Post: #1

I've just sold all my little bit of Amazon for a tidy profit, as well as some Apple, but still hold over 100 shares
aapl and have for years. I'm considering that Google looks like a potentially good buy.

It's easy to, and I often do, make fun of left wing jokers who think they are "making a difference" by similarly declaring that in their perspective on ethical investing they must eschew tobacco, big oil, big agriculture, child labor. Recently those types of "ethical investing" categories are getting even more expansive, filtering in for bullshit like % women in executive positions, low carbon emissions, etc.

Is buying and supporting these evil, subversive, culture destroying big tech stocks unethical, immoral and bad for society? Saying my few thousand bucks doesn't affect the market or change what these companies are doing seems reasonable, but that is just the exact same argument everyone uses about literally every minor immoral act they commit in this day and age that has cumulatively led to the downfall of our culture and society...

Can I say that an extra few thousand bucks and economic power in my pocket - a right wing, free speech loving, strong families kinda guy - is better than those same dollars in the pocket of some communist teacher's union pension fund (for example)? At least I can be sure that the money is ultimately spent in the "correct" way, to raise a strong family and support a strong community and buy from ethical enterprises. But is it dirty money?

Post: #2

Depends on:

-whether you think your investment will make any significant difference to that company's impact on the world
-whether you think that impact will be positive or negative
-how that investment compares 'ethically' to your other options
-how your ethics work. Do you think every action you take should represent your values (regardless of effect size), or do you take a more pragmatic view

Most people vastly overestimate their own individual impact on the world (especially westerners). Very few people make any kind of macro scratch with their actions or investments.

My opinion: objectively a few thousand dollars here or there makes no difference whatsoever to the grand scheme of things. There are titanic waves that shape the world, and a rain droplet doesn't affect that.

I still wouldn't invest in companies whose mission/values I fundamentally don't like - but I wouldn't kid myself that I'm making a difference or being 'ethical', unless the sum in question was 9 figures+.

Post: #3

(08-20-2018 08:31 AM)christpuncher Wrote:  subversive, culture destroying big tech stocks

You have to first make the case that big tech is subversive and culture-destroying.

Note that without big tech you wouldn't have a forum like this in which to express your distaste for big tech. I would argue that you benefit from big tech in ways you simply take for granted while you paint with a broad, accusatory brush. The world exists in shades of gray.

Post: #4

I would not invest in APPL due to health effects of smartphones.

Smartphone use has been linked to learning difficulties, mental health issues, suicide, depression. The open letter from Apple shareholders have more specific discussion: https://thinkdifferentlyaboutkids.com/letter/?acc=1.

I am not saying it's "right" or "wrong". I just don't want the blood on my hands. There are so many other ways to make a $.

Post: #5

Good points, and of course companies aren't "all bad", like Google for example. But also the historical "good" a company has done is now in the past and shouldn't let you look at a company in a good light if it is presently and in the future doing "bad".
But there are infinite numbers of ways to slice it, of course. So is that an argument that it's ok to invest in a company that is, in your estimation, "doing bad"?

Perhaps a question to ask is: Are you more powerful a force as an investor or a consumer? Is $1 worth of stock purchased equal to $1 of that same company's product purchased? If it's less, as I suspect, then one could argue that purchasing the stock of the unethical company, and the product of the ethical company, is the optimum use of your dollars.

Post: #6

I'd argue that one individual is nowhere close to a powerful force - investing or consuming - unless you're talking about 9 figures+. Impact is negligible, not worth worrying about. NASDAQ sees something like $200bn traded per day.

Post: #7

Good luck finding only companies that are truly ethical on all levels.

Money does not care as an investment.

As for your own individual consumer behavior - boycotts is something that I support. But I may boycott McDonald's privately, but would not mind operating a location as a franchisee.

Post: #8

Investing on the secondary market gives your money to other investors, not the company.

Post: #9

I feel this forum software is more a product of small tech, not big tech. Big tech is pretty much corrupt ( & also often far-left). Lets support more ethical small tech companies instead. And use their software instead of big tech.

Post: #10

What 456 said is correct. Unless you’re buying it on the primary markets they themselves don’t get the money.

If you have to ask what the primary market is then I guarantee you’re not participating in it.


That said I would suggest it might be completely ethical to invest. I think the idea of running an exclusively traditionalist private equity fund is an intriguiging proposal and one that very could easily have some proof of success given how frequently “go woke, go broke” holds true.

Post: #11

I believe Silicon Valley is really not a good industry. Silicon Valley AKA San Fransisco is probably one of the most pro-homosexual, pro-mass immigration and pro-liberal places on the face of the planet. Whenever I see anyone addicted to technology whether it be video games or Tinder, I usually see them saying things that are insanely far left. When most people relied on analog devices like the radio or TV in the 1950s this was definitely not the case. America still was traditionalist back then: we did not tolerate homosexuality, we did not tolerate celebrity marriages like Tiger Woods and Elin or Kim and Kanye, and we did not tolerate feminism. Once a society allows these things to be accepted it creates a domino effect that can only be explained as a dumbing down of the American public. We need to return back to the era when men worked for 50 hours a week and women cooked and tended to the children.

I know I would be willing to make these sacrifices, but I don't know about many of my younger peers. Sadly, you can count a lot of members in my own family that are this way. My mom and brother are addicted to their tablet, and we have tons of electronics we don't use laying around the house. They have multiple different video streaming devices as well as Amazon Prime, Netflix and hundreds of cable channels we don't see or watch! This can only be described as overwhelmingly stupid! Heck, you could send me off to the coast of Greece or Italy or any sane part of America, and you could make me live as a farmer or fisherman with no cable TV, and I would still find a way to be happy!