Post: #1

Men and women are equal.

Quote:
The Dark Realities Women Face Driving for Uber and Lyft

Women speak about on-the-job harassment and assault—and how it affects their paycheck.

Late one night in June, Jody Pagliocco was driving down a long, wooded road in southern Maine. She was working for Uber, and her passenger, a man, was in the front seat. That was unusual —but she hadn’t felt comfortable telling him to get in the back when he opened the front door. She had picked him up from a bar in town, and he was drunk. The road was dark and there was nobody around. Pagliocco was getting uncomfortable.

“He made a joke about not being a serial killer,” Pagliocco said. “Then he started talking about sexual stuff,” and all she could think about was: “What if he tries to grab or touch me?”

Pagliocco drove to the front gates of his house and told the passenger to get out of the car. She was relieved he left, though the incident left her scared and shaken, causing her to stop driving for several days. Soon after she got back on the road, she drove another passenger who she said tried to grab her and kiss her. Pagliocco has only been driving for about half a year, yet of the thousand or so rides that she’s driven for Uber Technologies Inc. and Lyft Inc., she says a few hundred of those have led to inappropriate advances or uncomfortable encounters.

Late one night in June, Jody Pagliocco was driving down a long, wooded road in southern Maine. She was working for Uber, and her passenger, a man, was in the front seat. That was unusual —but she hadn’t felt comfortable telling him to get in the back when he opened the front door. She had picked him up from a bar in town, and he was drunk. The road was dark and there was nobody around. Pagliocco was getting uncomfortable.

“He made a joke about not being a serial killer,” Pagliocco said. “Then he started talking about sexual stuff,” and all she could think about was: “What if he tries to grab or touch me?”

Pagliocco drove to the front gates of his house and told the passenger to get out of the car. She was relieved he left, though the incident left her scared and shaken, causing her to stop driving for several days. Soon after she got back on the road, she drove another passenger who she said tried to grab her and kiss her. Pagliocco has only been driving for about half a year, yet of the thousand or so rides that she’s driven for Uber Technologies Inc. and Lyft Inc., she says a few hundred of those have led to inappropriate advances or uncomfortable encounters.

Experiencing assault and harassment on the job is terrible. And on top of that, it affects her paycheck. After many of those instances, Pagliocco has taken a day, or several days off from driving. Though she prefers to drive late at night when she makes the most money taking people home from bars and events, Pagliocco says after these “unnerving” incidents, she will drive at earlier times of the day, when she makes far less money.

Driving is a full-time job for Pagliocco. She signed onto the services after a cross-country move and mostly drives for Uber. Her daughter had an accident that left her paralyzed, and Pagliocco wanted to be nearer to where she was receiving medical treatment, so she moved from Seattle to Maine. She was having trouble finding full-time work, and driving seemed like a job that allowed her to make her own schedule so she could also care for her daughter.

Uber and Lyft have been hailed as economic saviors, offering flexible work for mothers juggling childcare responsibilities. While the quick pay and autonomous work have drawn people in, many women like Pagliocco who drive for Uber and Lyft say they frequently encounter harassment or assault.

In a private Facebook group for female drivers that’s grown to more than 10,000 members since it was started in 2016, women frequently ask questions, give advice, and share driving stories. Many of the posts include experiences of sexual harassment. In one post, a woman wrote that a passenger grabbed the steering wheel and sexually assaulted her. She called 911 and the passenger was jailed. Another woman wrote that a male passenger slapped and hit her, hurting her back and shoulder. She said she called the police. Another shared a screen shot of a report she made within the Uber app, where she wrote that a rider forcibly kissed her.

Uber and Lyft allow drivers to report incidents in the app or through a 24/7 call line. They’ve also recently added new safety features to the platforms, including the ability to easily call 911 in the app. Uber recently added a feature that allows drivers to share trips with friends and family, a capability that is offered to riders on both platforms.

“Any situation reported to us is something that we take extremely seriously,” said Stephanie Bryson, Uber’s Head of Safety and Consumer Protection Policy. “Uber should be a place where both our riders and our drivers feel comfortable.”

“The safety of the Lyft community is our top priority,” Lyft wrote in a statement. “We do not tolerate harassment or violence on our platform, and such behavior can and does lead to a permanent ban from our service.”

But Harry Campbell, who runs the Rideshare Guy, a popular blog among drivers, says the companies can do more. “Both Uber and Lyft have been extremely innovative when it comes to transforming the rideshare and mobility industry, but there have been areas like safety where they have been a lot more reactive,” he said. “They should put their brainpower and innovation towards safety.”

Zuwena, a 36-year-old in Portland, Ore., started the Facebook group for women drivers after a frightening experience driving for Lyft. She had picked up a drunk man from a bar. He sat in the front seat. As she was driving, he grabbed her arm several times. “My hands were shaking but I told him to get out and that I was grabbing my mace, and I told him to get on the side of the road,” said Zuwena. “My whole night was pretty much done after that.” She called the police and Lyft, who told her that they would deactivate the rider’s account. Zuwena’s last name, and those of a few other women drivers, are being withheld because of concerns over retaliation.

Emily, who is 23 and in school to become a paramedic, started driving for Uber and Lyft in Phoenix, Arizona a year ago, after her mother started working on the platforms. “I feel safer than most women you’d ask,” Emily said. “I’m comfortable with drunk people. They’ll get touchy and make weird comments.” But she’s also had experiences that disturbed her, like the drunk man who masturbated in her car.

Hannah Minter, a driver in Savannah, Georgia, said that the inappropriate encounters she’s had with passengers are what’s keeping her from driving full-time for Uber and Lyft. She is a 24-year-old single mother of two kids. She didn’t finish college, and after her divorce, she began driving for ride-share platforms to supplement her income designing T-shirts and mugs that she sells on Etsy. Minter drives six to ten hours a week at night, when her kids are in bed. She said she frequently encounters passengers who make sexual comments or try to touch her inappropriately.

“Every single time, every day that I drive, every night that I drive, there is at least one questionable experience,” Minter said.

Paul Oyer, a labor economist at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, co-authored a study published earlier this year that found men earn about 7 percent more than women per hour on average on the Uber platform. Oyer worked with Uber and other academics to study a sample of more than one million drivers in the U.S. between January 2015 and March 2017. Oyer found several factors putting women at a disadvantage. They included differences in driving speed, where and when they drove, and how long male and female drivers were staying on the platform.

Oyer found that on average, men were driving longer hours per week and were less likely to quit. That meant they were accumulating more experience, like learning when and where to drive and how to strategically cancel and accept trips, contributing to higher earnings on the platform.

Despite the flexibility advantage, “there’s some other things going on in this platform that make it more attractive for men than for women,” Oyer said. “You could imagine that they [women] don’t feel it’s safe.”

Several women said that after rebuffing a passenger’s advances, they worried about the rider retaliating by giving them a bad rating or erroneously reporting them for a serious infraction like drunk driving. That can lead to a suspension from driving for multiple days, as the platform conducts an investigation.

“For female drivers dealing with advances and people hitting on them, they should be able to say they want to stop the ride, but it’s like they have to let them down gently,” Campbell said. “Drivers don't receive training on how to handle these things.”

Former Uber Chief Executive Officer Travis Kalanick was ousted last year after female employees made allegations that the company did not respond appropriately to sexual harassment. Since then, CEO Dara Khosrowshahi has tried to overhaul the culture and make safety a greater priority of the company, said Bryson, the company’s head of safety.

“We’ve really taken the need to improve to heart,” she said. Uber is working on a transparency report that will show data on reports of sexual assault. The company also eliminated forced arbitration agreements for employees, riders and drivers who make sexual assault or harassment claims against the company. That means instead of resolving any legal claims in an arbitration hearing, people can take those claims to court.

When a driver files a complaint about a passenger because of a safety issue on Uber, it’s flagged to a special team with training on dealing with high-sensitivity incidents, according to Bryson. Depending on the severity, the company will open an investigation to speak with the rider and driver before making a decision on next steps.

Lyft said On Lyft’s app, if a driver or rider rates someone 3 stars or below, they will never be matched with them again, according to a statement from the company. Lyft also said that that it’s announcing 15 new features by the end of this year, many of which focus on driver safety.

Pagliocco’s still driving, but looking for other work. “I loved the flexibility and everything, but the money just isn’t consistent enough,” in addition to dealing with the “sexual harassment stuff,” she said. “I mean, I would much rather have a full-time job.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...r-and-lyft

Post: #2

Women need more empowerment and the Jews will help them!

Post: #3

Maybe that's why they get paid less?

Post: #4

I'd have called for a male Uber driver if I was that drunk guy.

Post: #5

Do you guys ride in the front or the back? I'm 6' 2", and a lot of Ubers don't have much room in back. Even if it's a car with a back seat made for a guy my size, the front passenger seat is often slid all the way back, which tells me the front is the place to sit.

It also depends on the vibe I get from the driver. I have sat in front even in a larger vehicle when the driver seemed friendly and open.

On a different note, I've gotten home late at night from a long, trans-Atlantic flight, and got an Uber on several occasions. Twice I fell asleep in the car for the 45 min ride home, and I woke up and found the driver way off the route to my house, apparently racking up extra miles and minutes on my bill. Now I force myself to stay awake even when I'm very tired and i've been awake 20+ hours.

Post: #6

(12-23-2018 08:08 PM)Thot Leader Wrote:  Maybe that's why they get paid less?

Wage gap is a myth; women don't get paid less for the same work; they simply make less than men on average. This doesn't account for the different occupations, hours worked, etc. That's all the pay gap is.

In the case of uber/lift, they make less because they work less hours and drive slower/less aggressively.

Post: #7

All the paychecks and nice tips, and women are still feeling miserable, powerless and threatened on the job. Women really showed the kitchen and their children that could have been who's boss.

Post: #8

(12-23-2018 10:24 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  Do you guys ride in the front or the back? I'm 6' 2", and a lot of Ubers don't have much room in back. Even if it's a car with a back seat made for a guy my size, the front passenger seat is often slid all the way back, which tells me the front is the place to sit.

It also depends on the vibe I get from the driver. I have sat in front even in a larger vehicle when the driver seemed friendly and open.

On a different note, I've gotten home late at night from a long, trans-Atlantic flight, and got an Uber on several occasions. Twice I fell asleep in the car for the 45 min ride home, and I woke up and found the driver way off the route to my house, apparently racking up extra miles and minutes on my bill. Now I force myself to stay awake even when I'm very tired and i've been awake 20+ hours.

I'm a little over 6'3". I go straight for the front unless they tell me to sit in the back (no tip if they do this.)

Post: #9

I've been using Uber since almost day one as it came to market quite early here in Toronto. Lately, in the last year and and some there have been many more female drivers. In my experience, only thing harded immigrant or ethnic girls do well. Girls from EE, or from a Italian background that have good grounding and know how to deal with men (these women were just raised different and don't fear men). Also, urban black women who are not immigrants do well as well (4.8 and above only). The rest is a toss up or can be terrible.

Many women seem to get lost even with GPS and don't follow directions well at all. One example, I remember one driver missing three expressway exits causing me to be 30mins late. At the end of the trip she was more or less begging and for me to accept her apologies. I just was dumbfounded how someone could not understand the app GPS and even me providing direction tips -0I just shook my head and said "you need to do this job better" and stepped out of the vehicle.

I can get the vibe that woman would not feel safe but this is ironic as with the technology Uber has all the passengers information. All supposed to make things safer versus cabbies who are driving robbery targets with cash on board. Many drivers keep a sweater or box of tissues in the front seat to discourage people sitting there as a first option. These jobs all have a risk attached but the technology aspect minimizes it greatly.

Women can't be made happy. Many girls I knew now are getting "skittish" about rideshare apps from reading stories online but again.. the technology makes it so much safer versus old school methods. If a woman feels unsafe she can change her destination, cancel the trip, all with driver information available in real time. Even a screenshot with the plate and driver can be done in seconds. None of these were present before. Nothing is good enough for them.

No complaints about food apps though. No complaints when random adude has your condo buzz code to drop food at your door and knows now exactly where you live. For greasy pasta on demand all that is forgiven for these modern women.

Post: #10

Have a couple of reaction comments to this. I do know one or two male drivers for these apps and they have talked about sketchy or misbehaving passengers themselves. Male drivers even have dash cams in their car to report incidents or bad passengers while driving. It's not just a female driver issue, though admittedly they are probably more vulnerable to drunk male passengers. But, part of the taxi driving business is picking up drunk passengers who may not be acting like their normal selves or late night service with people doing sketchy things. Maybe it's just being drunk causes people to lose judgement, but I would've thought that the consequence of being reported on a very convenient app for possible banishment would be enough to keep people in check. That alone really keeps me from trying to even flirt with female drivers (though I have had maybe one semi-attractive one in my life).

About sitting in the front, I'm over 6' myself so I've never really thought twice about it. Male or female driver, I sit in the front seat in probably about 80% of rides just for leg room. I don't think that's a fair reason to call a passenger sketchy, I would do the same thing personally no matter what the gender driver.

I do agree that I don't think girls will ever be satisfied about "harassment" issues on the job or in life. I'm not denying they exist, but I feel like these apps have done a lot to minimize the risk. I'm not really sure what more Uber and Lyft could do for girls to drive unless they segregate the sexes like this one girl proposed for a new ride sharing app. And even then, what happens when a girl harasses another girl? Or guy to guy? Does that get swept under the rug?

Post: #11

In Colombia I always sit in the front because Uber is technically illegal so you have to make it seem like you're driving with a friend.

My worst experiences have been with woman drivers in Cali two or three times. It took forever for them to arrive and watching where they drove on the app it made absolutely no sense what they were doing.

Post: #12

Stupid woman driving drunk men home late at night!
If she had half a brain, she would stick to day time. I feel no petty for these stupid women! Of course it couldn't be her fault if a drunk Islamic refugee got into her car late at night and sexually assaulted her.

Post: #13

In all honesty that is the surging tine(driving drunks home at 2am) so they get paid more

Post: #14

Anyone who takes a job picking up strangers faces possible danger. Somehow this article missed that basic point.

If safety is your primary concern, there are these places called "offices" where you deal with the same people each day and get perks like building security. Perhaps these women should look into less dangerous jobs -- as men have done for years.

This is like someone taking a job cleaning skyscraper windows and then running to the media: "OMG! I almost FELL!!!!" Who'da thought??

Post: #15

Having the passenger in the front seat made her "feel" less safe.

Even though having the passenger in the back makes her actually less safe.

Back there you can't keep your eyes on them, and they might be up to something sketchy. Up front, at least you'll know.

But feelz.

Post: #16

(12-24-2018 10:33 AM)Aurini Wrote:  Having the passenger in the front seat made her "feel" less safe.

Even though having the passenger in the back makes her actually less safe.

Back there you can't keep your eyes on them, and they might be up to something sketchy. Up front, at least you'll know.

But feelz.

Maybe she's more worried about him touching her leg than strangling her.

This scene comes to mind:

Post: #17

(12-23-2018 07:56 PM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  Men and women are equal.

Quote:“He made a joke about not being a serial killer,” Pagliocco said. “Then he started talking about sexual stuff,” and all she could think about was: “What if he tries to grab or touch me?”

Pagliocco drove to the front gates of his house and told the passenger to get out of the car. She was relieved he left, though the incident left her scared and shaken, causing her to stop driving for several days.

So a guy gets an Uber to drive down a wooded road presumably away from town. He makes a joke about not being a serial killer, then talks "about sexual stuff". Then he gets out of the car without incident.

And THIS is enough to leave her shaken and needing time off work? This weak broad obviously has some mental problems.

And what was this "sexual stuff"? Did he ask if she had a boyfriend? I'm positive it wasn't anything explicit that might be genuinely inappropriate or the article would have said that.

Post: #18

It's a big risk driving the drinks home as Uber isn't that cooperative if a drunk wreaks your car with barfing or any of sort of damage. I have heard some horror stories from drivers where Uber was a pain to deal with to get compensation to fix damages done by drunks. One guy couldn't get ash burns and smoke covers as Uber tried to run around the fact that someone (iligally) smoked in his car.

Again, back to the women, not all are equal. A shady bartender with fake tits who makes a job of milking drunk dudes for tips would have no issue dealing with Uber passengers at 2am, versus, your typical Becky who is trying to use Uber as a 2nd income to get handbags isn't going to do so well.

The data I would like to see is how many women Uber friends thier are, hours worked, and earnings - which would all point to very low versus men in many cases. I also wonder if women get tipped better overall versus men as that would mirror other service jobs.

I'm actually a big fan of technology as a means to prop up female employment. My rationale is that it's better to provide incentives for stay at home mothers to make some side income how they can through Esty, Amazon, Uber, whatever. Attempts to do the single income stay at home mom lifestyle as a couple is difficult unless you're wealthy. You typically need dual incomes. Best to promote small scale digital business that women can do while being at home with her young babies.

Post: #19

(12-24-2018 01:35 PM)kosko Wrote:  The data I would like to see is how many women Uber friends thier are, hours worked, and earnings - which would all point to very low versus men in many cases. I also wonder if women get tipped better overall versus men as that would mirror other service jobs.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/06/uber-gende...gap-study/

Quote:First, it’s important to understand how Uber pays its drivers. This isn’t a traditional workplace where managers are in control of how their workers are paid. Uber provides the tech, or app, that connects drivers with riders. It pays drivers based on a formula that takes into account the length of the ride in miles, how long the ride takes, and, on occasion, the so-called “surge” multiplier, where higher demand can push up rates. The fare is determined by a gender-blind algorithm.

So why are female Uber drivers earning less even when there is no evidence of discrimination? The economists found three explanations: location of pickups, experience, and driving speed.

Post: #20

(12-23-2018 10:24 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  On a different note, I've gotten home late at night from a long, trans-Atlantic flight, and got an Uber on several occasions. Twice I fell asleep in the car for the 45 min ride home, and I woke up and found the driver way off the route to my house, apparently racking up extra miles and minutes on my bill. Now I force myself to stay awake even when I'm very tired and i've been awake 20+ hours.

Take your nap and review the route afterward when you tip (nothing says you have to do it right after the ride). You can appeal it with Uber and most of the time they'll cut the ride price to below what it would normally cost. If the driver didn't follow the recommended route or took way longer, a partial refund is almost a given.

I've had to do that several times with Ubers while traveling for work. I never did it frivolously...and never had a fare review refused.

Post: #21

I only use uber every now and then in South America. I think about 6 times I've ended up with women uber drivers. I swear on a stack of Bibles, every single damn time, they've gotten lost even with a gps and me giving them directions.

Post: #22

(12-24-2018 05:06 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  I only use uber every now and then in South America. I think about 6 times I've ended up with women uber drivers. I swear on a stack of Bibles, every single damn time, they've gotten lost even with a gps and me giving them directions.

I had the same thing, she didn't take the right turn and went into a toll way and tried to make me pay for it.

Post: #23

Lone women driving random drunks home late at night one after the other you say?

Post: #24

Here is my most interesting Uber story so far*.

Be warned: it does not end in a bang.

I was on an exploration mission to Las Vegas a few months ago. I was doing my "agent" thing. I got laid once in three days. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't the best. I had an early-ish flight out so I called an Uber.

I watched this car on the screen that Uber said was mine spiraling around my hotel... thinking I'll be late to check-in at the airport. I was hungover from the night before with only a few hours sleep and so just wanted to get the show on the road and fly home.

The car showed up and I was like "really?" It was a 15 year-old compact thing, I'd guess, with lots of wear and tear.

The driver did not get out to help me with my one small bag and so I asked the driver to pop the trunk. The driver did not. I attempted to get into the back seat but the door was somehow blocked and I suddenly discovered it was a woman in the driver’s seat and she said: "sit in the front."

(I can hear what everyone is thinking now.)

I was like fuck this. I need to catch my flight. So I get in the tiny front seat and see lots of junk in the back. I keep my bag under control and roll down the window. (She had no air blowing and the windows were rolled up.) I say, "I'm late for the airport.. let's go."

She says, "It's right around the bend. Do you have a smoke?"

I lit two at once and passed one to her. She inhaled deeply and seemed to relax a little.

I was non-plussed and she began to drive.

Then the questions started rolling off her lips: How old are you? Do you have a wife? Are you good with tools? Did you get laid in Vegas? Et cetera.

I told her truthfully that I was 48. She said I looked a lot younger and asked if I partied. I said thanks and yeah. She started to talk about health and stuff and I did not respond... I just looked out the windows at the sights.

The 20-minute drive seemed to last 20-hours. She was 34 years old (and to be fair she was a 6 with a nice face and what seemed like a redeemable body). Two kids. Black widows in her garage. She wanted to bounce to her place before dropping me off at the airport to check her laundry.

Of course, I was like: Nope. Airport. Now.

So she did.

At the end of the ride, she unwelcomely gave me her number for when I am next in town.

I was like: “I’ll mark it for later. Have a good day and night.”

She pouted but did not seem angry.

I escaped that hole and just barely made the flight home… laughing all the way.

* Perhaps I should open a "Memoirs of Max RNR" thread someday. I think I like this style of report.

Post: #25

Notice that in every single one of those stories when the woman actually did the normal thing and called the police, she got plenty of help. 99% the whining about women being ignored is actually women just not calling the police.