Post: #1

I keep getting screwed with girls. Generally I trust easily. I’m also honest, caring, and kind. I used to think it’s just that I’m meeting the wrong girls but it seems like everyone is just extremely self centered and will only care about themselves. Not to go into details but in general I’ll say I’ve been the nice guy.


On the other hand I watch and admire the guys who lie about age, wealth, being single, etc who do so well with girls. They could say they love the girl just to get into her pants for a fling and balance 5 girls at once. Even girls who know they are lying seem to be very into them. Perhaps this is known as being red pill but I just have this moral compass screaming at me to do the opposite.

I never thought I’m a nice person but it seems like my “normal” is just leading me to get taken advantage of. In all honesty it feels like girls are red pill just as much as the guys people see as assholes. I think girls actually feel they can use me just because I’m not popular or good looking? As if I should be thankful they spend time with me asking me to serve them.

Sorry for the rant, I was wondering if anyone had some insight on my dilemma? Thank you.

Post: #2

You shouldn't do anything that is against your values.

At the same time, you should examine your values to see if they are as you think they are.

Being overly nice and kind can hurt you in the long run because it is naive and it shows a lack of love for yourself.

Ask yourself how you treat other people and expect people to treat you that way too.

A lot of times people aren't selfish, just thoughtless, and if you won't even stand up for yourself, why should they do it for you?

This can take a long time, and there is a lot of growth and value in the process.

You sound like you are at the very beginning of a red pill journey.

Take your time and figure it out for yourself.

This forum is a good place to look into it.

Don't just say: Fuck it. I'm evil now.

That's what Batman villains do.

Post: #3

"Being evil" is not like flicking a light switch. Yes everyone is selfish to varying degrees, but don't conflate your weakness with some sense of moral superiority. Whether you realize it or not your lack of self esteem is simply bleeding into your life, dont expect other people to respect you more than you respect yourself....We're animals after all.

Post: #4

On a positive note you don't have to lie about being single.

Post: #5

“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires.”

Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

Post: #6

I can tell already that one of your top problems is over-attachment.

I'm guessing you develop crushes on girls, hang out with them all the time and "game them"... ending up in the friend zone.

You're expecting things from these girls that are far from reality.

The most important - and hardest to learn - facet of game is the concept of "abundance mindset".

You don't see things in terms of abundance. Pussy is scarce to you so you pander to girls that treat you like shit and use you as an emotional tampon in the hopes of them throwing some your way for your troubles.

Sorry to tell you bud, but the world does not work like that. Recognizing that is just the beginning of the journey.

All you can do is improve yourself, strap up your boots and take all that the world has to offer. You can either make a killing in this fucked up world that we live in or let reality beat you into submission and head over to the MGTOW groups.

Post: #7

Really appreciate the advice thank you.

Post: #8

Krauser says something about this in daygame mastery. He talks about delusional self-confidence instead of "evil" or lying but I think the concept is similar. You'll see guys with delusional self-confidence getting girls. What they think/feel is "do X, and girls follow". The trouble is X is only the tip of the iceberg, and those guys subconsciously do the rest of the iceberg. So it cannot be replicated by others, and is unique to certain guys. You have to holistically have your own good game. And that's just good technique and practise and self-acceptance.

Post: #9

A couple of quick reads for you OP:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixt...s-of-poon/

https://www.rooshv.com/5-reasons-your-game-sucks

https://www.rooshv.com/the-9-immutable-laws-of-pick-up

https://www.girlschase.com/content/keepi...hase-women

Post: #10

Thank you both I will read these

Post: #11

(11-12-2018 01:24 PM)Quays2 Wrote:  Generally I trust easily. I’m also honest, caring, and kind.

My view is that trusting easily isn't a good trait, it's liable to be abused not only by potential mates but friends, family, strangers etc. don't be an open book and certainly, don't trust easily.

However I would also say that honesty, caring and being kind are traits you should treasure but they need a counter-balance, you need to be domineering, decisive, has a steely grit of determination and courage to achieve. Essentially, be a leader.

My view is that as long as you hold the aforementioned traits (with others), you should do well, then you just need to gym, dress well and come across as educated and worldly.

Post: #12

What GG said. It has nothing to do with being evil. People are responding to how you treat them. Its very uncomfortable to be placed on a pedastal.

Post: #13

Great advice in this thread. Here's another angle to consider: Perhaps your 'niceness' is because you aren't busy enough. (/thread-43214.html)

(12-16-2014 11:05 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

Quote:Man on a Mission

*Alright, feminists, playtime is over for now. This blog will now return to its regularly scheduled programming.*

The most attractive thing to women is a man on a mission.

How does a man act when he's on a mission?

A man on a mission cares not for any girl's reaction to him. He cares for his mission. Sure, he may want sexual release, but he feels no approach anxiety. To a man focused on a higher mission, approaching girls is like playing with little kids in a sandbox: cute, but ultimately meaningless.

A man on a mission naturally treats women with the aloof alpha attitude and dominant frame that PUAs try to imitate. Picture a guy spending all day striving, sweating and bleeding for a mission, going home with his struggle still on his mind. A girl flakes or gives him some drama, does he even care?

A man on a mission pursues sex and escalates boldly because he doesn't have time to waste. He does not have months to spend, he does not have time to buy seven dinners before a chance at sex. He has shit to do. It's fuck or walk, your choice.

A man on a mission worships no girl. He puts his mission on a pedestal, not his girl.

A man on a mission is impossible to friendzone. He simply doesn't have time to listen to a girl's emotional outpourings.

A man on a mission treats girls with abundance. There are many girls, but only one mission.

A man on a mission has ambition, passion and drive. Anybody who spends time with him can sense this.

A man on a mission is never at a loss for words. He has stories. I was (working on my mission) when...., My friend (who I know from my mission) and I......,

A man on a mission has boundaries. He will not let a girl take up too much of his time or do anything that will jeopardize his mission.

A man on a mission chooses a wife or long term girlfriend carefully. She must complement him and make his home life easier, as he is out living his mission.

A man on a mission does not check his phone every minute to see if that girl from the weekend texted him back. He works on his mission, noticing only when he takes a break that she texted him hours ago.

A man on a mission cannot be rejected by a girl because he derives his self-esteem from how well he is pursuing his mission, not from the actions of anybody else.

A man on a mission finds status, wealth, and fame awaiting for him when he succeeds. This was not his primary motivator but it attracts women nonetheless.

To a guy who can't get laid, shitty game is a symptom, not the disease. The root cause of all neediness, pedestalization, social anxiety, unworthiness, and lack of confidence is not having a mission.

Next time you have a girl problem, ask yourself:

Don't I have something better to do?

The idea is that you don't have to be 'evil,' you just need more important priorities in your life. Then, the effort you put into women and way you're willing to be treated by them will naturally balance with what you find acceptable. Women, being quite 'fluid,' are apt to notice this and work hard to qualify themselves so they can become more important in your life. The natural order of things is that women want to follow a strong leader instead of being the center of your universe (any protestations are shit tests, they don't really want it).

Another good concept to look up is 'covert contracts.' This is when people do something nice and expect the recipient to return the favour because they should know to. However, the recipient usually has no idea at all that something in return was expected. Even if people generally know they should reciprocate, it's much better for your mental health to be upfront with what you're looking for + set boundaries to how much effort you're willing to make. Lastly, never go into an interaction feeling entitled to getting something back in return. This is kind of like the idea of giving with a cheerful spirit as opposed to donating to charity and secretly hoping that God will see your act and reward you as a payment for your 'charity.'

Part of the reason people rag on 'nice guys' is that they often do favours, seemingly out of generosity, but they are secretly expecting sex/intimacy in return. Girls, though many won't admit it, know that most guys who are doing favours for them want sex. This makes them view 'nice guys' as sneaky and dishonest.

Take aways:
1. Have a mission in your life so all your priorities fall into place. As a bonus, women will notice this in your attitude and put in some effort of their own to qualify themselves to you. (Note: don't do this as a 'tactic,' actually have a mission.)

2. It's better to be upfront about your desires instead of being sneaky & hopeful about your desires.

3. Go into your interactions with boundaries on how much effort you'll spend and honestly don't care about the fruits of any effort less than your boundary. I.e. when you give a gift, don't expect something back. If you'll care, it means your gift is too expensive/takes too much effort. Thinking about your boundaries will help you know yourself better, too.

I'd imagine those 3 points would also help a lot in business/general life and not just girls. Best of luck!

Post: #14

You won't solve nothing by "being evil" but adding some evil in your interactions will grant you great amounts of respect.

What I label as evil is not evil per se so b4 Dark Triad shit and other non sense just observe How people gravitate around people who refuse to acknowledge them, How women go running for men who treat them like shit...

There is something about not being good with people...

Post: #15

Some TOP replies in this thread!

...and what's wrong with a bit of balance? You can be a completely dominating force with no emotion or attachment AND give lovely hugs too.

Post: #16

Living like a villian always helps you get laid.

Post: #17

Plato answered this question in Books VIII and IX of the Republic, where Socrates answers Glaucon's and Adeimantus' arguments that it pays more to be unjust than to be just. In short, deceiving people for gain is not worth it because it the price you will have to pay long term for the psychological toll incured by constant lying and deception will not be worth it. Furthermore, being truthful and just brings more pleasure as the person will be happier if he lives in such a way.

So yeah, deceiving women to get the lay may be worth it short term but long term you will suffer.

The Machiavelli quote posted earlier is true, but that doesn't mean you have to be "evil". Also, as others noted, being naive and "nice" won't help you either. Take the red pill and learn game (how to attract women). I disagree with the notion that game is deception. Game teaches you what to do to attract women but that doesn't imply being fake. If you learn game and apply it all the time, you will become a stronger, more alpha person.

Post: #18

Quote:I’m also honest, caring, and kind.

99% of people think they are more honest and kind than most people. They are usually severely deluded. For example, jailed criminals think they are more honest than most people. https://digest.bps.org.uk/2014/02/10/jai...he-public/ You are probably not a jailed criminal but you shouldn’t just assume that you are kinder than others.

Quote:it seems like everyone is just extremely self centered and will only care about themselves

Very few people are evil (in the sense of actively pursuing the misery of others). As Socrates claimed, ‘nobody does wrong knowingly’. Most people are just somewhere on the axis between 100% selfish and some proportion of x% selfish and 1-x% altruistic. Note that the fact that you don’t lie doesn’t make you altruistic; what have you actually done to promote the happiness of others ?

Many people who think they are kind are actually weak. They rationalize their inability to advance their interests under the false pretense of ‘kindness’. Perhaps that is your case, we don’t know.

Quote:On the other hand I watch and admire the guys who lie about age, wealth, being single, etc who do so well with girls.

At least those guys (God curse them) create happiness for the girls. Perhaps you should question your moral system when it discourages making people happy (and making yourself happy, because you sound miserable)

With due respect, you should beware of moralizing stances unless they are backed up by serious ethical reflexion.

Post: #19

What does "evil" mean in this context?

If you're just trying to rack up notches, you'll probably lose a lot of bangs unless you get comfortable telling a few white lies here and there.

Like Deb said, don't do anything that makes you feel bad about yourself, but ask yourself what you want how you can get it. Sometimes to get the things you want (notches) you need to change a bit.

I was having this conversation with NASH a few days ago. You gotta get crushed a bunch to develop a thick skin and the ability to soldier on through discomfort. It absolutely sucks and I think you're going through this right now. You're getting your licks in so that you can become a better player.

If you really want, you will become the guy with 5 girls on speed dial, but you'll probably change as a result. You may not become "evil" but you'll be a bit hardened by all the losses you had to take to get to that point.

Post: #20

Be good to people who have proven themselves worthy, and be indifferent / pragmatic with everyone else, without being evil.

Post: #21

When I was in my 20s things were not abundant. I didn't have the confidence to spin multiple plates. I sought mini LTRs so I could get sex.

Now that I am older things are abundant. I clearly communicate my sexual interest early. I am more honest about what I want.

Tell me,, which is more "evil"?

Post: #22

(11-13-2018 10:32 AM)Hypno Wrote:  When I was in my 20s things were not abundant. I didn't have the confidence to spin multiple plates. I sought mini LTRs so I could get sex.

Now that I am older things are abundant. I clearly communicate my sexual interest early. I am more honest about what I want.

Tell me,, which is more "evil"?

Precisely.

"Evil" is just the conflict inside of you.

What's wrong about fucking a girl who might want more from you? What's wrong with giving a girl the exciting, intense night with an alpha male that she desperately desires?

Your attitude that it is wrong is the only thing that is causing these feelings. It's not your job to offer her emotional support and to be her Romeo. You aren't signing a contract with your dick the moment you fuck her.

Don't save that ho





I don't care if a girl I'm trying to fuck doesn't want to fuck me. After years of game, I realize that if this girl isn't interested in me, there will be another that is.

Consider the worst case scenario: 99.9% of women think you're a disgusting sack of shit they would never sleep with in their life. There are currently 3.73 billion women in the world.

The remaining 0.1% are interested in you. That, my friend, is 3,730,000 women you have a shot at.

As long as you are on top of your game and committed to improving, you're always going to be making progress and feeling great while doing it. It's when you drag yourself through the dirt to beg for a lay and get rejected that you feel wronged by society and women.

Post: #23

Evil does not exist. It is a fictinal construct that only exist in the minds of people.

Quote:Generally I trust easily. I’m also honest, caring, and kind.

These qualities mean nothing. It is sad, I know.

Quote:seems like everyone is just extremely self centered and will only care about themselves.

Yes. Your first priority is yourself. Unless you want to be a holy man.

Eat ot get eaten. Hunter or prey. Your dead is someone else his bread (or meat).

Quote:moral compass screaming at me to do the opposite.

I suffered under this "moral compass" for large part of my life. This "moral compass" is not your own. It has been "educated" into you by other people. Other people who use this to control your behaviours.

Quote:I think girls actually feel they can use me just because I’m not popular or good looking?

"Alpha Fux, Beta Bux"