Post: #1

Not sad about her leaving cuz I realized I turned beta cuck while with her and I’m happy to be back in the game.

But she won’t return the ring and I’m filing a small claims suit to get it back.

1. It’s completely classless to not return an engagement ring if you break it off right?

2. How do I win this thing? Never been to court before. RVF legal minds where you at?

Post: #2

Keep in mind I have no legal background nor formation.

To me, when you Give an object to someone, you can't have it back, even if that person left you or insulted you.
Take it as a life lesson, don't make the same mistake again.

Welcome back to the dating scene, have fun friend.

Post: #3

@Latan actually a conditional gift must be returned if the conditions upon which the gift was given no longer hold true.

Engagement rings must be returned legally in almost every state.

I did basic research before I filed I know the law is on my side I just want tactics to win in court

Post: #4

^ Dude just forget about it. This court shit will drain your mental and emotional energy to recoup 2-3k?. Focus on your new $ and new girls.

Post: #5

I am not sure about USA, but here in Latvia if you give a gift of Jewelry while in relationship and then that relationship breaks, the law states that such gifts are to be given back. One of my friends was in this situation and he got the gold earrings he gave to a woman back. In his case trough the woman gave them back, just due to knowing the law. I am not sure it would pay off to sue her for keeping them if she would not cooperate.

It's a wise thing to always keep receipts of all expensive things you buy including jewelry.

It's a dumb and beta thing to give gifts of jewelry trough, unless you are very rich. Only give gifts you can afford to not care about later.

Post: #6

My ex-gf, the first one whom I was well and truly in love with, owes me 500$ for a plane ticket and has my favorite blazer that's worth close to that. Being young and strapped for cash at the time I tried getting the stuff back for a few weeks and it drained me. So, I just said "momentary beta bux" learned my lesson, and moved on (as hard as it is to do).

Post: #7

The old custom, usually recognized by law, is that the ring is collateral against the slut-shame damages of being rejected after publicly announcing your engagement and having to find another man as damaged goods.

Some states have changed things around, and I don't know what state you're in, but make sure you have a clear chain of evidence that "here is how I am proving how much this ring is worth, here is how I am proving that this is why I gave it to her, and here is how I am proving that she is keeping it". Bring the relevant statute or a printout of the controlling case in case the judge isn't familiar with it, although they should be. You want a receipt, some evidence of the engagement afterwards (emails, SMS, even an announcement in the family newsletter, whatever), and her refusal to return it with an implicit admission that she has it.

She'll probably try to claim it was an unconditional gift so showing the intent to marry may be important. Small claims usually cannot do anything but award money, and won't be able to give you the ring back.

Post: #8

(07-06-2018 09:13 AM)Enoch Wrote:  ^ Dude just forget about it. This court shit will drain your mental and emotional energy to recoup 2-3k?. Focus on your new $ and new girls.

This. How much did you spend on the ring? Lawyers start at $250 an hour, and they never bill you for less than an hour, even if it's just to write a simple letter.

Cost of an engagement ring is a huge shit test for men, if she insists on something expensive or doesn't like something less than $500, then it's a sign to dump her.

Post: #9

If he goes to small claims court, he won't need a lawyer. A paralegal can walk him through the filing process and help him with the forms. That should cost OP about $150-$200. If the ring is worth $2-3k, it might be worth it.

Post: #10

(07-06-2018 09:56 AM)C-Note Wrote:  If he goes to small claims court, he won't need a lawyer. A paralegal can walk him through the filing process and help him with the forms. That should cost OP about $150-$200. If the ring is worth $2-3k, it might be worth it.

You are assuming she hasn't already sold it and is uncollectable.

As as business owner I have spent my fair share of time in small claims and the opposing party is typically a no-show with no assets (which is why they didn't pay in the first place)

Post: #11

You can consider it payment for the lessons you learned, assuming you never get them back.

Post: #12

Consider a lawful payment for you not having to deal with her ever again.

Post: #13

Best to claim she stole it from you. It will be an easy win and she will get a criminal conviction!

Post: #14

Good advice. I have receipts and texts and photos all showing the evidence you are describing.

My state is clear that engagement rings are conditional gifts, and conditional gifts are awarded to whoever is "at fault" in breaking the engagement.

I have text message evidence that she was the one who left (basically ghosted), so the evidence is there.

(07-06-2018 09:42 AM)Jetset Wrote:  The old custom, usually recognized by law, is that the ring is collateral against the slut-shame damages of being rejected after publicly announcing your engagement and having to find another man as damaged goods.

Some states have changed things around, and I don't know what state you're in, but make sure you have a clear chain of evidence that "here is how I am proving how much this ring is worth, here is how I am proving that this is why I gave it to her, and here is how I am proving that she is keeping it". Bring the relevant statute or a printout of the controlling case in case the judge isn't familiar with it, although they should be. You want a receipt, some evidence of the engagement afterwards (emails, SMS, even an announcement in the family newsletter, whatever), and her refusal to return it with an implicit admission that she has it.

She'll probably try to claim it was an unconditional gift so showing the intent to marry may be important. Small claims usually cannot do anything but award money, and won't be able to give you the ring back.

Post: #15

(07-06-2018 09:51 AM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 09:13 AM)Enoch Wrote:  ^ Dude just forget about it. This court shit will drain your mental and emotional energy to recoup 2-3k?. Focus on your new $ and new girls.

This. How much did you spend on the ring? Lawyers start at $250 an hour, and they never bill you for less than an hour, even if it's just to write a simple letter.

Cost of an engagement ring is a huge shit test for men, if she insists on something expensive or doesn't like something less than $500, then it's a sign to dump her.

Yup lesson learned. It was $6K. I don't want a lawyer it's small claims court I'm looking to represent myself. Small claims court it's rare to get a lawyer involved.

Post: #16

(07-06-2018 09:59 AM)Enoch Wrote:  You are assuming she hasn't already sold it and is uncollectable.

As as business owner I have spent my fair share of time in small claims and the opposing party is typically a no-show with no assets (which is why they didn't pay in the first place)

I'd rather have the $$ value anyway rather than the ring back, so this situation is better.

You can always collect by garnering wages I think.

Post: #17

(07-06-2018 10:13 AM)AznMarkZuckerberg Wrote:  Good advice. I have receipts and texts and photos all showing the evidence you are describing.

My state is clear that engagement rings are conditional gifts, and conditional gifts are awarded to whoever is "at fault" in breaking the engagement.

I have text message evidence that she was the one who left (basically ghosted), so the evidence is there.

(07-06-2018 09:42 AM)Jetset Wrote:  The old custom, usually recognized by law, is that the ring is collateral against the slut-shame damages of being rejected after publicly announcing your engagement and having to find another man as damaged goods.

Some states have changed things around, and I don't know what state you're in, but make sure you have a clear chain of evidence that "here is how I am proving how much this ring is worth, here is how I am proving that this is why I gave it to her, and here is how I am proving that she is keeping it". Bring the relevant statute or a printout of the controlling case in case the judge isn't familiar with it, although they should be. You want a receipt, some evidence of the engagement afterwards (emails, SMS, even an announcement in the family newsletter, whatever), and her refusal to return it with an implicit admission that she has it.

She'll probably try to claim it was an unconditional gift so showing the intent to marry may be important. Small claims usually cannot do anything but award money, and won't be able to give you the ring back.

"Fault" is a fact intensive legal question.

Who is to say that you are not at fault for neglecting her emotional needs?

I strongly advise you to drop it but you need to do what is right for you.

Post: #18

I already filed. She is dodging the process server. But I think I can get a court order to leave documents at her place.

(07-06-2018 09:56 AM)C-Note Wrote:  If he goes to small claims court, he won't need a lawyer. A paralegal can walk him through the filing process and help him with the forms. That should cost OP about $150-$200. If the ring is worth $2-3k, it might be worth it.

Post: #19

(07-06-2018 10:15 AM)AznMarkZuckerberg Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 09:59 AM)Enoch Wrote:  You are assuming she hasn't already sold it and is uncollectable.

As as business owner I have spent my fair share of time in small claims and the opposing party is typically a no-show with no assets (which is why they didn't pay in the first place)

I'd rather have the $$ value anyway rather than the ring back, so this situation is better.

You can always collect by garnering wages I think.

Getting a judgement means that you have to demonstrate the right to collect.

In order to have the right to collect you must demonstrate that she is solely at fault for breaking the (unwritten) agreement.

EDIT: I see you area already in process. Best of luck.

Post: #20

Is there a family member that you can reach out to, even in a formal way to whom you can show the relevant statutes in your state and reiterate your intention to see the claim through?

I reckon most women would think that they could keep it; having a third party explain the consequences and potential costs of dragging things out may resolve the problem quickly and cheaply.

Post: #21

Collateral damage. Charge it to the game playa.

Post: #22

I hear where you guys are coming from in terms of dropping it. I thought about it and really for me This isn’t stressful it’s kinda fun to see how things play out. If I really felt held back by this I wouldn’t do it.

I really like confrontation and winning (I’m in business) she knows that about me. I know that about myself. So tbh dropping this and letting it go would be the beta move in my mind since I wouldn’t be true to who I am.

I’m open to being talked out of it for logical reasons but it isn’t really affecting my ability to move on at all

Post: #23

(07-06-2018 10:15 AM)Enoch Wrote:  "Fault" is a fact intensive legal question.

Who is to say that you are not at fault for neglecting her emotional needs?

I strongly advise you to drop it but you need to do what is right for you.

Fault isn't always an issue to begin with, but ultimately, a shitty marriage is no obstacle to being married. She's either willing to perform or she isn't.

Even then, the beauty of small claims court is that the standard of evidence is left lower and the judge won't have time for this shit because it's 10:15 and the auto mechanic suing his twenty deadbeats for that quarter is scheduled at 10:30.

$10 says she's stupid and probably won't show up, then will cry about how unfair the default judgment is.

Post: #24

@saweep family ignoring calls and texts

Ghosted by the whole clan it would seem

I’ve talked to my girlfriends about this all of them said they would return it. Shows no class to keep it really

Post: #25

@saweep that’s the outcome I am hoping for. Easy peeezy