Post: #1

The title of this thread is pretty self-explanatory. My understanding is that drug deaths have now overtaken suicide deaths. In other words, drug deaths right now are a public health crisis. I had my own issues, which I will talk about in a second.

I am from an upper-middle class upbringing, so these deaths (usually heroin, fenantyl, oxy-related) have had almost zero effect on me or friends. With the exception of one friend.

The working class is some sort of meme to the leftists now, and so there is no sympathy for these people suffering... But it is not just the working class who suffers. There are plenty of middle class kids dying who started with an Oxy at a high school party.

Part of me says it's pharma's fault. I think it is. But part of me says it's society's fault. For them making us feel so empty. Because they've destroyed our communities, pushed globalism on us, addicted us to technology, and in the process manipulated our thoughts. And oh, put us in a precarious employment situation; there was some foresight given.

I had a strong love-hate relationship with alcohol because of binge drinking in college coupled with massive feelings of inadequacy. Several years ago, I was 100 percent alcoholic. The binge drinking progressed into daily drinking, because I could no longer suppress the shakes on off days. Hangovers were speedbumps to feeling normal, so hungover days were spent drinking to level out, so to speak. I lost count of the number of days I lost to hangovers, drinking, and feeling shitty. I got fat, really fat, but I was eating almost nothing. Two bottles a day ended up costing me 420 dollars a week (ironic, I know), or in other words, $1700 a month. Because I came from decent money, no one suspected a thing. I was fat because I stopped working out and because I really liked to eat nice food (very true).

Quitting the drinking (although occasionally I still have a couple) was not a problem, but after I quit I felt like shit. At the time I was out of the country. I bought some Xanax at the pharmacy, and continued to take them for several months. Full disclosure: xanax is horrible because it's just like alcohol, but I felt like I was at an all time low. I tapered off them, realizing maybe I had a dependency, but then again I had no issue getting off them, I'm sure I had un-diagnosed anxiety disorder too, but man, I can see how every substance can be a crutch if you let it be. Let me just say that although I don't condone xanax, it feels fucking incredible. As some people on xanax say, "you could watch your house burn down and you feel like Jesus." That description is not far off... Although I've never tried picking up women on Xanax, I can imagine that if it's anything like alcohol in that regard, you could kill it. There is no filter, it is just pure nonchalance. Completely outcome independent and not a care in the world. A pleasant buzz that is more accurately, a day in, day out haze that completely engulfs you. Nostalgia because you are unable to accurately remember the day before. Wasted youth. Suddenly, the xanax rap scene makes complete sense... You chase the pleasant buzz and before you know it, it's been three months of your life, with nothing to show, other than pleasant memories that you just can't quite recover.

I've never looked back since then. My point is that all these substances are fucking addictive (whether it maybe be a SSRI, Xanax, Alcohol, Heroin, Meth, etc). The pills are bad...

I feel some sympathy for these people although they're unlike me in almost every way--many of them tremendously economically disadvantaged-- because they're going through bad shit. If there's a bright spot to the Trump phenomenon, it's that I have some hope that Trump can help these people. If you want to read more on the subject check out "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance, who was a hillbilly who made it out of Appalachia and went onto Yale Law School and the military despite the drug-addled nature of his community and family.

I've read one haunting account of the drug crisis that still sticks with me over a year after reading it (it's about a high school teacher--not your typical drug addict-- in northern California addicted to fentanyl--among other things), and it's stuck with me for over a year; it's not often i can find an article i've read over a year ago via a quick google search without remembering the title or the author's name; a few highlights:

Quote:For the more savory among you, a single Norco is the equivalent of two Vicodin, while Fentanyl is 20 times more potent than heroin and intended for use by terminal cancer patients. Before interviewing for the job I put four–100 microgram Fentanyl patches on my stomach (four times the prescribed amount) and washed down 16 or 17 Norco (eight times prescribed amount) with some blue Gatorade that looked like Windex.

They hired me. I beat out 3 other applicants, who I hope don’t read this story.

...

I use the term “high” loosely here, because the drugs no longer made me feel what the average person would consider “high.” By no means was I stumbling into class and nodding out. I was putting enough opiates into my body to sedate farm animals, but I no longer felt their effects. By the time I began teaching, I’d been hooked on opiates and benzodiazepines for about eight years. In order to just feel normal — not sick — my body required an ever-increasing amount.

...

Walking briskly after me, Tyler continued. “Hey, Mr. Smith, we need to talk.”

“Not today Tyler. It’s a really bad day,” I said, continuing my march toward the sanctuary of my classroom and my music.

Tyler looked around to make sure nobody was listening before proceeding. “Dude — Kyle’s hooked on heroin,” he said in a half-whisper. “He’s hooked on heroin and I don’t know who else to tell.” He paused. “He needs help.”

Stopping dead in my tracks, I put my head in my hands. Pushing my palms hard into my eyes, I ran my hands out to my temples and down my cheeks, where I held them and tried to think, staring off into the distance and wondering what in the hell I’d done wrong to deserve all of this. Or maybe what I’d done right. I wasn’t sure.

“Heroin, huh?” I asked, but not really.

“Yeah dude, fucking heroin,” he explained, speaking quickly. “I don’t know what happened. I mean, we used to fuck with oxies and shit at parties, but I didn’t know he was fucking with that shit.”

“Come on,” I said, “watch your mouth. We’re at school. If another teacher hears you talking like that around me…”

“Sorry, I’m just really scared. He fu- he can’t stop. He says he can’t stop.”

This presented problems for me on multiple levels, not the least of which was the fact that Kyle was the son of the assistant superintendent of my school district. My boss’s boss’s boss, in the grand scheme of things — his son had a secret.

“Where is he now?” I asked.

“He’s waiting to talk to you.”

“To me?” I asked, frustrated. “Why the fu-… what is going on?”

Walking toward my classroom, Tyler sent Kyle a text, asking to meet in my room. As rain began to fall, I walked up the ramp and into my classroom where it was warm and the music had been left on, “This Velvet Glove” playing while I felt like a fraud and wanted nothing more than to tell someone all about it.

I hoped the Norco I took at the office would hit, bringing a warm blanket of euphoria with it, but deep down I knew it wouldn’t. I was stuck dealing with yet another secret while not quite high, not quite clean. I was in narcotic purgatory and I hated it.

Post: #2

Who is "Them"? Was it the guy who walked to the shop to buy 2 bottles a day?

Or was it those people that force fed you xanax for months?

Post: #3

(02-19-2019 02:08 AM)asianirish1 Wrote:  Who is "Them"? Was it the guy who walked to the shop to buy 2 bottles a day?

Or was it those people that force fed you xanax for months?

Quote:I had a strong love-hate relationship with alcohol because of binge drinking in college coupled with massive feelings of inadequacy.

No. I am pretty clear about this:

Quote:Quitting the drinking (although occasionally I still have a couple) was not a problem, but after I quit I felt like shit. At the time I was out of the country. I bought some Xanax at the pharmacy, and continued to take them for several months. Full disclosure: xanax is horrible because it's just like alcohol, but I felt like I was at an all time low. I tapered off them, realizing maybe I had a dependency, but then again I had no issue getting off them, I'm sure I had un-diagnosed anxiety disorder too, but man, I can see how every substance can be a crutch if you let it be.

As far as, "who are they?" It's society. And elites. I'm completely comfortable taking responsibility for my actions. But, you'd be remiss for thinking that society doesn't have a role to play in all of this. They have a huge role to play.

Post: #4

I absolutely commend you for coming out on top of your issues my man! However I want to correct you because the opoid crisis... IS a crisis of the middle/upper class. 100% confirmed! In Vancouver I heard it's getting bad, and I suspect it's from the kids getting prescribed Ritalin way back when they were young!

You need to understand The bulk of the addics came after the pharmaceuticals companies stopped allowing renewals to certain people, and these people had to turn to Heroin & Fentanyl because they couldn't cope with the withdrawals. It's the middle/higher class that had the comp drug plans to afford these drugs in the first place for the most part. That's what the media ain't really telling you.

Post: #5

Respect for taking responsibility and getting clean, I’m sure that was insanely difficult and painful. There is a great book called “Dreamland” which gives a very in-depth and detailed analysis of the opioid crisis in America. It seems to put a lot of the blame on the pharma companies (with good reason, they were doing everything they could to downplay the addictive potential of opiates and ramp up sales) but I suspect there are multiple causes to this problem, probably a lot of societal issues as you alluded to.

Society is so easy and convenient but people feel lonelier and emptier than ever. Our death worshipping culture doesn’t help either. I made a post in the rap thread about how rap music glorifies and promotes hard drugs and no one seems to care.

I was recently reading a debate online about whether addiction is a “disease” or a “choice,” OP if you care to weigh in I’d be curious of your perspective. It seems easy to write it off like “just don’t put X in your body” but after reading about how pain pills were pushed on unsuspecting patients back in the ‘90’s I’ve changed my opinion a bit

Post: #6

I completely understand, sometimes even I mistakenly think of it as a working class issue although you are completely correct that some of the worst affected are the middle upper classes who were started on pain pills by doctors. One of the reasons I and others are guilty of this is because of the strong stigma about pill addiction among the middle and upperclasses, it is far easier to look at it as a working class issue and say it affects "them" rather than to turn the miscroscope towards are own communities which are being ravaged by it... In many wealthy white suburbs this has been an ongoing problem since the 90s, but has only accelerated recently.

As far as addiction, it is both a choice and a physical thing. Many times you just build a tolerance and that is the start of the problem. Its initially a choice. Even in the midst of addiction or dependency you can realize your brain is functioning abnormally and thus take steps to stop. A large part of it is willpower or being willing to improve yourself.

Post: #7

I feel you on xanax. Shit makes you relax like no other while still being in control and sociable during the experience. Luckily I've never had a prescription or had regular access to it, it would probably fuck me up otherwise.

Pills are no joke... One of my childhood friends OD'd on oxy and was literally dead for a few minutes before being revived by CPR. He's doing better now and I am hoping he sees this as a second chance. Trying to help and give him life advice whenever I can.

I dealt with my own addiction to prescription stimulants... can't believe they prescribe this shit to kids. At the end of the day the only solution is to admit you have a problem and to seek the proper help. 12-step might seem lame but it works.

And the truth is that addiction is a disease for those who suffer from it. It's not as simple as just stopping. Addicts are wired like this, but the best choice for an addict to make is to never get involved in the first place. Once you take that first step, all bets are off.

Post: #8

Well. I am from middle class also, I know of two deaths from friends from OD. Anyways. Having been on both benzos and opiates here are a few thoughts:

Opiates are really miracle drugs, for some people they can cure depersonalization, depression or anxiety.. and I do mean cure. We have opioid receptors just like we have dopamine receptors, serotonin and so forth, so the opioids in our brain must be balanced, and for some people, due to genetic mutations or what science does not know yet, they need external opiates.

But. The problem is opiates work well at first, bring a feeling of peace and all is good in the world... kind of like when Snow White or whatever was dressed by the birds. And then tolerance develops fast.

Anyways if addictions form they are hard to break, but modern medicine has answers, such as buprenorphine. Nutrition, kratom and even weed can be used to wean off opioids.

Same for benzos, for some they are really the answer.

As far as SSRIs. They are not really recreational, and agian they do help some people, but diet, exercise, and sleep are the first go toos.

Ibogaine can completely reset heroin and opioid addiction, and so can psychedelics... this is not theory. This is true.

Post: #9

(02-19-2019 04:11 PM)rungoodinc Wrote:  I feel you on xanax. Shit makes you relax like no other while still being in control and sociable during the experience. Luckily I've never had a prescription or had regular access to it, it would probably fuck me up otherwise.

Pills are no joke... One of my childhood friends OD'd on oxy and was literally dead for a few minutes before being revived by CPR. He's doing better now and I am hoping he sees this as a second chance. Trying to help and give him life advice whenever I can.

I dealt with my own addiction to prescription stimulants... can't believe they prescribe this shit to kids. At the end of the day the only solution is to admit you have a problem and to seek the proper help. 12-step might seem lame but it works.

And the truth is that addiction is a disease for those who suffer from it. It's not as simple as just stopping. Addicts are wired like this, but the best choice for an addict to make is to never get involved in the first place. Once you take that first step, all bets are off.

Xanax is killing a lot of rappers and I know why: it’s like weed without the noticeable effects of being high. Unlike alcohol, you don’t smell and you feel at ease for 4-6 hours… The internal dialogue that gets me all day every day is gone, if I really had to think about it, it’s like after doing a really tough workout and just feeling completely chill and at peace.

I never, repeat never got into pill scene, but it sounds extremely common for high school and college age kids… it’s like playing Russian roulette if you end up in it, much less getting addicted.

As far as stimulants they are bad… Completely change your personality for the worse. Sadly way too commonly prescribed, and used way too often by college kids.

Sadly I think the effectiveness of AA, NA, et al is overstated— they don’t release their numbers. I think as far as dealing with addiction, and I’m not a medical professional, cognitive behavioral therapy is the way to go, and of course if you have to detox you need to detox, although as far as I am concerned inpatient detox facilities are a huge scam (more accurately expensive rehab centers).

I’ll relay a story about that. My friend’s dad was a high-flying Wall Street guy. Everyday when he got home from work, he poured I would guess 5 or so drinks until he went to sleep. If we wanted to go by American guidelines, he was an alcoholic. He was doing it every night. I think the guy just had a stressful job and had to have an escape everyday to maintain his sanity. Nevertheless, his wife sent him to the Betty Ford Center (premier alcohol and drug detox facility in the world, arguably). I think two things: 1) that was drastic as fuck despite the fact that he was literally over-stressed from work (real alcoholics consume upwards of 90 drinks a week, most likely alcohol was a coping mechanism for him and he codependent on it), 2) It was incredibly expensive, and sent a guy who arguably didn’t have a real alcohol problem to a place he really didn’t need. Now he can’t touch alcohol at all.

My addiction experience is personal of course, so n=1. For me it was not an addiction in the strictest sense. It was me suppressing the root causes of my problems, alcohol just happened to be a convenient detour for avoiding dealing with these problems. Again, not a doctor, for many addiction is an inescapable black hole, and clinical measures have to be taken to right themselves. But any user can tell you that as an addict you have to have the desire to stop, or someone to help you stop. At the end of the day, you’re responsible for your actions and no amount of medicines or rehabs will cure you. Again, look to how much of a scam the rehab industry is. Many celebs are in them multiple times. You yourself have to want to change.

(02-19-2019 06:21 PM)BeardedMastodon Wrote:  Well. I am from middle class also, I know of two deaths from friends from OD. Anyways. Having been on both benzos and opiates here are a few thoughts:

Opiates are really miracle drugs, for some people they can cure depersonalization, depression or anxiety.. and I do mean cure. We have opioid receptors just like we have dopamine receptors, serotonin and so forth, so the opioids in our brain must be balanced, and for some people, due to genetic mutations or what science does not know yet, they need external opiates.

But. The problem is opiates work well at first, bring a feeling of peace and all is good in the world... kind of like when Snow White or whatever was dressed by the birds. And then tolerance develops fast.

Anyways if addictions form they are hard to break, but modern medicine has answers, such as buprenorphine. Nutrition, kratom and even weed can be used to wean off opioids.

Same for benzos, for some they are really the answer.

As far as SSRIs. They are not really recreational, and agian they do help some people, but diet, exercise, and sleep are the first go toos.

Ibogaine can completely reset heroin and opioid addiction, and so can psychedelics... this is not theory. This is true.

Opiates uses should be more narrowly defined and distribution of them (as well as doctor training) should be modified to reflect the reality that they are extremely addictive. By no means am I an advocate of systems predominantly based on socialized medicine, but we can learn something from Western European countries that prescribe opiates at much lower rates, and therefore they don't have the same problem as us. Synthetic opiates are the byproduct of unintended consequences-- namely doctors cutting people off from their long-running prescriptions for pain pills and also federal and state level crackdowns on pharmacies that are called pill mills. Thus the American illegal drug market is flooded with higher profit margin synthetic opiates to satisfy the unmet demand and addictions of millions. Keeping in mind these people switched first to heroin because they couldn't get oxys...

Kratom is an interesting case; it was only a year or two ago the feds were trying to ban it. Luckily people caught that, and it wasn't. Some of the research on it looks very promising.

Benzos are great, but again usage needs to be closely monitored. I can really understand now how they can help with anxiety. But I can't help wonder, what did people do about crippling anxiety in the old days? Pills treat symptoms but don't treat root causes. Part of me thinks America is extremely over-reliant on both prescription and recreational drugs. I had an interesting conversation with a French guy in college; he said something to the effect of, "I don't understand the point of going out and getting fucked up on alcohol. It's not enjoyable at all and I prefer to enjoy the experience. Not even are 15 year olds in France doing what Americans do." He had a point. Our culture is completely obsessed with drugs.

SSRIs of course are not recreational, but use of them has some pretty significant long term consequences.

It has been well-known, or more accurately, a small amount of research has shown the positive benefits of LSD, ecstasy and Ketamine for years now, but it has basically been suppressed. All sorts of things can be treated with them, including PTSD, depression, drug addiction and others.

Post: #10

(02-19-2019 06:21 PM)BeardedMastodon Wrote:  Ibogaine can completely reset heroin and opioid addiction, and so can psychedelics... this is not theory. This is true.

Can confirm - I personally know individuals that were cured of their addiction after they did Ibogaine and other psychedelics. Even as far back as the 60s it was known that psychedelics could be used successfully to tread psychological issues.

Post: #11

“But I can't help wonder, what did people do about crippling anxiety in the old days?”

I think you’re nudging the tip of the iceberg of the real issue here: did people have crippling anxiety 20-30 years ago compared to the extent of it now? Talking to older people I know it doesn’t seem that way. And a lot of the issues around societal collapse have been discussed a lot on this forum, but I have little doubts that the atomization and slide into a low-trust individualistic society is contributing in its own way to this drug crisis

I’m glad I never got into Xans, the way everyone describes them makes them sound great. Same with Oxies. But I’ve taken a lot of adderral in the past and it seems like after leaning on the crutch of artificial hyper stimulation it’s harder to get into a natural grind mode without it. Also the comedown is horrible and turned me into an insufferable asshole for a few hours.

My whole issue with drugs and the anti-drug education is that when I was a kid in elementary school, all the Dare shit and other drug ed basically said “if you do a x drug, you automatically become a junkie and your life is fucked, there is no middle ground.” Then you try weed or coke and you’re thinking “wow this isn’t so bad, I’m still good and my friends are fine.” You are seduced by the seeming harmlessness of them so you keep doing it on a regular basis or try other drugs and then time has passed and your brain has been rewired to crave these chemicals, and then you’re in a hole. Seen some people go down that road and I’m glad I never got too deep into it. Porn would probably be what I would get addicted to so I keep that at a far distance

Post: #12

I've taken xans (never again they bring out some sociopathic tendencies, I'm not a sociopath but drugs take me there.)

I can't stand people on xans, acting like they are a higher power. Sometime last year or two I beat the living hell out of someone on them and for two or three weeks I was dead scared I was going to jail but the guy honored the code.

I was able to get off opiates when fentanyl became my "only" option by getting on kratom and tapering off.

As far as AA/NA you have to understand late stage addiction you probably have nothing going on in life and just having people to talk to/eat with/play ball etc is a fantastic thing. I started going again, lots of scumbags in the rooms so you have to have a guard up but it is, as far as I know, the oldest self improvent group in America and lots of people are on the self help tip like the forum here.

Also, when people blame big pharma it sounds an awful lot like an excuse to me.

Post: #13

(02-20-2019 10:49 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  “But I can't help wonder, what did people do about crippling anxiety in the old days?”

I think you’re nudging the tip of the iceberg of the real issue here: did people have crippling anxiety 20-30 years ago compared to the extent of it now? Talking to older people I know it doesn’t seem that way. And a lot of the issues around societal collapse have been discussed a lot on this forum, but I have little doubts that the atomization and slide into a low-trust individualistic society is contributing in its own way to this drug crisis

I’m glad I never got into Xans, the way everyone describes them makes them sound great. Same with Oxies. But I’ve taken a lot of adderral in the past and it seems like after leaning on the crutch of artificial hyper stimulation it’s harder to get into a natural grind mode without it. Also the comedown is horrible and turned me into an insufferable asshole for a few hours.

My whole issue with drugs and the anti-drug education is that when I was a kid in elementary school, all the Dare shit and other drug ed basically said “if you do a x drug, you automatically become a junkie and your life is fucked, there is no middle ground.” Then you try weed or coke and you’re thinking “wow this isn’t so bad, I’m still good and my friends are fine.” You are seduced by the seeming harmlessness of them so you keep doing it on a regular basis or try other drugs and then time has passed and your brain has been rewired to crave these chemicals, and then you’re in a hole. Seen some people go down that road and I’m glad I never got too deep into it. Porn would probably be what I would get addicted to so I keep that at a far distance

It’s pretty clear there’s an increase of anxiety in modern society compared to 50 years ago. One thing: I think people are a lot less comfortable socially dealing with people or strangers. The last time someone made small talk with you or started bullshitting… were they a millennial or was it some person 40+ years old? That’s what I notice. The statistics are pretty clear that people are staying home more. On average Americans are spending 10 hours a day looking at screens. I think also social media has taken keeping up with the Joneses to a new level and made people feel a lot more inadequate. Demonstrably these apps make people feel more depressed and anxious on average. People do not realize that others fail almost daily in their normal life, don’t live up to expectations, have flaws, addictions, trouble with work, relationships and so on. If everyone is projecting their best self on social media at some point you become convinced you’re not keeping up. I second your point on low-trust individualistic societies. Experiments in prisons with social isolation or solitary confirm that humans, much like other primates, need to socialize and need access to other humans. I think social media and technology fails us in that way because the access to humans isn’t real in any sense. I remember reading something somewhere about online dating that women can only handle 9 different choices max before there is what you would call paralysis by analysis or an inability to make a call on who she wants.

The anti-drug movement is a complete failure, but it is ironic that people do not see the prescription drug system/ medical system as a failure too. I mean, hell, more people dying from drugs than suicides? Most from Opiates… Well we have a huge problem.

I don’t know if there is a thread on the bad affect of porn, but I find porn is harder to kick than even your choice of most addictive drugs. Surely, it has to be up there with heroin in terms of addictiveness. Porn is most likely a public health crisis but feminists and retarded liberals are not researching the issues it creates. Then, you think of the declining testosterone and you think that all this shit has to be somehow related…

(02-20-2019 11:18 AM)godfather dust Wrote:  I've taken xans (never again they bring out some sociopathic tendencies, I'm not a sociopath but drugs take me there.)

I can't stand people on xans, acting like they are a higher power. Sometime last year or two I beat the living hell out of someone on them and for two or three weeks I was dead scared I was going to jail but the guy honored the code.

I was able to get off opiates when fentanyl became my "only" option by getting on kratom and tapering off.

As far as AA/NA you have to understand late stage addiction you probably have nothing going on in life and just having people to talk to/eat with/play ball etc is a fantastic thing. I started going again, lots of scumbags in the rooms so you have to have a guard up but it is, as far as I know, the oldest self improvent group in America and lots of people are on the self help tip like the forum here.

Also, when people blame big pharma it sounds an awful lot like an excuse to me.

Xans seem to turn people into robots or nonchalant NPCs… In some ways it can turn people into jerks like coke.

Shit man, that opiate stuff sounds serious… Were you dabbling recreationally or was it the result of a prescription?

I can see your point about AA/NA. Have you heard about the 13th step, banging women in these programs?

Big pharama does bear some blame insofar as they’re bribing doctors to prescribe potent addictive medicines that people don’t necessarily need, such as powerful opiates.

Post: #14

(02-19-2019 07:09 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  But I can't help wonder, what did people do about crippling anxiety in the old days?

Your priest told you God loved you and everything would be OK. Worst case scenario was hanging out in heaven with your mom as long as you did the right thing.

Post: #15

I tried xanax for the first time last weekend, my friend came back from India with a bunch of boner pills and benzos so I grabbed a bunch. It was ok I just got tired and fell asleep, I don't think I'll get anymore, I don't need them at all and benzos stay in your system for quite a long time, up to three weeks which is a concern for me as I have to do drug testing at work. It's much safer for me to snort cocaine or smoke meth, that's shit is out in 2-3 days!

All of those retard rappers who are whacked out on benzos and opiates are losers, their music fucking sucks- rap used to be much better when it was by guys who sold crack and pimped hoes, not a bunch of weirdos addicted to down.

Post: #16

Scotion yes rappers were better on weed, champagne, coke and dust, none of this making yourself a retard before hitting the studio.

Post: #17

(02-20-2019 11:47 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  It’s pretty clear there’s an increase of anxiety in modern society compared to 50 years ago.

I think a big cause is the ease of life for the last 2 generations. In the past pretty much everyone was broken from life and didn't have much chance to sit on the sidelines crying about it. A death in the family, falling into the mill and loosing an arm, going blind... How could the average millen-tard handle any of that these days when they can't handle jokes from the 90s.

There has been an impetus to protect people from bad, but like a good dose of bacteria and pathogens builds your biological defences, being subjected to hardship gives you a barrier to bad things. Bad things happening and the phenomena of crumpled people who can't deal with bad things is the price of having people who can deal with life. Wall the bad things off and you will quickly end up with people who can't handle bad things, so they will happen anyway.

(02-20-2019 11:47 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  The anti-drug movement is a complete failure, but it is ironic that people do not see the prescription drug system/ medical system as a failure too. I mean, hell, more people dying from drugs than suicides? Most from Opiates… Well we have a huge problem.

Until drug dealers are hung by the neck until dead, there is no anti-drug movement. Throw in the odd user for example. Singapore has the lowest opioid use in the world. It's what they do.

Post: #18

Quote:I think a big cause is the ease of life for the last 2 generations. In the past pretty much everyone was broken from life and didn't have much chance to sit on the sidelines crying about it. A death in the family, falling into the mill and loosing an arm, going blind... How could the average millen-tard handle any of that these days when they can't handle jokes from the 90s.

There has been an impetus to protect people from bad, but like a good dose of bacteria and pathogens builds your biological defences, being subjected to hardship gives you a barrier to bad things. Bad things happening and the phenomena of crumpled people who can't deal with bad things is the price of having people who can deal with life. Wall the bad things off and you will quickly end up with people who can't handle bad things, so they will happen anyway.

I agree. Life has gotten easy. Overall everyone gets triggered too easy, and people now are way too narcissistic.

Quote:Until drug dealers are hung by the neck until dead, there is no anti-drug movement. Throw in the odd user for example. Singapore has the lowest opioid use in the world. It's what they do.

I do not think it would work in an individualistic place like the US, even in Eastern Europe they have high drug use rates despite the penalties which are proportionally worse than in the US. Japan has low drug use rates, but that's Japan. Same for China. The biggest drug dealers are doctors and pharma and neither are held accountable for the trail of destruction they've created through the middle of America. Singapore also canes male offenders for slight offenses. They are a police state, which strong beliefs in retributive justice. Gum chewing is also an offense. Sounds way too much like Saudi Arabia to me, no thanks. Individualistic culture I think is a huge driver of drug use, so I don't think it would do much for the US and drug use rates. The US overall has the highest drug usage rates in the world.

Post: #19

(02-19-2019 06:21 PM)BeardedMastodon Wrote:  Well. I am from middle class also, I know of two deaths from friends from OD. Anyways. Having been on both benzos and opiates here are a few thoughts:

Opiates are really miracle drugs, for some people they can cure depersonalization, depression or anxiety.. and I do mean cure. We have opioid receptors just like we have dopamine receptors, serotonin and so forth, so the opioids in our brain must be balanced, and for some people, due to genetic mutations or what science does not know yet, they need external opiates.

But. The problem is opiates work well at first, bring a feeling of peace and all is good in the world... kind of like when Snow White or whatever was dressed by the birds. And then tolerance develops fast.

Anyways if addictions form they are hard to break, but modern medicine has answers, such as buprenorphine. Nutrition, kratom and even weed can be used to wean off opioids.

Same for benzos, for some they are really the answer.

As far as SSRIs. They are not really recreational, and agian they do help some people, but diet, exercise, and sleep are the first go toos.

Ibogaine can completely reset heroin and opioid addiction, and so can psychedelics... this is not theory. This is true.

ANNND like usual... when googling Ibogaine... it is illegal in the US! Big Pharma protecting their coffers once again by making the non Patent substance illegal.

Post: #20

(02-20-2019 06:44 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 06:21 PM)BeardedMastodon Wrote:  Well. I am from middle class also, I know of two deaths from friends from OD. Anyways. Having been on both benzos and opiates here are a few thoughts:

Opiates are really miracle drugs, for some people they can cure depersonalization, depression or anxiety.. and I do mean cure. We have opioid receptors just like we have dopamine receptors, serotonin and so forth, so the opioids in our brain must be balanced, and for some people, due to genetic mutations or what science does not know yet, they need external opiates.

But. The problem is opiates work well at first, bring a feeling of peace and all is good in the world... kind of like when Snow White or whatever was dressed by the birds. And then tolerance develops fast.

Anyways if addictions form they are hard to break, but modern medicine has answers, such as buprenorphine. Nutrition, kratom and even weed can be used to wean off opioids.

Same for benzos, for some they are really the answer.

As far as SSRIs. They are not really recreational, and agian they do help some people, but diet, exercise, and sleep are the first go toos.

Ibogaine can completely reset heroin and opioid addiction, and so can psychedelics... this is not theory. This is true.

ANNND like usual... when googling Ibogaine... it is illegal in the US! Big Pharma protecting their coffers once again by making the non Patent substance illegal.

In Libertarian circles, Dallas Buyers Club, the film, is almost required watching (as well as Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"). Despite the SJW messages contained in such a mainstream film, it is completely true that it should not be criminal for people to try out new treatments, especially if they show some promise it terms of curing serious or terminal diseases. In fact I think it is noble to go out of your way to help someone suffering from one of these diseases even if you're fighting the Orthodoxy on it.

As far as I am concerned, FDA, and the pharma industry is one big scam.

Why, why has the establishment been sitting on this research about LSD, ecstasy, ketamine, and even marijuana for years, and in some places suppressing it. Simple: profit.

If the system were truly about curing the patient these things would have already of been legalized, or allowed in medical contexts.

Post: #21

(02-19-2019 09:51 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  Respect for taking responsibility and getting clean, I’m sure that was insanely difficult and painful. There is a great book called “Dreamland” which gives a very in-depth and detailed analysis of the opioid crisis in America. It seems to put a lot of the blame on the pharma companies (with good reason, they were doing everything they could to downplay the addictive potential of opiates and ramp up sales) but I suspect there are multiple causes to this problem, probably a lot of societal issues as you alluded to.

Society is so easy and convenient but people feel lonelier and emptier than ever. Our death worshipping culture doesn’t help either. I made a post in the rap thread about how rap music glorifies and promotes hard drugs and no one seems to care.

I was recently reading a debate online about whether addiction is a “disease” or a “choice,” OP if you care to weigh in I’d be curious of your perspective. It seems easy to write it off like “just don’t put X in your body” but after reading about how pain pills were pushed on unsuspecting patients back in the ‘90’s I’ve changed my opinion a bit

That book was a great read but pretty sad too. In North American culture anyway, we tend to really trust our medical professionals so if the doctor tells us to take something, we take it with full faith that what they are giving us will help us. Well that trust was broken big time by unscrupulous pharmaceutical companies who pushed opioids onto doctors who in turn over prescribed them to patients, often in so called "pill mills". A lot of this was based on bad science that basically stated that percocets and oxycodons were not habit forming or addictive, which we now know not to be true. When measures were taken to curtail the availability of these opioid pills, addicts were left with no option but the streets and Mexican dope dealers were happy to fill that void, often giving out free samples at methadone clinics, what a great strategy!

There have been some really big lawsuits involved, the ((Sackler)family who run the pharma company got hit big time: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/healt...ioids.html

I've been around some pill heads, one of my buddies OD'd and died at 22, another is a junkie with Hep-C, a couple of others who I've watched bang needles in their arms are on the missing list, probably homeless somewhere. My own father got pretty effed up on them and crashed his car, he was prescribed Oxys for a bad back, thankfully he got off of them. I know a couple of other guys who are functioning pill addicts, I've seen them sniff oxys on their work breaks, its pretty fucked up.

Then there's the uppers addicts, of which I'm a member, having been on ritalin and mostly dexedrine for over 20 years now, I'm off and on with them though and generally only use them when I'm studying for exams, which has been often lately.

So bascially you have the visible street addicts who are banging smack and the tweakers smoking meth but what is not so obvious are the "regular people" who are taking narcotics on a daily basis just to get by and function, what a world we live in.

Post: #22

Actually, I am NOT sure it is a crisis. Cal me bias(cop) but most who do drugs and get addicted were trying to get high. No different than if they bought illegal drugs. These knuckleheads are making it harder for the rest of us to get legit pain meds when needed. NY , for example, is a headache. I think most people taking ANY drug legit isn't gonna get addicted, though tolerance can form.

Post: #23

(02-21-2019 02:20 PM)jimukr75 Wrote:  Actually, I am NOT sure it is a crisis. Cal me bias(cop) but most who do drugs and get addicted were trying to get high. No different than if they bought illegal drugs. These knuckleheads are making it harder for the rest of us to get legit pain meds when needed. NY , for example, is a headache. I think most people taking ANY drug legit isn't gonna get addicted, though tolerance can form.

Well, by the time their lives interact with you they have deviated significantly from any standard for a functional human being.

One of the big drivers of the opioid side is that for ~10-20 years the Oxycotin folks were pushing doctors to adopt an impossible standard of care which involved "No patient feeling pain ever after medical care starts" and lead to masses of patients who should have been given tylenol, and NSAID, or a mild lower abuse potential opiate (codeine) ending up on powerful high abuse potential opiates.

The introduction of the 1-10 "pain scale" is roughly when the opiate situation was set up to explode.

Whether someone gets addicted depends is a complicated 3 way interaction between 1. Which person 2. Which Drug and 3. Why is this person initially taking the drug. Nicotine has a very mild subjective effect on most people taking it, but because of how the body adapts to the presence of nicotine 90%+ of people who use nicotine are addicted. Most other drugs are less addictive than nicotine despite having more profound subjective effects experienced by the user. Weed's somewhere between 10-20% of users using in a way that suggests addiction. ~10% of drinkers are alcoholic. Different Opiates appear to have different potentials to induce addiction, but once someone gets hooked they which Opiate becomes less important.

Post: #24

1. It is not a crisis

2. Drugs should all be legalized

Post: #25

(02-21-2019 03:30 PM)spydersuit Wrote:  1. It is not a crisis

2. Drugs should all be legalized

Well this thread inspired me to search around, and see what the reality is like for people who interact with addicts on a daily basis. I then found this documentary on Youtube... and, im my mind at least, it's irrefutable & crystal clear... that it IS indeed a full fledged Crisis! And before watching, I would've guessed that California or Florida would be the most impacted areas... but no Hold you breath... it's New Hampshire! New Hampshire whut!

All I knew about New Hampshire before searching around was that it's near or somewhere around Boston. Well according to Wikipedia, as of 2008, the median income in the state was $49,467, which was ranked seventh highest in the country back then! That's not lower class numbers folks... and quick pieces on fentanyl most likely won't mention this fact! And here's the Kicker... and I'm not writing this to start any negative conversation or anything... simply to lay out the facts.

The state was 93.9% White occupied as of 2010! This + the Median income is the irrefutable proof that it's a MYTH that this epidemic is mainly affecting the lower classes... it ain't! Men lie... Women lie... but numbers don't! I'm not even an addict... and watching this motivates me to never ever deal with anxiety with anything external other than maybe a cup of coffee! Dead Serious! And oddly enough... a couple of days ago a fitness Youtuber that I fallow off & on named Jerry Ward dropped this video, in which he shared is thoughts about how could this have started... which goes in the same territories some of us have shared about the role big pharma could have played in this mess!

Once again this illustrates how it cannot be mainly the lower classes suffering at they don't primarily hold the jobs which offers Medical Plans covering recurrent prescriptions! I Strongly recommend for anyone to watch these 2 videos to reinforce the idea of dealing with negative emotions ideally with nothing but the mind... or a dirt cheap snack!