Post: #1

I came across this video tonight and I'de thought that I would share it with you guys. This marine has a thick southern accent, which is no problem for me but might be difficult to understand for our non-American viewers. Therefore, I have quoted everything that this amazing man has said, feel free to read along while you listen to the video if you prefer.

Most military veterans who saw combat do not like to talk about it, and understandably so. That being said, everybody (whether you've experienced war or not) is free to chime in.

I've often wondered whether or not I could kill somebody. Like this marine talks about, I was raised a Christian. There's definitely a dilemma there, no matter how evil the enemy is. Could I kill? Would I be able to perform in a firefight or would I freeze up?

Those are often questions I ask myself and I hope that I will never have to answer them.

This video, with his accent, is one of the most poetic things that I have ever heard. This gentleman truly has a gift with words.

Quote:He did something, he knew better. He had more time to counter than me. Uh, you approach a bunker, you throw a grenade in your hand and you're shooting at him, then you look in. But he was cold and he was moving, and the bunker opened and he was like right there. And he did this and he shot him right in the head.

Bam.

You got three kinds of people from what I can discern, that, in combat. When you get your first kill, you, you, its some people, it makes them, almost sick, physically ill, they really can't deal with it, I mean it's like.

Then at the other extreme, you have those people who, who get that rush. And, whew. And when you kill, you get this rush. It is, it is the supreme, power act. It, it um, you know it almost gives you a God complex. And and and some guys when they do it, they like it.

In the middle, you got the guys who, who get the, get the rush, but they fight with the, the moral conflict. All right. When you raised, all your life in you raised in the church and you go to Sunday school every Sunday and you go to church and you know the 10 commandments and you know thou shall not kill that hey, there ain't no subtitle, ain't no footnote to it it's just, point blank and so that's drilled into you.

Then you in the military, and your job is to kill. And when you, when you do it, if if you not on one of those extremes, you in the middle, you know it's wrong but you failed (felt?) it.

As I come across the top I hear phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. It sounded like a steel mosquito. And it was a sniper. but he had missed me. Right. And of course i got low and I took off. but, that, that, shot, to hear around, so close, that, you know, you didn't hear the shot out, bam! What you hear, you heard the round as it passed your head. and, it's, the only sound that i can think of it sounds like a steel mosquito, that goes phewwwwwwwwww. And, and if you don't defecate on yourself, you, you get out of the area.

You don't, you don't have time to think about dying. Very rarely do you think about dying. We used to say "attitude check" and everybody would say "fuck it". You say, this is what you have to say to yourself, "If I die, I won't know nothing about it."

And then you, you go. You know. You, you can't be, after your first firefight, after your first 30 days, you don't think about dying, about you getting killed, or you getting hurt, you think about killing the enemy.

Then in that last 30 days, when, when it's almost time to go home, is when you, you know, you're like "damn, what a short time". And that's when you get, so cautious, and you stop moving off from instinct, and you stop moving off from training, and you just, nervous because you don't want to get killed in your last 30 days, that's when you get hit.

Post: #2

Too many thoughts going through my head right now. I guess it's a conversation best had over drinks. Thanks for the post.

Post: #3

The likelihood is that, far from not being up to the job, the OP will be horrified at how quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly he does respond when the time comes to do so.

Post: #4

It's a question I avoid answering with people I don't really know and trust 100%. Coming from the wrong person it can be a prickish question. You can normally tell if the inquisitor is honest and curious or just looking for a thrill or reaction.

(07-27-2018 07:27 AM)Nordwand Wrote:  The likelihood is that, far from not being up to the job, the OP will be horrified at how quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly he does respond when the time comes to do so.

And if he doesn't it could cost him, or worse his team their lives.

Post: #5

(07-27-2018 07:27 AM)Nordwand Wrote:  The likelihood is that, far from not being up to the job, the OP will be horrified at how quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly he does respond when the time comes to do so.

I'd have to say the opposite, unless he's already displayed the tendencies to do so or say a child of his was in danger, most people don't resemble what you are saying at all.

Post: #6

In Europe at some point in the not to distant future, I expect many of us in Europe will have to.

Post: #7

(07-27-2018 10:54 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(07-27-2018 07:27 AM)Nordwand Wrote:  The likelihood is that, far from not being up to the job, the OP will be horrified at how quickly, efficiently and ruthlessly he does respond when the time comes to do so.

I'd have to say the opposite, unless he's already displayed the tendencies to do so or say a child of his was in danger, most people don't resemble what you are saying at all.

In my case and in many cases, I believe it's one of those things that you just never know until you experience it. I know from my buddies who have joined various branches of the military that your leaders do train you up and get you to the point where you're supposed to be acting on instinct, and not necessarily thinking that the guy in front of you has a family to go back home to just like you do.

But even so, it's like the marine talked about in the video, for most people there's always going to be a middle ground where your job duty to kill and the moral/religious conflict comes into play.

What I really liked about this video was just how authentic this gentleman was. The part where he talks about the snipers bullet just barely missing his head and the marine says "and if you don't defecate on yourself, you move on". That is some real shit right there, no pun intended.

I can't even begin to imagine the adrenaline that must have been pumping through the marine's veins when he took off running after the sniper had barely missed him.

Post: #8

What's it like killing someone isn't really the question that will bring a veteran to his knees. Very few even think about that.

The real question is, "What's it like seeing someone you love be killed and not being able to save him."

That's when things go silent and the tears start flowing.

Post: #9

(07-27-2018 05:36 PM)Contagion Wrote:  In my case and in many cases, I believe it's one of those things that you just never know until you experience it. I know from my buddies who have joined various branches of the military that your leaders do train you up and get you to the point where you're supposed to be acting on instinct, and not necessarily thinking that the guy in front of you has a family to go back home to just like you do.

But even so, it's like the marine talked about in the video, for most people there's always going to be a middle ground where your job duty to kill and the moral/religious conflict comes into play.

So we have a second hand account.

Rather than going off some halfcocked notion of what a "rush" it would be I'd suggest looking into combat psychology and how many men don't even aim at the enemy until it's clear their buddies are about to be in danger.

Assuming you're from the state's I'd say enjoy the fact you don't have to think about that, but if you're really curious about the experience you always have the option to join up and get first hand experience.

Post: #10

Beautiful video and beautiful man. Thank you for posting.

Post: #11

(07-27-2018 06:59 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(07-27-2018 05:36 PM)Contagion Wrote:  In my case and in many cases, I believe it's one of those things that you just never know until you experience it. I know from my buddies who have joined various branches of the military that your leaders do train you up and get you to the point where you're supposed to be acting on instinct, and not necessarily thinking that the guy in front of you has a family to go back home to just like you do.

But even so, it's like the marine talked about in the video, for most people there's always going to be a middle ground where your job duty to kill and the moral/religious conflict comes into play.

So we have a second hand account.

Rather than going off some halfcocked notion of what a "rush" it would be I'd suggest looking into combat psychology and how many men don't even aim at the enemy until it's clear their buddies are about to be in danger.

Assuming you're from the state's I'd say enjoy the fact you don't have to think about that, but if you're really curious about the experience you always have the option to join up and get first hand experience.

At least OP could have made a little search on google :

Quote:On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society is a book by Dave Grossman exploring the psychology of the act of killing, and the military and law enforcement establishments' attempt to understand and deal with the consequences of killing.

The book is on my reading list and available for free with a small internet search, enjoy yourself op

Post: #12

(07-27-2018 06:27 PM)LINUX Wrote:  What's it like killing someone isn't really the question that will bring a veteran to his knees. Very few even think about that.

The real question is, "What's it like seeing someone you love be killed and not being able to save him."

That's when things go silent and the tears start flowing.

My grandfather would never talk about WW2 but the only story he ever told was about how he was in the Middle East fighting and the company pastor next to him was shot and killed. That would be enough to shake a man to his core I would say. He used to say something along the lines of ‘ if a man of god can be shot and killed what chance have I?’

I have so much respect for that generation.

Post: #13

There's a reason they train you to engage dark human shaped yet otherwise faceless & fleeting targets.

Instill those reactions.

Post: #14

This is definitely a topic you can´t say anything about, until you experience it.

On one hand, I read a study that said, that a lot of soldiers during WWII were intentionally missinig, when shooting towards enemy. On the other hand, you can think of such conflicts like Balkan war, where much worse things than shooting people were commited.

One thing I would say is sure - big part of society are some kind of psychopaths. I think we can talk about decades of percents. And those are probably that group veteran was talking about. When the chance comes, they will do really bad things.

I think there´s big difference between symetrical and asymetrical conflict.
In symetrical conflict, the bad guys are probably just normal guys, like you. They got order and had to fight. And in this case, it´s probably that moment, when you think about the face of enemy you are supposed to shoot.
This is the moment, when war propaganda has it´s place, because it has to convince masses, that it´s okay to kill the enemy, because he is devil. Think of propaganda against Germans during WWII, against Asad army, against Putin. People were/are brainwashed and forced to take all the German soldiers, all the Asad brave soldiers (actually heroes of our time) or Russians as the devil himself. Otherwise, they are just the same guys as you.

Asymetrical conflict is something different. Your enemy is probably the guy who decided to run into hills, so he could do bad things to you and you friends or your people. They don´t fight fairly and it´s probably easier to see them as your enemy.

I was in military, but never was in combat. But I was thinking about, that it could come to point, when I would be forced to shoot someone. But the same I feel, when I am out. There´s not any change in my mindset, maybe I feel that situation is even more likely to come. I am from Europe and bad times are coming. Generally, just have a look what conflict happened past 30 years. And it was just after disintegration of USSR. Now, environment in much more unstable, imagine upcoming 30 years.

Post: #15

My Grandfather hated talking about the war, and hated the war - or so we were told.

But he talked about the war being wrong to him, that Christians should not be killing Christians like that. He said the end of days will be the middle east, and he hoped that we would not be the ones to get involved in that mess, but that it was inevitable and should have been dealt with during or instead of WW2.

When he passed my cousin got his trunk. In it we found a bunch of photos of the war. Many of them he looked happy, riding around on his Harley and in some on a bicycle with a pretty Dutch girl on the back and a picnic basket. He was over there for 5 years as he stayed an extra year in Holland helping with re building. He talked of seeing the Statue of Liberty and how every man on the ship was openly weeping, praying, hugging and singing.

Not once did he ever talk about killing or death. He also cried a lot in his last years, not weeping but a single choking sob. Usually when seeing images of war.

Post: #16

(07-31-2018 09:06 PM)Laner Wrote:  not weeping but a single choking sob. Usually when seeing images of war.

Literally a fact. I can't say much more really.

Post: #17

"The most noble fate a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the desolation of war." - Robert Heinlein.

Makes you think.