Post: #1

If you decided to settle abroad somewhere and dual citizenship wasn't allowed, would you ever elect to renounce your US citizenship?

For me, even if I did find another country I liked, it would be hard to not think of myself as an American who just happens to be living in another country so I don't think I could.

Post: #2

Depends on the circumstances.

If I had all my shit lined up and could support myself no problem till I die without living in the US id do it in a hearbeat.

But then again if my paper was like that I wouldnt need to be a citizen of said country.

Take Brazil and Colombia for example. Id just alternate between the two 6 months in 6 months out.

So maybe I wouldnt after all.....

Now if for some reason my favorite countries passed a law forbidding american citizens from staying in the country then I would certainly give up my citizenship.

Post: #3

I'll start the process of renouncing my American citizenship in March.

Going to buy an economic citizenship in the island of Dominica ($100,000) + lawyer's fees for me, my Colombian wife, and 2 kids.

Once I do that, I'll renounce my citizenship and live income tax-free. Dominica doesn't tax income earned outside the country (all my income is made online).

Then I move to Panama, build a house worth over $200,000 and not pay property taxes on it for 20 years while getting on their pension program (doesn't matter that I'm only in my 30's, I'd qualify based off building an expensive house). Then I'll look into collecting passports (not citizenships) from Panama, Paraguay, and Latvia.

I'll also get my merchant account, bank account, hosting out of the USA and set them up in Singapore.

Anyone interested in this type of stuff and protecting their wealth should get on the sovereignman.com email list. I'm mainly using his Panama conference dvd's to do all of the above.

Besides saving money on taxes and getting outside the reach of American laws, a big reason why I'm doing this is for food and water security. Going to grow my own organic foods and meats. When the USA collapses and things get out of control, the US govt will use food as a weapon to control people. Kinda like how Stalin did to the Ukraine.

Post: #4

(10-23-2011 01:56 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  I'll start the process of renouncing my American citizenship in March.

Going to buy an economic citizenship in the island of Dominica ($100,000) + lawyer's fees for me, my Colombian wife, and 2 kids.

Once I do that, I'll renounce my citizenship and live income tax-free. Dominica doesn't tax income earned outside the country (all my income is made online).

Then I move to Panama, build a house worth over $200,000 and not pay property taxes on it for 20 years while getting on their pension program (doesn't matter that I'm only in my 30's, I'd qualify based off building an expensive house). Then I'll look into collecting passports (not citizenships) from Panama, Paraguay, and Latvia.

I'll also get my merchant account, bank account, hosting out of the USA and set them up in Singapore.

Anyone interested in this type of stuff and protecting their wealth should get on the sovereignman.com email list. I'm mainly using his Panama conference dvd's to do all of the above.

Besides saving money on taxes and getting outside the reach of American laws, a big reason why I'm doing this is for food and water security. Going to grow my own organic foods and meats. When the USA collapses and things get out of control, the US govt will use food as a weapon to control people. Kinda like how Stalin did to the Ukraine.

Very interesting plan!

Post: #5

I hear that you will still get taxed by the US government for ten years or something - even after renouncing citizenship and living abroad.

Any idea how true this is?

The main reason I would want to renounce my citizenship is to escape the outrageous tax-citizens-abroad laws that only the US has.

Post: #6

(10-23-2011 04:07 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  I hear that you will still get taxed by the US government for ten years or something - even after renouncing citizenship and living abroad.

Any idea how true this is?

The main reason I would want to renounce my citizenship is to escape the outrageous tax-citizens-abroad laws that only the US has.

It depends on your net worth and how much you make in income per year.

I believe you need to make less than 150k a year and have less than 2 mill in assets to not pay additional taxes.

I know it was changed to something like that.

Post: #7

No.

Post: #8

(10-23-2011 01:56 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  I'll start the process of renouncing my American citizenship in March.

Going to buy an economic citizenship in the island of Dominica ($100,000) + lawyer's fees for me, my Colombian wife, and 2 kids.

Once I do that, I'll renounce my citizenship and live income tax-free. Dominica doesn't tax income earned outside the country (all my income is made online).

Then I move to Panama, build a house worth over $200,000 and not pay property taxes on it for 20 years while getting on their pension program (doesn't matter that I'm only in my 30's, I'd qualify based off building an expensive house). Then I'll look into collecting passports (not citizenships) from Panama, Paraguay, and Latvia.

I'll also get my merchant account, bank account, hosting out of the USA and set them up in Singapore.

an interesting plan, but if you have $300.000 to throw around like that to begin with then your economy is hardly a problem for you to begin with. So I'm not sure what your goal is.

Post: #9

(10-23-2011 04:07 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  I hear that you will still get taxed by the US government for ten years or something - even after renouncing citizenship and living abroad.

Any idea how true this is?

The main reason I would want to renounce my citizenship is to escape the outrageous tax-citizens-abroad laws that only the US has.

This was changed and was only applicable between 2004 and 2008. http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/inte...45,00.html

Quote:Expatriation after June 3, 2004 and before June 16, 2008

Further, expatriated individuals will be subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income for any of the 10 years following expatriation in which they are present in the U.S. for more than 30 days, or 60 days in the case of individuals working in the U.S. for an unrelated employer.

I've wanted to renounce my citizenship for a while now due to political reasons, but the older I get I realize that there are still practical reasons to hold on to it. Until I get another citizenship its not something I'm going to think about very much.

It's going to be weird when I do, because I'm culturally American, I think like an American and I sound like an American. When people ask "Where are you from?" am I going to say "I was from America for 25 years but now I'm from Brazil." As much as I'd like to be Brazilian I am still very much an American and I can't change that.

Post: #10

(10-23-2011 01:56 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  I'll start the process of renouncing my American citizenship in March.

Going to buy an economic citizenship in the island of Dominica ($100,000) + lawyer's fees for me, my Colombian wife, and 2 kids.

Once I do that, I'll renounce my citizenship and live income tax-free. Dominica doesn't tax income earned outside the country (all my income is made online).

Then I move to Panama, build a house worth over $200,000 and not pay property taxes on it for 20 years while getting on their pension program (doesn't matter that I'm only in my 30's, I'd qualify based off building an expensive house). Then I'll look into collecting passports (not citizenships) from Panama, Paraguay, and Latvia.

I'll also get my merchant account, bank account, hosting out of the USA and set them up in Singapore.

Anyone interested in this type of stuff and protecting their wealth should get on the sovereignman.com email list. I'm mainly using his Panama conference dvd's to do all of the above.

Besides saving money on taxes and getting outside the reach of American laws, a big reason why I'm doing this is for food and water security. Going to grow my own organic foods and meats. When the USA collapses and things get out of control, the US govt will use food as a weapon to control people. Kinda like how Stalin did to the Ukraine.

I was looking at doing something similar, but your blue print looks spot on.

Post: #11

(10-23-2011 04:07 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  I hear that you will still get taxed by the US government for ten years or something - even after renouncing citizenship and living abroad.

Any idea how true this is?

The main reason I would want to renounce my citizenship is to escape the outrageous tax-citizens-abroad laws that only the US has.

Interesting, but not sure how they could enforce the tax if you're no longer a U.S. citizen and work/reside overseas.

The Congress did change the law a few years back to tax your assets if you are leaving the country -- so you guys who plan to renounce citizenship, when you try to pull your assets out of the U.S., you might want to look into how you can avoid paying taxes as if everything you have is a capital gain. Now that is some fucked up shit! Link below for details:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121193252276024279.html

Post: #12

(10-23-2011 09:27 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(10-23-2011 01:56 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

an interesting plan, but if you have $300.000 to throw around like that to begin with then your economy is hardly a problem for you to begin with. So I'm not sure what your goal is.

A lot of reasons/goals...

1. If I'm making over $1 million a year (I'm not now, but looks like I will soon enough), I'd rather "pay" years of 0% tax on it instead of 40% + to US govt that represents everything I hate and will just use my money against me. (Rapid wealth accumulation.)
2. $300,000 isn't a lot of money in the USA for the life I want to live. Right now I'm well below the $2 million net worth that triggers a 30% exit tax. The HIRE ACT that goes into effect Jan 1, 2013 will institute capital controls on Americans. Best to just get out asap before US govt gets desperate and puts more controls in place to keep wealthy Americans and their money in the US where the US govt can do/take whatever they want. (I'd renounce even if US economy was going good. I have to look at what's best for my personal 1-man economy.)
3. A better, happier, less stressful future elsewhere (true freedom).
4. Don't want my 2 sons going to American schools for indoctrination and dumbing down. (Plan to homeschool, but they're only 4 and 3 now and need a plan B just in case homeschooling is harder than I think. Not worried about socialization... plenty of other ways to socialize kids besides in schools.)
5. Don't want my kids growing up in typical American suburb where people/families are isolated from each other and barely know their neighbors and have no sense of community. (With my wealth advantage in a country like Panama, I could use the money to create the type of community I want my sons to live in while playing a "Godfather" type role in it. I can be a benevolent dictator at a local level. Pioneer spirit to create something that outlasts me... a community.)
6. Want a better, higher quality source of food that I have control over without any govt interference. (Don't want to rely on farmer's markets.)
7. Want to have more women and kids. USA isn't a good place for this, especially since I'm married right now. Need to set up my finances/wealth correctly so they're protected and out of reach of US and any other country's divorce courts... or at least limit their abilities to suck my wealth dry. (I'll take care of the women and my kids really well, but on my terms with me calling the shots.)
8. Health care system / costs in USA are ridiculous for entrepreneurs who have to pay everything themselves. (Better, cheaper options in many other countries. Not a fan of prescription drug culture of American doctors.)
9. Political statement... Fuck you US govt! I'm not your slave and I'm not going to suffer because most other Americans are ignorant sheep.
10. Even after renouncing, I still will be able to visit the USA for 4 months a year. That's plenty of time if I ever get homesick.

So the overall economy isn't really a factor (although the worse it gets, the more social problems it will create and the worse the US govt will react - so would like to avoid that). I'm not looking at things based just off the US economy. I'm looking at it from perspective of... is my life better being an American and living in the USA or is it better being a non-American not living in the USA.

Post: #13

I would need to say no.

While there are flaws with America, culturally, philosophically, and loyally I'm still American. It's where my friends and family are. Now while there are plenty of governmental, and cultural things I would love to change, I'm afraid my heart will always be with this country.

To each their own I suppose.

Post: #14

No. I couldn't envision a scenario that would compel me to give up my US citizenship. More and more I find myself wanting to spend time in different countries, but not to live. That US passport is too valuable.

Post: #15

(10-23-2011 01:40 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  A lot of reasons/goals...

1. If I'm making over $1 million a year (I'm not now, but looks like I will soon enough), I'd rather "pay" years of 0% tax on it instead of 40% + to US govt that represents everything I hate and will just use my money against me. (Rapid wealth accumulation.)
2. $300,000 isn't a lot of money in the USA for the life I want to live. Right now I'm well below the $2 million net worth that triggers a 30% exit tax. The HIRE ACT that goes into effect Jan 1, 2013 will institute capital controls on Americans. Best to just get out asap before US govt gets desperate and puts more controls in place to keep wealthy Americans and their money in the US where the US govt can do/take whatever they want. (I'd renounce even if US economy was going good. I have to look at what's best for my personal 1-man economy.)
3. A better, happier, less stressful future elsewhere (true freedom).
4. Don't want my 2 sons going to American schools for indoctrination and dumbing down. (Plan to homeschool, but they're only 4 and 3 now and need a plan B just in case homeschooling is harder than I think. Not worried about socialization... plenty of other ways to socialize kids besides in schools.)
5. Don't want my kids growing up in typical American suburb where people/families are isolated from each other and barely know their neighbors and have no sense of community. (With my wealth advantage in a country like Panama, I could use the money to create the type of community I want my sons to live in while playing a "Godfather" type role in it. I can be a benevolent dictator at a local level. Pioneer spirit to create something that outlasts me... a community.)
6. Want a better, higher quality source of food that I have control over without any govt interference. (Don't want to rely on farmer's markets.)
7. Want to have more women and kids. USA isn't a good place for this, especially since I'm married right now. Need to set up my finances/wealth correctly so they're protected and out of reach of US and any other country's divorce courts... or at least limit their abilities to suck my wealth dry. (I'll take care of the women and my kids really well, but on my terms with me calling the shots.)
8. Health care system / costs in USA are ridiculous for entrepreneurs who have to pay everything themselves. (Better, cheaper options in many other countries. Not a fan of prescription drug culture of American doctors.)
9. Political statement... Fuck you US govt! I'm not your slave and I'm not going to suffer because most other Americans are ignorant sheep.
10. Even after renouncing, I still will be able to visit the USA for 4 months a year. That's plenty of time if I ever get homesick.

So the overall economy isn't really a factor (although the worse it gets, the more social problems it will create and the worse the US govt will react - so would like to avoid that). I'm not looking at things based just off the US economy. I'm looking at it from perspective of... is my life better being an American and living in the USA or is it better being a non-American not living in the USA.

Wow, this isn't just some spur of the moment hippie thing - you've really thought this through! (We get a lot of new posters coming here just to vent) Apart from your solution to 4 (home-schooling is an enormous task) your reasons/goals are very well founded. I think you can contribute a lot to the forum with your knowledge of wealth management.

Post: #16

If you've been working and paying your FICA taxes for a number of years and have already qualified for Social Security (it takes 10 years of contributions, right?) it would be hard to give that up and go to some country where you will have no pension and no Medicare.
Noone is going to give you a refund of all the money you've poured into America's social security system, so you might as well stick it out and get something back out of it.

Post: #17

(10-24-2011 03:48 AM)K-man Wrote:  If you've been working and paying your FICA taxes for a number of years and have already qualified for Social Security (it takes 10 years of contributions, right?) it would be hard to give that up and go to some country where you will have no pension and no Medicare.
Noone is going to give you a refund of all the money you've poured into America's social security system, so you might as well stick it out and get something back out of it.

For a lot of people, sticking it out would seem logical. Most people are stuck regardless, so they'll have to stick it out whether they like it or not. I'm lucky that I'm not stuck and have options.

But by sticking it out, we'd then have to assume that SS as it is now will be the same in the future. It won't. It's bankrupt, the USA is bankrupt, and the who economic system as we know it will collapse sometime soon after the 2012 election.

Once that happens, all bets are off when it comes to SS payouts. We're not guaranteed anything. (Heck, Obamacare is already planning out healthcare/medicare rationing.) And even if we were able to get future SS payouts, they'll be adjusted downward. And in a collapsed, chaotic country, future SS payouts would be one of the last concerns for someone 20+ years away from SS. Day to day survival is the focus.

Speaking just for myself, I'm 36 and haven't paid much into SS. My future earnings are huge. Sticking around for another 30 years in a decaying and collapsing society and subjecting my kids to that chaos and societal rot in the hopes of getting back some breadcrumbs I paid into the system would be penny smart and pound foolish.

Any crumbs I would get back are dwarfed by all the tax savings (using my economic citizenship plan) I'd receive over those 30 years of being a non-American.

I'd rather live rich the next 30+ years (effectively doubling my income from tax savings and then doubling or tripling my standard of living on top of that by going to a cheaper country) instead of holding out for 30 years just so I can scrape by on a SS check. (I'm lucky that I'm not tied down to a job in the USA.)

I understand where you're coming from, but for me personally, that won't work. There's also a happiness issue. Why stay 30+ years longer in a country that you're not happy in and don't respect... or why be an American living in foreign countries if you still have to pay taxes back to the USA (for nothing in return) and still be subject to American laws?

I'll consider my past SS "contributions" as a write off. Good money shouldn't chase after bad money.

Post: #18

I wouldn't. Got too much invested to crawfish on a country I love. Besides, if America totally tanks, there will be a lot of 3rd world countries faring far worse. And I would hate to be a rich dude in one of those countries when the people go hungry.

Post: #19

(10-24-2011 05:54 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I wouldn't. Got too much invested to crawfish on a country I love. Besides, if America totally tanks, there will be a lot of 3rd world countries faring far worse. And I would hate to be a rich dude in one of those countries when the people go hungry.

I agree that being a rich guy in a country (or area in a country) that generally has low class shady people isn't a smart choice. You'd be a target.

But I think that's distinctly different than simply living in a poorer country (or area) that has good people, but they're simply poor.

I disagree that if the USA collapses that 3rd world / 2nd world countries will take an even a bigger hit. The USA has so far to fall since it's so far up the totem pole. Since poorer countries have a lower standard of living, they won't fall that much (if they don't rely too much on exports) compared to the big drop in Americans' standard of living. They're already used to a harder life/lifestyle.

Americans are soft. Plus there are parts of the USA that are already 3rd world and populated with low class criminals and an entitlement mentality. Once the freebies get cut off, they have no other options but to be even bigger criminals.

People in poorer countries (especially outside major cities) are more self-reliant. They and their govt's also have better finances than US govt and American people. They don't have huge mortgates or big rents. Food is cheaper. Everything else is generally cheaper except typical electronics and other specialzed products that are imported. They don't have huge credit card balances. Etc. Take away all the debt Americans use to prop up their lifestyles (same with govt debt) and then it'll be obvious Americans aren't so wealthy. It's an illusion. The USA is in a depression now, but all the debt is creating the illusion that things aren't so bad.

To avoid the possibility of any type of food issue for the general population, I'll be near the food growing region. So at least they'll still be well fed, even if other parts of the country are having problems.

Other things I personally plan to do to make myself less of a target and more of a valued and respected community member is to get in good with the local police, small business owners, and schools/kids.

I'll be more than happy to throw around money to keep locals happy and show it's in their best interests to keep me happy. Parties for the police (would be great if I can have a gun range on my property). Frequently stop in at local businesses to buy stuff and give them marketing advice and just get to know them as one entrepreneur to another. Paying for English tutors/teachers for locals and especially kids. Basically, just be part of the community and not be looked at as an outsider.

I just want to coach and develop kids. That's my calling in life. So if I can be a millionaire that spends most of my time training kids in baseball, weightlifting, MMA, football (doubtful in Latin America),etc... then I'll not only be happy, but I'll also have the kids on my side and parents happy that I'm enriching their kid's lives. So probably won't have any safety issues even if I'm the only rich guy around.

But yeah, each person is different and will have different circumstances. What my plans are and what I will be doing isn't a fit for everyone.

Post: #20

(10-23-2011 01:56 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  I'll start the process of renouncing my American citizenship in March.

Going to buy an economic citizenship in the island of Dominica ($100,000) + lawyer's fees for me, my Colombian wife, and 2 kids.

Once I do that, I'll renounce my citizenship and live income tax-free. Dominica doesn't tax income earned outside the country (all my income is made online).

Then I move to Panama, build a house worth over $200,000 and not pay property taxes on it for 20 years while getting on their pension program (doesn't matter that I'm only in my 30's, I'd qualify based off building an expensive house). Then I'll look into collecting passports (not citizenships) from Panama, Paraguay, and Latvia.

I'll also get my merchant account, bank account, hosting out of the USA and set them up in Singapore.

Anyone interested in this type of stuff and protecting their wealth should get on the sovereignman.com email list. I'm mainly using his Panama conference dvd's to do all of the above.

Besides saving money on taxes and getting outside the reach of American laws, a big reason why I'm doing this is for food and water security. Going to grow my own organic foods and meats. When the USA collapses and things get out of control, the US govt will use food as a weapon to control people. Kinda like how Stalin did to the Ukraine.

Big Nilla -

Tell us a little more about Dominica?

Have you been?

Break it down a little.

Post: #21

Big, I was wondering if you had any info on the New zealand foreign trust to move assets?

Also, I heard that St.kitts and Nevis( former british colony) had some great asset protection based upon your wealth. How is the Health care in Dominica compared to that of the Cayman Islands or Costa Rica? Any info would be great.

Post: #22

G,
For the Dominican economic citizenship, it's $70,000 for a single guy and $100,000 for a family of 4 (not counting laywer fees). The lawyer I'll be using presented at the Sovereignman Conference in Panama... http://www.nestmann.com

I haven't been to Dominica and all I know is from doing a bunch of google searches on it. Not some place I'd want to live from what I read. I dont' care about it. I won't live there. Just want to plunk down my money, get the citizenship and passport, and then go on my merry way. Dominica fits with where I'm at in my life. I need a citizenship fast and I need one where they don't tax anything. Whole process should take 4-6 months. I'll start it in March or April after all my internet businesses are set on autopilot.

For single guys who don't have kids, can speak Spanish, and don't mind waiting 3 years for a citizenship, Paraguay is an awesome option. You don't even need to live in the country and just need to visit once or twice in those 3 years. Then take a citizenship test. In fact, this is a good option for someone who wants to hold on to American citizenship (blah).

Latvia also has some sort of real estate passport thing too. Didn't pay much attention to that, but great option for guys who want to live anywhere in the EU.

Puss,
Based off the sovereignman dvd's, New Zealand is a bad option for trusts/asset protection. The best options are the Cook Islands, Marshall Islands, and St. Kitts and Nevis.

Health care in Dominica... no clue. I don't plan to live there and I doubt you'd want to live there either.

I have a friend who just started the process for a St. Kitts and Nevis economic citizenship. He goes down there a few times a year already for brokerage stuff and he'll just buy a $300,000+ condo to snag that citizenship.

To add, for banking, Singapore and Hong Kong are the best options. Also, I believe if you hire 10 Filipinos you can get a passport from there. So if you have an internet business, that would be something to look into since 10 full-time Filipinos is cheap. But I'm not familiar with the details on that.

Anyway, gotta separate out and spread the stuff out to make yourself bulletproof... citizenship/passports in say 1 country, banking in another country, asset protection in another country/jurisdiction.

Post: #23

(10-24-2011 06:50 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Anyway, gotta separate out and spread the stuff out to make yourself bulletproof... citizenship/passports in say 1 country, banking in another country, asset protection in another country/jurisdiction.

Just curious,did you sign a pre-nup? Do you have an irrevocable trust set up for the kids in the States or would you do that when you're over seas?

Post: #24

(10-24-2011 06:50 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  G,
For the Dominican economic citizenship, it's $70,000 for a single guy and $100,000 for a family of 4 (not counting laywer fees). The lawyer I'll be using presented at the Sovereignman Conference in Panama... http://www.nestmann.com

I haven't been to Dominica and all I know is from doing a bunch of google searches on it. Not some place I'd want to live from what I read. I dont' care about it. I won't live there. Just want to plunk down my money, get the citizenship and passport, and then go on my merry way. Dominica fits with where I'm at in my life. I need a citizenship fast and I need one where they don't tax anything. Whole process should take 4-6 months. I'll start it in March or April after all my internet businesses are set on autopilot.

For single guys who don't have kids, can speak Spanish, and don't mind waiting 3 years for a citizenship, Paraguay is an awesome option. You don't even need to live in the country and just need to visit once or twice in those 3 years. Then take a citizenship test. In fact, this is a good option for someone who wants to hold on to American citizenship (blah).

Latvia also has some sort of real estate passport thing too. Didn't pay much attention to that, but great option for guys who want to live anywhere in the EU.

Puss,
Based off the sovereignman dvd's, New Zealand is a bad option for trusts/asset protection. The best options are the Cook Islands, Marshall Islands, and St. Kitts and Nevis.

Health care in Dominica... no clue. I don't plan to live there and I doubt you'd want to live there either.

I have a friend who just started the process for a St. Kitts and Nevis economic citizenship. He goes down there a few times a year already for brokerage stuff and he'll just buy a $300,000+ condo to snag that citizenship.

To add, for banking, Singapore and Hong Kong are the best options. Also, I believe if you hire 10 Filipinos you can get a passport from there. So if you have an internet business, that would be something to look into since 10 full-time Filipinos is cheap. But I'm not familiar with the details on that.

Anyway, gotta separate out and spread the stuff out to make yourself bulletproof... citizenship/passports in say 1 country, banking in another country, asset protection in another country/jurisdiction.

Great post.

+1

Thanks for sharing the stash.

So you will get the Dominica citizenship, then live in Panama?

And then you don't need to pay taxes in either?

How often do you need to return to Dominica? (I looks beautiful by the way).

How do you like living in Panama city? (Or another place in Panama)

Yeah, I remember reading about the Latvian thing, you can get citizenship if you set up a biz there or something.

Post: #25

I'm not so sure about the need to renounce, unless you expect the man to be pursuing you at some point. It's not terribly difficult to get residency in many places around the globe - and then citizenship/second passport. A sham marriage might work fine for this. If you play the tax game fast and very loose - you should always have "an out" - in the form of a second passport, preferably from a state with no extradition treaty. Argentina has been welcoming dodgy types for many years - starting with both the Nazi's and the Jews - unlikely immigrant bedfellows no question, but Juan Peron welcomed anyone with gold, dollars or Swiss Francs. Long a favorite for those who need to disappear.