Post: #1

This morning I get to my office, and one of the companies in my building is doing a real estate class for progressive millennials.

The men are wearing ill fitting suits with backpacks and sneakers. Yes, suits with backpacks and sneakers. They look like children trying to look like adults.

The women look like they just rolled out of bed, with visible piercings, clothes that have dog / cat hair all over them, etc. Disgusting.

Apparently dress codes are the patriarchy:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2018/10/mak...-friendly/

Let me be straight here. As someone who owns a business, my opinion is twofold...

1. I cannot take anyone seriously who does not know how to dress themselves in the morning. You want to sell me services or advice? And you're wearing sneakers in a suit that is two times too big for you? Check, please.

2. More importantly, my clients will not take you seriously looking like that. Cargo pants, a blazer, and headphones do not make you look like someone who is competent at their job. As a professional, a key component of mine is to inspire confidence in our clients. That means looking good at all times, not having stains on your shirt, wearing clothes that fit, and looking the part. Is it arbitrary? Sure. I'd rather wear a sweatshirt, shorts, and sandals on most days because it's comfortable. But if I show up to a meeting with a new client like that they're going to think I'm a bum.

But apparently the feminist movement is moving to ban dress codes because they are "ableist" and anti-fat. Now you're supposed to be able to show up to work in a wrinkled shirt with stains on it that doesn't fit.

Good Lord.

Post: #2

T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶y̶ ̶f̶e̶m̶i̶n̶i̶s̶t̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶i̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e "On the workplace's feminists' failure"

Post: #3

Or as the feminists would say; Why the workplace has failed women!

Women, even generally kind and honest ones, tend to have a hard time taking 100% responsibility for their lives. They really do depend upon men to keep them sharp and on their toes for the most part.

Millennials as a whole can't dress for crap. It isn't actually that hard to outdress them and look like you're worth doing business with. I agree with you. You want to do business with people who look and smell like money, not bums.

Post: #4

When you realize that almost half of corporate jobs nowadays are completely useless, make-believe and created to support a feminist-driven society, then feminists got it made pretty big.

Nowhere in human history such a large number of incompetent people could have been granted so much power and survive for so long. In an even remotely competitive environment the vast majority of women would never make it and would weed themselves out before they got fire. Not in ours. Even a startup has pressure for diversity points today.

They will not fail, they will not get fired, they will abuse their "girls power" to create the dreaded workplace politics that make all redpill man hates a corporate job.

I guess in your field of work competition is real, but it's like 5% of the work market. More power to you, but the vast majority of us who have to deal with incompetent feminists every fucking day since they are everywhere working administrative jobs, it kinda suck balls.

Post: #5

(10-03-2018 01:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  When you realize that almost half of corporate jobs nowadays are completely useless, make-believe and created to support a feminist-driven society, then feminists got it made pretty big.

Nowhere in human history such a large number of incompetent people could have been granted so much power and survive for so long. In an even remotely competitive environment the vast majority of women would never make it and would weed themselves out before they got fire. Not in ours. Even a startup has pressure for diversity points today.

They will not fail, they will not get fired, they will abuse their "girls power" to create the dreaded workplace politics that make all redpill man hates a corporate job.

I guess in your field of work competition is real, but it's like 5% of the work market. More power to you, but the vast majority of us who have to deal with incompetent feminists every fucking day since they are everywhere working administrative jobs, it kinda suck balls.

Well, let me give you an example...

I have two jury trials coming up this month.

Normally I rock a beard, along with a polo shirt and shorts if I'm not meeting with clients. Apple Watch.

However, juries don't trust men with beards. So I shaved my face and got a fresh haircut. While at trial, I will be wearing a pair of glasses (I don't actually need them) and a "traditional" watch. My suits (very plain navy blue) are custom fitted (you can get them cheap off Indochino), along with a white shirt and decent ties. Black dress shoes (Nordstrom Rack, holla!), and none of those gay ass "quirky" socks.

Do I "like" dressing like this? Not really, but that's how juries expect lawyers to look.

I could buck the patriarchy, but I'd be doing my clients a disservice.

If feminist lawyers want to show up to trial with nose rings, blue hair, and suits with dog hair all over them, that's fine. But the jurors are going to judge them accordingly.

I could not have anyone work for me that dresses / looks like shit. It would scare my clients off. Simply looking the part and showing up on time is half the battle.

Post: #6

It doesn't help that millennial icons like Mark Zuckerberg always show up at speaking events wearing casual clothes.

Post: #7

"Fat femmes and other people with “nonconforming” bodies get especially fucked over in the dress code department because we have to work harder and spend more to find things that fit. We have to be careful that it’s adequately covering us up in ways thinner people do not have to consider."

Yeah, and I'm short, meaning I can't buy shit off the rack otherwise the inseam looks retarded ("OMG!! He said retarded!!"). I generally have to buy custom fitted clothes, which cost the same amount of money as stuff off the rack and actually fits me correctly.

Awful.

"Katie Tastrom is an activist, writer, and lawyer. She writes about living with chronic illnesses, disability justice, fatness, parenting, queerness, bodies, and other stuff. She lives in Syracuse, NY with her four kids and amazing partner. She also watches a lot of TV."



I don't watch TV, except for Philly sports.

Maybe instead of rallying against dress codes, you should stop watching so much TV and go outside?

Post: #8

In the end, unless forced to by government regulation, private business will always be guided by the almighty dollar and will hire what is actually good for business, not what people want to be good.
These poor millennial snowflakes will then be left wondering why they can't get a decent job anywhere despite their degree in women's studies.

I used to manage a guy who was very competent but everything about him came across as lazy. He was always overdue for a hair cut, his clothes looked cheap and never fit him correctly, always being way too baggy.
I once put him up to speak at a conference and my boss came to me and said "are you sure? He doesn't present well", and that was the end of that.
It was also, among other things, a very limiting factor on his career.

(10-03-2018 03:24 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  "Fat femmes and other people with “nonconforming” bodies get especially fucked over in the dress code department because we have to work harder and spend more to find things that fit. We have to be careful that it’s adequately covering us up in ways thinner people do not have to consider."

Yeah, and I'm short, meaning I can't buy shit off the rack otherwise the inseam looks retarded ("OMG!! He said retarded!!"). I generally have to buy custom fitted clothes, which cost the same amount of money as stuff off the rack and actually fits me correctly.

Awful.

I hate this kind of whining crap from fatties, etc, like no one else has a body shape that is hard to find clothes for. Not to mention clothes companies these days have very much adapted for the fatties, have you seen the max size of women's clothes these days!

Like Hank I have a tough body shape (short, wide shoulders, narrow hips, broad lats) and have to get anything that isn't stretchy tailored or custom made to fit. I never bitch about it, that's just life and you play the hand you're dealt.

Post: #9

(10-03-2018 01:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  When you realize that almost half of corporate jobs nowadays are completely useless, make-believe and created to support a feminist-driven society, then feminists got it made pretty big.

Nowhere in human history such a large number of incompetent people could have been granted so much power and survive for so long. In an even remotely competitive environment the vast majority of women would never make it and would weed themselves out before they got fire. Not in ours. Even a startup has pressure for diversity points today.

They will not fail, they will not get fired, they will abuse their "girls power" to create the dreaded workplace politics that make all redpill man hates a corporate job.

I guess in your field of work competition is real, but it's like 5% of the work market. More power to you, but the vast majority of us who have to deal with incompetent feminists every fucking day since they are everywhere working administrative jobs, it kinda suck balls.

Government jobs are even worse. I mean a large number of governement organizations are either pointless or actively counter productive, never mind the competency of the people who work in them.

I don't understand why many people don't understand that the reason governments have to borrow so much much money is to either pay people not to work. i.e welfare, or pay them to do pointless busy work. In fact, as I say, if it was just busy work for it's own sake at least that would keep them contained, but there are large armies of civil servants who's only roll in life is a to interfere in a negative way with with the few people who are actually productive.

I just looked at someone doing planning permission to build a new house and they have had to submit and archeology report, a wildlife report, a arborculturist report and several other pieces of BS paper work to ask for permission to build a small house in a field. The drag factor against productive people to keep the leeches in work is huge.

Going back to the original point, I noticed that women dressed really badly in the office over 10 years ago (before i left the corporate world). Funnily enough this was working in IT, where most of the people were guys and fairly geeky. But to be honest nearly all of them dressed pretty well or at least made an effort to the best of their abilities.

The women however (non techie and mostly moronically incompetent project managers and such), often used to dress like absolute shit with the kind of clothes that would not look out of place at your local wall mart, or geographical equivalent (Asda!). There were a couple that dressed okay but they were the exception rather than the rule.

The good fitting man's suit will never go out of fashion. The basic design has been round a hundred years or more and still looks the best if worn well. Always has and always will.

Post: #10

This is the problem with these fat feminists...

Anything that seems like a challenge -- making money, losing a few pounds, ironing your clothes, figuring out how to use stain remover, getting a haircut, etc. is now another sign of "the patriarchy".

What's sad is that none of this stuff is actually hard. It probably took more energy to write that stupid article than to pull out the ironing board, or throw a little bit of stain remover and baking soda on her shirt to remove the cheesesteak grease.

According to the feminists, soon we'll all show up to work when we feel like it, and then spend the entire day "building relationships", and getting paid for our "emotions", instead of doing the mundane stuff that isn't interesting but needs to get done. Personally, I don't "like" writing legal briefs, mailing letters, sending invoices, organizing trial binders, printing postage, PDFing documents, or any of that stuff. I don't like waking up at 6am, putting on a suit, and going to court only to have a 5 minute routine status conference that should have been done over the phone.

But that's part of the job and why I have nice things.

Post: #11

The suit with sneaker look is a Yom Kippur thing. Perhaps they are all Jews and forgot when Yom Kippur was?

Post: #12

Can I suggest dark brown shoes with the navy suits. Apparently very common in Italy, and I think it does work. Don't forget a matching belt.

Post: #13

(10-03-2018 11:22 AM)Nordwand Wrote:  Can I suggest dark brown shoes with the navy suits. Apparently very common in Italy, and I think it does work. Don't forget a matching belt.

I have brown shoes and a matching brown belt. In my opinion, it does look better, but it also comes off as "too modern" for jury trials.

If I'm out socializing, that is what I wear.

Post: #14

Post: #15

Post: #16

Maybe one day I will write a full post about this. But, if you're a professional, this is my advice...

- Always meet with new clients in a suit and tie. Once you know them, you can be less formal. My first meeting is always suited up, but after clients are usually fine seeing me in nice shorts and a polo.
- You can get fitted suits very cheap now. My preference is Indochino, mostly because they have a physical location here in Philly. The suits are around $300 and look great. Fitted suits look way better than off the rack, even if they are cheap. I load up on cheap suits. As long as they fit well, you'll look fantastic.
- Always carry a briefcase with a suit; never a backpack. I do not like shoulder straps. My preference is Saddleback Leather's thin front pocket briefcase. Filson looks good. But even a $30 laptop bag from Staples is better than a backpack. Backpacks look retarded with a suit. Leather looks the best, but anything is better than a backpack. You can wear backpacks with casual clothing -- my everyday carry is my jiu jitsu bag.
- White dress shirts. Honestly, no one can tell if you're wearing Van Heusen or Brooks Brothers (though better shirts last longer). Load up on white dress shirts, even cheap ones. French cuff is even better. Launder them at the dry cleaner, it's like $1 a shirt and way easier than ironing.
- Fresh ties. Even ties that cost you $8 from Ross look better than an old beat up tie.
- Good shoes are worth the money. You can get them at Nordstrom Rack. Personally, I like Allen Edmonds. If they can't be resoled, they're not worth the money. Get a pair of black and brown, along with a pair of strapped shoes and loafers.
- Belt should match your shoes. Black shoes - black belt. Brown shoes - brown belt.
- Cheeky socks are for fags. Just get basic Goldtoe. If you feel the need for colorful striped socks, go be gay somewhere else.
- Tie bars and cufflinks make you look like a baller. They're cheap, too. Pocket squares are easy.
- Get a watch that looks nice. Day to day, I wear an Apple Watch (the Nike white one, because it's breathable) with LTE because it tracks my activity levels, it's easy to do talk to text, and syncs to my earphones (meaning I don't have to have my cellphone with me to listen to music). However, I have a nice looking watch (cost was about $1k, but you can get them for like $20), that I wear when I'm playing dress up.
- Stains make you look like a slob. If you get a stain and can't get it out of your shirt, just get rid of it. This applies to t-shirts, dress shirts, polo shirts, anything. You can pick up decent stuff at Marshall's, Ross, Nordstrom Rack, etc. and no one can tell the difference. My polo shirts are all Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger and didn't cost much. Once they look old or beat up I just get rid of them.

Post: #17

I'm wondering if this sort of stuff will drive people to start dressing up for work, at least in situations where they are visiting or dealing with customers and clients. if only to indicate that you're not one of those crazy people.

Post: #18

(10-03-2018 01:54 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  I'm wondering if this sort of stuff will drive people to start dressing up for work, at least in situations where they are visiting or dealing with customers and clients. if only to indicate that you're not one of those crazy people.

You can definitely differentiate yourself at work by wearing clothes that fit, are dry cleaned, don't have stains on them, and not showing any visible tattoos, piercings, or having dyed hair. It takes only a modicum of effort, and not a lot of money. You can have a fantastic looking wardrobe from Indochino, Nordstrom Rack, Ross Dress for Less, TJ Maxx, and Marshalls.

However, all the "wokes" think it's okay to show up and meet clients looking like your side gig is a bassist in a punk rock band. Get one suit, get dog hair all over it, and wear the same thing everyday. If anyone comments, that's racist, sexist, ableist, fat shaming, patriarchy, and I have a disability that makes me eat cheesesteaks everyday for lunch.

Hell, talk politics while you're at it, too. Bitch to people you don't know about Trump, Kav, and the patriarchy. Value signal. So what if you don't know the new potential client?

That's fine as a bartender.

Not so much working in professional services.

Post: #19

(10-03-2018 01:59 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 01:54 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  I'm wondering if this sort of stuff will drive people to start dressing up for work, at least in situations where they are visiting or dealing with customers and clients. if only to indicate that you're not one of those crazy people.

You can definitely differentiate yourself at work by wearing clothes that fit, are dry cleaned, don't have stains on them, and not showing any visible tattoos, piercings, or having dyed hair. It takes only a modicum of effort, and not a lot of money. You can have a fantastic looking wardrobe from Indochino, Nordstrom Rack, Ross Dress for Less, TJ Maxx, and Marshalls.

However, all the "wokes" think it's okay to show up and meet clients looking like your side gig is a bassist in a punk rock band. Get one suit, get dog hair all over it, and wear the same thing everyday. If anyone comments, that's racist, sexist, ableist, fat shaming, patriarchy, and I have a disability that makes me eat cheesesteaks everyday for lunch.

Hell, talk politics while you're at it, too. Bitch to people you don't know about Trump, Kav, and the patriarchy. Value signal. So what if you don't know the new potential client?

That's fine as a bartender.

Not so much working in professional services.

Like how normal people dress in the workplace.

The "woke" people are nuts and should treated as though they are nuts.

Post: #20

One thing that I saw when I was working tax season one year was that one of the CPA's had a suit hung up behind the door. If they need to dress for anything important, they will have one at the ready at all times.

Post: #21

@HankMoody

Quote:The women look like they just rolled out of bed, with visible piercings, clothes that have dog / cat hair all over them, etc. Disgusting.

Do female attorneys show up in court like that? Don't juries find it annoying, the colored hair, the slovenliness, the slutty dress, and the clanking bracelets?

Seems like it would not only create a bad impression, but distract from the case. Instead of listening to the facts, they are watching the attorney's chin, waiting for the little ball of sweat to drop.

Post: #22

(10-03-2018 02:45 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  @HankMoody

Quote:The women look like they just rolled out of bed, with visible piercings, clothes that have dog / cat hair all over them, etc. Disgusting.

Do female attorneys show up in court like that? Don't juries find it annoying, the colored hair, the slovenliness, the slutty dress, and the clanking bracelets?

Seems like it would not only create a bad impression, but distract from the case. Instead of listening to the facts, they are watching the attorney's chin, waiting for the little ball of sweat to drop.

Yes, in Philadelphia they do. This is a very "woke" city, so female attorneys assume they can show up to court looking "woke" and all juries will sympathize with them.

They also have a tendency to get loud, obnoxious, point fingers, and get emotional to the point of being annoying. Juries hate it.

What they don't realize is that juries are comprised of people who are not happy about having to take a few days off of work to hear your case, only to make $7 a day. All the piercings, the blue hair, the wrinkled suits, dog fur, jewelry, tattoos... it's all very "woke" but a total distraction. Even if they're liberal, they usually will set aside "social justice" and "woke" norms to try and understand the facts of the case.

You don't want a jury spending their time thinking about "Why didn't that lawyer get a haircut and dry clean their suit?" You want them thinking about the facts of your case.

When on trial, I wear a fresh pressed white shirt, blue / yellow / red / pink tie, navy blue suit, black shoes, and normal socks. I shave my face and put on glasses. Nothing too "stylish." My friends are like "wow, you actually look like a lawyer."

This way I'm not a distraction, and I'm not hurting my client.

Post: #23

(10-03-2018 03:02 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 02:45 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  @HankMoody

Quote:The women look like they just rolled out of bed, with visible piercings, clothes that have dog / cat hair all over them, etc. Disgusting.

Do female attorneys show up in court like that? Don't juries find it annoying, the colored hair, the slovenliness, the slutty dress, and the clanking bracelets?

Seems like it would not only create a bad impression, but distract from the case. Instead of listening to the facts, they are watching the attorney's chin, waiting for the little ball of sweat to drop.

Yes, in Philadelphia they do. This is a very "woke" city, so female attorneys assume they can show up to court looking "woke" and all juries will sympathize with them.

They also have a tendency to get loud, obnoxious, point fingers, and get emotional to the point of being annoying. Juries hate it.

What they don't realize is that juries are comprised of people who are not happy about having to take a few days off of work to hear your case, only to make $7 a day. All the piercings, the blue hair, the wrinkled suits, dog fur, jewelry, tattoos... it's all very "woke" but a total distraction. Even if they're liberal, they usually will set aside "social justice" and "woke" norms to try and understand the facts of the case.

You don't want a jury spending their time thinking about "Why didn't that lawyer get a haircut and dry clean their suit?" You want them thinking about the facts of your case.

When on trial, I wear a fresh pressed white shirt, blue / yellow / red / pink tie, navy blue suit, black shoes, and normal socks. I shave my face and put on glasses. Nothing too "stylish." My friends are like "wow, you actually look like a lawyer."

This way I'm not a distraction, and I'm not hurting my client.

Well, times have changed. When I got out of college in the mid 80's, I went, along with a friend who was graduating from law school, to a talk given by a deputy attorney for the state of California.

I thought it was going to be about finer aspects of the law, but all she did was talk about the things you are talking about, how to be taken seriously and how not to distract from the case.

It sounded like superfluous fashion advice at the time, but now I guess not.

Post: #24

(10-03-2018 03:24 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  "Katie Tastrom is an activist, writer, and lawyer. She writes about living with chronic illnesses, disability justice, fatness, parenting, queerness, bodies, and other stuff. She lives in Syracuse, NY with her four kids and amazing partner. She also watches a lot of TV."

[img]revolting fatbody[/img]

The doctor(s) who IVF'd her should lose her license.

Or the bureaucrats that let these """people""" adopt four children should lose their jobs, and have those kids taken away.
Seeing as she is a disgusting hamplanet fembot (but I repeat myself), I'd say """she""" probably went the adoption route.

Post: #25

How important are ties, outside of the legal environment? I've started to find them distasteful, probably from being back in Calgary.

I'd love to hear more stories about Single Female Lawyers.