Dangers of "Settling Down" at 40+

Beyond Borders' posts have been great here.

Just to add one angle that I haven't seen addressed, aside from the "getting the hottest woman you can" one: I couldn't imagine having settled down at 25 with a wife and kids because it would just be so limiting in life options. Most men only hit their stride professionally, physically, and emotionally, in their late 20s. My mid/late 20s were years I spent moving country multiple times, working different jobs, experiencing different parts of the world, and using all of my time off to travel a shitload. You can't really do that properly at a younger age because you're too poor and under-qualified (and/or likely tied down to one location in university), and can't do it after raising kids, in your 50s, because your energy levels just won't be there - and because its not easy jumping from job to job at that age.

If you get married, settle down and have multiple kids by age 25 you just aren't ever going to get half the travel, life experience, career development etc done. But by doing all that first, you can still very easily start a family at 35 or 40 and get the family experience as well. But you'll be a far more grown up, well traveled, life experienced, high earning man when you're raising your family.

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Quote:So if it's so damn different for men at 40 than women then why isn't the forum flush with 40 year old guys jumping off with a stellar young woman? Why are some of the forum's top players with notch counts north of 100 having trouble locking down a quality breeder?

Because they do not own their mistakes.

Most girls are smart enough to notice your flaws. They will be willing to forgive you if you give them what they are looking for in a man instead of trying to remake the world in your image. But if you are stubborn and are trying to impose your will on her "because a girl must submit to her man," this turns into a red flag.

If for example you are bitter and jealous and demand a girl never engaged with other men or social media, any girl with wits will run for the hills.

But if you give her what she wants in a man and subtly drop you dislike social media, she will delete it by herself.

If she does not do it immediately, she will eventually when she realizes you are the best boyfriend she has ever had and wants to keep up with you.

My conclusion is that those top players witb a 100+ notch count are not able to give women what they want in a partner. Therefore, girls they date make zero effort for them and eventually run away.

Have you considered top forum players have a high notch count exactly because they fail to give girls what they look for in a partner while demanding those girls submit to their every whim?

How would you respond if you were a woman?

So these men end up bouncing from one woman to the next. Becoming increasingly bitter and nostalgic. Even going as far as claiming that Western civilization is doomed or that there is an anti-male conspiracy.

But if you are 40 and have a high notch count, many girls gave you a shot, were intimate with you but eventually were scared off. They saw you could not fulfill their needs and decided they would be better off with someone else.

From their perspective, they gave you a chance. You just didn't take it.

And if you keep screwing up chances with girls who are willing to give you one you will get an ever higher notch count but spend the remainder of your years single.

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Pure poetry from BB.

As much as I'm sympathetic to the plight of white men back home, the vast majority embrace a sociopathic individualism. That's why they're getting supplanted. Other groups actually demonstrate some solidarity, and not just with words either.

When I see that sociopathy and the disgusting state of white women - I have little motivation to go back home and fight the good fight for Western civilization. Unless theres a paradigm shift, their fate is sealed.

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I'm obviously not explaining myself very well.

BB's rise from the bottom is commendable in every way but I think it should go without saying that it's not what he would want for his own sons nor his daughters when they're trying to find a suitable man.

Strong family lines where even great grandfathers are still passing down their wisdom is the gold standard. For anyone with a reasonable income in the West this was once the norm.

So when I talk about "degeneracy" I'm not implying that someone who married and sires inter-racial children in a foreign nation is a degenerate. I'm saying they're a victim of today's (or rather yesterday's) degeneracy who's forced to choose at best a lesser form of degeneracy if they leave it too late. FWIW I absolutely fall into this category. So having gone through everything I went through (let's call it "BB lite") it fell to me to break the chain of flat-out degeneracy and reach for the highest standard I could reach for when it came to starting my own family.

And the highest standard we can reach for is something I believe should trump "an extra ten years fucking random sluts".

So even if a guy is from a shitty family I still say "get off the cunt carousel by 25 and marry into a decent tribe who mirror your ethnic and cultural ties to the greatest extent possible so you can break the chain of degeneracy as quickly as possible and get things back to normal so that in 20 years your sons don't have to log onto an internet forum for male driftwood in order to figure out what's what."

Conversely advice that says "spend that extra ten years fucking sluts and doing just whatever you want 'til 40 then marry into a foreign tribe where your kids will be denied a larger tribal identity" is not well thought out.

I'm not saying anyone that finds themselves in a position like that is a bad person. Most of us here are struggling to put the pieces of the puzzle together after being blindfolded and spun around for most of our lives. But that doesn't mean we should lead other men down the same jagged path to a lesser outcome than we managed, just because we've found a semblance of happiness. The new guys can do better than us and we're obligated to warn them against making the same mistakes.

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Nobody argues that fucking sluts indefinitely is a bad idea for most men. Most men will want to make a family of their own.

Not sure how moving to bumsville though and marrying farmer joe's teenage daughter is a societal remedy. Doesn't change the fact that the rural areas are economic catastrophes and your sons will need to go to the big cities if they want high paying jobs. Nor does it stop the flow of immigrants and demographic changes that will see your tribe displaced.

It's escapism not really any different from those of us who've moved abroad. It's putting a bandaid on a wound, but wont stop the rot of the civilization. Your kids or their kids will be left with the fight or flight decision when the rural areas also get invaded.

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(05-11-2019 11:29 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  Nobody argues that fucking sluts indefinitely is a bad idea for most men. Most men will want to make a family of their own.

Not sure how moving to bumsville though and marrying farmer joe's teenage daughter is a societal remedy. Doesn't change the fact that the rural areas are economic catastrophes and your sons will need to go to the big cities if they want high paying jobs. Nor does it stop the flow of immigrants and demographic changes that will see your tribe displaced.

It's escapism not really any different from those of us who've moved abroad. It's putting a bandaid on a wound, but wont stop the rot of the civilization. Your kids or their kids will be left with the fight or flight decision when the rural areas also get invaded.

Shifting the goalposts much?

I never said I was presenting a one-step solution to save the West but that's where you took it so I think for you this is all about something else quite apart from what options young men have for when/where to start a family.

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Fair enough.

But you can't call those of us who've expatriated degenerates when your own actions are doing nothing to stem the tide. That family tree has poor prospects if the deluge of immigration continues. If you're lucky, you might pass the buck a couple generations.

The biggest fallacy in the West is individuals (or families in your case) thinking they can wall themselves off from the decay. I'd say Western civilization has one (violent) opportunity to recover but it'd have to happen with this generation. Leonardo D V will be an asiatic lion amongst the races. Beautiful and majestic - but his homeland and numbers a mere fraction of what they used to be. Or he might just be a liger.

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I pretty much did everything against my own advice. I settled down too late, I married a woman my own age that I knew closely since 24. She is mixed race and my son is busy learning a language in order to be able communicate with his grandma. I am mixed race but my dad took Anglo culture and turned his back from the violence, drug use and self sabotage that is so prevalent in his culture. We will likely only have one kid together, and I really want more. I have an 11yo son in Switzerland I have never met and will likely never meet as I don't want to ruin their family. No player escapes this game without deep, dark memories that can come bubbling up after a bottle of whiskey.

What we have done as a family is not recommended. But I have never been happier but not a day goes by that I don't lament having done this all years ago.





But often the world needs men like me to help shape the next generation. I spend a lot of time with guys in their 20's and I know that my experience is helping to shape their 30's. When I get together with my older player friends, some of these young guys have a look of disgust on their face when we start telling stories. Almost all these guys just want a good girl, but are in the 2019 Meat Grinder and they see us as part of the problem. And we are - or were in my case.

In my city nearly all the happy families are mixed race with a white man and - usually Asian or Persian - wife. White men, it typical fashion, are ahead of the curve of their white female counterparts. They are running for traditional and conservative women in droves and in their final throes white women are throwing themselves into the arms of the players in a desperate attempt to convince the world their narcissism was worth it.

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(05-11-2019 12:40 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  Fair enough.

But you can't call those of us who've expatriated degenerates...

I think you missed the post above where I specified that I wasn't referring to expatriates as degenerates (or in any case I worded it poorly).

Again, what I was trying (poorly) to convey was that as compared to earlier times, having to expatriate and start a family in a foreign land with a foreign woman for any reason other than preference (shit western women, invasion of illegals, etc) was a degenerate less optimal outcome compared to what our forefathers enjoyed.

You may be right that invasion of the West in inevitable. I suppose a young man can always knock up farmer Joe's daughter now and keep his options for expatriation open if the worst still occurs.

Anyway. I chose my words poorly so that's on me.

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(05-10-2019 10:30 AM)Graft Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 11:24 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 01:24 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Am I the only one who noticed the irony about age gaps here?

(a bunch of brilliant shit)

It is not even the age gap, it is the toxic mentality of life getting worse with age and the helpless attitude towards it as well as shoving young men into marriage in their 20s. They are literally trying to rob younger guys of the prime years, it's pathetic.

I thought I was the only one losing my head but apparently not, you just put it in a much better way than I could. I also tried to fight nature but the truth is, there are winners and losers in life. There are the Dan Bilzerians, Hugh Hefners (RIP), and true playboys who make it and then there are the rest of the guys who speak louder than anything about how miserable life is as you get older and how you have no options.

There's a sort of delusion going on in the manosphere about men's SMV peaking in late 30's and the ability to consistently pull younger girls throughout your entire male life.

-snip-

See there is phenomenon Graft, it's called being a quality guy in order to pull quality women. You make it seem as if all men over 30 are hopeless in this regard while guys in their teens and 20s have it so much easier with top tier women around their age group.

The reality of the situation is that you have to be damn good, regardless of age, to get the hot girls in their prime.

You're right, most older guys are not pulling these kinds of girls but you know who else is not pulling them? Most younger guys around their age, even the ones who go to school with them and sit in the same classes with them. Think that the average 21 year old guy is balls deep in hot girls around his age? More like 5% of 21 year old guys are and even that is a generous number.

Men that get the hot girls in their prime are always an exception to the rule regardless of age. She is not just going for any guy in his early 20s, she is usually going for a guy in his early 20s who has a high SMV and I can promise you that it easily disqualifies 90% of men out there.

So yes it is delusional to say that a guy being in his 30s is automatically in a good spot because of age. On a similar token, it is also delusional to think that younger guys have that much of an advantage because the fact of the matter is, these girls you talk of are disqualifying at 90% of men in their age group as well. The guys around their age who are pulling these girls are in the top 5% of guys in terms of status, game, looks, and social connections.

Will a guy in his 30s, most of the time, be in a rough spot when it comes to pulling hot girls in their 20s? Yes

Will a guy with his shit together in his 30s who is peaking in life and a quality guy on paper be in a tough spot? Probably but he has a way better chance than most men.

The thought is that as men get older, assuming they learned the right lessons in life and made right decisions, most of the times they will increase in value. They'll be richer, have better game, make better decisions in terms of logistics, have built up nice enough status, and be well established to where some girls who are hot and young in their prime will want them (most still won't but that applies to how they see younger guys as well).

Now this doesn't apply if you were a trust fund baby or peaked earlier in life.

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(05-08-2019 10:24 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  When I saw "age appropriate," first thing that came to mind was, "20?"

Anyways...

Quote:The exception being one much older gentleman that married a "mail ordered bride."

There are some lessons here. Much younger woman. Guy has had his fun and just wants to relax (or is too old to want to go find the fun he never had). Broad is probably from a culture where women are not completely ruined, and gender roles are intact.

I started settling down (by all appearances so far, anyhow), last year at 37.

Met a 20-year-old Filipina. Took my time getting to know her and courting her. Devirginized her, met the family, asked her father permission to move her in (we may as well be married, and it's definitely expected by all interested parties). We're living together now in a beachside tourist town where I have a pretty big social circle, and she got herself a job at a local resort to stay busy.

I've found the transition to be pretty satisfying.

The difficult part was this: at one point I made a deal with myself to fully commit to the process of courting her...and without sleeping with other women at all. At first, we lived in other towns, and since we weren't having sex, I'd have my fun when she wasn't around.

But part of me knew that was deteriorating any chance of it actually working. She'd put a lot of effort into staying chaste and waiting for the right guy, and by not taking that seriously, I knew on some level I was making a mockery of the whole thing and robbing it of its meaning.

Which (this is important) robbed it of its meaning for me as well. This probably wouldn't have mattered if I'd led a normal life up to this point within a traditional society...but because of my past, I needed to invest time and effort into something wholesome in order to change. While I don't necessarily agree with Leonard's statement that you'll have to settle for an ugly girl, I do think it's a good idea to back off the casual flings if you do want to pursue something more meaningful.

And I also knew that without this there was a good chance I'd lose interest after we started having sex. That's when it'd no longer be a challenge. The only way to convince myself I was serious enough to not risk ruining her was to go cold turkey on the other broads for long enough to give it a real chance. And then take her virginity once I was sure I wasn't going to just use her and toss her to the curb.

Since it took quite some time to get her sexual, I definitely had some blue ball moments there. Almost lost patience with the whole thing. But after we started having sex, I haven't had any issues calming my itch to run out chasing other broads or party it up. I'm sure putting myself through that process is part of the reason.

Sure, I see other girls I want to bang sometime and even think about actually going through with it. But I assume that's natural for a man of any age no matter what his sexual history.

Overall, I find my life a lot more predictable, grounded, and satisfying. After years and years of living on the road - banging all kinds of broads and moving in and out of many short and long relationships I was never fully invested in, and getting lost in the nightlife - the casual sex was getting empty as hell. I felt alone in the world, growing more apart from family and friends back home but not having my own family or a social group of unchanging faces either, as I was constantly on the move.

Her waiting at home is a stabilizing force that keeps me from wandering out aimlessly at night looking for a piece of ass or just some company. I don't waste half my day chatting with sloots (new or from my past) online like I used to do sometimes when single.

And Filipina women are like a bottomless well of love and affection that never runs dry. I've been through some hard times lately and I tend to withdraw into myself, as I'm sure most of us do. A Filipina is constantly hugging and massaging and kissing and pampering you - it's just their nature. As I wrote this, she woke up and came out of the room and began her unconscious morning ritual, which starts with sitting down at my side and hugging me for about five minutes, as if just to reassure herself of my presence.

I've had a lot of women love me, but it's another level. Sometimes my impulse is to cut her off and get back to what I'm doing, but more and more I try to just appreciate the consistency of it and let her do her thing. And I've realized how rejuvenating it can be to just forget my problems and the world for a moment and stop fending her off and just let her work her magic.

Because at the end of the day it is powerful for me too. I submit to her affection and then get back up and face my problems and responsibilities again, renewed in spirit and mind. Submitting to that physical expression of genuine devotion and raw emotion has a power to wipe the slate clean like a hard session in the gym or relaxing massage at a spa just can't quite hold a candle too.

I mean, is this not what the love of a good woman has always done for men?

The biggest hand I'd say my past has in our relationship is that if we're in a spat I'm ready to drop everything on the drop of a hat while emotions are still running high. I know how many options I have, and I was a lone wolf for years, so I have nothing to lose, I tell myself. I don't need anyone, I tell myself. And have sometimes told her...

I'm sure it's hurtful to her and doesn't make her feel as secure in the relationship. I've always said a man should always keep the option of walking away in his back pocket, as it maintains a lot of his power. I still believe that. But obviously it does need to be tempered or she'll lose the faith that you're actually committed to sticking things through in hard times.

And allowing a woman to lose faith in your ability to be there for her can be the ruin of an intimate relationship. So I should probably find some balance there and only pull out the nuke button when it's absolutely necessary.

On the other hand, I was like that with girlfriends by the time I was 20 after getting burnt by a few broads hardened me to the antics of women. It may even go back further than that. I think it's also a coping skill I learned from dealing with my mom (alcoholic single mother); she was always toying with my emotions by verbally attacking me then flipping the script to guilt trip me as she sat there in her room and cried, waiting for me, the child, to take the responsibility of "fixing it."

My default from being emotionally manipulated like that became to act like I didn't give a fuck, almost like turning a switch off inside myself and growing stoically hard and indifferent to her, maybe even leaving the house for the night.

So anyways, don't know that my age and years on the road have much to do with even that. And I do think in some ways it's actually a strength when I don't get carried away and irresponsible.

Here's something other maturing players may want to consider: I think part of the reason the transition from lone wolf player to happily settling down with this girl is going so smoothly is because I pulled out all the stops and forced myself to take it slow with a good woman. It would be a lot harder for me to settle with a girl that's been with even a small handful of guys.

The old adage, "opposites attract," could apply here. By going for the complete opposite of what I had in my life - I'm getting so much of what I was missing as a man. By bringing exactly what I didn't have into my life, I appreciate it more. Because she's my polar opposite, it balances me out, and I'm a man who needed (who still needs) some balancing.

Having swallowed a handful of redpills over the years and lived in those realities completely, of course you're going to find it hard to put up with the average woman's shit. Or to limit yourself for a woman with average honor...

So don't settle for the average woman with her average honor, then. Make it one worth keeping around. Make it one who's proved her value - not with her looks alone but by the integrity of her character and behavior.

Because for all intents and purposes, a woman without a sound character is useless to me.

Do I still see the less desirable facets of the female nature shine through from time to time? Of course! She is, after all, a woman, and she's a very young one at that. If you don't punish bad behavior and reward good behavior in any woman, well, we all know what happens eventually. They'll get away with what you let them get away with and start the downward slide.

But because I'm so much more experienced in the ways of the world, because the power dynamic in the relationship is so far in my favor (thanks to her age, lack of experience, greater emotional attachment, conservative culture teaching her it's the role of men to lead, etc), and because I know what to look out for (thanks in large part to the RVF )...I'm able to nip it in the bud pretty fast.

It's the difference between training an untainted girl with a lot of potential and trying to turn an old post-wall hoe into a housewife. Which one makes more sense? Doesn't mean it will work 100% every time but certainly puts the odds in your favor.

Things could still go south - life is unpredictable. I'd be a fool if I didn't allow for that possibility.

Something definitely feels different this time, though, and as for now, I'm not missing the carefree, promiscuous life. On a side note, I could probably have my cake and eat it too in this relationship if I really wanted. That's certainly common in Filipino culture, but it just doesn't seem healthy or honest to me.

Could end up slipping up here and there, sure, but at least for the time being, I don't have any plans to be out rooting around.

I would say key "danger" to settling down older is you may miss out on a lot with your children if you don't live to a ripe old age. Hey, that's life. We're not traditional men around here with traditional lives, and I've seen older men be successful fathers before.

In any case, a little too late to be 20 again (I was in no way, shape, or form fit to settle down at 20), so why pine over what's said and done and gone? If fathering children is important to you, better late than never, I say.

40 or older and keen to settle down? Go for it.

Thanks for this post. It reminds me of my past relationship and why I didn't make it work. I miss this feeling of love with her.

Since the day I broke her heart, I've been a wandering, aimless, greedy soul. Breaking the heart of a virgin is like splitting your soul in half. How can I let myself believe I won't make the same mistakes again?

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(05-11-2019 01:38 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 10:30 AM)Graft Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 11:24 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 01:24 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Am I the only one who noticed the irony about age gaps here?

(a bunch of brilliant shit)

It is not even the age gap, it is the toxic mentality of life getting worse with age and the helpless attitude towards it as well as shoving young men into marriage in their 20s. They are literally trying to rob younger guys of the prime years, it's pathetic.

I thought I was the only one losing my head but apparently not, you just put it in a much better way than I could. I also tried to fight nature but the truth is, there are winners and losers in life. There are the Dan Bilzerians, Hugh Hefners (RIP), and true playboys who make it and then there are the rest of the guys who speak louder than anything about how miserable life is as you get older and how you have no options.

There's a sort of delusion going on in the manosphere about men's SMV peaking in late 30's and the ability to consistently pull younger girls throughout your entire male life.

-snip-

See there is phenomenon Graft, it's called being a quality guy in order to pull quality women. You make it seem as if all men over 30 are hopeless in this regard while guys in their teens and 20s have it so much easier with top tier women around their age group.

The reality of the situation is that you have to be damn good, regardless of age, to get the hot girls in their prime.

You're right, most older guys are not pulling these kinds of girls but you know who else is not pulling them? Most younger guys around their age, even the ones who go to school with them and sit in the same classes with them. Think that the average 21 year old guy is balls deep in hot girls around his age? More like 5% of 21 year old guys are and even that is a generous number.

I didn't say that all men over 30 were hopeless. I just said that myself and my friend who is well into his 30's are hooking up with barely legal hotties regularly. Both of us have learned a lot of game theory over the years but most of our success is due to factors that you can't learn on a game forum, primarily looks, lifestyle and finances.

Sometimes getting that prime woman is due to luck. It's a lot easier for a college student to be in the right place at the right time when he's surrounded by 60% women every day on campus or at a low wage job.

The women will be more forgiving of his lack of finances or game awareness because it's more socially acceptable to be dating a guy from XYZ frat than a game aware financially successful 35 year old.

The guys that I went to school with who ended up with the hottest girls cashed out during their last year of college when their status was high and wifed them up. Most of the other guys ended up with mid to late 20's girls barely above average. And these were guys that five years earlier were pulling young hotties all the time.

My dating history turned out different, but I'm the exception to the rule and very far from the norm.

Most older guys completely fail in their prospecting to younger women, by relying on cold approach instead of social media and social circle.

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(05-11-2019 05:00 PM)Graft Wrote:  

(05-11-2019 01:38 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(05-10-2019 10:30 AM)Graft Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 11:24 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(05-09-2019 01:24 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Am I the only one who noticed the irony about age gaps here?

(a bunch of brilliant shit)

It is not even the age gap, it is the toxic mentality of life getting worse with age and the helpless attitude towards it as well as shoving young men into marriage in their 20s. They are literally trying to rob younger guys of the prime years, it's pathetic.

I thought I was the only one losing my head but apparently not, you just put it in a much better way than I could. I also tried to fight nature but the truth is, there are winners and losers in life. There are the Dan Bilzerians, Hugh Hefners (RIP), and true playboys who make it and then there are the rest of the guys who speak louder than anything about how miserable life is as you get older and how you have no options.

There's a sort of delusion going on in the manosphere about men's SMV peaking in late 30's and the ability to consistently pull younger girls throughout your entire male life.

-snip-

See there is phenomenon Graft, it's called being a quality guy in order to pull quality women. You make it seem as if all men over 30 are hopeless in this regard while guys in their teens and 20s have it so much easier with top tier women around their age group.

The reality of the situation is that you have to be damn good, regardless of age, to get the hot girls in their prime.

You're right, most older guys are not pulling these kinds of girls but you know who else is not pulling them? Most younger guys around their age, even the ones who go to school with them and sit in the same classes with them. Think that the average 21 year old guy is balls deep in hot girls around his age? More like 5% of 21 year old guys are and even that is a generous number.

I didn't say that all men over 30 were hopeless. I just said that myself and my friend who is well into his 30's are hooking up with barely legal hotties regularly. Both of us have learned a lot of game theory over the years but most of our success is due to factors that you can't learn on a game forum, primarily looks, lifestyle and finances.

Sometimes getting that prime woman is due to luck. It's a lot easier for a college student to be in the right place at the right time when he's surrounded by 60% women every day on campus or at a low wage job.

The women will be more forgiving of his lack of finances or game awareness because it's more socially acceptable to be dating a guy from XYZ frat than a game aware financially successful 35 year old.

The guys that I went to school with who ended up with the hottest girls cashed out during their last year of college when their status was high and wifed them up. Most of the other guys ended up with mid to late 20's girls barely above average. And these were guys that five years earlier were pulling young hotties all the time.

My dating history turned out different, but I'm the exception to the rule and very far from the norm.

Most older guys completely fail in their prospecting to younger women, by relying on cold approach instead of social media and social circle.

Once again we are arguing in circles.

You mention things like frat and cashing out on status, that is not in the control of most younger guys at all and hot girls still care about status, wealth, and those kinds of things with guys around their age.

As for women being forgiving of wealth with younger guys, that is still not true for the top tier women of that age group. The sorority girls in the best houses are almost always going for either athletes or fraternity guys from rich families. Even most fraternities that are top tier only take guys from wealthier families and upbringings, they are rarely taking a guy from modest or humble beginnings.

When you talk about fraternity guys in nice houses, you're talking about the top 5% of men who usually came from rich families, did not have to worry about paying for school because it was all on daddy's money, and could dedicate all of their time to chasing tail. 95% of younger guys do not have this privilege in their lives, especially if they come from poor families and have to escape poverty or even strict families that repress them (which is all too common with the rise of helicopter parenting).

So just like you mentioned most older guys are screwed except for the top 5%, it is the same for most younger guys as well. At any age group, women are always going for the top tier men.

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(05-11-2019 05:09 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  At any age group, women are always going for the top tier men.

Absolutely correct. It is never easy to get a top-tier woman regardless of what age you are. People are talking about the possibility of a 40 year old pulling a 19 year old 8/9 who is also interested in starting a family ASAP... yeah, she's got 10 quality guys her age +/- 2 years going for her. Discussing that possibility is mental masturbation.

Is it harder to wife up western 18-22 year old girls when you're 30+? Definitely. However, I don't really think that is necessarily the best option to start a family, let alone the only option. 18 year old girls can be unbelievably naive and getting one to be committed long-term exclusively to you in the context of Western society is extremely difficult.

In the past few years, I've taken 2 virginities of girls in that age group as a slightly older guy. As far as I can tell, both of them are now on the carousel. I'm not proud of this, and perhaps in hindsight, I should have been more careful. When I really think about it though, both of them would likely be on the carousel anyway after losing it to some other guy who had smooth game and came across a little different than your typical fraternity guy ("Chad"). I just happened to the be in the right place at the right time.

The point is - what a girl wants when she's just barely moved out of her parent's spot and what she will want 5 years from then will likely be very different. You have to not only meet and deflower the girl, but also nurture her to be a good wife and mother while all of her friends are jumping from one dude to another. Doing that in the US is REALLY difficult regardless of how good your game is.

I think I would be perfectly happy to eventually wife up a 21-25 year old girl, who may have had a handful of previous partners, but who has the happy gene and who demonstrates her commitment to you repeatedly over an extended period of time. Those women are out there even in the US, and I don't think you have to be in your 20s to find one.

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There are some interesting perspectives in this thread.

The theme that emerges is what constitutes winning. Life involves continual risks and sacrifices. With each big decision, we sacrifice an element of lifestyle. The key is to make the best decisions based on the hand we are dealt. This requires understanding what is most meaningful to you.

The "Red Pill" community misleads men to believe that we are in full control of our success with women. This includes when we meet a suitable woman to settle down with. For some it will be early in life, others may find it middle age or beyond, while some men will live the bachelor lifestyle their entire lives. Each path has its unique set of pros and cons. I have friends who settled down early who are envious of the playboy lifestyle. I have also had plenty of conversations with eternal players who lament the "one who got away" and wonder about if they will ever have the privilege of fathering a son or daughter. Who is to say that there is one prescribed path for all men?

Control what you can control. Within an given interaction with a woman, we represent 50% of the equation. Men can be the masters of their domain as it relates to their social competence, maximizing their physical attributes (Style, fitness), and being authentic with their word. There are a multitude of other uncontrollable variables that have an equal effect on the outcome: timing, a woman's past relationship history, her emotional temperament, her mood, the fucking weather...

Another misleading narrative in the "Red Pill" community is that men can have it all. This is the same narrative that the modern feminist movement has been polluting the minds of women. They can have an exciting sexual life, raise a family, reach the pinnacle of their career all during their peak decade of 20-30 years old. We see the how detrimental this narrative has been for women yet, we seek to have and eat our cake as well. We want to travel the world, live the international playboy lifestyle yet settle down with a loving domestic woman when we grow tired of meaningless sex.

Men are also subject to this entitlement mindset. "We can have it all, and when we want it." Life is hard. Winning involves a bit of good luck in concert with, mastering what is within our control while recognizing the limitations of each decision.

Control what you can control. If you are lucky enough to have love knock on your door with a quality woman at 25, 35, 65- seize the opportunity when is is presented to you.

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Its really all preference and having a mindset of abundance!

Remember most men improve in time and a man in his late years of life can still have plenty of options so long as he has his shit together is finacially sound, maybe or maybe not in shape depending on the country and his perceived SMV.

Obviously if he is in shape and his health is on point not only does he have more options generally you wont know his age.

Plenty of older westerners setting down with younger asian, latina and EE talent.

Heck my pops stopped having children a few years ago into his 50s.(4 girls and 1 boy aside from me) His wife my step mother I can imagine is not not much older then me. My pops is late 50s soon to hit 60s and his wife is maybe mid to late 30s.

Considering the next oldest is 15-16 years old maybe older his wife had to be in her early 20s while my pops was in his mid early to mid 40s.

Who says its to late?

Now if you are stuck on a western women then maybe your options are more limited but ive met some older gals who can still hold there own and havent become obese baby factories.

But why settle when you can find a sweet femine women who enjoys her role as a woman and yours as a man.

If anything I would think to marry the first broad out of high school or college after only bedding a few women then getting divorced/alimony/child support raped or having a mid life crisis(as a result) is a far worse annoyance then enjoying women in your 20s,30s even your 40s and then settling down.

Sure there is something to be said about having children young and marrying young IF that guy still has game. A childhood buddy of mine is an example.

Dude has been married to his high school sweetheart but still got and probably still gets action on the side. Then again this dude was a natural and quite the charmer In HS.

I havent seen him in a couple of years but he had been with at least 7-10 other women during their current relationship and marriage

Today he has 2 kids a son and daughter and is the breadwinner of his family.

You think his broad will be dumb enough to leave him when she is a stay at home mom and has leisure time to sell reefs and homeade items?

Then again she has the courts on her side if things do go sideways but thats a moot point.

No matter which way you go there will always be tradeoffs and pros and cons.

Fortuanely ive dated some girls and hooked up with enough to realize what I want in regards to women.

Nature tells me to bust inside but my mind says "PULL OUT" haha

Also if I am going that route because condoms >_< and I trust the girl is clean ive made it a point to accept that if an

"oops moment"

Does occur that I can at least remotely enjoy her company and I find her highly attractive.

Nothing worse then a potential baby mama with a women who is broken, has some baggae or outright crazy.

(thank goodness I dodged that one tho it was close)

Be wary of the pump and dumped bitter types.

Sex aside because we know crazy chicks are generally great in bed the long term potential is less than average.

Unless you seek long term drama, headaches, insecuirty/ jealously keep them at bay or strictly physical/casual.

*****Best advice find her while she is young and impressionable or settled enough to know what she wants.******

To this day my 21 year fling and friend while she likes to party and have fun was totally ready to settle down with this 40 year old California gent named "Charlie" until he had decided he was going to go to Colombia without her after he promised her otherwise and she quit her job at Hooters!

Hes reason was im starting to fall in love

While it may have been messed up I was there to pick up the pieces.

If she hadnt been on her period I might of had a threesome with her 19yr old busty titted and wide hipped, luscious lips friend.( I did get to enjoy them in other ways)

Though eventually I hooked up with my original friend on at another date can I really blame the guy?

He knows them girls in Colombia are hot and ready and the FOMO kicked in.

I imagine he thought "What if" I settle for this girl because im falling in love and i miss out on this beautiful XYZ."(his case Colombian)

Something to think about gentlemen!

Maybe I will settle down later in life like my pops did but for now im all about chasing money/purpose and having the honeys chase me.

Until next time,
ND

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