Post: #1

I know this board is not much into running, but seems like many guys here competed in track during high school.

What should be my approach to having a decent time in a marathon?
I've done a few races a few years ago where i just wanted to "finish" but i'm over that now.

Other forums like letsrun say you should run a minimum of 50 mpw to complete a marathon. Do i have to break down the training into cycles, for example building a base mileage at slow pace and then doing tempo runs or something like that?

Post: #2

(06-11-2016 12:49 PM)dog24 Wrote:  I know this board is not much into running, but seems like many guys here competed in track during high school.

What should be my approach to having a decent time in a marathon?
I've done a few races a few years ago where i just wanted to "finish" but i'm over that now.

Other forums like letsrun say you should run a minimum of 50 mpw to complete a marathon. Do i have to break down the training into cycles, for example building a base mileage at slow pace and then doing tempo runs or something like that?

I'm sure you have come across Hal Higdon if you have googled marathon training. I have never used his program but know people who did and it worked well for them. It requires long term discipline.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51135/...ning-Guide

The only marathon I ran was spur of the moment with no training and it took around 6:30. I can't recommend this strategy.

If my goal was to run <4hr I would just concentrate on getting the miles in each week. Start however many months prior to the race so that you build up to 40 miles per week. One 20-mile long run 2-3 weeks prior to race day would be sufficient. The main goal for <4hr is just getting hundreds of miles under your legs, build your endurance.

If my goal was to run <3:30 then I would use an official training plan from someone like Higdon or elsewhere online. These are typically 4-5 month plans that involve long runs, tempo runs, intervals, hills. A plan like this will help build your speed.

Unless you ran in school, have been running for years, or are just naturally fast I would be shooting for closer to 4hr than 3:30 if this is your first marathon.

What do you consider a "decent" time?

What races did you run a few years ago? 26.2? 13.1? 10K? 5k?

Here are the Boston Qualifying times to give you an idea of what "fast" is for your age bracket:
http://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon...fying.aspx

Post: #3

(06-11-2016 02:14 PM)Chauncey Wrote:  I'm sure you have come across Hal Higdon if you have googled marathon training. I have never used his program but know people who did and it worked well for them. It requires long term discipline.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51135/...ning-Guide

The only marathon I ran was spur of the moment with no training and it took around 6:30. I can't recommend this strategy.

If my goal was to run <4hr I would just concentrate on getting the miles in each week. Start however many months prior to the race so that you build up to 40 miles per week. One 20-mile long run 2-3 weeks prior to race day would be sufficient. The main goal for <4hr is just getting hundreds of miles under your legs, build your endurance.

If my goal was to run <3:30 then I would use an official training plan from someone like Higdon or elsewhere online. These are typically 4-5 month plans that involve long runs, tempo runs, intervals, hills. A plan like this will help build your speed.

Unless you ran in school, have been running for years, or are just naturally fast I would be shooting for closer to 4hr than 3:30 if this is your first marathon.

What do you consider a "decent" time?

What races did you run a few years ago? 26.2? 13.1? 10K? 5k?

Here are the Boston Qualifying times to give you an idea of what "fast" is for your age bracket:
http://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon...fying.aspx

I've glanced at a few 17-18 weeks programs but i have 14 months to train.

I ran a 23' 5k a month ago with one month of training and a 54' 10k at slow pace in preparation for that race, im currently at 20 mpw not really worried about speed. I'm just trying to build a base without getting injured.

That said 7min/km feels too slow i have to purposely slow down to maintain it, my slow comfortable pace is around 6min/km.

The other races i've done a few years ago were 10k 52' in one and 54' in the second with two weeks of training, i must have not get injured only because i was young. Never again.

Once you have a set weekly mileage do you just maintain that or do you need to have peak weeks and recovery weeks? I would hate to have a stress fracture or any of that nature.

Those times are insane btw, looks like i won't be participating in any Boston Marathon in my lifetime.

Post: #4

Running Room (Canada - don't know if they've branched out elsewhere) have books or online guides you can buy with training programs for different distances. I believe the marathon program runs 16 weeks and works you up progressively to race day; you choose your goal time (e.g. 3'45") and follow the program.

https://www.events.runningroom.com//trai...22&id=5165

I haven't run a full, but plenty of half marathons; the thing about a 1/2 is that a half decent runner with no serious preparation can hack it for 2' and finish, not so much with a full.

For the halfs, I use a twelve-week program which is divided into thirds. First third works on getting you used to progressively longer distances, second focuses on hill work and the last on intervals and sprints, to get your speed up. Every Sunday is a long(er) run, peaking at 18km about 3 weeks before race day. Once I started the 12-week trainings, it did not improve my time by a lot (couple of minutes) however I was in much better shape when I crossed the line.

Friends who are training for full marathons get told that it is important (or at least helpful) to do a variety of distances, e.g. throw some 5k and 10k races into the mix while training.

Post: #5

Glad to see fellow distance runners coming out of the closet on the forum.

(06-11-2016 12:49 PM)dog24 Wrote:  I've done a few races a few years ago where i just wanted to "finish" but i'm over that now.

It's not clear from your comment whether you have completed other marathons (just to finish), or only shorter distance races. Two different situations, although as you say, time has passed, so you should probably treat this as a first marathon. A reasonable goal for a first marathon is to finish without walking. That should put your somewhere in the four-hour range, if you aren't an experienced distance runner.

Get some 10K and half marathon races under your belt this season if you haven't already done so. Even though a marathon is very different in nature than a half marathon, you will benefit from having experience at shorter distances. From your half marathon times, you will be able to predict your marathon finish time, assuming you are getting your long runs in.

As for the 50mpw (80 kilometers) guideline you saw on letsrun, first marathons have been run on far less, but unless you are talented and/or lucky, you risk crashing and burning and/or injury. Since training for a marathon involves a lot of preparation, you should be fairly sure you can complete it when you toe the start line. Standard advice is to get your long run up to 20 miles or so, every two or three weeks, mixing in easy-pace training runs and shorter/faster tempo runs during the week. All of this requires a substantial base in order to steer clear of injury, which is the main thing that keeps marathoners from reaching the start.

If you can train with a local group, better. That will keep your focus and motivation. At all costs, stay away from the Galloway program, Team In Training and similar.

Post: #6

I ran a 3:09 when I was 19 years old (Sugarloaf Marathon, 1985). My training was several months of approximately 40 miles per week, consisting of runs of various distances ranging from 5 to 12 miles, plus three 20 mile long/slow runs on the three Sundays immediately preceding the race.

I ran local 10K races for fun and for "speed work," but that's probably not necessary.

Other than those three 20-milers, the single best piece of advice I can give is to find a training partner. You'll drag his ass out for the run when he's tired, and he'll drag your ass out when you're thinking about skipping it.

Training for a marathon is a big time commitment -- there's no getting around logging those miles. But you will feel a great sense of accomplishment when you cross the line. Only 1% of people on earth have completed the distance!

Good luck.

Post: #7

Slight thread derail: never post exact race names and times. All race results are public record and easily searchable. Don't dox yourselves.

Post: #8

Extreme Cardio Tip:
3 to 10 grams Citrulline Malate, GW501516 (Cardarine) and THC (Cannabis) prior to session.
You will feel euphoric and never tire.
Cardio becomes blissful and easy.

Post: #9

(06-14-2016 11:36 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  Extreme Cardio Tip:
3 to 10 grams Citrulline Malate, GW501516 (Cardarine) and THC (Cannabis) prior to session.
You will feel euphoric and never tire.
Cardio becomes blissful and easy.

Interesting what does the citrulline malate do?

Post: #10

(06-14-2016 12:03 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(06-14-2016 11:36 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  Extreme Cardio Tip:
3 to 10 grams Citrulline Malate, GW501516 (Cardarine) and THC (Cannabis) prior to session.
You will feel euphoric and never tire.
Cardio becomes blissful and easy.

Interesting what does the citrulline malate do?

Check out this link for a basic overview of Citrulline Malate:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/citrulli...ghter.html

In a nutshell, if Creatine Monohydrate is for Weightlifters, Citrulline Malate is for Cardio Enthusiasts.

Helps fight fatique and soreness, while also aiding in recovery.

You can see how this very quickly becomes synergistic when combined with Cannabis and GW501516 (Cardarine).

Post: #11

(06-14-2016 11:36 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  Extreme Cardio Tip:
3 to 10 grams Citrulline Malate, GW501516 (Cardarine) and THC (Cannabis) prior to session.
You will feel euphoric and never tire.
Cardio becomes blissful and easy.

I would mention that Cardarine has been linked to cancer in rats and that the human effects haven't been well studied. I'd be very careful using this.

That said, I'd love to move to a high altitude place like Denver, install a HyperBaric Chamber, throw in a gram of pharma EQ, Cardarine, AICAR, Meldonium, Cialis, Metformin, some EPO and just see what the fuck happens.

Why do have THC in that stack?

Also, I have been following Hal Higdon's Intermediate 2 program with great success. My speed isn't quite where I want it but then again, thats not the purpose of the program. Speed can also be built much quicker than long distance endurance.

I second the recommendation of Hal Higdon. He has some great stuff.

Post: #12

(06-14-2016 12:37 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

(06-14-2016 11:36 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  Extreme Cardio Tip:
3 to 10 grams Citrulline Malate, GW501516 (Cardarine) and THC (Cannabis) prior to session.
You will feel euphoric and never tire.
Cardio becomes blissful and easy.

I would mention that Cardarine has been linked to cancer in rats and that the human effects haven't been well studied. I'd be very careful using this.

That said, I'd love to move to a high altitude place like Denver, install a HyperBaric Chamber, throw in a gram of pharma EQ, Cardarine, AICAR, Meldonium, Cialis, Metformin, some EPO and just see what the fuck happens.

Why do have THC in that stack?

Also, I have been following Hal Higdon's Intermediate 2 program with great success. My speed isn't quite where I want it but then again, thats not the purpose of the program. Speed can also be built much quicker than long distance endurance.

I second the recommendation of Hal Higdon. He has some great stuff.

Cannabis makes cardio more enjoyable and effortless for me.
This is magnified even more when doing cardio outdoors.
Anecdotally it prevent fatigue and that creeping feeling of "I want to stop now"
The opposite happens, seems to increase the hearts ability to pump oxygen, the bodies ability to buffer lactic acid and the minds ability to enjoy the repetitious work.

YMMV!

Post: #13

Haha thats one way to do it. I put a treadmill in front of my TV and watch MMA fights when I run. Much more enjoyable to me than the beautiful smell of exhaust as cars speed by. I definitely like doing trail runs though.

Post: #14

I've run 4.09 1500m, 34.10 10km, 52.10 15km

Post: #15

(06-14-2016 06:01 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  I've run 4.09 1500m, 34.10 10km, 52.10 15km

Cool

Post: #16

(06-14-2016 06:01 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  I've run 4.09 1500m, 34.10 10km, 52.10 15km

I've put those results on google and this is the guy that showed up, don't dox yourself...
   

(06-14-2016 12:49 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  Haha thats one way to do it. I put a treadmill in front of my TV and watch MMA fights when I run. Much more enjoyable to me than the beautiful smell of exhaust as cars speed by. I definitely like doing trail runs though.

How accurate are treadmills? When i run a slow pace (what feels like a 6-7 min/km on the road) it says i'm at 10min/km on the treadmill. Do you think it's less of an impact on the feet than concret roads?

Post: #17

(06-13-2016 07:35 PM)JayR Wrote:  I ran a 3:09 when I was 19 years old (Sugarloaf Marathon, 1985). My training was several months of approximately 40 miles per week, consisting of runs of various distances ranging from 5 to 12 miles, plus three 20 mile long/slow runs on the three Sundays immediately preceding the race.

I ran local 10K races for fun and for "speed work," but that's probably not necessary.

Other than those three 20-milers, the single best piece of advice I can give is to find a training partner. You'll drag his ass out for the run when he's tired, and he'll drag your ass out when you're thinking about skipping it.

Training for a marathon is a big time commitment -- there's no getting around logging those miles. But you will feel a great sense of accomplishment when you cross the line. Only 1% of people on earth have completed the distance!

Good luck.

Congrats.

Post: #18

Quote:

Congrats.

Ha, thanks. That was a l o n g time ago. These days I'm happy if I manage 10 minute miles for a few miles a few times a week.

Running is a natural movement, and the human body adapts readily to distance training. Just about any healthy person is physically capable of running a marathon, but not everybody has discipline to train for it.

I didn't run for two days before my marathon to make sure I was fully rested. When the gun went off, I felt like I was floating on air. My mile 1 split was 7:13 (couldn't do a single mile that fast today if my life depended on it), and it felt effortless. I remember thinking to myself "I'm in the best shape of my life right now..."

Such a great feeling. I'll never forget it.

Post: #19

(06-14-2016 07:18 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(06-14-2016 12:49 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  Haha thats one way to do it. I put a treadmill in front of my TV and watch MMA fights when I run. Much more enjoyable to me than the beautiful smell of exhaust as cars speed by. I definitely like doing trail runs though.

How accurate are treadmills? When i run a slow pace (what feels like a 6-7 min/km on the road) it says i'm at 10min/km on the treadmill. Do you think it's less of an impact on the feet than concret roads?

As far as I know man, treadmills are the most accurate way to track distance/speed. I've never had any issues.

Post: #20

Glad I saw this. A couple weeks ago some friends asked me to join a triathlon sprint. i was reluctant, but agreed to do it. The race is this weekend and consists of .25 mile swim, 22 mile bike, and 5k run.

I've only had 20 days notice and honestly, I'm kind of concerned. I'm a horrendous swimmer. I never got comfortable with the breathing techniques and failed high school swimming. The biking should be easy and the run at the end is really going to suck. I haven't trained like i should've because i didnt want to totally abandon my weight training.

The time for training advice has past, but do any of you guys have any race day tips? I plan on getting some ephedrine to take prior to the race to open my lungs up. I also might smuggle in some floaties so I don't drown. Any other tips besides the citruline and weed? I just want to finish and not die.

Post: #21

I would advice you not to do it, you have a high chance of injuring yourself.

I doubt you could finish even at the slowest pace possible, but let's say you do what do you get out of it? You're taking the spotlight out of people who were probably busting their asses training for just that one race. We complain about women's entitlement and such in here, are we really better than those fatties taking selfies after a 5k run with a time of 35 min if we go unprepared to a competition?

Anyway if you do compete don't take ephedrine you could have a heart attack, it will not improve your aerobic capacity and will definitely not help once your legs give up, don't carb up like crazy before the race either.

Post: #22

(06-16-2016 01:33 AM)dog24 Wrote:  I would advice you not to do it, you have a high chance of injuring yourself.

I doubt you could finish even at the slowest pace possible, but let's say you do what do you get out of it? You're taking the spotlight out of people who were probably busting their asses training for just that one race. We complain about women's entitlement and such in here, are we really better than those fatties taking selfies after a 5k run with a time of 35 min if we go unprepared to a competition?

Anyway if you do compete don't take ephedrine you could have a heart attack, it will not improve your aerobic capacity and will definitely not help once your legs give up, don't carb up like crazy before the race either.

^Agreed. The golden rule of triathlons: Nothing new on race day. Unless you've been training consistently with ephedrine, weed or whatever, don't take any the morning of the race. Stay safe and you'll finish. The worst part will be the swim. Start out at less than half the pace that you think you can do. If you gas out in the water, you can be in serious trouble. Especially if it's an open water swim.

As far as fueling goes, have a decent meal the night before, but nothing too filling. I usually go with steak and potatoes or a big burger. On the morning of the race, have a light breakfast (<500 calories) and some juice or gatorade.

Post: #23

(06-16-2016 12:48 AM)Dickerstaff1 Wrote:  Glad I saw this. A couple weeks ago some friends asked me to join a triathlon sprint. i was reluctant, but agreed to do it. The race is this weekend and consists of .25 mile swim, 22 mile bike, and 5k run.

If this were a longer triathlon (Olympic distance or longer), I would agree with the other posters here that you should abandon ship. But this is a sprint triathlon you're doing for fun. You'll get through a 1/4 mile swim somehow. Just find a comfortable pace and stick with it. You can even flip over and swim on your back (backstroke) if that is more comfortable breathingwise. You'll get through the bike and the 5K run as well, just keep moving forward. Don't push yourself on the pace; go deliberately slower than you think you can, especially at the start of each leg. You'll have company, since lots of people jump into these races who are underprepared. You're doing this for fun, to be social with your friends. It won't kill you.

If you have time, practice your transitions or at least think through them carefully. Dry your feet after the swim. Start the run slowly. Since you've just been biking, your legs may feel like lead at first. That will pass.

Post: #24

If you wanna do long distance running, be sure to check out Mark Sissons last book: The Primal Endurance.
It´s about the latest science about how to train for events like Marathons, Iron man´s, Ultra maratons, Bike events and so on.

The book is highly recommended. http://www.primalblueprintpublishing.com...endurance/

About the book:
Primal Endurance shakes up the status quo and challenges the overly stressful, ineffective conventional approach to endurance training. While marathons and triathlons are wildly popular and bring much gratification and camaraderie to the participants, the majority of athletes are too slow, continually tired, and carry too much body fat respective to the time they devote to training. The prevailing “chronic cardio” approach promotes carbohydrate dependency, overly stressful lifestyle patterns, and ultimately burnout.

Primal Endurance applies an all-encompassing approach to endurance training that includes primal-aligned eating to escape carbohydrate dependency and enhance fat metabolism, building an aerobic base with comfortably paced workouts, strategically introducing high intensity strength and sprint workouts, emphasizing rest, recovery, and an annual periodization, and finally cultivating an intuitive approach to training instead of the usual robotic approach of fixed weekly workout schedules. When you “go Primal” as an endurance athlete, you can expect to enjoy these and other benefits in short order:

Easily reduce excess body fat and keep it off permanently, even during periods of reduced training
Perform better by reprogramming your genes to burn fat and spare glycogen during sustained endurance efforts
Avoid overtraining, burnout, illness, and injury by improving your balance of stress and rest, both in training and everyday life
Spend fewer total hours training and get more return on investment with periodic and purposeful workout patterns
Have more fun, be more spontaneous, and break free from the pull of the obsessive/compulsive mindset that is common among highly motivated, goal-oriented endurance athletes
Have more energy and better focus during daily life instead of suffering from the “active couch potato syndrome,” with cumulative fatigue from incessant heavy training, which makes you lazy and sluggish
Primal Endurance is about slowing down, balancing out, chilling out, and having more fun with your endurance pursuits. It’s about building your health through sensible training patterns, instead of destroying your health through chronic training patterns. While it might be hard to believe at first glance, you can actually get faster by backing off from the overly aggressive and overly regimented “Type-A” training approach that prevails in today’s endurance community. Primal Endurance will show you how, every step of the way.

Post: #25

Not sure I would compare attempting a triathalon sprint under-prepared to a self congratulatory fattie walking on a treadmill at Planet fitness while eating pizza and snapping selfies. Are you concerned I'm not respecting the sport? Well, I got the impression that it wasn't too serious. I could be wrong. Also, I told my friends I would do it and already paid.

And I'm certainly not unprepared just not as prepared as I would like to be. I plan on doing what Elflaco said and pacing myself. I know from races as a kid that I can get caught up in the excitement and start hauling ass when they start the race. Slow and steady for me.

Whats the best that can happen? Its gotten me to actually do cardio, something that I had been almost completely neglecting. Its also a social event that got me out and about training with my friends. And most importantly, I get to brag to fellow Rooshers that I finished the weakest type of triathalon in last place.

Whats the worst that'll happen? I'll die? No, having to be rescued would be worse. I'd have to live with the shame of that.

Thanks for the pre race meal tips. I'll report back how it goes this weekend.