Post: #1

There were a few questions raised about EE and Russian women with regards to money and game in this thread. Its become quite long now, so I thought it would be a better idea to separate this into a new thread.

iknowexactly Wrote:What I'm curious about is how HH's EE game differed from his Murkan game.

Roosh Wrote:Hooligan: If I were to read between the lines of your posts, I wanted to ask if you sponsor the women in your harem. Not so much if you think you sponsor women (since money is not important to you), but if they think it. I know this type of arrangement is popular and more-or-less accepted with Russian women, which you have the most experience with.

I believe that EE women, and even more than that Russian women, are some of the most misunderstood when it comes to money. They are seen as gold diggers quite often, and while its true of many of them, its actually a cultural thing with them. At the same time, money is often one of their biggest shit tests.

So firstly, understand that the USSR meant that EE had Russian culture and its language imposed on them. Even though most of EE countries are not historically Russian, there has been a major Russian influence there in the last 50 years. Also, a large amount of Russians moved to these countries too and often held administrative power, to the point that they are the dominate population in many parts. So the more time you spend in EE, you will often see an undercurrent of resentment towards Russians who are culturally different in many ways but also were kind of an "upper class" during communism.

Its important to make a few subtle adjustments based on where your target is from because of this. Russians are Russians and while many are actually integrating now, they hold on for dear life, even in western countries where many have migrated to. So there are some cultural differences between Russians and the rest of the slavs, often resulting in physical splits in entire regions or in cities. And there are cultural differences between Northern Slavs (Ukraine up) and Southern Slavs (Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, etc) who tend to have a bit more in common with Turkish, Greek and Italian culture too. This changes how you should be closing these women.

With Russian women, money is important to them because they believe that men must provide. They see a man who does not provide as weak. If you cannot put food on the table and look after her kids one day, you are not a man. They believe in traditional gender roles where men provide for women to raise children. Its something they aspire to because for them, a sole breadwinner is a sign of very high status for both of them. And the whole courting thing is part of the process, although they put out quickly.

At the same time, they HATE weak men, and if they smell weakness they almost seem to feel obligated to take them for everything they can. Anyone who thinks feminine women are weak have never seen a Russian bitch in action.

When it comes to money, there are a few golden rules. This is not about the pick up itself, although the thread is open so Ill answer what I can based on my experiences, this is more about how you handle Russian women and the money issue with them.

Treat them like they are in 1950 still

1) If you invite them out, you pay. Dinner, clubs and bars, lunch. Its old school dating with them. This is starting to change a bit and many of the younger women actually do offer to pay so there are going to be times where you wont be expected to pay. I would still recommend it though, because it does you good with them. They dont appreciate it, they expect it. Just like they know you are going to expect sex.

2) Do not buy these women things. They are romantic and for some reason flowers and chocolates get them wet, so little things like that are OK. I feel like a fag buying shit like this, but it gets your dick sucked it seems. But if they start ASKING for things, you need to come down on this shit hard. You cover costs when she is with you, you dont support her and you dont cover her costs when she is not with you. If you do, its going to go downhill fast. They will take you for everything they can.

3) Know that men having a mistress is common. And that there is no shame in it either in Russia. This is a financial transaction really. Basically the men support them as if they were stay at home wives, they become part of his stable. Its normally married men who tend to do this. Some women like the idea of being sponsored and seek it out. If she is constantly asking for things or tells you she needs help with rent, this is her subtle way of saying she is looking for a sponsor. You need to walk. Women tend to turn a blind eye to it all.

4) Age is not a problem. In fact, men between 30 and 50 are the most desirable. For men 50 plus, women in their late 20's and early 30's are on the cards still. You should be banging women in their mid 30's with ease when you are well into your 60's.

Money is not the be all and end all though. Most Russian men are broke and they still do ok. Also, the ratios are so high in Russia you have 7's that can end up unmarried. What this means is that for many of them any man will do, and they will often compromise. And they are still women, push the right buttons and they are going to fuck, no matter how thick your wallet is. You tend to find that the real knockouts though are going to be the most demanding simply because they know what their market value is.

Lastly, the reason why I say there subtle differences between Russian and local women in EE countries is because EE women tend to be a little less hardcore about the whole thing. But you need to make a few adjustments immediately as soon as you find out they are Russian. Most notably you need to go caveman and then start escalating quickly. Try find out early is classifies herself as Russian or local, play it dumb if you have to.

Post: #2

+1

HH, what would a Russian wife do if she found out her man had a mistress on the side? Would her reaction be similar to as it would be out West (divorce)?

Post: #3

(01-21-2012 11:48 PM)P Dog Wrote:  +1

HH, what would a Russian wife do if she found out her man had a mistress on the side? Would her reaction be similar to as it would be out West (divorce)?

In Russia?

She would ask him why his mistress is driving a BMW and she has a Lada I think that would upset her more than the fact that he is banging someone else.

She would throw her toys out the cot, but the chances of it leading to divorce would be slim. Most of them would know and expect it of wealthy men. Given western laws, they would probably go for the throat because they know they would be getting half.

They understand sexual dynamics far better than we do. Westerners live in a fantasy land.

Post: #4

(01-22-2012 12:12 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 11:48 PM)P Dog Wrote:  +1

HH, what would a Russian wife do if she found out her man had a mistress on the side? Would her reaction be similar to as it would be out West (divorce)?

In Russia?

She would ask him why his mistress is driving a BMW and she has a Lada I think that would upset her more than the fact that he is banging someone else.

She would throw her toys out the cot, but the chances of it leading to divorce would be slim. Most of them would know and expect it of wealthy men. Given western laws, they would probably go for the throat because they know they would be getting half.

They understand sexual dynamics far better than we do. Westerners live in a fantasy land.

Damm, Russian dudes are lucky. They don't even deserve it, most Russian guys I know look like ogres.

Post: #5

Holligan Harry Wrote:And they are still women, push the right buttons and they are going to fuck

Ok, but when it comes to Russian women, these buttons seem to be different than let's say latin or Polish or N. American girls from Canada. Can you break down what exact buttons need to be pushed, in what order maybe?

Mixx

Post: #6

(01-22-2012 12:12 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  Westerners live in a fantasy land.

Post: #7

(01-22-2012 12:34 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Holligan Harry Wrote:And they are still women, push the right buttons and they are going to fuck

Ok, but when it comes to Russian women, these buttons seem to be different than let's say latin or Polish or N. American girls from Canada. Can you break down what exact buttons need to be pushed, in what order maybe?

Mixx

Same buttons Mixx, its just that they seem cold at first. Dont let it put you off, plow through it, its how they are.

They like good looking men. They like sex and have good sex drives, they like to have fun, they like dominant men. Russian women when travelling are DTF. Women are women, and Russian women are not exactly adverse to ONS's, although they are not whores like western women tend to be.

The difference is that they understand the value of sex and are incredibly feminine, and they lean towards hardcore alphas as a result of that. Which means that when picking up you need to go caveman on them. If you fuck around with them you are going nowhere quickly. They see indirect men as weak.

Russian women are female alphas dude, outright. They get men to do things for them by offering up pussy. While our bitches think it weak, they would eat our women alive. This is how they dominate and compete with each other, through sex and material gain from their men. Its real yin/yang type stuff with Russian men and women. But at the same time they are not going to pass up on a guy who they like just because he does not have a BMW and a choice of apartments.

This is why when it comes to Russian women, you always need to escalate quickly. Dont fuck around with them. The only thing that works with any regularity is being direct. There is some element of token resistance they often put up, plow through it. They love MEN, not boys.

Be it a ONS or her wanting to give you kids one day, nothing changes in the initial interaction. Go direct or go home.

Another thing you need to lay off is the cocky and funny routines, negs, all that other shit early on, esp when you are coming to grips with them. You need to escalate hard, but you need to be respectful and not come across as being a clown or being rude. Being blunt is not being rude. Blunt works, rude kills you.

Post: #8

(01-22-2012 12:12 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 11:48 PM)P Dog Wrote:  +1

HH, what would a Russian wife do if she found out her man had a mistress on the side? Would her reaction be similar to as it would be out West (divorce)?

In Russia?

She would ask him why his mistress is driving a BMW and she has a Lada I think that would upset her more than the fact that he is banging someone else.

She would throw her toys out the cot, but the chances of it leading to divorce would be slim. Most of them would know and expect it of wealthy men. Given western laws, they would probably go for the throat because they know they would be getting half.

They understand sexual dynamics far better than we do. Westerners live in a fantasy land.

This is key. Most westerners truly do not understand or respect sexual dynamics.

Post: #9

Nice write up HH! Had two friends who lived there for sometime, pretty much told me similar stories. One of them was approached by an attractive women in a shopping mall, she understood that he had a girlfriend/wife and was still willing to "date" him on the side.

15-64 years: 71.8% (male 47,480,851/female 52,113,279) -source CIA.org

This stat simply blows my mind away, there are 5 million more women than men. Yes I am sure that most of the women will be closer to the 64 age mark, but still there must be alot of choice there to say the least.

I do well with EE women, not saying my game is out of this world. I find these women are much easier to deal with if they like you, but as HH says you have to be a man with them in general.
Communism seems to have done a number on them, most of them grew up under some rough conditions. So when they move to the WEST there is no looking back, western men will put them on a pedastal where in there "home" country they are one of many.

Post: #10

+1 for the reminder that they like sexual aggression.

I was in Ukraine escalating with very gradual touching-kissing with my 18 YO virgin GF, and she wasn't reacting. I was conscious of not being brutal because of her lack of experience.

I flat out asked her if something was wrong, if she didnt't like it. She denied any problems, and I realized she was just absorbing the new experience. She wasn't like a defeminized Murkabeest, who if they want it grab you like an NFL linebacker on speed. That doesn't turn me on, it's like they're acting like a guy!

I brought her to the west on a fiancee visa, I do not recommend this, too slow and too much time without pussy. She was maybe 28 years younger than me-- she didn't scam me but she backed out, went back, and it wasted a lot of my time and money.

I'm back for more (EE), this time I'm staying, and letting them know off the bat I'm not going anywhere-- to filter for ones determined to move to the West. I was almost engaged to a much younger medical student in Russia, but I backed out of that one-- she was a little too bitchy.
But as I said to my shrink regarding EE/Russia after that--despite the misfire-- "It's definitely the happy hunting ground."

You might think it's real smart for EE chix to want to move to the west-- Nicer Cars! Fancier vaccum cleaners!! -- but malcontent personalities here ( in EE) are going to remain malcontent personalities there ( in USA. ) So watch out for complainers. ALso watch out for women who would do real well in America-- I've met women that are a lot like American women-- very achievement/money/efficiency oriented. Like being married to an MBA. How romantic.

I won't bring anyone back to the west until the kids are at least 8-10 and her sexual market value is way down. Even if she ditches me, it's only maybe 8 years of child support, and the kids won't be spoiled brats like girls in the USA, or cowering Betas like me who have to study Game!.

Western women cannot hope to compare, their femininity has been irretrievably poisoned from multiple disease vectors for the foreseeable future.

Post: #11

Excellent thread and posts, thanks HH. Good post IKE. I've worked FSU with varying degrees of success. I learned something here.

Post: #12

HH, if a wealthy Westerner were to bring a Russian or Ukrainian girl back with him to the West. Would you advise him not to?

Post: #13

Its a mixed bag dude. I know guys who have done it and its worked out very well for them but I also know guys who have done it and seen it fall to pieces. I dont know anyone who went the whole mail order bride route, most of the guys I know that settled down with Russian and EE women actually met them in country, generally when they were stationed there. Some stayed and never came back, many brought their wives back with them. Marriages happened quickly though, as you would expect when so many of them were completely cunt struck.

I dont buy into this shit that women are completely westernised within a few short years. Whats more typical is that she realises that her own worth in a land of whales and drunk whores is far higher and she has so many options she does not know what to do with herself. It dawns on her quickly that she can do better. I dont care if they come from deepest darkest Africa or the snowy peaks of the Urals, women are women and they are all after the bigger, better deal. I think there is rarely malice or calculated planning on their part, although I will admit the one sided laws and anti male culture does not help at all.

That geeky, chunky foreign engineer may have been a catch in some backward Russian town, but he sure as hell is nothing special when he is back in Australia. If he is not landing 7's in his own country, why is a Russian 9 going to stick around? Everyone then blames the chick, when in reality the dude was punching way over his own weight and removed every single advantage a geeky, chunky foreign engineer had in that backward Russian town.

For me personally, I would not bring them back for good. Has nothing to do with them though, has more to do with kids. I do not believe that any western country provides the sort of environment that is good for children anymore. Too much confusion over gender roles, politically correct madness has replaced common sense, the sense of entitlement younger kids have these days, I could go on and on. Either which way, I will not want to raise sons or daughters in Australia.

Post: #14

(01-21-2012 11:27 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  2) Do not buy these women things. They are romantic and for some reason flowers and chocolates get them wet, so little things like that are OK. I feel like a fag buying shit like this, but it gets your dick sucked it seems. But if they start ASKING for things, you need to come down on this shit hard. You cover costs when she is with you, you dont support her and you dont cover her costs when she is not with you. If you do, its going to go downhill fast. They will take you for everything they can.

#2 is how I roll. I only buy them things that they can't sell for cash. Drinks, lunch, concert tickets. I've been guilty of buying flowers. I only do it if I'm really diggin on a girl and she did a good job of fucking my brains out. Girlfriend material girls. Very rare for me so cut me some slack on the flowers fellas.

Jewelry will get you laid in the short term for sure but it is meaningless to women. They'll sell it in a heartbeat if they need the cash. It's part of their purging ritual after a break-up.

Post: #15

(01-24-2012 12:04 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  For me personally, I would not bring them back for good. Has nothing to do with them though, has more to do with kids. I do not believe that any western country provides the sort of environment that is good for children anymore. Too much confusion over gender roles, politically correct madness has replaced common sense, the sense of entitlement younger kids have these days, I could go on and on. Either which way, I will not want to raise sons or daughters in Australia.

I totally agree. This applies to the United States as well.

Post: #16

(01-24-2012 04:32 AM)username Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 12:04 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  For me personally, I would not bring them back for good. Has nothing to do with them though, has more to do with kids. I do not believe that any western country provides the sort of environment that is good for children anymore. Too much confusion over gender roles, politically correct madness has replaced common sense, the sense of entitlement younger kids have these days, I could go on and on. Either which way, I will not want to raise sons or daughters in Australia.

I totally agree. This applies to the United States as well.

I'll go right ahead and third this.

The only folks who are ale to raise their kids reasonably well in this country reliably are the elite, and their club isn't really open to new members.
Maybe they go to prep/college/grad school here if I can afford it, but I'll try to raise them somewhere else.

Post: #17

Hooligan - Where would you raise your children then? You mention that Australia is a write off. I have never been there although I have some uncles and cousins there. I know a few London cats that just up and moved there (if you think Australia is bad, wait till you taste London).

Are all English speaking countries (Canada, US, UK) out of the question in terms of the right foundation for you?

What countries would be an option for you?

Post: #18

(01-24-2012 04:32 AM)username Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 12:04 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  For me personally, I would not bring them back for good. Has nothing to do with them though, has more to do with kids. I do not believe that any western country provides the sort of environment that is good for children anymore. Too much confusion over gender roles, politically correct madness has replaced common sense, the sense of entitlement younger kids have these days, I could go on and on. Either which way, I will not want to raise sons or daughters in Australia.

I totally agree. This applies to the United States as well.

Where would you raise your kids? Harry and username?

Post: #19

(01-24-2012 08:23 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 04:32 AM)username Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 12:04 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  For me personally, I would not bring them back for good. Has nothing to do with them though, has more to do with kids. I do not believe that any western country provides the sort of environment that is good for children anymore. Too much confusion over gender roles, politically correct madness has replaced common sense, the sense of entitlement younger kids have these days, I could go on and on. Either which way, I will not want to raise sons or daughters in Australia.

I totally agree. This applies to the United States as well.

I'll go right ahead and third this.

The only folks who are ale to raise their kids reasonably well in this country reliably are the elite, and their club isn't really open to new members.
Maybe they go to prep/college/grad school here if I can afford it, but I'll try to raise them somewhere else.

I wouldn't even think of having kids until I could afford to send them all to the best private schools. Then again and I'm an ambitious guy. Despite the horrible environment here for men, I wouldn't raise my children in the developing world. There's a very very good reason why so many people migrate from the developing world to the West and not the other way around.

Some of my cousins back in "the homeland" are living in what I consider to be poverty, while I'm being raised all bourgeoisie on the other side of the ocean. After having seen the conditions in which my parents grew up in and prevailed from, I could never raise my children outside of the first world.

Post: #20

Spain is an option, as is Greece where family is still important to people. South America has a ton of options too. Developing countries are not the worst places to be going. When you have money you can provide a lifestyle and an education that would be on par with what you have in developed countries.

Fact is, raising sons in this sort of environment is simply not on. They are marginalised from a young age and the entire system does what it can to work against them. And the last thing I want are daughters that have no respect for men and see no value in family because they have grown up on a diet of reality TV and politically correct, liberal propaganda.

First world living is the best option if you are middle class, but I really do believe that our culture is sick and it breeds more unhappiness than anything else.

Post: #21

(01-24-2012 10:09 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  Spain is an option, as is Greece where family is still important to people. South America has a ton of options too. Developing countries are not the worst places to be going. When you have money you can provide a lifestyle and an education that would be on par with what you have in developed countries.

Fact is, raising sons in this sort of environment is simply not on. They are marginalised from a young age and the entire system does what it can to work against them. And the last thing I want are daughters that have no respect for men and see no value in family because they have grown up on a diet of reality TV and politically correct, liberal propaganda.

First world living is the best option if you are middle class, but I really do believe that our culture is sick and it breeds more unhappiness than anything else.

When you have cash in a developing nation you basically can live a very easy life with access to cheap housemaids and cooks.

Might result in your kids getting lazy.....

Post: #22

Thats like avoiding chemo to fight your cancer because you are worried about losing your hair.

Post: #23

I left Ukraine a few months ago, but I still talk to this one girl on Skype. She so far has not asked me for money. It's suprising as I started seeing her back in August. Years ago I had a similar situation with a Perivan girl and Serbian girl -- both of these girls asked for money by this point. My Ukrainian girl must be thinking long-term. I have a feeling the request for support or money or something will be coming at some point. We'll see.

Post: #24

Damn Harry, you have been dropping some real gems..shytt!

First world living is the best option if you are middle class

Post: #25

(01-22-2012 01:11 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  The difference is that they understand the value of sex and are incredibly feminine, and they lean towards hardcore alphas as a result of that. Which means that when picking up you need to go caveman on them. If you fuck around with them you are going nowhere quickly. They see indirect men as weak.

This is why when it comes to Russian women, you always need to escalate quickly. Dont fuck around with them. The only thing that works with any regularity is being direct. There is some element of token resistance they often put up, plow through it. They love MEN, not boys.

Another thing you need to lay off is the cocky and funny routines, negs, all that other shit early on, esp when you are coming to grips with them. You need to escalate hard, but you need to be respectful and not come across as being a clown or being rude. Being blunt is not being rude. Blunt works, rude kills you.

This is gold. I'm still using my Washington DC game on them where I have to be their entertainment monkey + game to keep attention. Not so here. Within a few minutes of talking to a girl in a club recently in Russia she asked me what I was doing later. I smiled and was vague and messed around for a bit more and before I knew it she was gone.

Lesson learned.