Post: #1

What's up fellas,

I'm not sure how many of you out there might find this useful, but I just wanted to drop some intel about your rights with respect to reentering your own country when returning from a trip abroad.

I travel internationally several times a year; and ever since I returned from a trip to the Middle East several months ago, I sometimes get questioned, unnecessarily, by US customs agents about my travels from that trip, even ahead or in place of my more recent travels. Most recently, I was questioned extensively about my Middle Eastern travels when I returned from Canada back into the US on 9/11 (oh, the irony).

Being well-versed in constitutional law, I'm informed of my rights with respect to law enforcement officials.

I want to stress for those of you who may not know that no American citizen can be denied reentry into his own country merely for refusing to answer questions. Once you've presented bona fide proof of citizenship, like burnishing a passport, you may not be disallowed from reentering. Now, with respect to travel to other countries where you don't harbor citizenship, that's an entirely different matter. Any country where you don't have citizenship may choose not to allow you entry.

I get a kick out of seeing the look on the agent's face when I arrogantly respond to their facist line of questioning with a remark like, "none of your business." I usually get delayed for about 20 minutes before I'm free to return to my country.

For a very interesting anecdote full of insights about this issue, please look no further than this article from The Nomad Lawyer, Paul Lukacs: http://nomadlaw.com/2010/04/i-am-detaine...questions/

Paul is a gangster for that. By the way, he also happens to write about other interesting topics related to travel, like the pros and cons of being a digital nomad.

Anyway, I hope you guys find this tip helpful the next time you return from an overseas trip. It feels like the US government is increasingly treading on the slippery slope of totalitarianism, so I find it's always worth reminding those thugs who's in charge and who they work for. Good luck!

Post: #2

Yeah...for us folks with Top-Secret security clearances, we are TOLD (by our employer's security officers) that we do not (and should not) tell customs officers ANYTHING about our job. I DO LIKE telling custom officers who ask probing questions about my job "You don't need to know that". The thing is some of the more experienced custom officers who see this, will tell the probing officer "umm...let him go".

Post: #3

So wait... after a trip abroad when a customs officer asks if my trip was "business" or not, I don't need to answer at all? I did not know that.

Post: #4

(12-12-2011 08:51 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  What's up fellas,

I'm not sure how many of you out there might find this useful, but I just wanted to drop some intel about your rights with respect to reentering your own country when returning from a trip abroad.

I travel internationally several times a year; and ever since I returned from a trip to the Middle East several months ago, I sometimes get questioned, unnecessarily, by US customs agents about my travels from that trip, even ahead or in place of my more recent travels. Most recently, I was questioned extensively about my Middle Eastern travels when I returned from Canada back into the US on 9/11 (oh, the irony).

Being well-versed in constitutional law, I'm informed of my rights with respect to law enforcement officials.

I want to stress for those of you who may not know that no American citizen can be denied reentry into his own country merely for refusing to answer questions. Once you've presented bona fide proof of citizenship, like burnishing a passport, you may not be disallowed from reentering. Now, with respect to travel to other countries where you don't harbor citizenship, that's an entirely different matter. Any country where you don't have citizenship may choose not to allow you entry.

I get a kick out of seeing the look on the agent's face when I arrogantly respond to their facist line of questioning with a remark like, "none of your business." I usually get delayed for about 20 minutes before I'm free to return to my country.

For a very interesting anecdote full of insights about this issue, please look no further than this article from The Nomad Lawyer, Paul Lukacs: http://nomadlaw.com/2010/04/i-am-detaine...questions/

Paul is a gangster for that. By the way, he also happens to write about other interesting topics related to travel, like the pros and cons of being a digital nomad.

Anyway, I hope you guys find this tip helpful the next time you return from an overseas trip. It feels like the US government is increasingly treading on the slippery slope of totalitarianism, so I find it's always worth reminding those thugs who's in charge and who they work for. Good luck!

(12-12-2011 09:23 PM)Roosh Wrote:  So wait... after a trip abroad when a customs officer asks if my trip was "business" or not, I don't need to answer at all? I did not know that.

Yeah, me either!

Thanks a lot for this. I get hassled every time I fly through now for the simple reason that I've only got one or two bags and that is a red flag to them. They honestly searched through all my shit the last two times, even looking through my $#%ing pictures in my album, which was awkward because my thai gf seriously looks like she's 13 years old (planning to ditch the album for now on).

It pisses me off and I've been on the verge of deciding to never fly into the states again and only come across the border. I'm doing some more research but if I can exercise my rights in this way I would love it.

I used to love pulling this shit with cops back in the states. It drives them nuts when they realize you know your rights. I honestly feel dumb I haven't done more research on what my rights are at the airport yet - for some wierd reason I just took it for granted I didn't haven any when I decided to come through there.

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #5

Couple questions, but first some backstory.

I noticed the same thing recently after I landed in Miami on a flight from Peru. The guy asked a ton of intrusive questions, like why I was in South America and how I paid for the trip, etc. I answered them all pretty conversationally and casually, since it was my first time going through customs to re-enter my own country and I was somewhat unsure of how to handle the situation. I tend to be pretty assertive and friendly with most people who work at airports, and at the end he commented on how my female companion was pretty cute so I figured he was more bored than suspicious, but still it was a very unsettling experience.

I'm a little apprehensive to say "none of your business," since I'm young and Middle Eastern (Iranian) so already I am treated like a suspect even though I was born and raised in the States. Is there any sort of ramification that I would encounter by being so blunt and defensive? I'd hate to miss a connecting flight due to a little bit of egotism in customs. Also, what kind of treatment should I expect from a polite and well-trained Customs officer?

If there are any other Middle-Eastern citizens of the USA on this forum who travel often, I'd be very interested in what you have to say on this subject.

Post: #6

(12-12-2011 09:23 PM)Roosh Wrote:  So wait... after a trip abroad when a customs officer asks if my trip was "business" or not, I don't need to answer at all? I did not know that.

That question is actually a trap. See answer no. 4 in this article: http://nomadlaw.com/2010/09/10-brief-res...t-control/

Post: #7

(12-12-2011 09:33 PM)polymath Wrote:  Couple questions, but first some backstory.

I noticed the same thing recently after I landed in Miami on a flight from Peru. The guy asked a ton of intrusive questions, like why I was in South America and how I paid for the trip, etc. I answered them all pretty conversationally and casually, since it was my first time going through customs to re-enter my own country and I was somewhat unsure of how to handle the situation. I tend to be pretty assertive and friendly with most people who work at airports, and at the end he commented on how my female companion was pretty cute so I figured he was more bored than suspicious, but still it was a very unsettling experience.

I'm a little apprehensive to say "none of your business," since I'm young and Middle Eastern (Iranian) so already I am treated like a suspect even though I was born and raised in the States. Is there any sort of ramification that I would encounter by being so blunt and defensive? I'd hate to miss a connecting flight due to a little bit of egotism in customs. Also, what kind of treatment should I expect from a polite and well-trained Customs officer?

If there are any other Middle-Eastern citizens of the USA on this forum who travel often, I'd be very interested in what you have to say on this subject.

More important than your ethnic origins is your status as an American citizen. As such, the only thing you need to provide to reenter the US is your proof of citizenship. You are not required to answer the questions from the customs agent.

As for your treatment question, it all depends. When I initially returned from the Middle East several months ago, an Asian-American customs agent greeted me at San Francisco Airport and simply said, "welcome home," much to my surprise. That's never happened to me before or since. You should usually expect customs agents to ask you what you were doing in the place that you came from, what you do for a living, or even where you live. However, as I've made clear, you are not required to answer a single question once you demonstrate proof of citizenship (i.e. presenting a passport). Hope this helps.

Post: #8

This is good info HC!
Is it is the same for Canadians re-entering Canada? I've been at times, in my earlier trips to Brasil, asked questions and even had my whole bags searched and one time, they even went over all my pics and I was delayed an hour in Toronto upon returning from Fortaleza via Miami. However, in my last few times coming from Asia, I've been lucky as I wasn't asked any question other than just a couple of where were you and for how long. The first time, which ironically was the time I was worried the most as I was returning home from a few months in Asia and I had a couple of suitcase full of stuff I had brought and undeclared at customs. However, I did 2 things differently that time and I'm sure it had a lot to play into that and they were:

- be fully suited returning from BKK via Abu Dhabi. I was probably the only guy in the entire plane fully suited and that had some role to play IMO.
- Canada being a bilingual country, I went straight to a French speaking immigration officer at Pearson in Toronto and greeted him in French and he just took my passport, scanned it and didn't even ask me one question other than "Bienvenu" (welcome back.

Since then, returning from overseas, I always adopt these 2 tactics: be suited up or at least nicely dressed and go straight for the French speaking agents and I usually get a much smoother entry into Canada. Anyone tried those tactics and has it work for you guys? Can we, as Canadians, also tell an immigration officer who's too curious, to mind his own business?

Post: #9

Ok guys, I am going to give you another point of view, just so you can truly know what MAY happen if you decide to answer with an arrogant tone "None of your business, beezwax, up yours, fuck you", and so forth to a US customs officer as a US citizen with a US passport in hand crossing the border.

You have a right to re-enter, but he has a right to detain you for however long he feels like it or take his sweet ass time searching your bags! I'm trying to go the fuck home, not spend 3hrs clearing customs because I decided to exercise my red, white and blue right to be a dick!

How about this one on for size instead:

Customs Officer: "Mixx, Why were you in Colombia?"
Mixx:"I was having fun chasing women" or "I was at a a trade show"
Custom Officer: "Ha! Welcome home..."

Off you go...(I have tried both above, and have never been questioned anymore than that!)

However, If you really want a 100% hassle-free entry back to North America, join both the Global Entry and Nexus program!! No questions asked, no lines, no bullshit when re-entering the US and Canada. The Nexus program compliments the Global Entry program nicely! Once you are a member of both programs, You are now free to fuck around the continent.


Mixx

Post: #10

Good point Mixx on being nice and getting the hell out of there asap.
This Global Entry and Nexus programme, are they only for US citizens or for Canadians as well? I'm going to research it more as it's intriguing me to say the least....thanks for the share compadre!

Post: #11

(12-12-2011 11:25 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Good point Mixx on being nice and getting the hell out of there asap.
This Global Entry and Nexus programme, are they only for US citizens or for Canadians as well? I'm going to research it more as it's intriguing me to say the least....thanks for the share compadre!

The programs are open to both Canadian Citizens, US Citizens and legal Residents (foreign alien) of US and Canada..

More info here:

https://goes-app.cbp.dhs.gov/main/goes/H...eAction.do

I am a member of both Nexus and Global Entry, I never worry about US or Canadian customs any longer!

Mixx

Post: #12

(12-12-2011 11:25 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Good point Mixx on being nice and getting the hell out of there asap.
This Global Entry and Nexus programme, are they only for US citizens or for Canadians as well? I'm going to research it more as it's intriguing me to say the least....thanks for the share compadre!

According to the website:

Quote:Global Entry is open to U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents, Dutch citizens, and Mexican nationals. Canadian citizens and residents may enjoy Global Entry benefits through membership in the NEXUS program.

Post: #13

(12-12-2011 11:00 PM)MiXX Wrote:  Ok guys, I am going to give you another point of view, just so you can truly know what MAY happen if you decide to answer with an arrogant tone "None of your business, beezwax, up yours, fuck you", and so forth to a US customs officer as a US citizen with a US passport in hand crossing the border.

You have a right to re-enter, but he has a right to detain you for however long he feels like it or take his sweet ass time searching your bags! I'm trying to go the fuck home, not spend 3hrs clearing customs because I decided to exercise my red, white and blue right to be a dick!

How about this one on for size instead:

Customs Officer: "Mixx, Why were you in Colombia?"
Mixx:"I was having fun chasing women" or "I was at a a trade show"
Custom Officer: "Ha! Welcome home..."

Off you go...(I have tried both above, and have never been questioned anymore than that!)

However, If you really want a 100% hassle-free entry back to North America, join both the Global Entry and Nexus program!! No questions asked, no lines, no bullshit when re-entering the US and Canada. The Nexus program compliments the Global Entry program nicely! Once you are a member of both programs, You are now free to fuck around the continent.


Mixx

totally agree. we'd all like to believe that the law means something but not really. america is built on lies and hypocrisy. I love America, but I also know that it's corrupt as fuck and the law has nothing to do with what cops and the government actually do. you're always in the jungle to some degree. cops are chimps just like you.

the nomadlaw story proves the point - those cops were willing to break the law, just to be tough. chimps. what'd the guy prove? what'd he win? the cops won. they got to fuck with him, and then let him go at their discretion, and keep their jobs. he lost - 30 min out of his life. I respect what he did and I've done similar shit, but don't fool yourself.

and this nexus/global entry thing - probably a good idea but what's really going on there?

money.

let's make up some bullshit laws and then charge money to skip those laws.

Post: #14

(12-12-2011 11:00 PM)MiXX Wrote:  Ok guys, I am going to give you another point of view, just so you can truly know what MAY happen if you decide to answer with an arrogant tone "None of your business, beezwax, up yours, fuck you", and so forth to a US customs officer as a US citizen with a US passport in hand crossing the border.

You have a right to re-enter, but he has a right to detain you for however long he feels like it or take his sweet ass time searching your bags! I'm trying to go the fuck home, not spend 3hrs clearing customs because I decided to exercise my red, white and blue right to be a dick!

How about this one on for size instead:

Customs Officer: "Mixx, Why were you in Colombia?"
Mixx:"I was having fun chasing women" or "I was at a a trade show"
Custom Officer: "Ha! Welcome home..."

Off you go...(I have tried both above, and have never been questioned anymore than that!)

However, If you really want a 100% hassle-free entry back to North America, join both the Global Entry and Nexus program!! No questions asked, no lines, no bullshit when re-entering the US and Canada. The Nexus program compliments the Global Entry program nicely! Once you are a member of both programs, You are now free to fuck around the continent.


Mixx

That's also true--they have a right to delay your re-entry, though it won't be 3 hours (probably one at the most). However, I've been cool and compliant before only to get asked seriously invasive, even offensive, questions about my background even more. You never know what the customs agent that day will be like. Some of them seriously get a power trip and dig deep into your personal business. I once saw a young white American woman divulge deeply personal information about her finances and family situation only because she believed she had to answer any question that was asked. I once answered questions to a woman who was a total bitch. As Paul says in the article, it's often about power and nothing else. There's no need to subject yourself to that kind of harassment. I think some people, especially certain minorities, might be sensitive to that type of interrogating. I've heard some truly wild anecdotes from friends of mine who are of Middle Eastern origin.

If you're in a rush to get home, do what suits you. I wouldn't necessarily recommend being arrogant right at the first question, but I can't knock you if you feel like being that way. Just be careful if you decide to stop answering questions after you've answered some. They do record your answers and can use anything you say against you if it comes down to it.

As for Canadian policies regarding Canadian citizens, I have no idea.

Post: #15

I honestly do not agree with the OP on thsi one. You can sit there and argue what your rights are all day/night, but remember, when it comes to going toe-to-toe with law enforcement officer of ANY branch, it is always best to play it cool. So long as you are not being disrespected, or illegally searched...play it cool man.

This also helps you learn how to keep your cool in stressful/demanding situations, like gaming women. Women will always test your patience, and if you lose your cool, you lose tasting her sweet, juicy, rosy pink pussy.

I'm not saying to be a push-over or a punk, you mofos know what exactly what I mean, if you don't..head on over to the newbie forum, and open a thread on "inner game".


Mixx

Post: #16

airports are a pain in the ass as it is.

fuck risking any more time and hassle.

i like the chasing women line! that will be my new answer from now on!

Post: #17

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  However, I've been cool and compliant before only to get asked seriously invasive, even offensive, questions about my background even more.

And you honestly think you are alone on this one? Me too!

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You never know what the customs agent that day will be like. Some of them seriously get a power trip and dig deep into your personal business.

Agreed, but if you feel you are being treated unfairly, in a cool, calm, but firm tone of voice request to speak to a supervisor! I have done this before, a US customs officer was fucking with me hard, and trying to push me to the edge...I requested to speak to a shift supervisor, and he was one of the coolest officers I have ever met, he was so cool, that after I explained the situation (in a calm, respectful and articulate manner), he gave me his personal business card, and told me that if I ever have any issues, to ask the officer to personally call him up on the spot. He then had his assistant booked me on another flight 1ST CLASS for my troubles and the way I handled things!!


THAT IS A VERY TRUE STORY!!!

Lesson: play it cool..you always win if you do, even in a fist fight.


Mixx

Post: #18

(12-12-2011 11:43 PM)MiXX Wrote:  I honestly do not agree with the OP on thsi one. You can sit there and argue what your rights are all day/night, but remember, when it comes to going toe-to-toe with law enforcement officer of ANY branch, it is always best to play it cool. So long as you are not being disrespected, or illegally searched...play it cool man.

This also helps you learn how to keep your cool in stressful/demanding situations, like gaming women. Women will always test your patience, and if you lose your cool, you lose tasting her sweet, juicy, rosy pink pussy.

I'm not saying to be a push-over or a punk, you mofos know what exactly what I mean, if you don't..head on over to the newbie forum, and open a thread on "inner game".


Mixx

We can agree to disagree. Remaining silent is playing it cool and, more importantly, it's your right. I'm not sure if you read the article I dropped, but that guy was cool as a cucumber. He never raised his voice and he obeyed the physical commands that were directed at him. It's better, in my view, to adopt the mindset that law enforcement officials are your public servants (our taxes pay their salary), not the other way around. I also happened to attend law school so I'm well aware of the many examples in history where law enforcement officials have abused the rights of unsuspecting, law-abiding Americans. I can tell you very honestly that US Customs have treated me worse, when I was compliant, than any other customs agency in the world. I was treated far better in supposedly hostile countries like Syria; and in security-minded, paranoid countries like Israel when they clearly saw my visa stamps from many of its enemy countries.

This is unacceptable and it's precisely why I exercise my right whenever I'm in a position to. I don't even see it as being a dick--I consider them dicks, if not worse, for not informing American citizens of their right not to answer interrogative, inconsequential questions. In fact, I see it more as a failure of our justice system. Americans should be informed upon arrival back to the US of their right not to answer CBP questions. The impact on many American travelers of a questioning law enforcement official carrying a deadly weapon in plain sight is far too great not to.

Post: #19

(12-12-2011 11:50 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  However, I've been cool and compliant before only to get asked seriously invasive, even offensive, questions about my background even more.

And you honestly think you are alone on this one? Me too!

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You never know what the customs agent that day will be like. Some of them seriously get a power trip and dig deep into your personal business.

Agreed, but if you feel you are being treated unfairly, in a cool, calm, but firm tone of voice request to speak to a supervisor! I have done this before, a US customs officer was fucking with me hard, and trying to push me to the edge...I requested to speak to a shift supervisor, and he was one of the coolest officers I have ever met, he was so cool, that after I explained the situation (in a calm, respectful and articulate manner), he gave me his personal business card, and told me that if I ever have any issues, to ask the officer to personally call him up on the spot. He then had his assistant booked me on another flight 1ST CLASS for my troubles and the way I handled things!!


THAT IS A VERY TRUE STORY!!!

Lesson: play it cool..you always win if you do, even in a fist fight.


Mixx

Great example and I get your point. But I'm glad this thread came up because it's good to know what your rights are when they do get tread on. Too many people don't, including me in this case.

Whenever I had to assert my rights with U.S. police as mentioned above, I definitely did it as polite as possible. Some of them get super steamed, which can be a bit frightening when you're the vulnerable one (even if it's funny to think back on later), but being cool, collected, and polite is definitely key in any situation like this.

Knowing your rights gives you power that most citizens don't have. But it's true you have to use that power with gentle hands.

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #20

(12-12-2011 11:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Americans should be informed upon arrival back to the US of their right not to answer CBP questions. The impact on many American travelers of a questioning law enforcement official carrying a deadly weapon in plain sight is far too great not to.

American authorities will do anything to keep that from happening. The fact that most people don't know their rights is huge leverage for them that they base entire policies around. Ridiculous.

I'm Here.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

(12-12-2011 11:50 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  However, I've been cool and compliant before only to get asked seriously invasive, even offensive, questions about my background even more.

And you honestly think you are alone on this one? Me too!

(12-12-2011 11:40 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You never know what the customs agent that day will be like. Some of them seriously get a power trip and dig deep into your personal business.

Agreed, but if you feel you are being treated unfairly, in a cool, calm, but firm tone of voice request to speak to a supervisor! I have done this before, a US customs officer was fucking with me hard, and trying to push me to the edge...I requested to speak to a shift supervisor, and he was one of the coolest officers I have ever met, he was so cool, that after I explained the situation (in a calm, respectful and articulate manner), he gave me his personal business card, and told me that if I ever have any issues, to ask the officer to personally call him up on the spot. He then had his assistant booked me on another flight 1ST CLASS for my troubles and the way I handled things!!


THAT IS A VERY TRUE STORY!!!

Lesson: play it cool..you always win if you do, even in a fist fight.


Mixx

Lol. That's cool, bro. It seems that your experiences support your point of view, while my experiences do the same for me. I think most of the guys reading this thread agree with your view more, so thanks for dropping your opinion. This was definitely an important topic to bring up. I find that the process of actually getting back into the country is usually the worst part of an overseas trip for me.

Post: #22

(12-12-2011 11:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  This is unacceptable and it's precisely why I exercise my right whenever I'm in a position to. I don't even see it as being a dick--I consider them dicks, if not worse, for not informing American citizens of their right not to answer interrogative, inconsequential questions.

Casanova, seriously man...I strongly recommend you join the global entry and nexus program.

It's the best thing I ever did for Int'l travel. Soon, you'll be able to breeze through TSA security too!

You do not even need to fill out that paper customs declaration forms anymore on the plane they make you sign, that's how much of a hassle free expereince Global entry members enjoy!


Mixx

Post: #23

(12-13-2011 12:10 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

(12-12-2011 11:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  This is unacceptable and it's precisely why I exercise my right whenever I'm in a position to. I don't even see it as being a dick--I consider them dicks, if not worse, for not informing American citizens of their right not to answer interrogative, inconsequential questions.

Casanova, seriously man...I strongly recommend you join the global entry and nexus program.

It's the best thing I ever did for Int'l travel. Soon, you'll be able to breeze through TSA security too!

You do not even need to fill out that paper customs declaration forms anymore on the plane they make you sign, that's how much of a hassle free expereince Global entry members enjoy!


Mixx

Thanks for the tip, Mixx. I actually never heard of that program until you brought it up, surprisingly. Sounds like a great look. I'll definitely research it. Does it only apply to travel within North America?

Post: #24

(12-13-2011 12:13 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Does it only apply to travel within North America?

Nope. You can travel to "carajo land" as we say in Spanish, it does not matter. I guarantee you'll love coming back home to USA/Canada after fucking your brains out in <insert exotic land of pussy paradise here>.


Mixx

Post: #25

(12-13-2011 12:15 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 12:13 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Does it only apply to travel within North America?

Nope. You can travel to "carajo land" as we say in Spanish, it does not matter. I guarantee you'll love coming back home to USA/Canada after fucking your brains out in <insert exotic land of pussy paradise here>.


Mixx

Sweet. Just found the link for it. Here it is for anyone else who may be interested: https://goes-app.cbp.dhs.gov/main/goes