Are you open to joining the military as a commissioned officer?

If it's something you're interested in, i can post a mini-data sheet.

(07-09-2015 07:10 PM)Travesty Wrote:  Your stories sound fun for a guy in his early 20s.

Without building up some personal wealth I don't think they will sound as fun in your early 30s. And much less in your early 40s.

Just food for thought.

There was an expression I have heard which made sense to me.

Work first, play later
Play first, work later

Whatever you do last, you do longest.

Not saying you shouldn't enjoy yourself when young but unless anyone is expecting to die young, it is a long time that you will be alive.

Hey man,

Awesome post. I myself am teaching English at 25 in a Central Euro country. I chase women (when i'm not too much of a pussy) , and I can relae with you. I've got basically complete freedom with everything I do. Flexible schedule, gym, teach whatever I want but it comes with its downfalls for sure. Shit money, loneliness, etc. I don't know what you're after and I don't know what I'm after but hey, we're alive aren't we?

I'd appreciate a data sheet on that, seems like an interesting option that I don't know too much about.

(05-13-2016 11:55 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Are you open to joining the military as a commissioned officer?

If it's something you're interested in, i can post a mini-data sheet.

I have been thinking about joining the military.

So yeah, that would be cool.

(05-13-2016 04:30 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  There was an expression I have heard which made sense to me.

Work first, play later
Play first, work later

Whatever you do last, you do longest.

Not saying you shouldn't enjoy yourself when young but unless anyone is expecting to die young, it is a long time that you will be alive.

I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

I've had this discussion with a lot of my peers. All the grades, accolades, and degrees. Worked the big jobs, did what we set out to do leaving college. I'm usually one of the smartest and most educated persons in a room, but all them Science Fair Medals and Fortune 500 internships didn't set me up for life.

The "pay off" never came.

The pay off never came for millions. Though millions still believe that it will, if they just keep working at it.

Instead of all of those hours of test taking and fretting, early morning hours punching out TPS reports, I could have been traveling the world, following my dreams.

In all likelihood, I'd be in the same place economically more or less.

I think OP is right to consider adventure, more so than trying to join the straight life and fail at it like millions of others.

In all likelihood, he'll parlay an education that means nothing into a field that doesn't appreciate his education, a field where he could apply his skills to do an out-of-the box solutions - but can't because management won't let him.

He'll make his rent and car note until he meets a girl, knocks her up, and hopes they can put together enough pennies to buy a house. And then it's really over.

I no longer see a point in joining the rat race. You're surrounded by other rats, and there's no cheese at the end.

There are ways to pursue his adventure and build a solid skill set. We should be helping him to figure that out, rather than send him to the salt mines.

WIA

I'm also in a similar position to OP.

25 working in China, able to save perhaps 1k USD per month in a sales position.

I'm curious about coding, how skilled do you need to be in order to potentially make online monthly income? Could someone here breakdown examples of skill levels & capability, a long with what specific earnings they could make?

I know it depends on the person in terms of how quick they are able to learn & how much time/effort they put into it. But some rough guidance would be great to understand.

Build ASSETS when you are young.

To build things you need to have an abundance of energy. The younger you are the more energy you have.

No one takes you serious when you are in your 20s anyway so this is the best time to be grinding it out.

...you only need 5-10 years to set yourself up for life.

OP, do what your gut tells you. Just be ok with the choice 20 years down the line.

Don't ever say, "I wish XYZ happened, or I did something different."

Be able to say, "I lived life on my terms, it wasn't always perfect but I made choices for myself."

No matter which way you go, there will be no perfect.

Another way to ask this is, what will you regret more (you think), not working more or not having fun more?

Nothing says you can't make money while on an adventure - just need to think of a way that works with that lifestyle.

Very interesting thead and responses too. I'm currently 20 years old and fear still living with my parents and having little direction in 5 years time.

The most frustrating thing is looking back 3/4 years, and I was still questioning my future back then, asking myself whether i should go to college, whether i should learn a trade, what path to take...
Ultimately my motivation to take action never came and realistically I've spent those last few years procrastinating and as a result, still living with my parents.
Experienced a little travel and had an amazing time in meeting girls, enjoying different cultures and lifestyles. as I've used this past year to retake my high school exams (learning from home, submitting papers to an online tutor) to get better grades and to now apply for college.

To see how fast the last 4 years have gone by with me taking no action, it scares me for the next 4 years. Especially going to college and coming out with the paper to see i graduated but little to no bank and probably just as little direction.

(06-01-2016 06:30 AM)Ruivinho Wrote:  Very interesting thead and responses too. I'm currently 20 years old and fear still living with my parents and having little direction in 5 years time.

The most frustrating thing is looking back 3/4 years, and I was still questioning my future back then, asking myself whether i should go to college, whether i should learn a trade, what path to take...
Ultimately my motivation to take action never came and realistically I've spent those last few years procrastinating and as a result, still living with my parents.
Experienced a little travel and had an amazing time in meeting girls, enjoying different cultures and lifestyles. as I've used this past year to retake my high school exams (learning from home, submitting papers to an online tutor) to get better grades and to now apply for college.

To see how fast the last 4 years have gone by with me taking no action, it scares me for the next 4 years. Especially going to college and coming out with the paper to see i graduated but little to no bank and probably just as little direction.

To quote T. Roosevelt:

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing."

Hi guys, very interesting thread and just wanted to chip in with my situation.

I'm 27 now, and do have some savings although this is for payment on a property. Still living at home right now.

I'm jobless right now, have been working in recruitment for last 5 years and lost my job in spring. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do as Ive been miserable in recruitment but same time, its not been easy. The time does go by quickly, 1 month becomes 2, 2 months become 3. And although I have savings, I don't want to touch them yet. I fucked up as I didn't save money to keep me going for a few more months, and now I am running out of money to get by on, I am a bit trapped and going to probably go back into recruitment as I've got the experience there.

What I've learnt:

- Saving is almost everything. Save as much as you can realistically and keep it going. Save 1000 a month if you can (in my case in Stirling not Dollars) and build 10-20-30k in savings. You are saving if you lose your job, you are saving for peace of mind. You are saving to open your own business, you are saving to travel the world. You are saving for your long term future and retirement and any unexpected problem that arises.

- It sounds lame, but pension? Long term investments? These are things worth thinking about too.

- It should be relatively easy to have a good saving plan. Read Ramit Sethi's book on finance as it gives a good step by step guide on how to siphon of funds for saving, and have a plan.

- If you are careful with your money, you can still manage to go out and have some luxury whilst saving. Go for drinks once or twice a week. Take cash with you and leave your card at home so you are forced to only spend the money you want to spend.

- make sure you are always investing in yourself. When you are earning full time, make sure alongside saving that you learn other skills. That could be to learn code, that could be to write a book. Hell, it could be to act or to sing. It could be a number of things. but all those extra skills you learn whilst working your main job are going to really help develop you. Don't sit on your ass like me and just work your main job, and live for the weekend, as it means fast forward to when you aren't enjoying your job or your lose your job that you haven't developed any skills outside of your main job that could help you.

I am not on top of my shit yet, but the last few months have taught me a lot about the last few years and the importance of having money at your disposal. Your situation can change dramatically and we get comfortable too easily. Make sure you plan for losing your job, and whilst your job is going well, learn things on the side and don't ever get too comfortable because you never know when your boss could fire you, it could be due to planned redundancies, a bankrupt company or anything.

Make sure you are learning new skills, investing in yourself and saving, so you are always growing. I made the mistake of just waiting for monthly salary, spending the bulk of it on crap - expensive lunches, alcohol and drugs on the weekend, too much takeaway, clothes I didn't need.

I hope you can learn from my mistakes.

I'm 27 and I know I fucked up but I'm not going to cry about it. Time to rebuild and set myself over then next 2-3 years. We grow out of bad situations and I think its taken me losing my job to wake up and smell the coffee.

(05-31-2016 04:58 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

I think thats the core of it. Working your ass off in your 20s expecting to party later is not a sure bet. Your career mightn't advance as expected, you might knock up some girl, you might get hit by a bus, you might age horribly due to stress, whatever. Life happens and things rarely turn out exactly as you plan.

Even if everything works out perfectly, and you're one of a very, very small minority that has all that work pay off and you retire at 40. Now what? I'd far rather party in my 20s than in my 40s. Far easier to socialise with other travelers, to hit on the widest age spectrum of girls etc. A 25 year old just has so many more social/romantic doors open to them than a 45 year old. And will find it physically much easier to stay in shape, and to handle the traveling/partying itself.

I think the best approach for most people is to maximise partying in your 20s while not totally fucking your career over. Go to college, go to grad school, then work as little as possible for 5ish years. Work a year then travel a year, or work 'fun' jobs as a barman, or teach English etc. Start your own business, try out location independence. Whatever makes you happy. Once you've got a good degree or two in the bank you'll always have that to fall back on once you start approaching 30.

The difference between hitting the 9-5 rat race at 29 years old vs 24 years old on your career will likely be minimal - you'll just be a few years behind your peers. This gap will seem large when you have 1 year of experience and they have 6, but it will narrow massively once everyone has 10+ years of experience. They may retire at 65 instead of at 70 for you, but are your late 60s likely to matter that much? Those 5 years you spent traveling the world, fucking foreign girls, partying your ass off etc in your 20s are far more unique. And that window of opportunity closes so damn fast on your life.

(05-31-2016 04:58 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  The pay off never came for millions. Though millions still believe that it will, if they just keep working at it.

Most people don't have skills that translate to millions. From recollection, you're in the same line of work as user Hank Moody.

According to Hank, he is rich. What is he doing that you are not?

Skills such as lawyering are not what make you rich. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that and get bitter when the riches don't fall from the sky once they get their law degree.

As for fucking around in your twenties, this has been debated so much on here that people who feel cheated will say do it.

I say don't fuck around but have fun while getting the necessary skills that will translate to the life you want. Starting early is always the best and will give you the best chances of success.

It takes a long time to get good at something unless you are gifted in that subject matter. The problem is there are many more things to learn in order to be successful.

Being great at programming will only make you a programmer. Start adding in marketing, salesmanship, business acumen and now you are looking more like a business owner.

Good luck trying to get there when you're in your 30's to 40's. You will be passed on by jobs that would have been a starting point to gaining experience that can be used later in life. It's unfortunate that people will tell young guys to fuck around. They won't realize until it's too late whether it was a smart choice or not. I remember one guy here talking about moving to Thailand at 19 and was basically broke now with a family and no options.

Some thoughts from my POV:

I would definitely forget about things like working on a cruise ship and being a flight attendant. Those things won't get you anywhere. You can work these jobs for a couple of years, but these are not long term careers. You need develop skills / a career that has a longer term future.

Also, I would not recommend going the "digital nomad" route - if that includes doing small gigs on "sharing economy" platforms like upward etc. You can do that for 6 months when you are starting out to gain some experience, but you need to leave these platforms behind asap. The pay is way too low, and you want to build a brand/ reputation for yourself outside of these platforms.

(05-31-2016 04:58 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

The idea that you can bust your ass for 10 years as an employee and then be set for live is not very realistic. There are some people for whom it works - mainly people in the banking / finance industry. You need to get into a very high-level, well-paying field for that plan to work out. From the way you sound in your posts, though, you are probably not a person who will make it into these spheres.

Ok so what do I suggest?

You said that you started learning fron-end coding and Javascript. Thats is very good basis. ESPECIALLY in CONJUNCTION with your anthropology degree. If I was in your situation, I would definitely leverage this. There is an emerging field of digital anthropology - see for example this article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/techno....html?_r=0

There will be an increasing demand for the position in the future, together with UX Design and Consumer Ethnography - these fields are all interconnected. Anthropology is a very good foundation for that.

So instead of becoming a code monkey who works for pennies on some "sharing economy" website, rather become an "Interaction Expert" based on your knowledge of screen design and anthropology. Just get some more experience in that field, make a portfolio, and brand yourself that way. Another advantage is that you're young-ish, so you can become a "Gen-Y Digital Guru" or something in that vein. I.e. you help corporations understand the UX needs of Gen Y - there's a lot of money in that.

You can then still build your own digital service on the side, maybe with a focus on China, as YMG suggested - I think that's a good idea.

The main thing though is to develop a skill set that you can build upon and that is in demand. I wouldn't only think about "how can I make money" but what will be the best path longer term. I think you can't go wrong with going into the digital field, but you need to make sure that you don't get stuck on the code monkey level and instead work in a more "strategic" position. Again, your background is very well suited for that.

(06-01-2016 12:42 PM)zatara Wrote:  I'd far rather party in my 20s than in my 40s. Far easier to socialise with other travelers, to hit on the widest age spectrum of girls etc. A 25 year old just has so many more social/romantic doors open to them than a 45 year old.

(06-01-2016 12:42 PM)zatara Wrote:  Those 5 years you spent traveling the world, fucking foreign girls, partying your ass off etc in your 20s are far more unique. And that window of opportunity closes so damn fast on your life.

That's quite a lot of bullshit. You cannot weigh your 20ies against your 40ies - each age is what you make of it. It's all about building a long-term life that you enjoy and that gives you freedom. Do you think you won't want to socialise and fuck foreign girls when you're in your 40ies? Of course you will. Many people simply can't, though, because they're in a 9-5 grind and don't know how to get out of it.

That's why my advice is to build expertise in a field and always keep adding new skills and knowledge to it. This will make it easier to go independent over time and build high-level clients. Then the next step is to start a company and/or develop a product. But that comes later, after you have built a good foundation in a field and gained some good experience.

Shit the Navy has been paying me to shoot guns, travel, and fuck foreign girls for a while now. My 20's were epic.

(06-01-2016 04:10 PM)Ice Wrote:  That's quite a lot of bullshit. You cannot weigh your 20ies against your 40ies - each age is what you make of it. It's all about building a long-term life that you enjoy and that gives you freedom. Do you think you won't want to socialise and fuck foreign girls when you're in your 40ies? Of course you will. Many people simply can't, though, because they're in a 9-5 grind and don't know how to get out of it.

You absolutely can weigh your 40s (or 50s, or 60s) against your 20s when talking about career priorities. Being realistic about things, for most men, whatever lifestyle choices they make involve making sacrifices. If you fuck around in your 20s partying/traveling you'll be unlikely to be retiring at 40. And vice versa, if you're working your balls off to retire at 40 its unlikely you'll be spending your 20s partying/traveling the world. The dream is of course finding something in the middle. A job thats fun, gives you enough time off to travel extensively, pays well, and develops your career. But that's a rare beast.

Most men absolutely will want to "socialise and fuck foreign girls when you're in your 40ies". But its a hell of a lot harder to do that in your 40s than in your 20s, regardless of financial success. Ignoring the possibilities of life getting in the way as mentioned above; socially, all of your friends will likely be married with kids by this stage, so off the scene. Girl-wise, is it possible to game 21 year old girls as a successful 45 year old? Absolutely. But its orders of magnitudes harder than doing so as a fit 25 year old. In the vast majority of party/travel environments I would not be betting on the older man in that 1v1.

Plus, 90% of people traveling the world/partying are aged 18-30. I just don't believe being surrounded by people 20 years younger than you would be half as much fun on any level, when compared to partying/traveling with your peer group. Aside from getting laid, its just much easier to make friends, have drunken conversations with randomers etc.

Interesting back and forth over the last few posts.

I suppose it comes down to knowing what you want out of life and how best to obtain it. Almost all life mistakes can be categorized as "didn't know what you truly wanted" or "didn't do the right things to get what you want". If your main goal in life is to party and fuck, then working your ass off to early retire at 40 is the wrong move. You'd be better off living a YOLO lifestyle as a bartender and hoping to OD by 40 so you can avoid the long term consequences.

That's why I don't think there's a universally right or wrong answer - only right or wrong answers for each individual. I tend to fall in wwt and Ice's camp, but I don't see anything wrong with zatara's perspective. All comes down to what you want out of life.

My goal is to fuck around while still putting a hundred grand or two in the bank by thirty. Hopin for the best on that one. Will report back in 40 or so years.

(06-01-2016 04:46 PM)zatara Wrote:  You absolutely can weigh your 40s (or 50s, or 60s) against your 20s when talking about career priorities. If you fuck around in your 20s partying/traveling you'll be unlikely to be retiring at 40. And vice versa, if you're working your balls off to retire at 40 its unlikely you'll be spending your 20s partying/traveling the world.

The problem is, this is very theoretical. Yeah you can work your balls off in your 20ies, but if you're gonna retire at 40 is far from certain. Many people work very hard in their 20ies and 30ies and don't necessarily get that far. As I mentioned above, you need very specific skills and talents for that.

Also, most people who really make a lot of $$$ by 40 never really considered to "just travel and fuck around" in the first place. They want to work and make $$$ and that's why they're successful at it.

If you're 25 and really want to travel, party, want a location-independent lifestyle, I really doubt that you will be able to make a top 1% career in wall street. Just from a personality perspective alone.

But of course there are exceptions.

I just think you need to follow the talents & interests that you have and build a long term career with that. You need to work with what you have. There are some people for whom that means a high-end job in finance and banking, and they will maybe retire at 40. But that is definitely a minority. But others can go down another career path, work hard, but also have fun in the process. You can easily party & travel in your 20ies & 30ies and at the same time build your skills and have a good career.

(06-01-2016 06:42 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  If your main goal in life is to party and fuck, then working your ass off to early retire at 40 is the wrong move. You'd be better off living a YOLO lifestyle as a bartender and hoping to OD by 40 so you can avoid the long term consequences.

Yeah but that is exactly not what you should be doing. If you want to party and fuck as a lifestyle no problem, but don't hope to OD by 40 lol. Build your life up in that direction. Example: Kirill Was Here. He made a career exactly out of that lifestyle. If your talent really lies in partying and fucking, then try to build something around that lifestyle. It's also not easy, of course, but as a person who really likes to party and fuck you have a better chance at succeeding at that than having a top 1% career in wall street.

@Peregrine I completely agree with that. I can respect someone who prioritizes partying in their 20s, and does it right. Or I can equally respect someone who prioritizes their career in their 20s. I think both won't have regrets later in life - both have a goal, and they decide to chase it. But its the people who fall into the vague middleground who are never really sure what they want that suffer. Not much point slaving away in a job youre only 'meh' about 50 weeks a year to live the party lifestyle 2 weeks a year...

@Ice I absolutely agree retiring at 40 is far from realistic. I just think thats the goal a lot of men in their 20s set themselves when trying to justify working their balls off in their 20s - I've seen it posted here a lot for instance. So I used that as my example. I agree with almost everything else in your last 2 posts too, re: doing what you're good at (and not OD'ing at 40!) etc.

I just think its hard for most men to "easily party & travel in your 20ies & 30ies and at the same time build your skills and have a good career." - especially in the US. Most well paying jobs in the US don't give you more than a couple weeks leave a year at best, which just isn't anywhere near enough to properly experience life. That's why I always recommend people spend a few years post-college working as a barman, traveling the world etc. Doing that you obtain a good chunk of life experience that you likely never would otherwise, then can settle into the working world in your late 20s.

Essentially, my tl;dr is probably the working world will wait a few years - partying/travel will not. Better to maximise each in turn, than half-arse at both.

(05-31-2016 04:58 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I think OP is right to consider adventure, more so than trying to join the straight life and fail at it like millions of others.

"My real life hasn't started yet..."

(06-01-2016 06:42 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  You'd be better off living a YOLO lifestyle as a bartender and hoping to OD by 40

No one should ever be hoping they OD by 40 for any reason. I would never wanna be that guy. You can be smart with your money while still being a bartender and making bartender money. Just like a pornstar can start his or her own adult video production studio and website.

Or they can waste their money on drugs and other frivolous things. It's up to them.

(06-01-2016 06:42 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  Almost all life mistakes can be categorized as "didn't know what you truly wanted" or "didn't do the right things to get what you want".

Or even worse: "Did what everyone else wanted and expected of him."

Unfortunately many men live under this category, especially in America. I have many old acquaintances just like this. Enslaved to their family, friends, spouse, girlfriend. A slave for those around him fighting against his own free will. These types are the perfect corporate paper pushers and are the co-workers you will have if you end up deciding to go the corporate slave route. Remember you are the sum of those you surround yourself with. I thought these losers would never effect me, but their grey, depressing masses inevitably do.

As for this debate.

If there is one piece of advice I always receive from all the older guys I meet (I'm in my 20s), is that I should cherish and not waste a moment of my youth. I took this as simple boilerplate life advice until recently when I experienced true freedom for the first time in my life.

I wasted a few years of my life in corporate management consulting slavery and I saw what happened to the guys that served longer sentences. They looked like shit and had horribly uninspiring and mediocre lives despite having a large number in a bank account under their name, a "title" and "job security" (whatever the fuck that actually means in 2016).

Long have I decided I would rather hustle to make $40k a year with basically unlimited freedom than make $80k trading in my time, freedom and sanity working back at my old corporate slave yard. Obviously I'm working to do way better than that money wise, but for now there is no realistic amount of money that makes the alternative life appealing to me.

There is no universally right answer, but for guys who are on this forum I think there probably is one and it's not the route of mediocrity.