Post: #1

Background: I've got plenty of experience in the game, met up and had adventures with several bros from the forum. Still, I have my weaknesses, I'd love to hear feedback on this scenario, which represents a common pattern with my interactions with women.

Scenario: Approached a cute girl who works at my gym 2 weeks ago, got her number. I had seen her around the gym for 6 months, but never approached because I was dealing with some personal stuff that left me completely out of the headspace for going after women. Fast forward to now and that situation is resolved, and I'm back in the game. She also works at the gym now, so I see her on a regular basis.
Anyways, I can tell she's been interested, extra long eye contact and smiles in the gym, purposely putting herself in close proximity to me while working out, etc.
I get on Snapchat at her recommendation, we start texting and messaging. She's 19, goes to a local college. Rapport is great, she's invested heavily, asking me a bunch of questions, snapping random cutesy photos, and generally displaying very high interest. Eventually we get around to slightly more sexual convo, and she reveals she's a bit of a submissive with 2 different snippets of convo:

ME:Snap me.
HER: Are you telling me?
ME: Yes, I'm so bossy!
HER: Good, I like being told what to do. (shit test passed, snap sent).

A bit later, she snaps me again at my request.
ME: Good girl.
HER: Thanks daddy! (followed by the monkey face covering eyes)
ME: Heh, I like that.
HER: Really?
ME: Yeah, I'm generally a dominant guy, so when you do submissive stuff like that I like it.
HER: Yayyy! I love being dominated.

From there the floodgates open, she's asking if she can call me daddy, and the entire convo goes sexual, alarm goes off in my head, usually not a great idea to get super sexual over convo with a girl without an immediate plan to meet up, things can backfire quick if she gets buyers remorse for revealing her slutty side too soon.
Anyways, got her calling me daddy, sending nudes at this point, I try to get her to take a snap on her knees, looking up at the camera, she asks if she can show me her pretty little pussy instead. Proceeds to send full ass and shaved pussy.
I try to seed a meetup, at my place. She seems down, but can't make my initial offer, which was on a saturday; I got her number on Wednesday. I shrug it off, she's a student going for nursing and always in class, at the gym working, or doing homework.
Fast forward around a week, and the following has happened: 1. I've asked 3 or 4 more times trying to get her out, literally every time the excuse is the same, she's doing homework til late. 2. Texts from her are less energetic and less warm, definitely in part due to 1^. 3. Several times in a row she scoffs at the request to send nudes, responses something like "ugghhh" or evades by ignoring the request or changing topics. 4. Invited her over for Sunday evening on Saturday, she says she would love to, but isn't sure of her plans (obviously a horrible sign, very female way of saying NO).
Per #4, I mentally prepare for the flake, with plans to just stop texting her for a while upon hearing no, since I know she doesn't have anything going on Sunday. Sunday I ask her if she's good for me to pick her up at 10, she plays dumb like she didn't realize I wanted to meet up "at night," even though I made it clear in the text, she attempts to get into a discussion about that, asking for examples of where I said we would meet at night. At this point I'm checked out:
HER: Can you plss show me an example where you wanted to meet at night.
ME(hour later): Doesn't matter now.
HER: I'm sorry.
ME(several hours later): It's cool
HER: You're upset aren't you (frownie face)

I don't respond, yesterday evening she sends me a "hi", to which I also don't respond.
So, finally, my questions for you guys: 1. How do you maintain a dominant frame and not come across as needy/pushy/tryhard/desperate, while simultaneously pushing for a quick meetup? I felt it was important to get her out ASAP because things turned sexual so quick, to me it always feels like once the convo goes sexual, there's an invisible timer ticking down to the point where things fizzle out.
2. She's given me an answer on her attraction level by not meeting up in 2 weeks, despite consistently messaging me to talk. What's your normal timeframe where you say "ok, I'm letting this girl waste my time, I'm out"?

Thanks for reading guys, another one of my weaknesses displayed in my thesis above: overanalyzing. Curse of an introverted INTJ!

Post: #2

I think the same way as you. The only cure I've found is to have enough women in your stable where you genuinely don't care what any particular girl does. I feel like women can sense when you're only pretending not to care. I swear they have ESP sometimes.

Post: #3

Quote:1. How do you maintain a dominant frame and not come across as needy/pushy/tryhard/desperate, while simultaneously pushing for a quick meetup? I felt it was important to get her out ASAP because things turned sexual so quick, to me it always feels like once the convo goes sexual, there's an invisible timer ticking down to the point where things fizzle out.

In my experience you simply maintain the frame as you usually would while genuinely not giving a fuck. If they do anything even remotely close to what you described I tend to lose interest so rapidly that it doesn't even cross my mind to continue talking to them. If they waste my time with that typical feminine horseshit (leading you on with vagueness and uncertainty), I next them and find someone else who won't waste my time. I have found that by not caring about any one girl I genuinely am unbothered by behavior like this and have zero issue in cutting all communication even if it happens with multiple women at once.

Quote:2. She's given me an answer on her attraction level by not meeting up in 2 weeks, despite consistently messaging me to talk. What's your normal timeframe where you say "ok, I'm letting this girl waste my time, I'm out"?

Like many women, she probably just likes the attention and was never really that interested in meeting up. I usually will talk to a girl for a week at the most before meeting up and if she won't agree to a time to meet then I simply next her like I said above. I never give them a second chance if they flake, unless they notified me in advance and immediately apologized and offered an alternative time to meet. If they give me even the slightest bit of indirect nonanswers (such as maybe), I always next them as well. They simply aren't worth the time even if you do somehow manage to fuck them in the end. The amount of shit that some women put you through just to fuck them is asinine and I often end up completely regretting fucking them and feeling miserable and depressed afterwards because they were never worth all the effort in the end.

The solution isn't to figure out what to do with one girl it's to genuinely stop caring about any one girl. Even after you start fucking her you should continually look for other options (which what virtually all women in LTRs constantly do, with their never ending orbiters and suitors and whatnot). I usually just assume they will either flake or ghost me (whether its before fucking or after 1 month of it), and constantly look for other options or simply focus on doing things in my life that actually matter. Sometimes I am even relieved when girls flake on me because I'd rather be doing something that actually benefits my life in a way that goes beyond hedonic gratification.

Quote:Curse of an introverted INTJ!

Just so you know, the Myer-briggs personality test is actually meaningless and on par with horoscopes.

Post: #4

If I were you I would focus on other girls, get another girl, have sex with another girl-Then ask her for advice about the new girl(Because you are still friends, right?). Make sure the new girl is cuter than her.

Post: #5

Dude, I am from persistence camp. Read the below thread

Persistence

Back to your case :
Always assume if she contacted you , she is interested.
She sent you " Hi", reply back for 2-3 exchange and the ask her out again . If she said "No or maybe ", this would be it .

Post: #6

Would you agree that in most cases, it's best to do the opposite of what the Average Joe would do?

If you said yes, think about how guys are texting these days. They're asking for nudes left and right (because girls give em out).

4-5 years ago, sexually escalating via text was a gold mine...because most guys were too scared. Now that as a species we've gotten more comfortable with online communication, average guys are using it to exploit girls sexuality.

And girls love it. They love the attention they get from virtual men. It's a high they can live off of all day.

That's why personally? I don't try to escalate that much anymore over test. Think about it, if I'm a billionaire playboy getting my dick sucked by three girls at the same time, why would I be asking for nudes?

Most guys are thirsty. Most guys are horny. Most guys are trying their hardest to get nudes.

Do the opposite.

Post: #7

(01-15-2019 02:30 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  I feel like women can sense when you're only pretending not to care. I swear they have ESP sometimes.

No Fucking Joke!

Post: #8

(01-19-2019 11:39 PM)Mortay Wrote:  

(01-15-2019 02:30 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  I feel like women can sense when you're only pretending not to care. I swear they have ESP sometimes.

No Fucking Joke!

Behavior is a communication channel capable of carrying meaning in greater volume than language. This is a large part of why frame and inner game matters. Girls can appear to have ESP because they are reading your behavior with greater intensity than your language.

Post: #9

Firstly, you know where you fucked up. Getting to sexual over text gives her the validation she needs for the sake of a few nudes, she doesn't need to bang you to feel validated now because you've given her all the attention she needs. I know for me personally I have my own "validation" point, it's when I know a girl wants to fuck and she can't help it. As soon as she is sliding down those panties, that's my favourite moment right there. Her validation point is just earlier in the interaction. I have also noticed that getting sexual early will probably work against you unless you can get her out within 48 hours. Sometimes things are better left unsaid, the implications and tension make for a much sexier scenario for her.

Secondly, if she's not meeting up with you, that's the message she's sending you. Rollo says the medium is the message and well it's loud and clear here. She has the chance to bang you and she isn't, that's not bad timing. At this point you could call her out and say you're not interested in having this kind of relationship, state what you want and leave the ball in her court. But that's definitely a hail mary if you're willing to burn this which I would personally. I have so little time for this kind of behaviour these days. I find it's quite common with younger girls who don't have the experience but like the attention, it usually stops around 21.

Thirdly, bang other women. It kind of goes without saying but if you have a solid rotation of girls this kind of behaviour may be assuming at best. This girl would go onto the back burner without you having to actively freeze her out. Imagine you're spending Wednesday with Girl A and Thursday with Girl B and Friday with your friends, there's little time for this girl to be stringing you along anyway.

Post: #10

There is something called the window of opportunity and sometimes you can miss it.

/ it's not always about your "game" - she could have things in her life that are affecting her (lack of) desire to see you e.g. not horny anymore, seeing some guy, whatever

Is she the only cute girl in you area? Just hit up another girl and maybe try again later.

Post: #11

Girls don't have any rational explanation. I think that gym snapchat attention whores are the worst kind of. Next.

Post: #12

This happens, all talk, no action.

She want to be lusted after, told she is sexy, desired and chased.

But she doesn't actually want to have sex with you.

You might be able to convert with solid game, but you have to give ZERO validation, taper off contact to the occasional real date offer (with logistics set up) so you can get out in person and convert.

When you withdraw the validation she craves, and let her know she has to give it up to resume the validation feed, she MAY bang, or more likely go on to next victim - of which there will be millions lined up.

Mostly likely you got played for validation.

Post: #13

Thanks guys, solid advice from everyone, I appreciate it.

I decided to back way off on contact and put her on the backburner, only chatting for brief interludes. She hinted at doing something next week, I was very noncomittal and carefree in my conversations, maybe that will be enough to get her out. Will update if anything interesting happens.