Post: #1

I don't drink and don't enjoy going to bars. So, bootcamps aren't a good fit for me as they mostly occur in bars. I am interested in day-game and 1:1 coaching. Roosh no longer coaches. Can you recommend any other 1:1 day-game coach?

About me:
Live and work in Canada. Reasonably good job. I've been working out 3x a week for over 2 years. Perhaps 15% body fat, 160lbs, 5"10 - neither in-shape nor out-of-shape I am NOT white though but I did move to Canada when I was 17 so I still have some accent. Lots of international travel and quite a few DHV-able experiences. 34 year old. Recently separated (arranged-marriage). No kids.

Two recent events that pretty much sum up need for game:
# 1
I am visting Salt Lake City. Go for a haircut. Tell her I am from Canada. She mentions, she just moved from California. Very attractive. I want to ask her out but I don't. But as luck would have it, two days later, I find her standing next to me in a resturant order line-up. We both recognize each other and say hello. I want to converse and game her but instead I pull out my phone and get busy. She also pulls out her phone and gets busy. We are in the line next to each other for 15+ minutes and never talk after initial Hi.

Meanwhile, some random guy, perhaps 6-8 places behind us, yells Hi to her and starts talking to her from 8 places behind. He doesn't care there are people in between and they end up exchanging numbers. All this time, I am standing next to her, playing with my phone!!!!

# 2
I visit massage therapist. During massage, she gets chatty and opens up about her life. I find myself drawn to her as she describes her life struggle and how she overcame them. I am now attracted to her. But I don't do anything. Leave after massage and book another session.

Next session - I bring flowers for her but don't make a romantic statement. Just put them on the vase there. Proceed to massage, same deal, she chats, I mostly listen and leave.

Next (third) session - this is my last week in Salt Lake City, so before going, I am thinking of asking her out. But I don't. I do say things like, you are the most interesting person I've met here - such interesting life you've led. I wish you lived in Canada and we could chat more there. I like listening to your stories. She thanks me for the compliment. Tells me, you've my email, let's keep in touch.

That's it.

Aside from these two, there are other countless incidents where I've refrained from approaching. Girl on the bus-stop, waitress, girls in mall, girls in my gym, receptionist at my doctor's office, dentist office. Real-estate agent. Starbucks barista. Girls in office building (that don't work for same company as mine) and so on.

I am sick of this impotence. I'd like to do something about it. But I suffer from inertia.

I think - it'd be cool to take professional 1:1 coaching as starting point. Get some instant feedback, learn some good habits and then practice those habits on my own for few months. Then come back for a second session to further improve.

Even if I assume, that I somehow push myself to aproach women without any coaching, I think I'd be just doing bad/incorrect approaches. And lots of bad approaches would either de-motivate me or make me very good at bad approaches. I'd like to practie good habits from the begining! This way, I don't have to un-learn bad habits later!!!

So... Roosh isn't coaching anymore. Would you recommend someone else?

I checked out some other mPUA but looks like I can't afford them yet. But if you know of someone reasonably priced and reputed, please chime in!!

Toronto would be awesome, if you know of someone there. But US works too.

Post: #2

Apologies to the admins if I'm breaking any self-promotion rules, but I offer phone coaching if you're interested. First call is $30 for an hour, after that it's $75/hr and $40/half hour. I can do in-person in Miami, or NYC this summer. PM or email me if interested. [email protected]

Post: #3

You're overthinking things.

Stop thinking.

Just do it.

You'll learn from doing.

Whenever you want to chat up a girl, but don't feel up to it, just think of when you were right in front of a pool of cold water, and you dived in anyways.

And just do it.

Like the cold water, nothing bad happens, you're cold for a bit, then you get used to it.

Same with chatting up girls, it just may take a number of approaches until you get used to it.

Take the plunge.

Post: #4

(05-09-2015 02:51 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  You're overthinking things.

Stop thinking.

Just do it.

You'll learn from doing.

Whenever you want to chat up a girl, but don't feel up to it, just think of when you were right in front of a pool of cold water, and you dived in anyways.

And just do it.

Like the cold water, nothing bad happens, you're cold for a bit, then you get used to it.

Same with chatting up girls, it just may take more approaches until you get used to it.

Take the plunge.

Haha. I've tried this (what is the worst that can happen? I won't die. I don't have to see her ever again if it goes bad, and all other logical things I can say to myself) but I still don't move a muscle!

I've done a few approaches (< 10 all my life) but that's mostly when I am already in a great, cocky, funny mood and with some friends. Never done anything solo, cold approach. Generally speaking, I don't suck up to girls or pay un-necessary compliments. When I am in mood, I am cocky/funny. When I am not in the mood (99% of my life), I don't do anything. So, I guess, I am not making that too-eager-to-please-girls mistake that AFCs usually do. My mistake is even BIGGER - I don't even approach!!!!

Post: #5

Well, check out this thread:

/thread-14427.html

It has links to other threads on the topic as well, but ultimately, you just have to do it.

No amount of thread-reading or coaching will change the fact that you just have to do it, but all that reading may boost your confidence if it gives you some ideas on interesting things to say or do.

That said, it's not even really what you say or do, it's how you say or do it, and what that conveys to the other person about you.

But hey, if you do take the coaching route, good luck.

Post: #6

I think Roosh will be doing a tour where he visits a couple of main cities around the world, conducts a 4 hours sessions in each venue regarding game and relevant topics.



June 27 - Berlin
July 4 - London
July 11 - Washington DC
July 18 - New York City
August 8 - Montreal
August 15 - Toronto

Post: #7

(05-09-2015 05:02 AM)Geekzor Wrote:  I think Roosh will be doing a tour where he visits a couple of main cities around the world, conducts a 4 hours sessions in each venue regarding game and relevant topics.



June 27 - Berlin
July 4 - London
July 11 - Washington DC
July 18 - New York City
August 8 - Montreal
August 15 - Toronto

How much are tickets?

Post: #8

(05-09-2015 02:46 AM)Dagonet Wrote:  Apologies to the admins if I'm breaking any self-promotion rules, but I offer phone coaching if you're interested. First call is $30 for an hour, after that it's $75/hr and $40/half hour. I can do in-person in Miami, or NYC this summer. PM or email me if interested. [email protected]

$75 an hour for a grown man to talk to another grown man on the phone and tell him to get off his butt and talk to women?

(05-09-2015 02:29 AM)Redder Wrote:  I checked out some other mPUA but looks like I can't afford them yet. But if you know of someone reasonably priced and reputed, please chime in!!

There are plenty of guys on here who get new notches every week who would be happy to help you if you send them a pm. Most would even be willing to meet up with you for free if you buy them a beer. I can recommend many of them.

Post: #9

(05-09-2015 07:25 PM)TSC2295 Wrote:  How much are tickets?

There is a link to the details on the youtube page, and a thread about the tour here.

Post: #10

Are you still in SLC? I'm not a coach but we can sarge together and keep each other motivated to approach.

Post: #11

(05-09-2015 05:02 AM)Geekzor Wrote:  I think Roosh will be doing a tour where he visits a couple of main cities around the world, conducts a 4 hours sessions in each venue regarding game and relevant topics.



June 27 - Berlin
July 4 - London
July 11 - Washington DC
July 18 - New York City
August 8 - Montreal
August 15 - Toronto

Thanks. This is a 4 hour session with no in-field component. I am looking for 1:1 coaching where coach can force me to do many approaches, observe each approach and make insta-corrections to my approach style - from body language, to speaking style, to everything!

(05-09-2015 08:43 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 02:46 AM)Dagonet Wrote:  Apologies to the admins if I'm breaking any self-promotion rules, but I offer phone coaching if you're interested. First call is $30 for an hour, after that it's $75/hr and $40/half hour. I can do in-person in Miami, or NYC this summer. PM or email me if interested. [email protected]

$75 an hour for a grown man to talk to another grown man on the phone and tell him to get off his butt and talk to women?

(05-09-2015 02:29 AM)Redder Wrote:  I checked out some other mPUA but looks like I can't afford them yet. But if you know of someone reasonably priced and reputed, please chime in!!

There are plenty of guys on here who get new notches every week who would be happy to help you if you send them a pm. Most would even be willing to meet up with you for free if you buy them a beer. I can recommend many of them.

Please do recommend. We are talking about Toronto (Canada), right?

(05-09-2015 10:24 PM)edtf Wrote:  Are you still in SLC? I'm not a coach but we can sarge together and keep each other motivated to approach.

I am off to Texas for few days but I'll be back on Wednesday. Can meet you Thursday.
Friday - I head back for Canada.

Post: #12

Sorry I'm still taking finals so I can't meet til after next week. Good luck bro I hope you find what you're looking for

Post: #13

Damn dude not to be disrespectful, but you need to start from the Ground Up. You first need to read on Game Documentation! Roosh has the foundation laid out in Bang and Day Bang for you to get your feet wet.There's also countless other books from Game Gurus such as Juggler and the London guys (not mentioning their name here on purpose).

Since you want to Daygame, I would especially focus on the London guys. Only after you put in the initial work and then if you want to perfect things you go for specialized coaching. You're not having Approach Anxiety because you would have written it for sure in your initial post. At this point it's a knowledge issue since you just don't know what to do. Put in some work, and please no more flowers.

As a heads up, if you're located in Toronto, you're fighting a very very hard battle as a minority! I'm trying to stay positive so I won't trash Toronto in this post, but you'll have to also get your nutrition and training on point. Being in the Absolute best shape that you can be in this city is a must for anyone that wants to Game. After you put in some work if you want to hit the streets you let me know

Post: #14

I have twice the rep of dragonet and will charge you half the price

Post: #15

So let's get this straight OP. You're an older Indian man with an accent who lives in Toronto?



Uh yeah, you're fucking screwed. Put aside your dreams of picking up hot young girls in this city because it's just not gonna happen for you. Sorry.

If however you want to absolutely maximize your sex life and get SOMETHING then do the following. Don't go with a pick up coach just yet.

1. Leave Toronto. This is the most important. Don't even bother trying. If you want a clean, safe city where you can raise a family then it's great. But if you want a sex life of some variety and you are not an archetypally 'hot' guy (which you're not) then there's nothing for you there. Toronto is the world capitol of ethnicels (ethnic incels). As an Indian male your sexual value on the open market is close to nil. Unfortunately, most non-Indian prime women are repulsed by a brown face. The best way to put it is that you are the sexual equivalent of a fat black woman. So AGAIN, do not read through the rest of this list. Stick with point #1: LEAVE TORONTO. If however you absolutely MUST stay here, then continue on...

2. Get accent reduction classes. This point is both key and not key. An Indian accent is a huge DLV that will get you blown out instantly many times over. However there are two caveats. First, I doubt the efficacy of accent reduction as oftentimes it will leave the student with merely a watered down, or mixed, half-Western, half-foreign accent that sounds just as stupid and even try-hard. Second, getting rid of the accent will merely clean up your disgust rate - it will NOT translate to massive successes. Remember, the handicap is that you are GENOtypically Indian, period, not the little things you say or do. Conclusion: try to temper a harsh, hokey sounding Indian accent (if that's what you have) into a more posh, Bombay boarding school sounding accent, if that makes sense, and then run with it.

3. TAKE STEROIDS. YES. Start pinning test and other androgenic compounds immediately to become an Adonis within a year or so. With your Indian genetics and MORE importantly your age the harsh truth is that you simply will not achieve anything remarkable within an acceptable time-frame. You're Indian, over 30, accented, and Toronto-based. That's what we DO know. But on top of that for all we know you could be butt ugly, bald, poor, and autistic - you haven't even divulged those elements yet. With so many strikes against you, you need absolutely every advantage you can get. With a top 0.1% physique you can get the casual sex and multiple FWB relationships that elude just about every well meaning brown guy in the city. This will be the primary instrument of your sexual attractiveness.

4. Cosmetics (Hair). Like other Indians, you probably have high DHT genetics and are prone to balding. Balding is tolerable in a normal world where men are scarce and valuable. In the sausage fest of today's world however, it is a clear handicap, despite what all the shaved head, Jason Statham-worshipping copers might tell you. If you still have a full head of hair, and so do your male ancestors, then give your thanks to God, for he loves you. If not, and you are thinning, then get on the Big 3 to halt it: 1) finasteride, 2) minoxidil, and 3) ketoconazole. If you've got a bit of recession in the front and/or back, consider putting down some money for a transplant and then staying on finasteride. If you're too forgone then look into hair systems. They're quite costly, but good genetics or the illusion thereof are priceless, and hair systems are very sophisticated and realistic-looking these days.

5. Cosmetics (Face). As you're an over 30 guy I'm assuming you're old enough to afford and consider these things. In terms of aesthetics your face is of ultimate importance, and insomuch as you can harness the technology to improve it, you are a league above other men. If you've got a weak jaw, then consider augmenting it. If you've got a bird nose, then consider rhinoplasty to smooth it out. If you've bug eyes, then consider orbital implants to make them look hunter-ish... and so on. However, surgery can only work on your projecting facial bones. It will not change the overall size and dimensions of your skull. That, everybody has to learn to 'accept'.

6. Presentation. Consider getting tattoos to make give yourself the edge that girls are looking for. You can spend $3k on a bootcamp to learn how to make yourself "behaviourally r-selected" from some random mentally masturbating coach, OR you can actually DO IT and have something to show for it in the form of ink. Tattoo game is totally legit. It gets girls. It's fucking stupid and it infuriates me as to how it shows how primitive women are but it's the gospel truth. And then, on top of your badboy muscle shirt interior, have a GQ ensemble for the special occasions. Nice shiny shoes, nice fitted suits, nice colourful pocket squares. Girls who like your face will love this shit you're wearing beneath it like crazy.

7. Target selection. I've been brutally real all throughout and I'm gonna keep that up especially for here. Assuming you've followed the above to a fairly well degree, you've got 3 categories of women who will be into you:
1) Young White Fatass Whales. Again, as an older accented brown guy in Toronto you're gonna strike out at getting prime young thin white women, even if you've got all the above shit, and your job situation, in check. Straight up, you're gonna have to settle for chubsters. UNLESS you're injecting trenbolone acetate however...
2) Over 30 Whites. They would've rejected you in their prime. Now they're begrudgingly into you (sort of)...
3) Over 30 Browns. This demographic is an absolute yet oft-ignored goldmine for upstart brown PUAs. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. They swallowed the feminism pill but they couldn't swallow it properly like their white girl peers and they pine for a cool brown dude in their broken lives.

8. Target acquisition. You should mainly get these girls through daygame, online game, and hobbies/social circle/warm approach. For online game, assuming you've got the elite physique through the means I described (if you don't, THEN, I'M TRYING TO HAMMER INTO YOUR HEAD, GOOD FUCKING LUCK), you want to play an insane, ruthless, mathematical numbers game where you screen out for DTF bitches who want to come over and lick your abs. You can then put these girls into a rotation. As for brown girls, meet them through wherever, uncles, mandir/masjid/gurdwara, and fuck em and don't get feelings. Brown girls respect guys who can legit get girls other than them.

9. THEN and ONLY then, after you've accomplished all these value-maxing endeavours, enlist the services of an approach coach who will lower your inhibition and show you how to blast your value and your persona to the world at large.

So that's that. Now my advice may seem overly brutal, harsh, pessimistic, but it's the fucking truth. People can read it and whine all they want but in the end it's all just coping and grappling with a reality that spurns them. I've lived this shit for 5 years and seen how it is. I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

You can not follow my advice and live in a fantasy land and enrich some quack coach without ever addressing these elements I've laid out only to be in for a rude awakening at the end of it all. Or you can go back to arranged marriage land, because that's the best hope for 99% of brown guys, high value or not. ...Or... just or... you can accept that truth hurts and what's hurtful is true, and go with what I've said. Because I hope you do, I spent a lot of time typing all this out. You owe me a footwash and samosas. Shiet

Post: #16

(05-10-2015 02:09 AM)civpro Wrote:  So let's get this straight OP. You're an older Indian man with an accent who lives in Toronto?



Uh yeah, you're fucking screwed. Put aside your dreams of picking up hot young girls in this city because it's just not gonna happen for you. Sorry.

If however you want to absolutely maximize your sex life and get SOMETHING then do the following. Don't go with a pick up coach just yet.

Thanks for the tips. Accent is not thick - but I think accent reduction class is definitely a good idea, I'd try it. It'd probably improve my public speaking too.

No immediate plans of moving out of Toronto. Not for a couple of years. Though Vancouver market seems even tougher than Toronto's.

Target acquisition - once I get comfortable approaching, I'd approach whomsoever I find attractive (white, black, brown, yellow) and not limit myself to a particular subset of race-age. Though I've to say, I am probably not too interested in girls much younger than myself. So, 28+ is probably the age group I'd look into anyway.

Post: #17

I would start with goodlookingloser.com AA bootcamp. I personally never tryed it bit heard plenty of positive success stories.

Being an indian guy, bitches are prolly thinking you got money. I would play that card HARD.

I would buy roosh's book bang and begin with working on ur inner game. Your thought on woman (how you percieve them) understanding that they would cheat, lie, on anyone in a heartbeat will help you with AA.

Seems like your #1 goal right now would be to conquer AA and get some approaches done. Even if its just casual conversation.

Post: #18

(05-10-2015 02:09 AM)civpro Wrote:  So let's get this straight OP. You're an older Indian man with an accent who lives in Toronto?



Uh yeah, you're fucking screwed. Put aside your dreams of picking up hot young girls in this city because it's just not gonna happen for you. Sorry.

If however you want to absolutely maximize your sex life and get SOMETHING then do the following. Don't go with a pick up coach just yet.

1. Leave Toronto. This is the most important. Don't even bother trying. If you want a clean, safe city where you can raise a family then it's great. But if you want a sex life of some variety and you are not an archetypally 'hot' guy (which you're not) then there's nothing for you there. Toronto is the world capitol of ethnicels (ethnic incels). As an Indian male your sexual value on the open market is close to nil. Unfortunately, most non-Indian prime women are repulsed by a brown face. The best way to put it is that you are the sexual equivalent of a fat black woman. So AGAIN, do not read through the rest of this list. Stick with point #1: LEAVE TORONTO. If however you absolutely MUST stay here, then continue on...

2. Get accent reduction classes. This point is both key and not key. An Indian accent is a huge DLV that will get you blown out instantly many times over. However there are two caveats. First, I doubt the efficacy of accent reduction as oftentimes it will leave the student with merely a watered down, or mixed, half-Western, half-foreign accent that sounds just as stupid and even try-hard. Second, getting rid of the accent will merely clean up your disgust rate - it will NOT translate to massive successes. Remember, the handicap is that you are GENOtypically Indian, period, not the little things you say or do. Conclusion: try to temper a harsh, hokey sounding Indian accent (if that's what you have) into a more posh, Bombay boarding school sounding accent, if that makes sense, and then run with it.

3. TAKE STEROIDS. YES. Start pinning test and other androgenic compounds immediately to become an Adonis within a year or so. With your Indian genetics and MORE importantly your age the harsh truth is that you simply will not achieve anything remarkable within an acceptable time-frame. You're Indian, over 30, accented, and Toronto-based. That's what we DO know. But on top of that for all we know you could be butt ugly, bald, poor, and autistic - you haven't even divulged those elements yet. With so many strikes against you, you need absolutely every advantage you can get. With a top 0.1% physique you can get the casual sex and multiple FWB relationships that elude just about every well meaning brown guy in the city. This will be the primary instrument of your sexual attractiveness.

4. Cosmetics (Hair). Like other Indians, you probably have high DHT genetics and are prone to balding. Balding is tolerable in a normal world where men are scarce and valuable. In the sausage fest of today's world however, it is a clear handicap, despite what all the shaved head, Jason Statham-worshipping copers might tell you. If you still have a full head of hair, and so do your male ancestors, then give your thanks to God, for he loves you. If not, and you are thinning, then get on the Big 3 to halt it: 1) finasteride, 2) minoxidil, and 3) ketoconazole. If you've got a bit of recession in the front and/or back, consider putting down some money for a transplant and then staying on finasteride. If you're too forgone then look into hair systems. They're quite costly, but good genetics or the illusion thereof are priceless, and hair systems are very sophisticated and realistic-looking these days.

5. Cosmetics (Face). As you're an over 30 guy I'm assuming you're old enough to afford and consider these things. In terms of aesthetics your face is of ultimate importance, and insomuch as you can harness the technology to improve it, you are a league above other men. If you've got a weak jaw, then consider augmenting it. If you've got a bird nose, then consider rhinoplasty to smooth it out. If you've bug eyes, then consider orbital implants to make them look hunter-ish... and so on. However, surgery can only work on your projecting facial bones. It will not change the overall size and dimensions of your skull. That, everybody has to learn to 'accept'.

6. Presentation. Consider getting tattoos to make give yourself the edge that girls are looking for. You can spend $3k on a bootcamp to learn how to make yourself "behaviourally r-selected" from some random mentally masturbating coach, OR you can actually DO IT and have something to show for it in the form of ink. Tattoo game is totally legit. It gets girls. It's fucking stupid and it infuriates me as to how it shows how primitive women are but it's the gospel truth. And then, on top of your badboy muscle shirt interior, have a GQ ensemble for the special occasions. Nice shiny shoes, nice fitted suits, nice colourful pocket squares. Girls who like your face will love this shit you're wearing beneath it like crazy.

7. Target selection. I've been brutally real all throughout and I'm gonna keep that up especially for here. Assuming you've followed the above to a fairly well degree, you've got 3 categories of women who will be into you:
1) Young White Fatass Whales. Again, as an older accented brown guy in Toronto you're gonna strike out at getting prime young thin white women, even if you've got all the above shit, and your job situation, in check. Straight up, you're gonna have to settle for chubsters. UNLESS you're injecting trenbolone acetate however...
2) Over 30 Whites. They would've rejected you in their prime. Now they're begrudgingly into you (sort of)...
3) Over 30 Browns. This demographic is an absolute yet oft-ignored goldmine for upstart brown PUAs. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. They swallowed the feminism pill but they couldn't swallow it properly like their white girl peers and they pine for a cool brown dude in their broken lives.

8. Target acquisition. You should mainly get these girls through daygame, online game, and hobbies/social circle/warm approach. For online game, assuming you've got the elite physique through the means I described (if you don't, THEN, I'M TRYING TO HAMMER INTO YOUR HEAD, GOOD FUCKING LUCK), you want to play an insane, ruthless, mathematical numbers game where you screen out for DTF bitches who want to come over and lick your abs. You can then put these girls into a rotation. As for brown girls, meet them through wherever, uncles, mandir/masjid/gurdwara, and fuck em and don't get feelings. Brown girls respect guys who can legit get girls other than them.

9. THEN and ONLY then, after you've accomplished all these value-maxing endeavours, enlist the services of an approach coach who will lower your inhibition and show you how to blast your value and your persona to the world at large.

So that's that. Now my advice may seem overly brutal, harsh, pessimistic, but it's the fucking truth. People can read it and whine all they want but in the end it's all just coping and grappling with a reality that spurns them. I've lived this shit for 5 years and seen how it is. I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

You can not follow my advice and live in a fantasy land and enrich some quack coach without ever addressing these elements I've laid out only to be in for a rude awakening at the end of it all. Or you can go back to arranged marriage land, because that's the best hope for 99% of brown guys, high value or not. ...Or... just or... you can accept that truth hurts and what's hurtful is true, and go with what I've said. Because I hope you do, I spent a lot of time typing all this out. You owe me a footwash and samosas. Shiet

THis made me laugh and then feel depressed. Well done.

Post: #19

These women you're encountering in service roles are paid to be nice to you. Don't confuse that for sexual interest.

Post: #20

(05-09-2015 02:51 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  You're overthinking things.

Stop thinking.

Just do it.

You'll learn from doing.

Whenever you want to chat up a girl, but don't feel up to it, just think of when you were right in front of a pool of cold water, and you dived in anyways.

And just do it.

Like the cold water, nothing bad happens, you're cold for a bit, then you get used to it.

Same with chatting up girls, it just may take a number of approaches until you get used to it.

Take the plunge.

I think this is what I should be doing myself. Need to start diving in, fear of rejection cripples me sometimes.

Post: #21

(05-10-2015 02:09 AM)civpro Wrote:  So let's get this straight OP. You're an older Indian man with an accent who lives in Toronto?



Uh yeah, you're fucking screwed. Put aside your dreams of picking up hot young girls in this city because it's just not gonna happen for you. Sorry.

If however you want to absolutely maximize your sex life and get SOMETHING then do the following. Don't go with a pick up coach just yet.

1. Leave Toronto. This is the most important. Don't even bother trying. If you want a clean, safe city where you can raise a family then it's great. But if you want a sex life of some variety and you are not an archetypally 'hot' guy (which you're not) then there's nothing for you there. Toronto is the world capitol of ethnicels (ethnic incels). As an Indian male your sexual value on the open market is close to nil. Unfortunately, most non-Indian prime women are repulsed by a brown face. The best way to put it is that you are the sexual equivalent of a fat black woman. So AGAIN, do not read through the rest of this list. Stick with point #1: LEAVE TORONTO. If however you absolutely MUST stay here, then continue on...

2. Get accent reduction classes.

Wanted to reply again.

I think a lot of what you wrote is excellent advise. That said, I really don't think actions so drastic are required. You are overstating the problem. It's not nearly as bad as you think it is for men of color.

Bototmline is: if you meet a woman (I usually don't because I don't approach), and you make her enjoy your company (which I think they do, when I am introduced to someone), and through your conversations you demonstrate attractive qualities (confidence, passion, physical assertiveness/kino, some empathy, humour with some cockiness), you WILL develop attraction.


Accent reduction -> good idea. Not because accent is inherently bad, but simply because listening to foreign accent puts higher cognitive load on listener's brain and so it is just better to speak in a neutral/easily-understandable accent.

Working out, eating healthy is common sense and already part of my lifestyle. Sure, having a hot body would help but just being in good shape is sufficient not a particular disadvantage. I don't see myself using steroids. I am fit, I workout 3-4x a week. Don't have muscular look (probably genetics) but I am not fat or look unfit.

Everything else - hair, cosmetic, steroids, surgery - I'd pass up on those. There are so many other priorities in life (work, hobbies, travel etc) that there is no way I could do that even if I wanted to (which I don't).

Sure, women (of any race or color) may not wet their panties at first glance but that's not what I am going for and that's not what game is for. If I had movie star good looks, fame and money, it would be super easy even with weak game. The whole point of game is to
-> become confident in approaching women - and it's not like I put women on pedestal. I am naturally neggy, cocky. But usually only with women I've been introduced to. I don't go out and do cold-approaches. So, I end-up not meeting new women. The women I've been introduced to, I think, developed some attraction because I am naturally neggy/cocky.
-> once approached, become good at pulling all the triggers that create attraction
Which means, instead of randomly babbling stuff and hoping to develop attraction, learn exactly what causes attraction, get better at reading cues, body language and adjust your conversation and style in response accordingly.

My other problem I think is lack of kino or physical assertiveness. As I mentioned earlier, I think (whenever introduced to women), I've created some attraction but it usually doesn't go much further because I don't initiate touch. I am just not a touchy person to begin with. If the girl starts to touch me, hug me, I reciprocate but I usually don't initiate touch myself.

On the other hand: I am only speaking out of my ass right now. I have approached < 10 women in all my life. So, yeah, if (/when) I get over approach anxiety, approach 100+ women and find that it is going nowhere, I'd come back and re-read your post.

But for now, I think Step 1 is to get over AA. Step 2 is to get comfortable initiating touch and escalating touch. And yes, accent-reduction - I am going to look into that ASAP. It's generally a good idea.

Post: #22

Delete

Post: #23

What did you delete, Jaffna? Share whatever is on your mind. I don't mind criticism.

Post: #24

(05-10-2015 04:44 PM)Redder Wrote:  On the other hand: I am only speaking out of my ass right now. I have approached < 10 women in all my life. So, yeah, if (/when) I get over approach anxiety, approach 100+ women and find that it is going nowhere, I'd come back and re-read your post.

I was going to break down your response hardcore, but then stopped because you at least admitted this, so I will refrain.

Yes, I encourage you to try it your own way - do 100 to 500 approaches and 500 to 1500 outgoing online dating "approaches" following what you think is right. Experience is the best teacher. After that however regain your bearings and come back to what I have written, because you will not find anything more real. Best of luck.

Post: #25

I have a simpler recommendation. Two things: increase your general sociability, and find someone with similar ambitions.

Sounds counter-intuitive, but talking to guys has helped me a lot with talking to more women. If you can start a conversation with a guy you don't know, with zero concern or anxiety, then the threshold for feeling uncomfortable talking to a stranger generally becomes lower, including women. And not all lays come from the 'direct one-on-one' approach, many (maybe even most?) come from a kind of 'web weaving'. E.g. you make a new acquaintance, he just happens to know someone else there, you get introduced, that person brought a female friend and so on.

I'd recommend 'guys with similar ambitions' as the number one solution for approach anxiety. This will give you the second-party compulsion to approach that you are looking for, at no cost, and near equal effectiveness. If you find a local 'lair' or 'pickup society' or whatever they call it, since you've all gone there for the same reason, people are actually afraid not to approach, because they fear the internal social rejection of the new group more than the external social rejection of an unsuccessful approach. Utilizing this peer pressure is a game changer.

Also the Indian accent thing is true. Native English speakers find it annoying because it doesn't match the pronunciation patterns of English in a variety of ways. This page had some explanation: http://www.speakingyourbest.com/american...ction.html .

(Edit: link was broken)