Post: #1

So I'm currently living and working in a high taxed area in Europe, and lately, I been thinking about buying shares and invest more in cryptocurrency.

I work in a decent job that pays well, and all I do is put money on my account and save it. Where I am there isn't any incentive to invest and do something with your saving because it's going to be taxed like crazy.

So am thinking legally setting up a company in a low taxed area in Europe " 1RationalDoc LTD" for instance where I invest in shares, crypto, and online or physical business, and perhaps some real estate from that company. And perhaps as time goes, buy an apartment in that particular country and make it my second home.

Been thinking about Eastern Europe, especially Romania as I been following the Tate brothers on IG lately having a blast over there. I think Andrew maybe moved his business there as well.

Anyone having experience with that?



Has anyone experience with that?

Post: #2

Theoretically, no. This is done quite a bit.

Practically, here are some issues: You open a Ukrainian corp because Ukraine is cool and you like their women. You then go and open a German bank account with the corp and get rejected because Ukraine. Lesson: location matters, do your research.

You are now rich and try to take some money out of the corp, all else equal you will pay your home country's personal tax rate on it. All that trouble and you are still getting tax fucked. Lesson: decide what you really want to do with the money. A corp isn't a magic tax bullet. It's tax deference.

Post: #3

(11-05-2018 05:56 AM)EEnomad Wrote:  Theoretically, no. This is done quite a bit.

Practically, here are some issues: You open a Ukrainian corp because Ukraine is cool and you like their women. You then go and open a German bank account with the corp and get rejected because Ukraine. Lesson: location matters, do your research.

You are now rich and try to take some money out of the corp, all else equal you will pay your home country's personal tax rate on it. All that trouble and you are still getting tax fucked. Lesson: decide what you really want to do with the money. A corp isn't a magic tax bullet. It's tax deference.

I'm currently doing my research on it. Where I am located atm, I know some people open up a holding company abroad first, and then let that open up a daughter company in the country they live. Apparently, there isn't much tax on the profit of the subsidiary company if it gets transferred to the holding company within a certain timeframe. But even then it gets transferred as an "expenses" and other shady ways.

But the thing is I am not looking for all that. Don't intend to start a business. I'm setting that company up for the sole purpose of investment on shares, crypto and perhaps real estate. I just dont like the idea of having my money sitting in the account, and i don't want to do any investment here and then get taxed like hell by this incompetent government that promotes laziness and being on welfare, instead of ambition and entrepreneurship

Post: #4

OP, why not consult an Intentional Tax lawyer? You can do all the research you want but if you are not a lawyer or tax professional by trade, you will be sinking a lot of time in without a benefit.

Post: #5

See: Offshore baking and incorporation datasheet.

If you're living in a EU country for 183+ days a year you are considered a tax resident of that country. You can set up a business in another country, but the government will require tax on whatever income, capital gains come out of it, even if none of that money ever touches your home country. You'll also likely find your country has some laws about people stashing money in a company. If your offshore company is just a shell, general rule would be your government wants the money.

Say you're an affiliate and you earn $250,000 / year, living in Germany for the entire year, but you have a company in Belize and you leave the entire $250,000. If the government find out about that then they'll want a big slice and probably treat it as your personal income.

If you set up a shell company in 0% corporate tax Estonia, your home government will want a slice of the pie, if they find out about it.

In terms of investments, see what the capital gains taxes are in your country. In the UK you can have about £11,700 in capital gains before tax, and the rest is taxed at about 20%.

If you're starting out, unless you have lot of cash you've had lying around for years, you probably won't make the threshold to pay capital gains on your investments.

Offshoring is for three categories of people:

1) nomads, who don't live in one country, really looking at $35,000 bare minimum and the right job
2) people who can establish a presence in a onshore tax haven like The British Virgin Islands, bare minimum of $350,000 in capital
3) the ultra-wealthy who funnel their onshore income through multi-entity trusts to be invested with 0% tax offshore

And only the first two will be generally kosher if your government knows all the details.

Post: #6

(11-05-2018 07:52 AM)Cobra Wrote:  OP, why not consult an Intentional Tax lawyer? You can do all the research you want but if you are not a lawyer or tax professional by trade, you will be sinking a lot of time in without a benefit.

That's actually something I am planning on doing next week. Right now I am just doing a bit research on types of businesses and all that, due to my zero knowledge in anything business related.

Post: #7

(11-05-2018 09:55 AM)gework Wrote:  See: Offshore baking and incorporation datasheet.

If you're living in a EU country for 183+ days a year you are considered a tax resident of that country. You can set up a business in another country, but the government will require tax on whatever income, capital gains come out of it, even if none of that money ever touches your home country. You'll also likely find your country has some laws about people stashing money in a company. If your offshore company is just a shell, general rule would be your government wants the money.

Say you're an affiliate and you earn $250,000 / year, living in Germany for the entire year, but you have a company in Belize and you leave the entire $250,000. If the government find out about that then they'll want a big slice and probably treat it as your personal income.

If you set up a shell company in 0% corporate tax Estonia, your home government will want a slice of the pie, if they find out about it.

In terms of investments, see what the capital gains taxes are in your country. In the UK you can have about £11,700 in capital gains before tax, and the rest is taxed at about 20%.

If you're starting out, unless you have lot of cash you've had lying around for years, you probably won't make the threshold to pay capital gains on your investments.

Offshoring is for three categories of people:

1) nomads, who don't live in one country, really looking at $35,000 bare minimum and the right job
2) people who can establish a presence in a onshore tax haven like The British Virgin Islands, bare minimum of $350,000 in capital
3) the ultra-wealthy who funnel their onshore income through multi-entity trusts to be invested with 0% tax offshore

And only the first two will be generally kosher if your government knows all the details.

Dude thanks for taking the time! That was pretty much informational! I will look into the thread. Thanks!!!

Post: #8

If you set up a company in country x, you probably also want a bank and brokerage account in the same country for the reason s mentioned above. There are certain countries with political risk where I would be uncomfortable deposit in funds

Post: #9

Don't go to Romania.

Use Cayman Islands for company's that invest. Very stable and low hassle. PM me if you need details.

Post: #10

You will face TREMENDOUS difficulty finding a bank who will accept to open a bank account for a company dealing in crypto-currencies (unless you're talking very serious money here).

Actually if anybody knows of a bank who will accept to open a corporate bank account for a company dealing in crypto-currencies, I'd like to know please.

Post: #11

(11-06-2018 10:49 AM)the.king Wrote:  You will face TREMENDOUS difficulty finding a bank who will accept to open a bank account for a company dealing in crypto-currencies (unless you're talking very serious money here).

Good point. My bank does not allow me to send money to crypto exchanges. These offshore banks are careful about getting wound up in money laundering and terrorist financing and they are all leaned on by The Federal Reserve and IRS. You'll probably have to sign a deceleration to the IRS at some point, even if you aren't a US citizen, have no US activities or US dollar holdings.





If you want to buy crypto you need to do it though an intermediary.

Here are a few options after you have your offshrore bank and company:

1) Setup a corporate account with GoldMoney (traded on TSX). Send your money to Goldmoney and you can buy crypto there (ETH, BTC). I'm able to send there, even though my bank blocks funds sent to crypto exchanges. The bank is owned by a GoldMoney investor. You can also get silver or gold plated debit cards from GM, which I'd like to get.



2) Get a WireX BTC/ETC/XRP/LTC/fiat debit card in GBP. The GBP card comes with it's own domestic sort number and account code. I was able to send money to this, stating it was a 'currency exchange'.

3) Setup an OKPay acount. I always used to use this as an intermediary to send to crypto exchanges, but they upped their KYC and I stopped.

4) I've not tried this. Payoneer lets you make transfers to bank accounts. I don't know if it will work to send to an exchange.

Your problem is if it's a recognised exchange, like Bitfinex.

Post: #12

(11-06-2018 12:55 PM)gework Wrote:  1) Setup a corporate account with GoldMoney (traded on TSX). Send your money to Goldmoney and you can buy crypto there (ETH, BTC). I'm able to send there, even though my bank blocks funds sent to crypto exchanges.

Thank you for this excellent recommendation.

Do you happen to know if a company registered in an EU country would be able to open a bank account with Goldmoney? Or is it US/Canadian entities only ?

Post: #13

Contact a GOOD international tax lawyer and pay them WELL - preferably big 4.

Even if you are incorporated offshore in country Y, because you are the sole owner/operator your home country X will likely be able to claim the company's management and control centre of interests is in X, which will land the corporate entity as a tax resident of X (i.e you still need to pay the corporate tax rate of your home country X and fulfill all accounting and reporting requirements, despite being incorporated in country Y).

If you fail to declare this correctly you will get stung when they find you with fines, backpayments and potential jail time depending on the amount of money, jurisdiction, and whether they are looking to make a new example out of someone.

As a note on gework's post, personal tax residence does not == corporate tax residence, there are multiple plausible scenarios in which you could be considered a personal tax resident of country X but with corporate tax residence in country Y.

Another side note, if you are primarily investing in shares, then your company could potentially be classified as passive and there are even more caveats that come with that. You will also have significant issues getting an offshore bank to allow crypto - they are tight on compliance as it is since blood money/launderers use them, combine that with crypto and you are not going to go anywhere fast.

You used to be able to get away with not declaring things and in some cases banks would "forget" to respond to any requests for information, but now CRS/Automatic Exchange of Information is live it means you do have a significant degree of risk playing silly-buggers - not instantly but certainly in the future. You don't want to be lying in bed at night wondering if tomorrow is the day.

General note - taxes are nothing to fuck around with, even more so when you go international, and you should never take advice from strangers on the internet without verifying it with a professional!

In summary, it really doesn't make sense to incorporate overseas unless you're living the nomad life, are hiring top level management there, or are prepared to move there and are NOT involved with crypto.

Post: #14

(11-07-2018 05:10 AM)the.king Wrote:  Do you happen to know if a company registered in an EU country would be able to open a bank account with Goldmoney? Or is it US/Canadian entities only ?

I think so, on the homepage it says they have clients in 150 countries.