Post: #1

I don't know if it's just due to aging but I feel like I don't have enough energy. I often feel tired and lethargic. I work out and get exercise but rarely do I go into the gym feeling amped up and leave feeling energized. I usually can't wait to get through my sets and get the hell out of there. My quality of sleep sucks, so I know that's part of the problem I have to work on. My mom gave me some vitamin B-12 tablets once and said it helps her, but it did fuck all for me. Has anyone had good luck with any type of energy boosting supplements?

Post: #2

Sleep is more important then any supplement.

Are you drinking enough water?

Post: #3

its less "how do I boost my energy" and more "how do I fix things so my energy levels are normal?" If you feel tired/lethargic your levels are below 0, so the first action should be to return to baseline. Then, if you need boosts, you can shove caffeine and speed down your throat.

What're your sleeping habits, eating habits, how stressed are you, and do you take any drugs/supplements?

Post: #4

Cardiovascular exercise. Eat more fruits and vegetables

Post: #5

Talk to your doctor. Get some bloodwork done. Insulin and hormone levels might be messed up.

I was depressed for a while. Family issues. Went to see my doctor cause I had the flu pretty bad. She checked me out and asked me if I had any sleep problems. Thought I might have sleep apnea.

Clear your head first. Read, meditate, play guitar. Anything that lets you focus on something other than problems.

Start to eat healthier and periodically. I eat once an hour if I can.

Weights and pre and post workout nutrition.

Post: #6

Diet

Water

Sleep

Get all those three things in order and you will be fine. Just from your post I can already tell 2 out of those 3 are off.

Clean up your diet. You may be taking in to many carbs which are causing you to be sluggish all day. Replace your carbs with protein or if your not eating enough whole grains and such then totally cut out simple carbs. Eat more vegetables also, dark green veg especially.

Your pre-workout routine may be off. When I hit the gym usually I'm so pumped during and after I don't want to leave! Have a solid meal 2hrs-1:30min prior to you lifting. No animal proteins and limit dairy. A whole wheat bagel and a banana 2 banana, or a bowl of oatmeal is good enough. Take caffeine pre-work out if you need a kick in the ass to get going. This helps me out a lot and gets me over that hump.

Get the sleep in check too. I used to rely a lot of caffeine and sleep 4-6hrs a night. I can stay up now all day long without caffeine simply by just trying my best to get 7-8hrs of sleep in.

Vitamin B-12 does help a lot but I think you gotta get some high doses in to feel its effects. This should come after you normalize the 'Big 3' above. But this B-12 supplement I take is a powder of about 2mg (equals 33K% of Daily Value), I'll take two serving at a time if I need to and it keeps me going strong all day. With caffeine I find you get a different type of "rush" its kinda of got shady feeling to it (IMO). This shady feeling you can see in people as they fidget and clamor in the mornings at Starbucks for the morning Coffee. I prefer B-12 as I just feel awake versus the caffeine feeling of being super alert.

So get all 3 things in order and you should see results. IF NOT then go see your doctor as something maybe be up. If you feel normalize then start to explore B-12 as a supplement to help you through those long days.

One poster on this board pointed to Bee pollen also as a help for energy. I think it also had super high levels of B-12 whiten it which gave mad energy boosts .

Post: #7

(11-16-2011 01:41 AM)kosko Wrote:  Diet

Water

Sleep

Get all those three things in order and you will be fine. Just from your post I can already tell 2 out of those 3 are off.

Clean up your diet. You may be taking in to many carbs which are causing you to be sluggish all day. Replace your carbs with protein or if your not eating enough whole grains and such then totally cut out simple carbs. Eat more vegetables also, dark green veg especially.

Your pre-workout routine may be off. When I hit the gym usually I'm so pumped during and after I don't want to leave! Have a solid meal 2hrs-1:30min prior to you lifting. No animal proteins and limit dairy. A whole wheat bagel and a banana 2 banana, or a bowl of oatmeal is good enough. Take caffeine pre-work out if you need a kick in the ass to get going. This helps me out a lot and gets me over that hump.

Get the sleep in check too. I used to rely a lot of caffeine and sleep 4-6hrs a night. I can stay up now all day long without caffeine simply by just trying my best to get 7-8hrs of sleep in.

Vitamin B-12 does help a lot but I think you gotta get some high doses in to feel its effects. This should come after you normalize the 'Big 3' above. But this B-12 supplement I take is a powder of about 2mg (equals 33K% of Daily Value), I'll take two serving at a time if I need to and it keeps me going strong all day. With caffeine I find you get a different type of "rush" its kinda of got shady feeling to it (IMO). This shady feeling you can see in people as they fidget and clamor in the mornings at Starbucks for the morning Coffee. I prefer B-12 as I just feel awake versus the caffeine feeling of being super alert.

So get all 3 things in order and you should see results. IF NOT then go see your doctor as something maybe be up. If you feel normalize then start to explore B-12 as a supplement to help you through those long days.

One poster on this board pointed to Bee pollen also as a help for energy. I think it also had super high levels of B-12 whiten it which gave mad energy boosts .

I disagree. Mostly because I'm paleo (fuck grains) and because anytime someone gives me advice like "eat a carb packed meal X hours before Y event" I call bullshit. Would a caveman eat a PB&J before chasing after prey? No, that shit catches his eye and he GOES.

Not to say you can't optimize your eating habits by regulating macronutrient intake at different times, because this has seen to have an effect, but It's not a 'cure' for low energy.

Most people just need to lower their carbs and eat healthier (I'm talking 150~ grams a day which is pretty easy), get their sleep in check, and clear up some stress.

I also recommend, if working out is taxing, to change up your exercises. I hate doing certain exercises, but I fucking love chin-ups. I do chin-ups like it's no ones business because I enjoy it. Find a workout you actually enjoy and you might find yourself not so listless after all.

Post: #8

I had this problem for years, however my energy level boosted immensely when i visited a personal trainer. Find a personal trainer that makes you work hard, he will give you all the right set of exercises to do and if you doing wrong or you dont feel like doing them he will push you to go beyond your limits.

If you have the money, visit a personal trainer and you will be ok, i wish i had done that during my teen years, it really had a great effect on me.

Post: #9

The problem is that it could be soo many different things.

Eating a single food to which you're mildly intolerant can produce this level of fatigue, and it's very hard to tell which food it is.

In fact, if your sleep quality sucks, it's probably a sign that you're A. missing a nutrient or B. eating something you shouldn't be. (That's assuming it's not something stupid like noise or light at night, or not enough hours allocated to sleep.)

I would start not with supplements or any other fix, but with dietary cutting, i.e. an elimination diet.

Excluding vegetarianism, the human body can run on two basic nutrient combos:
Ketosis with high fat and no carbs
Non-ketosis with low fat and high carbs

Obviously a mix of the two also works. The above two are the poles.

The least allergenic carb source is white rice, assuming you're not one of the rare people allergic to rice.

You will also need omega-3's and micronutrients. The best meat sources for this are fish for oil, and shellfish for micronutrients. Or you can eat organ meat for micronutrients, and various grassfed land meats have better omega 3 ratios, and you can supplement with flaxseed oil.

I would recommend cutting all other vegetables for the elimination phase. Plants have various defense toxins against animal consumption, and it's very difficult to know which might be triggering a negative reaction.

You can be perfectly healthy eating zero vegetables - I've been doing it for years. You just need to get micronutrients from meats, which are a more bioavailable source than plants anyway.

The version of the elimination diet I recommend and use is the zero fat, seafood, high carb version. This means super lean fish, shrimp, and scallops boiled in a pot with rice is my meal every single day. If you're on the go, tuna in springwater and white rice. I can't do the low-carb fat version because my system is fat intolerant.

So, do your baseline elimination diet. If the fatigue disappears in a 3 days to a week, then you know it was something you were eating that you shouldn't have.

If your fatigue doesn't disappear - well that's pretty damn odd. The above diet should produce very high energy levels. I'd get medical testing at that point, including blood work.

What should happen is that your energy levels and mood rise to a high level. Then you can start adding in foods one by one, and supplements like ACV etc. Cordyceps and Tongkat Ali are highly recommended.

EDIT: I forgot to add, after the elimination phase I would look at fermented foods too. Or if fatigue is persisting, I would look at environmental allergens such as cleaning products, etc.

Post: #10

ALCAR (acetyl l-carnitine) will give you a nice smooth energy throughout the day without the sides of stimulants. Beta alanine and citrulline malate will help with improving performance, delaying fatigue and accelerating recovery. None of these should interfere with your sleep.

D.

Post: #11

Fuck, I was out at bars last night until last call, didn't sleep for shit, am eating a huge heavy ChikFilA breakfast sandwich right now, and I feel like a million bucks.

My biggest thing is drinking less alcohol and more water, all day, every day. So long as I do that, little else effects me.

Post: #12

(11-15-2011 11:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Sleep is more important then any supplement.

Are you drinking enough water?

I do think I drink adequate water. I always have some nearby. I don't often feel dehydrated or anything.

Doctor Wrote:What're your sleeping habits, eating habits, how stressed are you, and do you take any drugs/supplements?

I admit my sleeping pattern sucks, but I've suffered for years with shitty sleep quality, as in I wake up frequently during the night for no reason. I don't think I can sleep more than half hour segments. When I wake up I usually fall back to sleep within seconds, but still, all that frequent waking up means you aren't hitting that deepest most restful level of sleep. My night sleep is better described as taking 6 or 7 consecutive naps. I can count on one hand how many times I remember hitting the sack at night and staying sleep for the duration of the night. I think my dad is the same way so it might be genetic. Went to a doc about this and nothing came of it. Prescribed me some Ambien CR which I really don't suggest anyone taking as it makes you hallucinate and caused some other bad things to happen.

As for eating habits, I don't think there's anything standout about my diet, good or bad. It's not particularly healthy but not particularly unhealthy either. I do enjoy a lot of sugary stuff though. I probably ingest more sugar than I should. As for stress, nothing major and supplements, nothing really other than my protein powder after a workout.


Thanks for the tips guys, I'll research some of these things. I really envy some of those people that have that natural spring out of bed in the morning type energy. Every now and then I'll a day where I feel like I have an energy surplus. Those days I'll be in a more positive mood, I'm more sociable, my workouts at the gym are more productive, my thoughts clearer and more focused. That's how I'd love to be everyday. But when I do have those days, I can't necessarily pin it down to anything I did in particular, it just seems really random.

Post: #13

It's almost certainly your diet.

But after fixing that, if you still have trouble sleeping solidly, you might be a natural polyphasic sleeper. In which case, look into that.

But DON'T try that before eliminating the diet option.

Post: #14

From this very forum in a few other threads, Apple Cider Vinegar, the unfiltered all natural kind (Bragg's is the brand) and Bee Pollen which you can get at GNC or other health food places.

While I agree, exercise, eat, and sleep well are important, as someone who has a somewhat fucked work schedule that has me up crazy early I understand that getting enough sleep isn't always that easy. The ACV works like an instant kick in the ass, the bee pollen is a little more prolonged, but if you're on a big sleep deficit you wont notice a huge difference.

Another one is coconut milk. The type of fat in coconut milk cannot be stored in the body, which means its burned for energy. Mix a can of coconut milk with two packs of splenda and enjoy over ice. Its a ton of calories all at once that all go into energy for the body, its good stuff.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #15

(11-16-2011 02:22 AM)Docter Wrote:  

(11-16-2011 01:41 AM)kosko Wrote:  Diet

Water

Sleep

Get all those three things in order and you will be fine. Just from your post I can already tell 2 out of those 3 are off.

Clean up your diet. You may be taking in to many carbs which are causing you to be sluggish all day. Replace your carbs with protein or if your not eating enough whole grains and such then totally cut out simple carbs. Eat more vegetables also, dark green veg especially.

Your pre-workout routine may be off. When I hit the gym usually I'm so pumped during and after I don't want to leave! Have a solid meal 2hrs-1:30min prior to you lifting. No animal proteins and limit dairy. A whole wheat bagel and a banana 2 banana, or a bowl of oatmeal is good enough. Take caffeine pre-work out if you need a kick in the ass to get going. This helps me out a lot and gets me over that hump.

Get the sleep in check too. I used to rely a lot of caffeine and sleep 4-6hrs a night. I can stay up now all day long without caffeine simply by just trying my best to get 7-8hrs of sleep in.

Vitamin B-12 does help a lot but I think you gotta get some high doses in to feel its effects. This should come after you normalize the 'Big 3' above. But this B-12 supplement I take is a powder of about 2mg (equals 33K% of Daily Value), I'll take two serving at a time if I need to and it keeps me going strong all day. With caffeine I find you get a different type of "rush" its kinda of got shady feeling to it (IMO). This shady feeling you can see in people as they fidget and clamor in the mornings at Starbucks for the morning Coffee. I prefer B-12 as I just feel awake versus the caffeine feeling of being super alert.

So get all 3 things in order and you should see results. IF NOT then go see your doctor as something maybe be up. If you feel normalize then start to explore B-12 as a supplement to help you through those long days.

One poster on this board pointed to Bee pollen also as a help for energy. I think it also had super high levels of B-12 whiten it which gave mad energy boosts .

I disagree. Mostly because I'm paleo (fuck grains) and because anytime someone gives me advice like "eat a carb packed meal X hours before Y event" I call bullshit. Would a caveman eat a PB&J before chasing after prey? No, that shit catches his eye and he GOES.

Not to say you can't optimize your eating habits by regulating macronutrient intake at different times, because this has seen to have an effect, but It's not a 'cure' for low energy.

Most people just need to lower their carbs and eat healthier (I'm talking 150~ grams a day which is pretty easy), get their sleep in check, and clear up some stress.

I also recommend, if working out is taxing, to change up your exercises. I hate doing certain exercises, but I fucking love chin-ups. I do chin-ups like it's no ones business because I enjoy it. Find a workout you actually enjoy and you might find yourself not so listless after all.

Does evreything always have to be about fucking women? This man asks about not having energy when he is in the gym and I give him advice on what has worked for me.

If you have no adequate fuel in your body to power lift weights your foolish to think a successful workout will be the end result.

I have experimented with what times frames to eat pre-workout and I find 1hour is too soon and 2hours-hour & half are ideal. as my stomach isn't full and the energy is read to use. I have a fast metabolism so if I we're to wait 3hrs I would be hungry again or starved for more nutrients.

Your body needs carbs! You must not workout on a consistent basis, if you we're you would see how your body reacts when you starve it of carbohydrates. You will not make any muscle gains as your body eats away at its self for energy.

A bagel and banana are easy to carry around, a protein shake with oats in works well too.

Post: #16

speakeasy - what do you do for a living?

Post: #17

Quote:Your body needs carbs! You must not workout on a consistent basis, if you we're you would see how your body reacts when you starve it of carbohydrates. You will not make any muscle gains as your body eats away at its self for energy.

I added 50lbs to my deadlift in 2 months while in Atkins Induction, eating 20 grams or less of carbs per day, so I'm going to agree with the good Docter and call bullshit.

I've also tried some of those carb shots that are supposed to be designed to be taken before your workout to boost energy I felt like ass working out with that in my gut.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #18

(11-16-2011 04:30 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Quote:Your body needs carbs! You must not workout on a consistent basis, if you we're you would see how your body reacts when you starve it of carbohydrates. You will not make any muscle gains as your body eats away at its self for energy.

I added 50lbs to my deadlift in 2 months while in Atkins Induction, eating 20 grams or less of carbs per day, so I'm going to agree with the good Docter and call bullshit.

I've also tried some of those carb shots that are supposed to be designed to be taken before your workout to boost energy I felt like ass working out with that in my gut.

You will eventually plateau on your gains. Your new larger self will need more fuel to power its self through its workouts. Strategically taking in your carbs pre-and-post can yes get you around your need for carbs. But it will not work long term! You will do more damage than good if your are trying to lift weights and remain on little to no carbs.

I don't follow diet trends or type because THEY DON'T WORK LONG TERM!

How can sit there and say this diet will work long term for the rest of your life? Denying yourself necessary sources of energy your body is EXPECTING. I make the same gains as you and then some on a 75% committed workout routine.

You will plateau and eventually start to loose strength as your body searches for energy.

Why do people make complex a simple thing called diet? Sugars(carbs)>>FAT>> PROTEIN. your body goes in that order when searching for nutrients, by canceling out one you leave your muscles ripe for food since your body will be starving for energy. Aktins is only good for dropping weight. Anything else is a fools mans game.

High amounts of protein is hard on your system. You will be shitting out blood in your older years, with your colon backed up like a garbage dump. Unless your getting the equal amounts of fiber each to day to clear your self out your not doing anything for your body long term.

When you stop eating to FEED your self and start eating to FUEL your self you notice that bullshit diets and such are gimmicks. Solid, clean food will always win out as the best fuel for your body.

You could easily add 75 or 100 to your dead-lift in the same timeframe if you weren't shooting your body in the foot.

Just scanning these literature on ketosis type diets is a joke. "transforming your body from a carb-burning engine to a protein burning engine" .. Um no. "transformation" simple means introducing something new to your body which is was not designed to do and it cycling differently to deal with the stress. The body is a resilient and adaptable thing but when you start fuking around with basic chemical and nutrient needs for your body to run you might as well jump off a cliff.

Post: #19

Seeing as how I've been on a low carb lifestyle for about a year now, and doing great, with carb re-feeds roughly once a month, yeah I"m going with my experience over your claims.

And I like how you assume you know my workout routine since yours was 75% less committed.

I also like how you assume I could add 12 pounds a week to my RDLS without fail, every week if I just ate potatoes.

Now I dont stay in Atikins induction for prolonged periods, simply because there's no reason, the weight loss stops after about 5-6 weeks, and as I've lost more and more weight the weightloss is diminished anyways, but I rarely eat more then 100g of carbs a day and I feel great.

What pisses me off is YOU assume you know whats best for ME

I know whats best for me, and with all due respect you can fuck right off and stop trying to tell me, or others how to eat. I'll recommend low carb all day long, I'll never TELL anyone that its the only good way to eat.

Also look up Martin Berkahn at http://www.leangains.com who advocates fasted training and a low carb diets. Tell me that man or any of his clients are unhealthy.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #20

I don't assume whats best for anybody. I just call bullshit when I see it. Look. I don't care about anybody and their gimmicks, I believe that anybody trying to sell me something on diet is a complete tool. General knowledge on diet is almost common sense and should't have a dollar amount tied to it. I don't preach on how people should live their lives - I really have one line that I say and it's this:

Look in yourself for what is best for you for diet.

You are only a year and some in. when you hit year 3, 4 or 5 you will start to notice these things I told you in the prior post.

The only shit i'll try and jam down peoples throats is that they should look to their inner makings and genetic/ ancestral makeup for there ideal eating habits.

What will work for me won't work for you. But you can't deny how your body functions and process energy, that is universal for everybody.

But anybody tryna to pass BS as a stable and healthy lifestyle has to get called out.

Working out isn't a one size fits all like game. Maybe you just want a ripped body and care nothing for inner health - who knows. I'm not one to judge, nor do I care. I came speaking from the view of keeping your insides healthy as well as being able to gain large amounts of muscle, and boosting energy.

I still stand by the fact that long term your routine will cause damages or unintended results. Your RDLS will eventually blow out your back and your colon will be full of non-sense. But hey its just my opinion.

Its funny because we probably have do a lot in common in regards to diet we just come at it from different angles.

Cheers.

Post: #21

Quote:I don't assume whats best for anybody. I just call bullshit when I see it. Look. I don't care about anybody and their gimmicks, I believe that anybody trying to sell me something on diet is a complete tool. General knowledge on diet is almost common sense and should't have a dollar amount tied to it. I don't preach on how people should live their lives - I really have one line that I say and it's this:

Look in yourself for what is best for you for diet.

You are only a year and some in. when you hit year 3, 4 or 5 you will start to notice these things I told you in the prior post.

The only shit i'll try and jam down peoples throats is that they should look to their inner makings and genetic/ ancestral makeup for there ideal eating habits.

Cavemen didn't farm starchy crops and carb loaded stuff. They killed a bison and ate that, and only that for weeks, and maybe the occasional fruit or vegetable they happened to stumble on.

Quote:But anybody tryna to pass BS as a stable and healthy lifestyle has to get called out.

Working out isn't a one size fits all like game. Maybe you just want a ripped body and care nothing for inner health - who knows. I'm not one to judge, nor do I care. I came speaking from the view of keeping your insides healthy as well as being able to gain large amounts of muscle, and boosting energy.

I still stand by the fact that long term your routine will cause damages or unintended results. Your RDLS will eventually blow out your back and your colon will be full of non-sense. But hey its just my opinion.

Its funny because we probably have do a lot in common in regards to diet we just come at it from different angles.

Cheers.

You just lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. I started reading this and was going to accept the olive branch you were trying to extend, but after saying that, yeah no.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #22

kosko, I wasn't talking about women with my prey comment. It was a literal statement, not an analogy/metaphor.

And first hand experience trumps anything slung around.

You are also aware the body can make the glucose it needs from fat right? You could literally never eat a carbohydrate and survive - EDIT: I am not claiming that this is a good choice.

On topic...

Speakeasy, it's really hard for any of us to get an accurate picture of your lifestyle and provide advice. For all we know, you could be sleeping in a moldy apartment that is causing you to wake up, or maybe you were traumatized at age 4 and your mind rejects the dream state to prevent you from experiencing it again (total bullshit, trying to make a point).

So, as far as general advice goes, clean up your diet to the best of your abilities and try to get a natural rhythm in order. Stevepavlina.com has a few interesting posts on sleeping that you should check out.

Oh and you are most certainly getting your REM sleep. The body, when sleep deprived, will skip the fluff and jump straight into the most important sleep phase. This is why a 45 minute nap can make you feel like you just came on your ex's face. Great feeling.

Post: #23

I dont know if I said this already, but melatonin at night. This has done wonders for putting me to sleep without snowing me the next day, the sleep seems better as well.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #24

Paleo doesn't limit carbs if needed. You can get a ton from sweet potatoes with good nutrition as well. Caveman did have to eat roots too you know. Art De Vany and Mark Sisson don't look any worse for wear.

Post: #25

(11-21-2011 11:51 PM)kbell Wrote:  Paleo doesn't limit carbs if needed. You can get a ton from sweet potatoes with good nutrition as well. Caveman did have to eat roots too you know. Art De Vany and Mark Sisson don't look any worse for wear.

Agreed, but they also wouldn't have made the bulk of their diet roots and natural carbs. I'd imagine for a caveman carbs would come in waves as they found a large amount of something carb loaded (say a fruit tree) and ate all they could over a few days, then they'd move on going back to a diet of animal meat.


A lot of the low carb/paleo advocates out there do the same thing now, doing carbohydrate "re-feeds" or "feast days" every 2-3 weeks. I've take to doing the same thing, using the re-feeds as a way to get my fix for something like pizza, usually over a weekend.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men