Post: #1

Gents,

I feel I must post this in the Newbie Forum because this situation has completely knocked me off my game, so to speak. I’ve seen this girl three times and have been shut down every time when it comes to physical escalation, so this girl just either be completely playing me or has the strongest anti-slut defense I’ve ever seen, or both. Any advice/analysis would much much appreciated because I’m really weirded out by the whole situation.

Me: 38 year old dude with approx 30 notches in last 3 years, all from SA game.
Her: 27 year old half Asian hottie with fake tits, probably a 9 and easily the hottest girl I’ve ever had a serious chance with. Just shy of 20k instagram followers but supposedly not a party girl (dubious)

We met through SA, where she claimed to want to meet a “nice girl” after tiring of dating assholes. Also claims that I’m the only guy she’s met off the site, and I can conformed that she has deactivated her account.

First “date”: she came straight over to my place for a glass of wine, but had to leave after about an hour because her roommate was moving out the next morning (a true story). Light kino and I kissed her at one point but she pretty much shut me down when I tried to go further, asked me if other girls slept with me on the first date (I answered yes, truthfully) and then left.

Second “date” about a week later: we went out for a casual dinner and some drinks (the original plan was to chill at my place but she asked if we could go get some food so we went to Jack Astor’s, a fast casual place). Her two friends were in the neighborhood and she asked if they could join, and I foolishly said yes. We made a bit of a scene in the restaurant (her friends are solid HB 8/9 party girls, lots of crude comments all around and at least one blatant girl to girl tit squeeze) and she hit the booze hard and allegedly had to leave suddenly because she had to puke. I wasn’t terribly put out because I had to leave to meet friends anyway but it all seemed a bit suspicious. A slightly awkward kiss on the way out, she made a point of walking ahead of her friends so we’d have a little alone time but it was closed mouth and nothing more.

I sent her a text the day after, no response. About 2 weeks later she sends me a pic of her broken phone and we make plans to do a photoshoot at my place (I’m a hobbyist photographer, usually lingerie/implied nude stuff).

Third “date”: she brings a few outfits, sort of sexy but classy vibe. We do the shoot and eat a charcuterie plate I made up quickly. She says she can’t drink because she’s on antibiotics for strep throat, and is a little stressed due to just getting laid off that day. More light kino but she packs up and leaves after the shoot is done because it’s getting late (and clearly she’s trying to avoid intimacy). I call her out on it and she says she’s a good girl and that we should go on a proper date.

I’ve now been on three quasi-dates with this girl and have gotten almost nowhere physically. When I do touch her (touching her hair, shoulder, waist, light stuff) she doesn’t object or anything like that, but all three times we’ve kissed it was clear that she wasn’t comfortable with anything more than a quick peck. Unlike most semi-pros or rinsers on SA she’s never asked me for a penny or buy her anything other than a few drinks so I can’t fogure out what her angle might be. She knows I want to fuck her and doesn’t seem to object to the idea, but keeps telling me she’s a good girl (whatever that means).

What the hell is going on and how to do I get out of this purgatory?

Post: #2

Ya gettin played. A semi-pro not putting out 3 dates in c'mon, the fuck is going on here. She's spinning you a tale that she's a good girl (IE a high value woman that's not promiscuous or too used up). Her friends were party girls? Guess what so is she. I don't know what the end goal but I am familiar with the game she's playing. She's trying to secure emotional investment from you before she lets you get it in. Guess why she's doing that? Because when she has your emotional investment and she lets you get it in and it's good and you waited so long itll be that much easier to secure fiscal/time/attention investments from you.

She's gaming you and probably getting dick on the side. You're banging other girls right? You fucking better be. Even if you're not, next time (do yourself a favor and not let there be a next time) she shuts that pussy down get on your phone, shoot some texts off, make a call and tell her she has to go. She'll know what's going on

I wouldn't see a girl 3 times and didn't fuck that paid for MY shit.

Post: #3

Yes.

Post: #4

(10-29-2018 09:44 PM)goodington Wrote:  I’ve now been on three quasi-dates with this girl and have gotten almost nowhere physically. When I do touch her (touching her hair, shoulder, waist, light stuff) she doesn’t object or anything like that, but all three times we’ve kissed it was clear that she wasn’t comfortable with anything more than a quick peck. Unlike most semi-pros or rinsers on SA she’s never asked me for a penny or buy her anything other than a few drinks so I can’t fogure out what her angle might be. She knows I want to fuck her and doesn’t seem to object to the idea, but keeps telling me she’s a good girl (whatever that means).
What the hell is going on and how to do I get out of this purgatory?

To be honest with you... I can't tell what's going on in this situation. Usually when a girl is playing you she has an angle.

My immediate thought when reading this story is that she wants a serious relationship with you. Unless you want the same thing... that might mean you fucked up somewhere.

She is playing hard to get.
She is making you a time priority.
She is introducing you to her friends.
She desperately wants you to think she is a "good girl".
She showed you that she canceled her SA account.

If you want to crack this nut... my advice is to increase her comfort level. You may need to be a bit patient and pretend to fall in love with her. It could take a month to six weeks. Do you really want to wait that long?

Post: #5

I tend to agree, although I don’t believe she’s actually a semi pro unless she’s pulling some sort of next level shit with multiple accounts because she literally signed up, met me and then deleted her account a few weeks later. Paid for her own Uber to and from my place tonight, knows I don’t do any kind of p4p...

My suspicion is more that she just isn’t attracted to me but is trying to convince herself that she should be, but maybe that’s also me deluding myself.

How can I force the issue? She doesn’t seem to care if I’m texting or seeing other girls

Post: #6

PS I’m married and she knows. In fact she seems to only date married guys because “all the good ones are taken”

Post: #7

(10-29-2018 10:17 PM)goodington Wrote:  I tend to agree, although I don’t believe she’s actually a semi pro unless she’s pulling some sort of next level shit with multiple accounts because she literally signed up, met me and then deleted her account a few weeks later. Paid for her own Uber to and from my place tonight, knows I don’t do any kind of p4p...

My suspicion is more that she just isn’t attracted to me but is trying to convince herself that she should be, but maybe that’s also me deluding myself.

How can I force the issue? She doesn’t seem to care if I’m texting or seeing other girls

She's on SA, she's a semi-pro. Why are you defending this girl? Why are you thinking that YOU are the problem here. I told you how to force the issue, it's make a break time if you see her again for the 4th time.

(10-29-2018 10:18 PM)goodington Wrote:  PS I’m married and she knows. In fact she seems to only date married guys because “all the good ones are taken”

Huge red flag, do yourself a favor and abort. That's extra leverage. I can tell your game isn't super tight no offense - you're setting yourself up for extortion

Post: #8

(10-29-2018 10:17 PM)goodington Wrote:  I tend to agree, although I don’t believe she’s actually a semi pro unless she’s pulling some sort of next level shit with multiple accounts because she literally signed up, met me and then deleted her account a few weeks later. Paid for her own Uber to and from my place tonight, knows I don’t do any kind of p4p...
My suspicion is more that she just isn’t attracted to me but is trying to convince herself that she should be, but maybe that’s also me deluding myself.
How can I force the issue? She doesn’t seem to care if I’m texting or seeing other girls

How do you force the issue? Get her alone and begin to escalate. Kiss her neck first then go for her lips... hands all over her body.... just act like a volcano of passion on the verge of eruption. If she responds by pulling away... then ask her WTF? Tell her that she makes you burn and that you have no interest in games. If she continues to put you off then send her away!

This may cause her to think about it and come back for sex. OR... she will leave you alone and stop stringing you along.

(10-29-2018 10:18 PM)goodington Wrote:  PS I’m married and she knows. In fact she seems to only date married guys because “all the good ones are taken”

Hmmm... I've known girls who became addicted to long passionate affairs. If you go down this path you may wind up with a bunny boiler on your hands.

Post: #9

(10-29-2018 10:13 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Usually when a girl is playing you she has an angle.

I disagree. Even though she's on SA shes still a woman, and women play guys without "angles" all the fucking time. It's what they do.

If you want to make the argument that they always need an angle, you have to consider the creature we're talking about here and it's not always money they're after. They live to feel like they're wanted, and to string along a guy they see as a chump. That shit is crack to them. They also live to put said guys on blast. (as evidenced by the petabytes worth of screenshots of tinder convos / texts floating around on the internet)

What I'm saying is what looks like no angle to you (no money has exchanged hands yet) is still very much serving her as she sees it. It's naive to think that because she hasn't asked for cold hard cash and hasn't put out, that means she's after a relationship. Looking at the available evidence I'd say that's really fucking unlikely. A girl that wants a guy to commit to her won't act like this at all.

@OP

What has she invested?

You can save yourself so much time on shit like this if you just ask yourself "am i getting what I want here? Am i getting CLOSER to getting what I want with each interaction?"

If the answer is "no" it doesn't matter the reason.

Post: #10

(10-29-2018 09:44 PM)goodington Wrote:  I’ve now been on three quasi-dates with this girl and have gotten almost nowhere physically. When I do touch her (touching her hair, shoulder, waist, light stuff) she doesn’t object or anything like that, but all three times we’ve kissed it was clear that she wasn’t comfortable with anything more than a quick peck. Unlike most semi-pros or rinsers on SA she’s never asked me for a penny or buy her anything other than a few drinks so I can’t fogure out what her angle might be. She knows I want to fuck her and doesn’t seem to object to the idea, but keeps telling me she’s a good girl (whatever that means).

What the hell is going on and how to do I get out of this purgatory?

The best case interpretation is she's in her own purgatory identifying you as a prize and doesn't know how to be good without completely shutting down her sexuality. Hamsters are going to hamster.

Very likely is the classic friend zone where the best case scenario met your clear indications of interest and it turns out she's both very socially isolated while being sufficiently sexually satisfied that she needs a friend.

I suspect the best move is taking her out with the guys and girls to play the social proof game. Pack up your outcome indifference and take her out with your friend. Maybe she lets you in, but if she is as hot as described, her companionship should ample social proof to get a girl 0.5-1.5 points less hot than her in bed any night the two of you go out together.

Post: #11

(10-30-2018 12:13 AM)BBinger Wrote:  The best case interpretation is she's in her own purgatory identifying you as a prize and doesn't know how to be good without completely shutting down her sexuality. Hamsters are going to hamster.

What girl has ever acted like this? Honestly the rest of the post sounds to me like the stuff of an overactive (male hamster) imagination.

Women don't have much self control, in my experience. That's why you escalate until you hit a wall, and then try again. And in the case where she actually wants you, you'll progress further each time. But if it's obvious shes giving the bare minimum and taking full advantage of the fact that you want to fuck her (as the OP suggests) then its a sure fire sign she's not into it and further investment in her is a waste of time and energy. Worse yet it will make the OP more emotionally invested the longer she strings him along.

Girls will 'peck' or even full on makeout with you when they have NO INTENTION IN THE WORLD of ever fucking you. You need to understand that. Why? Same reason she will give her phone # to any Tom Dick or Harry...because it's EASIER than saying "no" and making things awkward. Much better to give it to them and never respond.

If you have to ask the question the OP is asking, the answer is yes.

Occum's razor with THOTs is the way to go.

And as for this:

Quote:Pack up your outcome indifference and take her out with your friend. Maybe she lets you in, but if she is as hot as described, her companionship should ample social proof to get a girl 0.5-1.5 points less hot than her in bed any night the two of you go out together.

This only works when it's clear she wants you or is interested in you publicly, and lets everyone know. Just hanging with a girl in your mixed group does jack shit for you otherwise. People can tell the difference.

Post: #12

(10-30-2018 12:33 AM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:13 AM)BBinger Wrote:  The best case interpretation is she's in her own purgatory identifying you as a prize and doesn't know how to be good without completely shutting down her sexuality. Hamsters are going to hamster.

What girl has ever acted like this? Honestly the rest of the post sounds to me like the stuff of an overactive (male hamster) imagination.

It's not common or likely, but I am trying to do the most charitable reading possible of the situation as OP presents it. It may be an Elizabeth Warren 1024 to 1, but the many ways girls maladapt themselves socially in this social media age offers OP that Elizabeth Warren of a chance.

Quote:Women don't have much self control, in my experience. That's why you escalate until you hit a wall, and then try again. And in the case where she actually wants you, you'll progress further each time. But if it's obvious shes giving the bare minimum and taking full advantage of the fact that you want to fuck her (as the OP suggests) then its a sure fire sign she's not into it and further investment in her is a waste of time and energy. Worse yet it will make the OP more emotionally invested the longer she strings him along.

Girls will 'peck' or even full on makeout with you when they have NO INTENTION IN THE WORLD of ever fucking you. You need to understand that. Why? Same reason she will give her phone # to any Tom Dick or Harry...because it's EASIER than saying "no" and making things awkward. Much better to give it to them and never respond.

If you have to ask the question the OP is asking, the answer is yes.

Occum's razor with THOTs is the way to go.

And as for this:

Quote:Pack up your outcome indifference and take her out with your friend. Maybe she lets you in, but if she is as hot as described, her companionship should ample social proof to get a girl 0.5-1.5 points less hot than her in bed any night the two of you go out together.

This only works when it's clear she wants you or is interested in you publicly, and lets everyone know. Just hanging with a girl in your mixed group does jack shit for you otherwise. People can tell the difference.
[/quote]

Mixed group hangout tends to do jack shit unless OP's read that there is some residual interest survives this test. It is a low risk test that risks only OP's time while offering the strong chance of confirming her disinterest. The girl's looks have clearly hooked OP and he has to get out of it with grace bang or not. Dumping the chick as a time sink is easier and cheaper, but if OP wants a concrete answer this is it.

Post: #13

You met a girl on SA, of course you're getting played, it's just a matter of how much.

You've basically got a hooker who doesn't put out and that's the mentality you should take to it, would you keep going back to that when it's put in the plainest terms of what it is?

Simple fact is that you're married and she knows. Only two outcomes in her mind here are possible... "best case" she's a total nutjob who thinks it's a LTR and that she will steal you away and that's why she's withholding on you. Alternative is she is gaining leverage for maximum exploitation of this situation (be it long term sugar daddy or straight up extortion). You've got a girl who is whoring herself out so you know that money is a priority for her so either way you know her target.

Don't put her on a pedestal.

Post: #14

29. Fake tits. SA sugar baby. Instagram thot. Friends are all party girls.
My friend she is a prostitute. I don't mean that in the sense that she rents out her pussy by the hour. I mean in the traditional sense that all men and all cultures have always known about. She's a whore and playing you for a simp who will bankroll her long-term, perhaps even under cover of marriage (if you're wealthy enough). Play accordingly.

Post: #15

(10-29-2018 09:44 PM)goodington Wrote:  Second “date” about a week later: we went out for a casual dinner and some drinks (the original plan was to chill at my place but she asked if we could go get some food so we went to Jack Astor’s, a fast casual place). Her two friends were in the neighborhood and she asked if they could join, and I foolishly said yes. We made a bit of a scene in the restaurant (her friends are solid HB 8/9 party girls, lots of crude comments all around and at least one blatant girl to girl tit squeeze) and she hit the booze hard and allegedly had to leave suddenly because she had to puke.

So much to unpack here but I'll limit my observations to this

So your plan was to "chill at your place" (because you planned to bang her there) but she asked to "go get some food" (because she had no intention of banging you).

Her two friends "were in the area"...really? You think that was happenstance?

Answer this honestly...Who paid the tab?

My guess is you did...just like they planned it

Id also bet that a fly on the bangler's wall would of heard a version of this conversation earlier

Bangler 1 "Hey Tiffany what you doing tonight?"

Bangler 2 "Oh nothing just watching Dynasty and updating my IG, why"

Bangler 1 "Oh fuck that, lets meet up later. I got a Splenda Daddy on the hook for at least drinks maybe dinner. "

Bangler 2 "Oh ok. Ill call Shondra"

Bangler 1 "Sure. Bring that bitch too"

They probably pull this shit 5 nights a week

SA bangler game recognized



Edit: Only a few reasons a girl on SA wouldn't ask for money

1. She's new to it and just a civilian chick trying it out for excitement

2. Your strength / frame makes it impossible for her to

2. She doesn't believe you have it (real money)...so she'll take what she can get (dinner and drinks)

Post: #16

(10-30-2018 03:37 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  "best case" she's a total nutjob who thinks it's a LTR and that she will steal you away and that's why she's withholding on you.

I suspect this may be the case; the first time she met she basically told me she dumped the last guy she was seeing (also married) because he wasn't attentive enough. Huge red flag, but I'm used to dealing with this sort of girl and I'm willing to deal with it, while taking proper precautions like not letting her know my real name or other personally identifying information. No concern I'll get sucked into anything dangerous, I see this is as a challenge to see if I can deal with all the bullshit and actually get the bang.

Quote: You've got a girl who is whoring herself out so you know that money is a priority for her so either way you know her target.

Don't put her on a pedestal.

As I mentioned, she alleges that she signed up for SA to try it out (one of her friends is a full-on SB) but her account has since been deactivated. She seems to have her own money, or at least enough to pay for her own ubers - usually gold diggers/banglers/rinsers will ask me to pay for an uber right off the bat. She is used to having guys pay for everything and getting nothing in return... bottle service at the club, dinners out, gas for the boat, drugs, etc. Unfortunately this is normal behaviour in certain circles in Toronto; simping is off the charts here. I don't generally engage in that kind of bullshit but if she wants me to meet her friends and have me buy them a round of drinks I'm not going to say no. It was a good chance for me to demonstrate value, gain social proof, show I give zero fucks (I popped a molly at the bar so it would kick in by the time I went to the club, which apparently impressed them), etc.

(10-30-2018 04:29 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  So much to unpack here but I'll limit my observations to this

So your plan was to "chill at your place" (because you planned to bang her there) but she asked to "go get some food" (because she had no intention of banging you).

Her two friends "were in the area"...really? You think that was happenstance?

Answer this honestly...Who paid the tab?

My guess is you did...just like they planned it

SA bangler game recognized

Here's the thing though... is this getting played or simply normalized female behaviour in 2018? I suggest chilling at my place; she has no intention of fucking me so quickly but doesn't want to say no outright so she agrees, then deflects to a bar at the last minute. She's also incapable of making her own decisions, so covertly arranges for me to meet her friends. They order drinks and I'm expected to pay because that's what guys do. She likes me, but her standards are high and ASD is so strong I have to jump through hoops if I ever want to get the bang.

Either way, it seems pretty clear that if I insist on pursuing things with her, I need to plan something with proper logistics so I can get her turned on and escalate hard.

EDIT: To be clear, I do not have oneitis or any emotional investment, but I do like getting what I want and what I want is to bang this girl.

UPDATE: FWIW, after she left my place last night she messaged "Thanks [goodington], you made me feel a little better [about getting laid off]. I like the positivite (sp) advice your (sp) the best xo"

Post: #17

Op read this again

(10-29-2018 11:55 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 10:13 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Usually when a girl is playing you she has an angle.

I disagree. Even though she's on SA shes still a woman, and women play guys without "angles" all the fucking time. It's what they do.

If you want to make the argument that they always need an angle, you have to consider the creature we're talking about here and it's not always money they're after. They live to feel like they're wanted, and to string along a guy they see as a chump. That shit is crack to them. They also live to put said guys on blast. (as evidenced by the petabytes worth of screenshots of tinder convos / texts floating around on the internet)

What I'm saying is what looks like no angle to you (no money has exchanged hands yet) is still very much serving her as she sees it. It's naive to think that because she hasn't asked for cold hard cash and hasn't put out, that means she's after a relationship. Looking at the available evidence I'd say that's really fucking unlikely. A girl that wants a guy to commit to her won't act like this at all.

@OP

What has she invested?

You can save yourself so much time on shit like this if you just ask yourself "am i getting what I want here? Am i getting CLOSER to getting what I want with each interaction?"

If the answer is "no" it doesn't matter the reason.

R o R pretty much nails the dynamic here

Did you bang her last night?

No

You may not have oneitis but you are blinded by her hotness. Youre rationalizing her using you

Prediction

"You make me feel better about being laid off" means the "I need financial help" bomblet is coming very very soon

Post: #18

The fact that she didn't ask for money does not mean that she will not do so.

It is very, very common for a smart girl not to ask for money on the first three dates, however, she most likely will further down the line.

The fact that you're married could mean that she has doubts about you, like you said she may not be that attracted to you. However, there is some level of interest because she showed up for 3 dates and did the lingerie shoot. However the lingerie shoot may have convinced her you're not serious about her and just want to bang. So she may be trying to play out to see if you are serious, ie if you stick around long enough even without getting a bang. Because she's after an LTR, because only in an LTR does she see economic security.

After all she was on SA and her main motivating factor is most likely money. The fact she didn't ask for money on the first three dates does not disprove this. It only means she's smarter than average. She will ask later when you're more invested.

Post: #19

(10-30-2018 10:14 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  R o R pretty much nails the dynamic here

Did you bang her last night?

No

You may not have oneitis but you are blinded by her hotness. Youre rationalizing her using you

Prediction

"You make me feel better about being laid off" means the "I need financial help" bomblet is coming very very soon

I suspect you are correct, and she's trying to turn me into an orbiter and emotional tampon because she likes the validation. That being said, the premise of last night was to do a photoshoot, which we did. She hauled her own ass downtown, got her makeup done professionally, and took an uber back to the burbs. I got some good pics for my photography Instagram account; permanent social proof even if things don't work out. It wasn't a lingerie shoot, she wanted to do more of a fashion style, tight jeans and a frilly blouse (no bra) kind of thing and I was fine with that. My photography style is kind of like classy but sexy, girls love it.

I keep waiting for her to drop the money bomb, that would make it easy to kick her to the curb.

Post: #20

Just curious, between being married and (I'm assuming) being employed, how do you have time for this shit? She's been over to your place twice, how have you coordinated this with your wife not being there? If I were you, my paranoia and fear of being caught would've killed my game.

Three interactions and no serious escalation doesn't sound good, sounds like she knows you're on the hook and is milking it. I'd say give her a freeze out for a couple of days and see how she responds.

EDIT: just read about the photoshoot, at least you got some value out of that for your IG account

Post: #21

SA is big boy game, girls going on there to play fellas and they play the game hard.

PT covered everything in his usual direct manner.

I suggest guys don't go onto SA unless they have tight game because these girls are coming at you like hot cakes.

Learn the lessons from this.

- what does she offer? her pussy
- what do you want? her pussy

result: she holds her pussy hostage

- what does she want? photos and free shit
- what do you offer? photos and free shit (her friends joining is a bonus)

Did you, at any stage, communicate your intentions without verbally saying them? Did you ever flex and show her you can crush that pussy in a blink of an eye and that you're going easy?

No you didn't and if you don't do that from moment #1 she is gonna turn on you like she did.

You gotta turn it around and hold it hostage. It = your photography, your wallet, whatever you're dangling.

You're always dangling some shit. On SA its just more explicit.

She already knows what you want so it's easy for her. If learn how to dangle that shit i.e. GAME, then she will offer her pussy up to you. It's like jedi bartering levels.

All relationships are transactional, you just gotta push the right buttons. With these chicks I will hone the fuck in on their insecurities so they offer it up under the pretense I will make them feel better and it's a 'reward'. They just want that dopamine hit. It's either in the form of your dick or your wallet. You gotta frame it that it's your dick.

The longer I know these 10/50/100k insta chicks, the more dick I become. I push buttons to get reactions because these chicks have a 24/7 choir singing their praises in their pockets. Hook them and then run your shit.

We say in Greek, the more you spit on them, the more they stick to the bottom of your shoe. That's what I do with these hoes.

And anyone who is familiar with my posts, knows I hold women in high regard but there's a certain denomination that you're choosing to play with here and it's a different operating manual completely (within standard deviations of course).

I am fucked up though, I don't cosign the comfort advice in this thread. I actually don't agree with anything past what PT and RhymeOrReason are saying which is a 'next' in it's own way.

This chick will just complicate your life.

You know shes an attention whore. That's one of the biggest red flags. A girl who's pretending to be a woman because she never got enough love when she was growing up. She has insecurities coming out of her ass.

If you put a gun to my head to do something with this chick, I would set up a date at a really fancy place, make her dress up and she can invite her friends if she wants.

Then I would just not show up. Fuck her.

Maybe post some insta stories with other broads at the same time and let her fucking stew.

When she hits me up (if she has the balls to call me out), I would just not respond and send her a pic of a broken phone like a few days later.

Game recognize game.

Let the chumps wasting their data on her feed do this shit. You should be better than that.

And guys have no business on SA unless they're looking to get played and are fine with that OR have tight game.

Post: #22

(10-30-2018 10:47 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  Just curious, between being married and (I'm assuming) being employed, how do you have time for this shit? She's been over to your place twice, how have you coordinated this with your wife not being there? If I were you, my paranoia and fear of being caught would've killed my game.

Three interactions and no serious escalation doesn't sound good, sounds like she knows you're on the hook and is milking it. I'd say give her a freeze out for a couple of days and see how she responds.

When I say "my place" I don't actually mean my home, it's a condo in the city. These three interactions have been spread out over around 2 months... first time I think I said I had a client dinner, second time I was supposed to be at a pre party before the club, and last time I was getting the place ready for a real estate photoshoot. I don't want to reveal too much, but my life is set up so that it's pretty easy for me to coordinate this kind of thing.

Post: #23

(10-30-2018 10:53 AM)Noir Wrote:  Did you, at any stage, communicate your intentions without verbally saying them? Did you ever flex and show her you can crush that pussy in a blink of an eye and that you're going easy?

First, fantastic post and thank you. Second, how do you do this? I've told her a few stories about girls I've fucked and made fun of her for being such a prude, but since she thinks I'm a nice guy I don't really want to go full-on asshole. Maybe I should amp things up a notch, but I also don't want to issue an ultimatum or sound butthurt about not getting laid.

Post: #24

It sounds like youre ok just hanging out with her because you find her so attractive.

The thing is that youre playing "dont scare the cat (pussy) cause its so hot and maybe Ill get to bang it later" ...aka the rationale every chode beta orbiter used to put himself into the friendzone

Here's the thing. Regardless of how you met (via SA in this case) she's still a woman and her attraction "mechanism" is that of every woman. Every minute you spend with her without sexualizing the interaction is killing off any possibility of her being attracted to you. Guaranteed

Only one way to bang her now

At this point Id be super direct and push for sex. Id get her over under whatever pretense that works and escalate caveman style after one glass of wine. If you get resistance then say "hey Im a busy guy and Im an adult. Im not looking for a girl to braid pig tails with. Im looking for a woman to have an adult man woman relationship with"

She'll either comply if she's interested or bring up the money thing. If she brings up the business / money thing thats when you say "Hey Im a business man and I dont make imprudent decisions. I wouldnt buy an expensive car for example without taking it for a test drive" And that test drive is all you'll ever get unless you give her the Mongo jungle fuck of her life and or get control of her feminine brain.

The only way to fuck this cat (pussy) is to risk scaring it away. You keep going deeper down this "platonic" hole and you'll end up feeling like the chump she's playing you for

Post: #25

(10-30-2018 11:10 AM)goodington Wrote:  First, fantastic post and thank you. Second, how do you do this? I've told her a few stories about girls I've fucked and made fun of her for being such a prude, but since she thinks I'm a nice guy I don't really want to go full-on asshole. Maybe I should amp things up a notch, but I also don't want to issue an ultimatum or sound butthurt about not getting laid.

Yeah this is your problem right here. I've been using SA exclusively now for a few months and been meaning to do a write up in the SA thread about my experiences.

And take this from someone who isn't an SA master but as a guy whose has been in similar situations and learned the hard way.

For all SA girls you need a rock-solid dominant frame. Noir wrote an excellent post, but I would disagree slightly that you don't need super tight game as much as you need a super tight frame with these girls. Everything about the relationship needs to be dictated on your terms. From every meeting, to every text message, it all needs to be when and where you want it, and not when and where she wants it.

And you have to be dominant with her, no exceptions. Dominant in that you tell her what to do like a boss or father and she is your fuck-up employee or daughter.

Remember, you can't give these girls an inch or they'll take the whole rope. If she doesn't play ball according to your rules then she's gone, and you need to make this clear to her from the start.

Because I've been there where I didn't have frame and met these girls and did things with these girls on their schedules and according to what was most convenient for them, and got stuck in a quicksand of bullshit and the only way out was to take the loss and move on.

So to salvage this you need to re-establish frame as the dominant person in the relationship. But you need to read Deepdiver's post in the SA thread about how to handle this girl from now on, because he puts it better than I can:

Quote:DeepDiver (Bolded for Emphasis)
Remember on SA you are they paying customer (College Banglers get free Premium Accounts) Its like a Ladies Get in Free Happy Hour... so YOU have to Control FRAME - the moment you let a Flaky 18 Year Old control frame you are cooked. 18YearOlds are notoriously known for responding to random last minute stimuli like a Butterfly to a field of flowers or a Moth to a light at night... meaning she probably got a last minute offer from her besties...

The moment they are too busy for following up with you they have flaked... just NEXT and ignore her for a few weeks anything else is too try hard... You learn that Women especially young ones love to see how much sexual power they have over the men they randomly meet and use Shit Tests to Mind Phuck you and get you to drop control of the frame.

This is why Men have to use compliance Tests - you test them with where and when to meet, last minute after your meetings via text, telling them what to wear at your meets. Handing them a robe at your hotel room and telling them to go freshen up in the Shower, never asking what they like - just Sharing what YOU like. Tell them to pour you some wine the wine you like and brought and after a few glasses picking her up in the Robe and having her straddle you on top telling her to put on the condom you hand her and telling her to guide you into her man trap and ride you like a sex-starved cowgirl - all compliance tests leading up to Consensual Sex where she could back out at any time... sending her the preemptive anti-LMR bangler's remorse false rape claim text - that you really enjoyed your time with her and lets get together again next week making sure she replies in the positive. Then Archive that Text string. This is a properly Frame Controlled SA seduction with a consensual SB.
This is why you keep 3 to 5 plates going at all times and never stop with the compliance tests.

You are the Dominant Alpha and she is the submissive compliant and supportive female - anything else is UNNATURAL and NON-compliance needs to be filtered out asap.