Post: #1

So here's something that happened today.

I was feeling a bit under the weather today. Previously I'd let the illness fester in hopes that my immune system would kick, but I decided this around to opt for some meds. I went to this local chemist and made inquires about a few drugs I needed. She was surprisingly very friendly and playful.

Having noticed her countenance, I ramped my teasing game. I teased her endlessly about overpricing me and trying to inflate the prices. She lapped it all up like a kitten licking its first milk.

I told her about how I'm insomniac and sleep is a big issue for me. She teased me back that I was worrying about a lot and that I needed to rake a break. I teased back by saying lshe has been giving me sleepless nights.

Everything was going well until I requested for a pack of condom. She suddenly recoiled and eased back. I noticed it and figured out she was trying to bait me into further indulgence in a conversation. So I went aloof too. She made little eye contact and I mirrored her. I kept my replies as curt as hers.

My wingman who eavesdropped on the conversation pointed out to me how she recoiled after I purchased a pack of condoms. It was that palpable.

What did I do wrong, if at all. Was she jealous that I'm a sexual man who gets more squirrel than an oak tree or was I dealing with a prude? A puritan? Or just some nutjob?

RVFers to the rescue.

Post: #2

You were flirting and teasing a girl that you were attracted to....then bought some condoms from her.....and you don't see anything wrong?

Post: #3

I figured buying condoms would be an underhanded way of communicating my sexuality to her. I figured she'd see me as a guy who gets laid regardless of the outcome of our flirting ( pre-selection).

Post: #4

No, not really.

There's nothing "alpha" about that, nor communicating it.

She has no idea who you are.

Think about this way, "A girl is flirting hard with you at the counter, you're digging it, but then she buys Plan B from you" - not the most attractive thing.

There's no pre selection going on, the only thing I see here is bad game, and I really hope you didn't just buy condoms just to show her "hey I fuck, so what's up" - because that's terrible game.

What you should've done, is flirted (not buy condoms), got her number, then gamed like usual.

Post: #5

Do you think she's a lost cause or is there a way to fix this?

Post: #6

Ask yourself that question and then apply it to her.

I'd be willing to bet if she saw you again and you flirted she'd keep it short and polite.

I guess it doesn't hurt to try though.

Post: #7

Really socially uncalibrated. Pre-selection is a thing for sure but believe it or not there are girls out there that shut down when they think of you banging other women. The evo psyche explanation is that girls get turned off by it because they want to monopolize access to your attention and resources and guys obviously want to ensure paternity and not be with damaged goods.

So when you bought that condom, which was probably awkward and poorly executed because you're being incongruous and weird and she's not blind. It set off a chain of bad feelings/disgust. 1 you're bluffing, 2 she's thinking that you're flirting with her and about to fuck some girl, which would almost be okay if it weren't for the obvious bluff (because you'd be getting laid and why do you give a fuck anyways), 3 while you did it you most likely looked to her to react while being reactive to her which is a turnoff.

My suggestion to you is to calibrate your game so being honest doesn't feel forced and helps achieve your goals. Little deceptions like that unless executed flawlessly won't get you far. If you're doing the mental calculus and come up with question marks you're not cut out for it.

If you have nothing to lose I'd talk to her again, she probably doesn't hate you for it. Just (as always) be willing to walk away when things don't go well.

Post: #8

You could have made it fun if you asked if they had any mini-sized condoms with a big smirk on your face. I've done that before several times and managed to keep the flirty vibe going. Don't know if I ever actually went for the number in those moments, though - sure it could be done, but your game would have to be pretty strong.

All in all, it's an uphill battle. If you want to grab her number, pick up the condoms somewhere else next time and save yourself an awkward moment that could definitely be a momentary dealbreaker for a lot of birds.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

Pre-selection encompasses that range of thoughts where she's saying "he could have any woman", "every woman wants him". You're selective, high-value, and you know what to do.

She doesn't want to be confronted with the actual bangs and will even help you cover it up if she doesn't want it to be true. (God help you if she needs an excuse to hate you, though.) I've seen a lot of women tolerate blatant cheating until they realized their friends knew and then their pride took over.

You crossed the line when it made her wonder if you just have indiscriminate sex with low-quality women and set off her ASD. A more experienced woman might brush that off but obviously she was enjoying the magic and that broke the spell.

Side note, the manager at my local drugstore used to get playful like this. One time I escalated slightly by putting my hand on her hip while we were talking in a quiet aisle. It tripped her circuit bad for a while. After that, she'd have customers waiting while she's trying to keep my attention. People in line would just smirk because it was so obvious.

The interesting thing was that all the other women working for her, seeing this, gradually started arcing and sparking when I'd come in, too. That's pre-selection in action. Think of all the women competitively making fools of themselves when certain musicians come on stage. They aren't all just independently attracted, they're taking social signals from each other.

"Who is that guy? He's somebody! I don't why, but I'm supposed to bang him! My manager's body language says so!"

Post: #10

Should have asked for the magnums HAHA. Also I think your frame of going silent may have fucked you over. Could have been nonchalant about it, and gotten away with it, but by going silent you made it even more awkward for her. If you said it in a joking or cocky type of way that might have worked a little better.

Post: #11

Thanks for the input RVFers.

But here's an idea I'm nursing.

I noticed that the condom she sold me was expired. It expired about a month ago. I plan on going over to the shop and playfully teasing her about selling me tanked condoms. I won't ask for a refund. I'll just weasel my way out of the convoy on condoms and setup a date.

During our last convo, she asked if I could cook. I playfully told her that I my dad is a chef. My grandad too. So I got the genes for making people lick their fingers. ( I made sure I accentuated and emphasized the '...making people lick their fingers).

So I plan on seguing into that convo and telling her I will be doing a weekend special ( a one time deal) and she's free to come ( technically, my bro is organizing it but what the heck).

Thoughts?

Post: #12

Probably shouldn't harp on the condoms man. Just my personal opinion since it made her so uncomfortable last time. Is she one of those super religious bitches? That might be why she was so offended. If she likes you enough and you have a positive attitude it might work. I'd say you have a 35% chance of success.

Post: #13

(06-26-2018 03:56 PM)Stonk Wrote:  Thanks for the input RVFers.

But here's an idea I'm nursing.

I noticed that the condom she sold me was expired. It expired about a month ago. I plan on going over to the shop and playfully teasing her about selling me tanked condoms. I won't ask for a refund. I'll just weasel my way out of the convoy on condoms and setup a date.

During our last convo, she asked if I could cook. I playfully told her that I my dad is a chef. My grandad too. So I got the genes for making people lick their fingers. ( I made sure I accentuated and emphasized the '...making people lick their fingers).

So I plan on seguing into that convo and telling her I will be doing a weekend special ( a one time deal) and she's free to come ( technically, my bro is organizing it but what the heck).

Thoughts?

This reads pretty cringey. I would not do the condom schtick, but once again - as long as you're willing to walk away and/or be embarrassed go for it. Lord knows I still embarrass myself from time to time and it keeps me up at night, but maybe you sleep well no matter what. I've done worse, if she's cute and works with the public I guarantee she's seen worse.

There's a chance you may be interpreting the situation correctly, and there's also a chance she's just being nice and getting along with customers while she does her job. There's nothing wrong with trying to bang girls that you run into during the day that are working but it's not beginner game - judging by your posts - no offense - that's where you're at.

You're also spending too much time thinking about her. She's just one girl, doesn't sound like she's indicated seeing you outside of work. Game other women.

Post: #14

Stonk - what you are doing is over-gaming to the extent of being socially awkward. You want to differentiate yourself from other guys but not so much that girls perceive you as weird.....and this whole condom routine will be perceived as very weird by a girl.

Plausible deniability is concept you should read more about. Girl's want plausible deniability. After she asks if you can cook and you tell her that your father and grandfather are chefs, you say you have the genes to make amazing meals and you could cook something for her sometime. Girls are more socially intuitive then men so she knows that when you say you could cook something for her sometime that implies that she is coming over to your place and her coming to your place implies hooking up.

"So I got the genes for making people lick their fingers" is over the top unless you are some type of gmanifesto super player which isn't realistic for 99.99% of us.

Your game is almost like you are trying to come up with things to say that you find very clever. But you aren't the audience. She is the audience and she thinks very differently from you.

Post: #15

I noticed that in my game. I sometimes come off as an entertainer. Coming up with flirty quips and funny one liners instead of engaging the girl.

Well, it seems the whole condom routine was bad game. But Roosh wrote something sometime ago about contrary game.

Your game doesn't necessarily have to be alpha, it just has to be different. I could wager my entire savings that no guy has bought a pack of condom from this broad and came back to tease her on selling him tanked condoms and seguing into playful banter.

For this reason, I think its worth a try. As Eugenics pointed out, it seems I'm spending too much time on thus broad. So, I think I will try it out and be totally outcome independent.

Post: #16

You have a point, it will definitely stand out. I'm not trying to discourage you but it may stand out in a bad way guaging by her previous reaction. But if you go in ZFG for a laugh on the way home from work and she's far outside your social circle, fuck it I guess man.

Good luck, interested to see how it goes for you. Outcome independence is key to a lot of social interactions and it's one of the most difficult things (for me at least) to flip on and off.

One thing that helps me to maintain outcome independence is to be self-entertained and manufacture situations where I win both ways.

So for your condom routine it could be like

Shes into it - great, setup a date, get the notch
Shes not - you get to laugh it off and learn what doesn't work.

Post: #17

Sometimes I think guys make the mistake of excusing bad game by telling themselves they're "outcome independent." It's fine to try new things out and see how it goes, but don't do something deliberately foolish just because you can't think of anything else to do.

Honestly, the expired condom thing could have been a funny thing to do (though probably not in this case, judging by her previous reaction), but when you started saying shit about telling her you have the genes for making people lick their fingers, I have to confess I wasn't thinking to myself, "Wow, man, this guy has the outcome independence thing nailed down flat." lol

I think birthday cat hit it on the head with this one - you're overthinking and overgaming. If I were you I'd keep it simple. Stop by the store and buy something again. Pretend like the condom thing never happened. Flirt with her like a normal, confident guy and if she seems receptive like she initially did last time around, ask her out and get her number.

There's really no reason to make this seduction stuff so complicated.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #18

(06-27-2018 06:08 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Sometimes I think guys make the mistake of excusing bad game by telling themselves they're "outcome independent." It's fine to try new things out and see how it goes, but don't do something deliberately foolish just because you can't think of anything else to do.

Honestly, the expired condom thing could have been a funny thing to do (though probably not in this case, judging by her previous reaction), but when you started saying shit about telling her you have the genes for making people lick their fingers, I have to confess I wasn't thinking to myself, "Wow, man, this guy has the outcome independence thing nailed down flat." lol

I think birthday cat hit it on the head with this one - you're overthinking and overgaming. If I were you I'd keep it simple. Stop by the store and buy something again. Pretend like the condom thing never happened. Flirt with her like a normal, confident guy and if she seems receptive like she initially did last time around, ask her out and get her number.

There's really no reason to make this seduction stuff so complicated.

Yes, agreed with the gaming vets here. It's very easy to overgame and give off too much a player vibe. When a girl likes you, which in this case is very obvious, since she was flirting back, you don't have to "game" her. Be confident, flirty, always be leading the interaction, pull a little back when necessary.

There's many sets in which a girl appeared receptive, but I lost them because I overgamed her.