period and just wanted and excuse to avoid sex or was at the very beginning or very end. Didn't deepen the subject (don't call her on her excuses designed for slowing down seduction to not harden that behavior).

Had sex with her only once in the evening.
Was very difficult to seduce her. She was very hesitant. Low horniness. Almost failed to seduce her.
She interrupted me "Do you have a girlfriend?". Answer, no. "You didn't court me yet." - had no idea what that is even supposed to mean. Never heard that before. Went on with makeout, improvised and told her, that "i want you very much", "you're the perfect girl for me". Convinced her. That allowed me to undo her pants. I went on to lick her which made her horny enough so I could fuck her. Not sure she came from the licking when she stopped me. To make sure she doesn't cool down I kept licking her while I putting on the condom.

The walls were barely soundproof. That discouraged her. Maybe that's a major obstacle. Worth asking for advice here anyhow.

Very tight for whatever that comment is worth. Is there relation between how often girls fuck and how tight they are?

Then she badly wanted to sleep. Weird. Shes's young and for our first encounter we should be banging the hell out of each other, no?

I find it difficult to make her horny. She reacts bad to even slight dominance. She doesn't like pulling her hair or choking her.

Next day she even told me the next day a horror story about her female friend and her boyfriend abusing her. She views dominance as sadism. Not as exciting / action. However, thought her that. Told her to kiss my ear, that she refused and finds gross.

She doesn't enjoy being kissed at her neck, ear or belly, she finds that ticklish. Not too uncommon in SEA. But her case is severe. Possible to rewire her ticklish feeling into arousal?

Massages she enjoys, makes her relaxed, but doesn't turn her on. She didn't let me finger her.

So to turn her on I have only a very limited repertoire of options, that is wild kissing, medium-strong hugs, lie on her and dry sex, licking tits, licking pussy.

Money: I pay hotel, food, transportation. She doesn't ask or discuss money.

She seems super hyped up about me but her horniness is low. She keep complementing me like no other girl before. I have a good connection to her. She wants me to meet her family already. This is a very big sign of interest of her, right? I said yes, but I am a bit hesitate about it. Don't want to embarrass her by leaving her after a while if the sex is rare. Such a nice guy I am still (not even convinced to stop being). My biggest doubt about her is that the sex thing won't work out. Unfortunately, I will not accept an almost perfect relationship with rare sex.

Case of LSE? Too early to tell probably? Anyhow, any advice?

goal minimum: fuck at least somewhat easy twice in the evening and once in the morning. Otherwise I am afraid I can't have a super hot girl sleep next to me for multiple days without getting off. And masturbation while she's with me seems besides the point and lame.

goal optimal: highly converted gf, being able to make her horny easily, and fuck her whenever i want (had this with an ex of mine who was sexually hyper active, wanted more sex than me or other girls who could be made horny easily)

goal optimal: make her sexually more open, this could be a very long term project

It happen to me before in similar ways. I had a super hot girl. In the first week we fucked a lot. She had many guys before me. You know, others would call her slut but got happy about sexually open girls that easy and fuck great. Then she started making excuses why she couldn't have sex with me. (Period; cramps; already helped myself; tired; sick) She was much less hyped up about me. Couldn't make the butterflies come back. Nothing even other girls interested in me could get her attraction back up. Therefore I discussed it with her twice and then ended it. Was wondering why she's with me anyhow. For food and better room only? She could have gotten more financial benefit from any other guy and she knows that. Did she just like me as "flatmate"?

Maybe the sex got boring over time. Maybe I overfucked her. Maybe I should fuck girls less during the initial butterfly phase? I am already re-reading sex god method back and forth. On the other hand, other girls were easily satisfied even long term.

Post: #2

Most likely she has been abused in her past, which is most often at the hands of someone she trusts. A LOT of pretty girls have weird shit happen to them, and in my experience, Asian girls more than others.

These girls can make absolutely amazing partners and mothers. Some of the best even, due in part to their disgust with how someone could hurt a child. They will latch on to a strong man, and while it can feel overwhelming if you like a lot of space, you can still make them feel safe and secure without the fear of abuse or abandonment. Remember, some abused girls are taken advantage of by an older man that they fear, yet love, at the same time. Its a confusing mental space for young girls, especially at her age where sex is becoming something more.

Sex. If you get the trust/fear/abandonment/safety/disgust under control, sex will get better. If she has a clit, she will enjoy sex. So as you build all of the above, you also build her into taking care of your needs. If you start at the beginning, which it sounds like you are, then this will be the replacement for all her fear and anxiety.

This is not an easy task, and if you just want pornstar sex with random nana sloots, you might just want to move on. But if you are looking for something more and enjoy putting in some effort for someone you care about, then the reward could be immense.

* I say can make great partners. But some women have been abused so bad that they have made blockers in their brain that would take some deep therapy to break. Many of the slootiest sloots I have known have had some dark shit happen to them and the only way they seem to be able to down play their trauma is lots of meaningless sex.

Post: #3

Next her

"I want the person I love to be different" (said infatuated men and women throughout time before splitting up)

People rarely change because true change can only come from within. This girl is the way she is, the woman you're hoping for doesn't exist in this particular woman

Sounds like the two of you are simply incompatible.

Post: #4

(06-13-2018 09:45 AM)ShuaiGe Wrote:  Next her

"I want the person I love to be different" (said infatuated men and women throughout time before splitting up)

People rarely change because true change can only come from within. This girl is the way she is, the woman you're hoping for doesn't exist in this particular woman

Sounds like the two of you are simply incompatible.

The bold part is true, if this is a personality issue. There are some real caveats to the above.

He likes being around her. A lot. They have fun. Good conversation.

She lets him fuck her, somewhat. So she is not a total loss in this regard.

I agree, some girls are just not that into sex in the same way that some girls want it 5 times a day.

Changing a girls desire for you is not the same as changing other personality issues. Many personality traits come from their childhood, while sex is quite a new thing to come to terms with for a teenager (or even later).

The OP comes across as being robotic. This could be due to ESL, but perhaps not. Many girls need a lover that respond in sync to her physical and emotional cues in order to enjoy sex. Its a trust thing for these kind of timid women. They are not the same type of women (yet) that like being grabbed and fucked against a high rise balcony railing.

Post: #5

Is it useful to verbalize my needs and discuss it with her?

Advantages:

- Clearer communication as just trying non-verbal? The non-verbal is however the first thing I try, if I am lucky that suffices.

- Non-verbal only, she might underestimate the importance of the matter for me. The thing is, through pickup I learned to take all kinds of rejections lightly. Be it trying to approach girls or be it being rejected during sexual escalation. Taking it lightly, suppressing and avoiding any negative emotions for both helps to score. Hesitance during sexual escalation is often only temporary and this mindset helps. However, with a girl that's either LSE or no longer attracted to me this can lead to a weird situation. She might think I don't mind much about it and then be super surprised when I dump her. "Leave her better than you found her." Or at least don't needlessly harm her.

- Indecent to dump her with no prior spoken communication.

Disadvantages:
- puts pressure on her which may be counter productive

I like to find out if your guess that she's been abused is true. If she makes progress, even slow progress, I would keep her.

With the last girl I also described in my previous post where I had a similar issue, I discussed it with her twice and then ended it since no change was on the horizon. Couldn't even give her a second chance because the next girl already lined up. No need to fix a hottie I was a short time with which is no longer hyped up about me if another hottie is available and hyped up about me. In this case her age and beauty however is hard to replace.

(06-13-2018 09:45 AM)ShuaiGe Wrote:  Next her

"I want the person I love to be different" (said infatuated men and women throughout time before splitting up)

People rarely change because true change can only come from within. This girl is the way she is, the woman you're hoping for doesn't exist in this particular woman

Sounds like the two of you are simply incompatible.

I see your point. Possibly a valid one.

However, pushing your argument to the extreme, it would mean to fuck a virgin and to dump her the next day if she's not a natural talent?

Another girl I slept with in SEA told me, that she had only one man before me. Her prior husband. She told me that he wanted oral sex and she refused. She neither wanted to be on the receiving nor on the giving end. She found that gross. He slept with another girl, she found out and she left him. With me she allegedly had her first oral sex. She had a natural talent for oral sex (although didn't finish me) and was top 5 in vaginal sex skills. Suppose this story is true (should could be telling me bullshit stories, I wouldn't know) doesn't that mean that girls can develop?

Also I am not into SM and I know very few girls who are neither or even interested. Yet, so man manage to convert normal girls into SM liking girls, right?

I remember another girl who I was dating for a while. Cared much less about her because I was just staying temporarily there and she was much older. Important point though, in the beginning she was too sensitive and complained a lot about minor things such as being hurt by my beard or from lying on top of her. After 5 meetups or so it got better. Had to dump her since she became too clingy, making me feel bad about fucking other girls.

Post: #6

"You didn't court me yet" sounds like something a Filipina would say or am I wrong?

She could genuinely be a low sex drive girl but it sounds quite likely that she's just from a religious, traditional background which has made her feel guilty about sex and she's not yet comfortable in her own sexuality. If you can give her enough comfort that she's safe with you, she will start to explore it and get more comfortable and wild. Just take things slow. In my experience it's quite typical of SEA girls, especially Filipina girls from provinces to not feel shamed enough about sex to stop them doing it but shamed enough to make the experience totally awkward to begin with. It's definitely possible to open them up to it though and they will love you for it! You've just got to take the opposite approach that you would with a confident Western girl.

Post: #7

LTR ......... what is that ugh. She may have deeper issues than meets the eye is a scenario and the other factor is that your her beard/cover for friends and family. If she is this way now chances are slim it will improve say 5 to 10 yrs later . Choose your top priorities and decided accordingly life is to short to settle for less. If you like her company just get a few side chicks would be my solution. Are you and alpha or a beta.

Post: #8

I tried to make something happen with a low sex drive girl at 20. Just next her, it's a waste of time.

Post: #9

Get a plate?

Post: #10

You have to set very serious ground rules with those sorts of girls from the get-go or they end up clinging so tight that you want to dump them.

They will ultimately like you more if you run a tight-ship, but be warned: they can really annoy the fuck out of you with their clinging if you don't keep your frame tight. I had this issue with one of my first "STRs" in China.

Post: #11

Well I would advise against getting into an LTR with a woman that isn't very interested in sex, but....

When you said "She reacts bad to even slight dominance. She doesn't like pulling her hair or choking her."

If you are fucking choking and hair pulling on your first bang with a sweet shy girl, then your social calibration is probably so far out that YOU are the problem.

Real sex and intimacy with a normal woman on the first time IS NOT A FUCKING GONZO PORN MOVIE.

Try adding some comfort and read on the internet how to have soft, tender, shy girl sex, and work up from there.

You will probably find her more interested...

Post: #12

(06-13-2018 01:14 PM)blum Wrote:  However, pushing your argument to the extreme, it would mean to fuck a virgin and to dump her the next day if she's not a natural talent?

Another girl I slept with in SEA told me, that she had only one man before me. Her prior husband. She told me that he wanted oral sex and she refused. She neither wanted to be on the receiving nor on the giving end. She found that gross. He slept with another girl, she found out and she left him. With me she allegedly had her first oral sex. She had a natural talent for oral sex (although didn't finish me) and was top 5 in vaginal sex skills. Suppose this story is true (should could be telling me bullshit stories, I wouldn't know) doesn't that mean that girls can develop?

To me that isn't intrisic development though. She received a cold hard slap in the face, when her man looked for happiness elsewhere. Prior to that, she believed she good just get by without performing oral sex. It was essentially a humbling experience for her. No amount of pursuasion and no combination of words could have swayed her into giving her ex-dude head.

After she got her reality check, she understood what to do. I think there are certain steps in every persons development that can only be induced by actual experience and emotion. This happens a lot in sports too, when players get traded or released from teams and NOW they have a chip on their shoulder and want to prove that they were good all along, when they actually weren't.

The low sex drive girl doesnt have to spread her legs to keep a guy around. She's pretty, that's enough. Guys will stick around for that occasional, quick bang she reluctantly offers them.

Post: #13

So met her again. Spent two days in a row with her. Evening sex was ok. She opened up more.
During morning sex she was so hesitant and booing, I couldn't keep hard. Glad she didn't notice. Haven't converted her into my always horny for me girl yet. But then had three times ok sex during the day. I guess that alone means there is potential, right? Really hard though to heat her up.

Definitively the last time I keep looking for a super hot girl. Should she be out of the game one day, I'll stick with less pretty ones that fuck great. Looks are somehow much less important than feeling during sex. She's given a chance since she made great progress, isn't quick to replace, comfortable to hang out with.

She doesn't heat up by lying on bed, cuddling and french kissing, which I find very weird and baffling. So things don't add up yet. She's super clingy, wants to cuddle and kiss a lot a lot, but is hard to make her horny.

I figured out how to make her crazy. Fucked her slow for my own immersion and benefit until she demanded "harder". But my sex sessions are a symphony. It's stupid to start fucking hard or super hard since then there is no more increment possible, therefore no kick to orgasm. That showed a possible problem in her state of mind. She's waiting for harder. There she's not in the current moment. Very assumptions indeed. Then I told her, "maybe later". I think the "maybe" is good since it creates uncertainty, excitement. Sometimes refusing her wish is a form for dominance. Went on to tell her in hypnotic voice to explain a long sentence "just relax. just concentrate on the current moment. concentrate on your feelings and emotions. don't wait for harder. just enjoy the now". If my perception was right, she complied with my instructions, was moaning louder. Then it actually worked to fuck her harder, then less hard, then harder again to push her over the edge to orgasm. Let me know I am totally off with my assumptions over the female mind / misinterpret sex god method.

Her ticklishness was reduced.

Too reply to your points...

We both have ESL indeed.

Me being robotic? Maybe true. Maybe I fucked to many girls who responded positive to dominance or who were bored without dominance. Yeah, I need to take my time with that one. Lots of talking, fun, cuddling, kissing, being authentic. Looks like that opened her up. Feel like teenager, feels like we're blue pill 14 years old and just doing that not knowing it's possible to escalate to sex.

If what she's telling me is the trust which I find very likely then she has very very limited sexual experience.

Filipino, province, traditional background, religious, yes but not too much, looks like.

Side chicks? After around 10 years of pickup I've given up on that. I don't manage recruit girls and keep long term while staying honest and recruiting more girls. Never managed to develop that skill. Possibly also since I rarely met someone in real life with that skill so few people to look for advice. Could have cheat on her already but let the chance pass. Not fair and too risky (they loose some hair, use condoms, might mark, might need to change sheets, towels, message me, lots of clues, girls aren't stupid).

Post: #14

If a girl is low sex-drive, maybe she needs to be more assertive. Buy her a pegging strap-on so that she can practice on you. She'll be more confident in handling things.

Post: #15

Sex at most once per day. Couldn't ever figure out how to reliably make her horny easily. This is the crux.

Recently her initial phase of high decentness and happiness transformed into a phase of irrationality high and always reframing madness. I left a date with her since she was treating me disrespectful (unwelcoming gestures, facial expression, behavior, language in front of her friends towards me) in front of her friends. Next day she picked up her stuff and dumped me. Reasons she gave for her madness was all the blue pill nonsense in her mind that I need to buy her flowers, gifts and spend money on at least medium prices restaurants since other guys did that for her she wasn't even engaged with.

Now she wants me back. But she actually doesn't have much bargain chips. I don't value age and looks as high at the moment. Actually, I am considering trying to reactivate girls where sex was a mutal thing like dancing. Her sex drive is low, her sexual pleasing efforts low and she treat me cold and disrespectful. Quite an experience. Was worth trying, though!

Any advice? I me not initially texting her and not making any effort to get her back is showing her that I am serious about not treating me disrespectful. Just next her or can I still learn from this experience? Should give her bits of texting her back to make her chase me or can I otherwise learn from this?

Post: #16

(07-03-2018 04:22 AM)blum Wrote:  Sex at most once per day. Couldn't ever figure out how to reliably make her horny easily. This is the crux.

Recently her initial phase of high decentness and happiness transformed into a phase of irrationality high and always reframing madness. I left a date with her since she was treating me disrespectful (unwelcoming gestures, facial expression, behavior, language in front of her friends towards me) in front of her friends. Next day she picked up her stuff and dumped me. Reasons she gave for her madness was all the blue pill nonsense in her mind that I need to buy her flowers, gifts and spend money on at least medium prices restaurants since other guys did that for her she wasn't even engaged with.

Now she wants me back. But she actually doesn't have much bargain chips. I don't value age and looks as high at the moment. Actually, I am considering trying to reactivate girls where sex was a mutal thing like dancing. Her sex drive is low, her sexual pleasing efforts low and she treat me cold and disrespectful. Quite an experience. Was worth trying, though!

Any advice? I me not initially texting her and not making any effort to get her back is showing her that I am serious about not treating me disrespectful. Just next her or can I still learn from this experience? Should give her bits of texting her back to make her chase me or can I otherwise learn from this?

Provider game:
The fact that paying for the hotel spiked her interest so much and her complaints revolve around you paying for things, you are very likely in the dreaded provider category. This likely explains why her behavior in the bedroom is so passive and transactional in nature. I always try to attract women as a lover (on the merits of personal attributes) early in a relationship because the transition from provider to lover is much more difficult to make than the reverse and maybe impossible with certain girls.

Provider to lover transition:
Calling her bluff is a chance to shift things at least somewhat from provider back towards lover. At least she knows now that you aren't so enchanted with her pussy you'll pay for whatever she wants like the last guy. I would make it clear to her that you don't view relationships as a quid pro quo and that you have no interest in being a sugar daddy for an ungrateful princess who isn't meeting her man's needs. There's probably a diplomatic but firm way of saying this and conveying that you're a generous person but only if you're being taken care of.

This girl sounds like she may be beyond repair, but might as well try to generate attraction by being dominant and assertive now that you have the upper hand. If you are quite a bit older and got lazy with the dates I guess it's possible she has started to feel like you're using her for sex and not getting much in return, so something to be aware of if you got complacent. It's hard to know without the details of how you attracted this girl in the first place etc.

In conclusion:
It was probably a mistake to pay for the hotel and such and set the expectations high so early if she wasn't fully meeting your desires because it sends the wrong message. You also don't want to get too pegged into the provider category early on. Either way this girl sounds pretty entitled and boring but might as well try to salvage it by taking the upper hand and at the very least get some decent spite banging sessions out of it.

Post: #17

Let me thank you and tell you, that I appreciate your highly valued input!

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  The fact that paying for the hotel spiked her interest so much and her complaints revolve around you paying for things, you are very likely in the dreaded provider category. This likely explains why her behavior in the bedroom is so passive and transactional in nature. I always try to attract women as a lover (on the merits of personal attributes) early in a relationship because the transition from provider to lover is much more difficult to make than the reverse and maybe impossible with certain girls.

I know what you mean by provider game. Provider relationship is horrible. Lover relationship is exiting. In the Western world I used to never pay for girls. Why should I pay for them if not paying for them works actually better.

Do you have experience in the Asian world? The thing is, by she's poor indeed. You'd have to see her housing. On job education depending on allowance by parents which are middle class at best. By comparison she's super poor and I am rich.

It's hard to not provide for these sort of Asian girls at all. If they are living in shitholes and then can stay over night in a Western quality level room with me, I am already providing for them. With my previous one I was wondering after a while if she just stays with me for better housing.

It's much more ingrained in the culture that the wealthy should pay more (hello communism) and the stand point she has to pay everything by herself or 50/50 is indefensible here in front friends, family. So I adopted.

The other alternative or perhaps the only thing that could last longer than a month would be to take a middle or higher class girl. Met 3 of them already who would be interested in dating. Girls working in real estate. Looks like they would be cool not providing for them but they're already around 28-35 or so and less hot. Girls 18-21 who are not poor could be rare here.

She finds me to heavy when I am lying on top of her. Need to prevent putting my full weight on her. It's difficult to even get two fingers into her. I can't reliably easily make her horny. These are either real, unfixable issues or issues derived from other previous mistakes. That alone makes me wonder if this relationship is broken beyond repair.

It bugs me that I don't know if she's a legitimate unfixable case of low sex drive or if it's my lack of skill. It motivates me to figure out the latter.

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  Provider to lover transition:
Calling her bluff is a chance to shift things at least somewhat from provider back towards lover. At least she knows now that you aren't so enchanted with her pussy you'll pay for whatever she wants like the last guy.

Yeah.

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  There's probably a diplomatic but firm way of saying this and conveying that you're a generous person but only if you're being taken care of.

I can't think of a diplomatic way. But I wonder why shouldn't meet up with her and tell her point blank. Going to be an interesting experience and might learn something.

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  If you are quite a bit older and got lazy with the dates I guess it's possible she has started to feel like you're using her for sex and not getting much in return, so something to be aware of if you got complacent.

Yeah. I am wondering about that now. Sex god method in this very case didn't help wonders. And if I can't deliver a great sex experience and/or if she's indeed low sex drive then it may be too little return for her.

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  You also don't want to get too pegged into the provider category early on.

Meaning, later on providing for her doesn't ruin things?

(07-03-2018 06:55 AM)jcardial Wrote:  Either way this girl sounds pretty entitled and boring but might as well try to salvage it by taking the upper hand and at the very least get some decent spite banging sessions out of it.

You motivate me!

Upper hand. Yeah. All her friends and family is probably telling her now something along the lines "Are you stupid to dump such a handsome guy for such a stupid reason?!" or "You shouldn't have dumped him, you could have have gotten a lot more benefit out of him?!" I wonder how these astronomic levels of social proof that I never reached before didn't result in stronger sexual attraction.