Post: #1

I just finished watching this video after randomly stumbling upon it and it had me thinking a whole lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YuSPF69Evk

Basically, this PUA/redpill game guy talks about how women love opportunistically and men love idealistically. I've been reading this statement a lot since i took the red pill, but i never quite fully understood it. It basically says women don't love you as a person, they love the way you make them feel, the way you turn on her emotions, they love the sex etc. They aren't in love with you, they are in love with what you can provide them. Psychologically, emotionally, physically, financially etc.

It's a hard pill to swallow. Could someone explain to me how this is true? Does this mean you'll never find a woman that will be in love in you for YOU? Do you have to keep up making her feel a certain way for her to maintain her attraction to you?

I've read that this explains how women can move on almost right away from a relationship and in the wink of an eye they're onto another guy. Yet, if the guy was in love, he could be ruined for a year or more before he can get over it.

Does this mean a woman can never love you unconditional? AWALT? She will only love you for what you provide either physically or emotionally for her?

Is it a blue pill ideology and Hollywood fantasy that you will be able to find a woman that will love you no matter what? Does this mean that your current LTR/wife is only with you because of how you make her feel?

Post: #2

Everyone in this world is about themselves first. Me, me, me. That goes for both genders.

Men can love a woman based on one thing: if she's hot and we can fuck. If that's gone, I think we all know we'll be out the door.

Sex isn't as important for women, so it's about how we make them feel, the lifestyle we can provide, and the respect that we earn from them. I'd say that women are considerably more ruthless in moving on once we don't provide for their needs.

Yes dude, it's a complete fantasy that a woman will love you no matter what. Understand that women have a different definition of loyalty. Men have loyalty to an object, or a rule, or a principle:
"I am loyal to Janine Black, born 1990. I will never leave her" (as long as she fucks me)
"I am loyal to the United States of America"

Women think differently when they define loyal:
"I am loyal to Mike, the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy"

It's not like they are loyal to Mike XYZ, the actual flesh. They are loyal to the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy. As soon as he isn't the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy, he doesn't exist. It's a different person. They don't need to be loyal to him.

Post: #3

Evolutionary psychology. Women need a man to survive, but if their man is killed/conquered (common during our thousands of years of human development), they can't just lay down and die. So she had to be able to move on and fuck the winner without any qualms. If they were so "deeply in love" that would interfere with their ability to find a new provider, the law of survival means she can't give a fuck about you. They evolved to not care about you. You lose your job she's going to get rid of you and find a new provider for her eggs. Her offspring don't survive if she stays with a guy who can't provide, whether threw being killed / paralyzed / losing job etc..

Women don't feel attraction or love anywhere similar to the way men do. Look at all the pages on here of elaborate text game, needing every nuance strategy just to meet up with a girl.

This is why I buy hookers. They are honest.

The "commitment" part with them in a marriage only works if social conventions are in place to secure the transaction. Divorce laws that recognize the man as authority, a church community that pressures her into staying married, etc... It's a way to harness their nature while still getting normal men to create a stable society.

Post: #4

I have to disagree with Graft up there. It’s common and even a joke for men to stay in sexless marriages. It’s pretty much tradition it seems for a woman to go completely down hill once she feels his love.

But to answer the question, it’s pure biology. There’s a reason why the typical “save the princess from the dragon” story is the most popular. It appeals to everything that makes us men. We value that woman, we value the challenge of getting her, we value the journey and even if the prize isn’t that great we still value and love her because of what it took and the adventure. Women will ALWAYS biologically be more important due to eggs vs sperm. This adds to the dynamic.

Look at most romance movies, most love stories and you’ll see a similar dynamic. A princess is saved by her prince and the dragon could be anything, including herself. Women love the excitement, they love the traits that make you, you but it’s rare for a woman to ever love you...because you’re expendable.

I personally believe in unconditional love but I feel it’s rarer and rare nowadays. But yes most of this is a Hollywood fantasy.

Post: #5

(03-12-2019 11:20 AM)lifecrisis Wrote:  Do you have to keep up making her feel a certain way for her to maintain her attraction to you?

Yes

A woman needs to fear losing you (dread) in order for her desire (attraction) to stay intact

Post: #6

There is no love, just chemical mediated mindsets determined by selective forces across the continuum of evolutionary biology

Post: #7

There is only one woman in a man's life that will love him unconditionally and that's the woman he popped out of...

Post: #8

Even then that’s not true

Post: #9

The great B.B. King:
"Nobody loves me but my mother,
and she could be jivin' me too."

Post: #10

This may help. Its somehow pro MGTOW and Pro pick-up

Post: #11

Mandatory reading on the matter


https://therationalmale.com/category/love/

Post: #12

(03-12-2019 11:44 AM)Graft Wrote:  Men can love a woman based on one thing: if she's hot and we can fuck. If that's gone, I think we all know we'll be out the door.

Not true. In my most blue pill days.

Even if she sucked at sex I would have been overwhelmed by some female attention and felt it was special. I remember as a 12 to 15-year-old being so in love with my girlfriend who I never had sex with and did all the classic blue pill shit with.

Literally, thousands of men are getting no sex from their wives even though they love them to death meanwhile the women are repulsed by them.

Post: #13

(03-12-2019 07:20 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 11:44 AM)Graft Wrote:  Men can love a woman based on one thing: if she's hot and we can fuck. If that's gone, I think we all know we'll be out the door.

Not true. In my most blue pill days.

Even if she sucked at sex I would have been overwhelmed by some female attention and felt it was special. I remember as a 12 to 15-year-old being so in love with my girlfriend who I never had sex with and did all the classic blue pill shit with.

Literally, thousands of men are getting no sex from their wives even though they love them to death meanwhile the women are repulsed by them.

Yes, I think Graft might be generalising from his own experience as a man with standards. Many, if not most, men have very low standards indeed. Hence why fatties and plain janes can easily get boyfriends.

Post: #14

1 word. Bullshit.

Post: #15

It's easy to get blackpilled by these types of revelations. They're often encapsulated into words by men who've experienced the worst of women (men in the west). But don't despair, use your logic. A man that has developed his faculties of logic and reason can use them to overcome anything.

I experienced a nuclear rejection a couple months back. The type of rejection that would have sent a younger me spiraling into the blackpill abyss for years to come had I not been equipped with the knowledge I now possess. I call the experience Rejection Plus.

Basically, a girl I'd had my eye on for a few months not only rejected me, but did so to go be a slut for the night with another dude. To give you context about what I mean, here's an earlier post about catching oneitis that refers to the topic at hand:
/thread-62575...pid1564879

(05-05-2017 08:41 AM)Barron Wrote:  Men love idealistically.

We project our ideals onto women and then fool ourselves into believing we're in love with them.

In reality we're just in love with our own ideals and one day some random sloot just happened to be on the receiving end

I'd unconsciously projected my ideals onto this girl. When I asked her to dance she said yes, then a guy pulled her away from me. We played tug-of-war over her a couple times and it was about to escalate into a fight as we got in each other's faces. This was at a corporate party for my job, all three of us were co-workers. If we fight, we could be fired. He's Ukrainian, all he has to do is find another job. I'm American, here on a working permit that my job provides for me. If I get fired, I not only lose my job, my visa will be invalidated, and my residence here along with the life I've built for the past 4 years falls into jeopardy. I had way more to lose, making the fight unfair, so I let go of the girl and he pulled her outside, she complied with him.

All she had to do was tell him to go away but she didn't, she went home with him, and I got AMOG'd. This girl whom I liked, asked to dance, just up and left with some random dude to go get fucked. Not only had I been rejected, I'd been rejected plus she went to go be a slut with some other guy right in front of me. It fucked me up worse than the harshest cold approach rejection I've ever endured by 10x. I couldn't sleep that night, I felt like such a bitch, and maybe I am.

The next morning I woke up and had settled down but was still pissed. I decided that I couldn't go on with last night's events spiraling through my mind again and again like some PTSD shit. So I decided to analyze the situation from beginning to end.

I realized that the guy had invested far more into getting her home than me - I began to recall that I'd seen him chatting her up and dancing with her for at least a half hour before I approached her. In fact, I probably went in to fuck with his investment and get off on her bailing on him for me. When I realized that he had more investment in leaving with her than I did, I began to calm down and acknowledge that I may have been in the wrong.

My philosophy is simple: Nothing is worth my happiness, nothing at all (thanks Patrice O'Neal). When I realized this guy probably deserved her more and that she was just another slut (not the ideal I'd projected), I was 90% over the entire situation and my thoughts drifted back onto normal things. I went back to work on Monday unfazed and now when I see both her or him my interactions are as if the event had never transpired.

From an older RoK article:
http://www.returnofkings.com/85979/man-s...r-25-years

Quote:But the natural way for a man is to be pleased with himself and feel important. The one who dislikes that might as well hang herself in the attic.

Quote:In a young man’s mind there is an innermost room, and in it there’s only space for one thing, himself. To expect something else or to demand something else, now or ever, would be foolish.

What doesn’t fit in the young man’s center, namely everything else, is put in the waiting room. There sits his girlfriends, his ambitions, society, God and the devil. Maybe one day they’ll be allowed to enter, maybe not. But until further notice, the inner room, the most sacred, is occupied. God is not angered by this, and therefore no one else should be either.

You, me and every man has his sacred room. The outside world will do everything it can to get in there and desecrate it, but a man that has developed his faculties of logic and reason can keep his room protected and sacred for himself forever. Much of the world will hate him for it, but they will also respect him for it. All we men have in this world is our logic, we can use it to do and become anything. My room is for myself only, I'm happy in here because it is my natural state. No woman, not matter how great, no slut, no matter how hot, no amount of money, fucking nothing is worth losing the sanctity of my happiness.

OP, in reference to your thread's question:
The greatest revelation came when I experienced that I could never love a woman more than I love myself, and that even believing I could is an utterly unnatural attempt at self-deception of the highest degree. The more I protect my happiness by playing to the strengths I've worked to develop, the better my life becomes.

Post: #16

The thing is, love is a chicken and the egg problem, and men are biologically programmed to perceive value in women before they've proven they're worth anything beyond their superficial attributes. The best thing to do is to understand that the initial attraction, the infatuation as it were, is just a motivational force. The value of a woman is something that reveals itself over time after you pass the hurdle of entering into a relationship. But the early rejections, especially if all you're after are ONSs, shouldn't mean that much.

Post: #17

Barron, you're a legend, wish I could give you more than one positive rep.

I agree men love idealistically, I read a quote (if you know where this quote came from please tell me) "every man fears seeing the disappointed look of his mother in the face of every woman". Most men that I know, AND MYSELF think like this. Looking back at it every women I ever "loved" was simply an ideal of what I wanted her to be. I did everything to make that a reality, and any woman's disappointed face broke me down.

Love is a weird thing, I say avoid it.

Post: #18

Do not believe the bullshit. Love is not a feeling. Love is a choice... it's an action. If you choose to love a woman then you must wake up every day and make that choice.

Post: #19

(03-12-2019 11:44 AM)Graft Wrote:  ne loyal:
"I am loyal to Mike, the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy"

It's not like they are loyal to Mike XYZ, the actual flesh. They are loyal to the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy. As soon as he isn't the strong, enterprising, funny, confident, popular guy, he doesn't exist. It's a different person. They don't need to be loyal to him.

You should see what the divorce rate is for professional athletes after they retire....

Post: #20

(03-12-2019 08:21 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 07:20 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 11:44 AM)Graft Wrote:  Men can love a woman based on one thing: if she's hot and we can fuck. If that's gone, I think we all know we'll be out the door.

Not true. In my most blue pill days.

Even if she sucked at sex I would have been overwhelmed by some female attention and felt it was special. I remember as a 12 to 15-year-old being so in love with my girlfriend who I never had sex with and did all the classic blue pill shit with.

Literally, thousands of men are getting no sex from their wives even though they love them to death meanwhile the women are repulsed by them.

Yes, I think Graft might be generalising from his own experience as a man with standards. Many, if not most, men have very low standards indeed. Hence why fatties and plain janes can easily get boyfriends.

Those are the guys that cheat in their 40s with the 1st quasi-good looking coworker that bats an eye at them. Meanwhile, she's just looking for a promotion. I've seen it quite a few times, as couples get older. Guys that have low standards are easily baited. Think of all the politicians and generals that get caught with women that aren't particularly attractive, but simply more attractive than their wives. These guys aren't virtuous most the time, they're just unable to get what they want.

Post: #21

Post: #22

I have learnt to not blame women for being like they are.

As some of you have said before, love is mainly a choice. But sometimes, someone does that choice with a bit idealistically, and someone starts to think that this unique girl could be like our ideal girl.

Women can be shallow? Yes. Men as well, very shallow. I remember rejecting girls because some shallow facts, for example, having short legs, no ass, ugly noise or ugly feet, not so pretty eyes, etc... many times (if not all) i don't fall in love with certain girl only because her not being hot enough. I simply can't 'love' a woman if she can't me get excited physically. I used to think: I just cannot have descendance with this girl! She has great ass but her face is not for a LTR (lol).

Haven't you felt falling in love to a girl just seconds after the first sight? It could be unfair, but many men have felt love only because of looks. I can assure many men could stop 'loving' their partners if one day she wakes up with a fattier body, so big eagle nose, one tit way bigger than the another one, whatever...
So girls checking your SMV or another personality characters is not unfair for me. (Plus, it gets the best of men, the best legacy of humanity due to men improving themselves). See women as kids, as the kid you were, that shallow and egoist as a kid could be, the kid that goes with the person who offers more candies no matter what.

You can have the woman with the best personality in the world. But if you see another equal woman just with better face/ass and you can have her, you will go for the second one.

So it's better to stop falling in love, and to start choosing to love.

Post: #23

You guys are conflating love with lust.

Lust is one of the most powerful emotions a man can have. It's so powerful it can transport him to a completely illogical state. But that's just fine, it's the way nature intended it. So don't try fighting or avoiding it, just learn to identify it when you feel it.

(03-14-2019 11:29 PM)Zoso Wrote:  Women can be shallow? Yes. Men as well, very shallow. I remember rejecting girls because some shallow facts, for example, having short legs, no ass, ugly noise or ugly feet, not so pretty eyes, etc... many times (if not all) i don't fall in love with certain girl only because her not being hot enough. I simply can't 'love' a woman if she can't me get excited physically. I used to think: I just cannot have descendance with this girl! She has great ass but her face is not for a LTR (lol).

Men have to lust before they can love. And by love I mean to include a girl in your idealism. I could never include a basic bitch in my ideal life.
Our discerning eye for all their little physical shortcomings isn't a flaw but a feature of natural male fitness testing. I don't know about you but I want the hottest, youngest, most chaste girl to take part in my ideal life.

(03-14-2019 11:29 PM)Zoso Wrote:  Haven't you felt falling in love to a girl just seconds after the first sight? It could be unfair, but many men have felt love only because of looks. I can assure many men could stop 'loving' their partners if one day she wakes up with a fattier body, so big eagle nose, one tit way bigger than the another one, whatever...

God damn right, because the male equivalent is:
She would stop loving me if we got together when I was financially successful, funny, spontaneous, in good shape, etc. Then one day I decide to quit my job, go broke, smoke weed, become a fat slob playing video games all day. And she has every right to stop loving me if I did so. Both are cases of one partner taking their SMV and flushing it down the toilet. Her diminishing her SMV by sabotaging her looks is the same as me doing the above ^^, it's total and utter disrespect towards your partner.

(03-14-2019 11:29 PM)Zoso Wrote:  You can have the woman with the best personality in the world. But if you see another equal woman just with better face/ass and you can have her, you will go for the second one.

Not necessarily, maybe your girl is a total sweetheart who's V-card you took and you know is 100% loyal to you? Sure you'll feel greater lust for the hot chick, but you have no emotional (idealism) investment in her. Plus, you have no way knowing if she's a total cunt. I live in Kiev, and feel lust everyday the moment I walk outside my apartment. Even if I could fuck a new girl every day, I can tell you that I have zero desire in waking up next to some SDL/SNL, doesn't matter how hot she is.

(03-14-2019 11:29 PM)Zoso Wrote:  So it's better to stop falling in love, and to start choosing to love.

Awareness of the difference between lust and love takes care of this.

Post: #24

Brothers, we should understand that the fundamental assumption of this topic is wrong. Women can and do love men idealistically. Men can and do love women opportunistically. They say a man is only as faithful as his options... and if you search within yourself you will understand that this is predominantly true.

Real love... the kind we want from women and they want from us requires emotional control and some logical capabilities. You have to be able to be a master of your emotions and not allow them to sweep you in whatever direction they take. The reason we feel that Western women are absolute mercenaries in matters of love is because they are raised on the disney princess model of love. They go wherever their whimsical emotions take them. We should recognize that most men in the west are similar to this.

I live near a military base. I see women who run off and cheat 5 seconds after their man deploys... and I've seen women who spend the rest of their lives faithfully loving and caring for a disabled vet.

Post: #25

(03-15-2019 11:02 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Brothers, we should understand that the fundamental assumption of this topic is wrong. Women can and do love men idealistically. Men can and do love women opportunistically. They say a man is only as faithful as his options... and if you search within yourself you will understand that this is predominantly true.

Real love... the kind we want from women and they want from us requires emotional control and some logical capabilities. You have to be able to be a master of your emotions and not allow them to sweep you in whatever direction they take. The reason we feel that Western women are absolute mercenaries in matters of love is because they are raised on the disney princess model of love. They go wherever their whimsical emotions take them. We should recognize that most men in the west are similar to this.

I live near a military base. I see women who run off and cheat 5 seconds after their man deploys... and I've seen women who spend the rest of their lives faithfully loving and caring for a disabled vet.

You got a point. Although I would agree with the OP here that most women seem to fall into the category of loving opportunistically, it's good to know that there probably exist some exceptions.

Like this English woman who didn't see a reason to live anymore after her boyfriend died: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-life.html

I guess she must really have loved that guy. I would love to be loved that way by a woman but I suppose the likelihood of me meeting a woman like that are very slim in today's world.
Actually, one might argue that she was only devastated because she no longer had an alpha chad around, not because she loved HIM specifically. It's debatable.

But one aspect I haven't seen brought up here yet, but which I think is relevant to understand this on a deeper level somehow is women's love for their children because that must play in here.

The love I know my mother feels for me seems to be much more of the intrinsic love dynamic that I've always sought in a relationship. But no woman apart from my mum and grandmum has ever really given much fuck about me. I was the youngest child and my sister used to care about me but once I grew up and wasn't as cute anymore and once she had a kid herself, even she stopped caring about me and we never talk anymore. I acted like a beta for many years with my sister and sought her approval and wanted her to care as much about me as when I was a cute little kid.
But she's unbelievably cold to everyone nowadays except to her kid, even her husband.

And my mum might treat me better than any other person has ever done in my life, but she's usually not so nice with my father. It's like a lot of women just see a man as a tool to have kids meanwhile I think my dad would prioritize her over his kids any day of the week.