Post: #76

I also have another reasoning. If you buy today a Carrera and it costs 70 000$. And if you sell it in two years for 60 000$. You´ve spent 10 000$ in the car. Each month costed you a minimum of 416$.

If you buy a Boxster which today costs 25000$. But can only resell it in two years for 12500. You´ve spent 12500. Each month costed you 520$.

So it will be more costly to drive an old car than a newer. I´m not saying this are the right figures. But the idea behind this it´s if it´s only temporary you should check which one depreciates faster. Taking also in account an older car doesn´t have warranty from the dealer.

The other day I saw a Ferrari California online for 100k. Normal it goes 120k. Unfortunately it was already reserved when I called. If not I would have bought it. Probably enjoy the car for 2 years. And after sell it for 100k.

If you make an effort on the search. You can be paid to ride a Ferrari. And don´t even spend money on maintenance because it´s still on warranty.

By making a lease it might be even better. You pay the depreciation + lease. And get all back when you sell. You would sign 3 papers (buy, lease and sell) and ride a Porsche for free. No sweat money involved. Unfortunately leases have high interest rates. So you would see if the figures made sense.

I always buy second hand. Directly from the brand. Approved. A car with 30k is as good as new. Normally they are used by employees.

Unless your value per hour is more expensive than the time your taking to search for the car. Look for it. When I´m taking a dump it´s the time I search for houses. Haven´t been looking for exotic cars for a while. Drive a 5 series. The most boring car on the world. But I rarely get stopped by the police. Waiting for something. Just google online cars.

Here the link of the dude who owned a Ferrari for 1 year. He did the math. The car costed him around 1 grand per month:

http://jalopnik.com/heres-what-it-cost-m...1669923931

Best time to buy, just like houses. Is holidays time. There are no buyers in town. You´re the only one.

It´s fundamentally an emotional decision. But I see no wrong in adding some rationality to it. If you don´t. You might end up hating the car.

911 are also more confortable than Boxsters. And I don´t touch the wheels with my knees. If I buy again an exotic car. It will be to resell it. For the same price. Or even with a profit. If a lease doesn´t add much to the numbers would even make one. But had to make some calculations.
Never made a lease buying a car. Always upfront.

Never drove a Cayman. But it´s also a good car. A middle between Boxster and 911.

Post: #77

(03-10-2017 06:03 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  < Sorry - you haven't researched it well enough.

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/here-are-f...1679935623

Why do you think wealthy folk buy a car upfront and don't lease?

Any justifications are mental gymnastics. The car depreciation alone justifies buying used. Drive off the car lot and take a 20% price fall even if you take a trip around the block.

There are other issues concerned with it. Big corporations offer it at 0% financing (excluding massive fees), because they get 0% financing by the central banks - you don't and most companies don't either.

The funny thing is that if you research long-term rental contracts vs leasing then you find out that some offers are almost identical except that you get a car that is 2 years old vs brand new.

Leasing of new cars, purchase of self-used real estate at the top of your credit ability, marriage with no pre-nup, life-insurance policies for investment - those are major reasons why the middle class stays middle class. Their only hope is that the house rises in property value, which works out only at certain periods.

Either way - no reason to despair. I get it - the leasing car advantage was sold very well by the companies - no doubt about it.

For completeness, I've linked the response article to your link you included from Jalopnik - "4 reasons why leasing is smarter than buying": http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/four-reaso...1679962322

Wealthy people do all kinds of shit with cars, not just purchase outright. The entire country of Singapore is beholden to effective 10 year leases and they have the most millionaire households per capita in the world. Are all of these rich people idiots for leasing their cars at 300% premiums?

And before I'm accused of putting out a straw man argument, here's a real-world data point: the same Singaporean buddy I referenced in my previous post tried setting up a time-share service for luxury cars. He wanted to take advantage of buying very late model cars and structure the business as a taxi service to avoid the more egregious fees associated with car-ownership. Unfortunately, it fell apart in focus group testing. Why? Because the rich people he was targeting all loved a good deal, but they loved the prestige of driving their own cars even more. Taxis and Uber in SG are actually very reasonably priced in that country, so if you wanted to save the most money, that'd be the way to go.

Also, going back to the Chevy Cruze deal where you could lease the car for $37/month for 24 months - never mind the $700 Costco cash card which you'd get either buying or leasing - you wouldn't jump at this if you needed a car?

The buy price with all applicable incentives would be $17,205 in the scenario on leasehackr if you purchased without any financing. In this case, lease to buy would cost you $9,645 ($888 in lease payments + $8757 cost of car at 63% buy price after lease end). If you think that saving 44% on this car by including a lease before purchase is only mental gymnastics, then you're way too tied to the dogma of "leasing is always a bad deal".

In my own experience, I pay a rock bottom payment with .00001 money factor (.024% equivalent) on my work van. I also don't worry at all about maintenance or the hassle of having to sell it after the warranty expires. After having my last 6 year old beater van stall on the freeway when my mom borrowed it to pick up fertilizer from the nursery, I'm very happy I made the choice to lease on a recurring 3 year basis.

Perhaps we are debating at cross purposes. If you're arguing that buying a used car is better than buying/leasing a new one, I don't have any beef with that on a strictly financial basis. However, your original statement was "leasing is a terrible option for a private person/midsize company" which is not the same thing at all.

Post: #78

(03-10-2017 12:15 PM)Troller Wrote:  I also have another reasoning. If you buy today a Carrera and it costs 70 000$. And if you sell it in two years for 60 000$. You´ve spent 10 000$ in the car. Each month costed you a minimum of 416$.

I appreciate the rational approach, and I follow your logic. I just doubt your figures.

Generally the first years cost the most. I can't believe that a Porsche loses only 1/7th of its value in the first 2 years. Losing a third of its value is more like it.

I'll see if I can find opportunities like you suggest but I'm skeptical. When that new carrera gets to $25,000 at maybe year 6 is when the depreciation nearly stops.

Post: #79

< Ay - agreed.

Leasing a completely new one vs. buying a moderately used on especially in the luxury segment - that is a no-brainer. Others pointed out that especially some luxury brands experience a deep price fall initially, but then later don't fall beyond a line. Various Mercedes AMG and Porsche models are like that - first a massive drop from 75.000$ to 35.000$ within 3-4 yrs, but then a miniscule depreciation from 35.000$ to 25.000$ for the next 5 years.

As for cheaper cars or business utility vehicles that is an entirely different calculation - depending on the deals, then it may be advantageous in some instances.

Post: #80

(03-08-2017 05:17 PM)FlyHigher123 Wrote:  I'd avoid the Boxster. It's lower quality than the usual Porsche-standard and is looked down on even by chicks who don't know anything about cars.

Maybe in Europe? But I have tested this theory many times when I was in the US with a variety of women. One of my friends is a die-hard gearhead porsche dude, and has a very nice 911 Turbo, upgraded turbos etc (at least 150k total maybe more into the car) vs a ho-hum Boxster my other friend just drives in the summer and bought for like 20k a few years ago.

Parked next to each other, asked girls which one they prefer?

9 out of 10 take the boxster because "its a convertible". Or, they have no idea what the difference is since they look very similar. After all, the front end is nearly identical.

This pisses my porsche friend off to no end. Its actually quite hilarious. He will go into rants about how they aren't even the same car or even in the same "league" and the girls mostly just stare and have no idea what he is talking about. They don't really care what is under the hood.

Sure, occasionally one girl will be "into cars" or whatever and will know. But this is certainly the exception to the rule. And maybe the girl who will disqualify you on the boxster vs the 911 is a good one to avoid since that is probably a very clear gold-digger red flag. Just my observations.

Post: #81

(03-10-2017 01:37 PM)GeneralMacDaddy Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 05:17 PM)FlyHigher123 Wrote:  I'd avoid the Boxster. It's lower quality than the usual Porsche-standard and is looked down on even by chicks who don't know anything about cars.

Maybe in Europe? But I have tested this theory many times when I was in the US with a variety of women. One of my friends is a die-hard gearhead porsche dude, and has a very nice 911 Turbo, upgraded turbos etc (at least 150k total maybe more into the car) vs a ho-hum Boxster my other friend just drives in the summer and bought for like 20k a few years ago.

Parked next to each other, asked girls which one they prefer?

9 out of 10 take the boxster because "its a convertible". Or, they have no idea what the difference is since they look very similar. After all, the front end is nearly identical.

This pisses my porsche friend off to no end. Its actually quite hilarious. He will go into rants about how they aren't even the same car or even in the same "league" and the girls mostly just stare and have no idea what he is talking about. They don't really care what is under the hood.

Sure, occasionally one girl will be "into cars" or whatever and will know. But this is certainly the exception to the rule. And maybe the girl who will disqualify you on the boxster vs the 911 is a good one to avoid since that is probably a very clear gold-digger red flag. Just my observations.

this has been my experience as well in the U.S.

Post: #82

(03-10-2017 12:45 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 12:15 PM)Troller Wrote:  I also have another reasoning. If you buy today a Carrera and it costs 70 000$. And if you sell it in two years for 60 000$. You´ve spent 10 000$ in the car. Each month costed you a minimum of 416$.

I appreciate the rational approach, and I follow your logic. I just doubt your figures.

Generally the first years cost the most. I can't believe that a Porsche loses only 1/7th of its value in the first 2 years. Losing a third of its value is more like it.

I'll see if I can find opportunities like you suggest but I'm skeptical. When that new carrera gets to $25,000 at maybe year 6 is when the depreciation nearly stops.

Here´s a video regarding the depreciation of 911:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuVUOB6D6-w

(2:52 mark)

1 year: 17,5%
2 year: 11,5
3 year: Total drop in value of 37%
4 year: More 2,4%.

3rd year seems to be one of the best time to buy. From the 3rd to the 4th year the depreciation is 2,4%.

The sweet spot according to this graphic might be between the 5-6 year. There is no depreciation. Buying a car with 5 years and reselling it on the 6 year. Will have no depreciation cost.

Post: #83

The reason I was curious as to your commute and whether there is someone there who needs to be impressed is that these factors may help in the analysis.

You must not have liked my Jag comment but its just true certain cars carry a defined image. Any prior body style Jag convertable will ... Well you'll see when you get hit on by GUYS.

I also asked OP what do you mean more dangerous?

First, this is a "bad" price for the cars you mention. Its the sort of Honda Accord alternative price levels that is suckers land of the just out of warranty luxury cars that will start costing you a lot of money and depreciatr like hell. If you want a good used car here 40k makes you a buyer of newer prime merchandise. In a few years when your car has proven a good one, and it is worth 25k, it wont be on the market. There are certain price levels in every market which are innefective.

These suggestions could be adjusted depending on your answers.

I have two, totally alternate to the others here:

1. 2017 Mini Countryman. BMW drive and build quality, totally new very masculine design with oversized wheel wells. 25k to 40k new. Absolutely one of the best new cars on the market. Fun image, you will get compliments at the gas station all the time. The office will think you have been overcome with a dose of COOL GUY and will be baffled and dumbfounded to understand it.

2. Buy two cars. Spend 7-8K on a onepay lease on an Impreza, Accord, Chevy sedan, etc. This will be you commuter, zero maintenance cost and zero unknown depreciation, zero payments except the check you write the day you take it. Yes you turn it in in the end. You will have consumed some cheap driving miles. The second car you take 5-12k and get something classic and fun. You fill in the blank of what you like, but go for dangerous and fun, save some money to fix it up. Drive it to work sometimes. Trade or sell when thee mood or market strikes.

There you go.

Post: #84

Or he could find a project muscle car on Craigslist and build that up to his liking.

I found some project c3s for about 3500 bucks.

Post: #85

(03-11-2017 11:48 AM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  2. Buy two cars. Spend 7-8K on a onepay lease on an Impreza, Accord, Chevy sedan, etc. This will be you commuter, zero maintenance cost and zero unknown depreciation, zero payments except the check you write the day you take it. Yes you turn it in in the end. You will have consumed some cheap driving miles. The second car you take 5-12k and get something classic and fun. You fill in the blank of what you like, but go for dangerous and fun, save some money to fix it up. Drive it to work sometimes. Trade or sell when thee mood or market strikes.

I already have the old, cheap SUV, and now looking for something fun/interesting. I was leaning towards a 7-12K second car as well.

Post: #86

(03-07-2017 08:57 PM)Kona Wrote:  Porsche - unless you are getting an old one and are a college professor, they just scream "I can't afford a Ferrari"

Could you please extend on the Porsche-professor thing?

Post: #87

(03-08-2017 07:01 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 04:21 PM)ShotgunUppercuts Wrote:  are you into older cars op?

I love 'em but i'm older so its not a good look.

For example, a 70s Corvette Stingray would be ideal, but is going to look like an antique and rub off on me.

Dude, you think a convertible American muscle car makes you look older than some of those midrange Jaguars you posted?

You're going to be the same age either way, at least one makes you look like a bad ass and not like you're bring your kids to soccer practice.

Not only will a classic car not depreciate in value as drastically as the other cars listed, it could actually make you money if you're willing to do the leg work of buying and restoring one (not literally doing the mechanical work yourself, but buying the body and paying for paint, engine, etc. individually) since they sell for more than they actually cost.

This:

(03-08-2017 09:48 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

Vs.







All of those cars are selling for around $25,000, though you could get something even better if you went non-convertible.

Post: #88

@OP

What about used Challenger or Camaro? I can't speak on their reliability but they look pretty bad ass.

Post: #89

Buy 20k worth of bitcoin and ethereum.

Spend 5K on a diesel VW caddie and work on your body and game.

Post: #90

Funny thread, I just bought a mid 80s 380SL




I adore these old Benzs and love their looks. They're entirely mechanical beasts. The most electronic gizmo on them was the radio so the CIA will have to be more creative when they want to plan an assassination!

I picked the specific model years because these cars got moderately decent fuel economy (20 city and 24 hwy) which is great considering fuel is cheap right now. The car has a rebuilt engine at 200k miles. The previous owner fully restored the vehicle. The best part is it is a convertible. The hard top comes off and there's a soft top for when you want a convertible. Perfect for southern california!

I'm so happy to be returning to America and decided to go all out. No more public transportation for me! It's been a dream of mine to drive one of these cars.

Post: #91

Congratulations man.

I'm guessing it's a v8 under that hood?

Post: #92

that's a classic.

I didn't have that on the list but yeah I might add it.

Post: #93

The best part is, I bought it for $7300! My last Benz didn't have aircon either so this is a posh experience for sure. I've never owned such a nice car before.

I enjoy doing mechanical work on them too. Hobby of passion.

@Shotgun yes there's a V8 in there.

Post: #94

Are those Lexus Touring Coupes from the past any good? They seem to be very cheap; the SC300 & 400. Got some good reviews

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/02...xus-sc400/


Also, any reliable older cars with V12? I'm thinking of the unreliable 1980's Jag 12's, but something that runs.

Post: #95

(03-10-2017 01:37 PM)GeneralMacDaddy Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 05:17 PM)FlyHigher123 Wrote:  I'd avoid the Boxster. It's lower quality than the usual Porsche-standard and is looked down on even by chicks who don't know anything about cars.

Maybe in Europe? But I have tested this theory many times when I was in the US with a variety of women. One of my friends is a die-hard gearhead porsche dude, and has a very nice 911 Turbo, upgraded turbos etc (at least 150k total maybe more into the car) vs a ho-hum Boxster my other friend just drives in the summer and bought for like 20k a few years ago.

Parked next to each other, asked girls which one they prefer?

9 out of 10 take the boxster because "its a convertible". Or, they have no idea what the difference is since they look very similar. After all, the front end is nearly identical.

This pisses my porsche friend off to no end. Its actually quite hilarious. He will go into rants about how they aren't even the same car or even in the same "league" and the girls mostly just stare and have no idea what he is talking about. They don't really care what is under the hood.

Sure, occasionally one girl will be "into cars" or whatever and will know. But this is certainly the exception to the rule. And maybe the girl who will disqualify you on the boxster vs the 911 is a good one to avoid since that is probably a very clear gold-digger red flag. Just my observations.

Of course chicks don't look down on Boxsters, what flyhigher is saying is ridiculous. I can guarantee that near zero chicks are going to think "if only he had a 911 I'd go out and fuck him but since he only has a Boxster I'm not going to bother, now that Toyota Camry, that's the bomb".

Like you said, if you do meet some chick that does think that then you're way better off not wasting your time with her.

Boxsters are better looking than the 911, handle great and if you like convertibles then they're the obvious choice.

(03-11-2017 09:57 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  

(03-07-2017 08:57 PM)Kona Wrote:  Porsche - unless you are getting an old one and are a college professor, they just scream "I can't afford a Ferrari"

Could you please extend on the Porsche-professor thing?

Apart from Kona no one thinks that, no one looks at someone driving a Porsche and thinks "that poor guy, he couldn't afford a Ferrari like everyone else so he had to settle for a Porsche, he's obviously struggling."

Post: #96

I agree - if you want to combine Game effectiveness then buying a Porsche Boxster or even a BMW Z4 is fine enough.

Sports convertibles have equal female appeal as Pick-up-Trucks. The only thing above them are high-level sports cars like Lamborghini. S-class Mercedes has less of an impact on girls than a classic 1970s Mercedes convertible.

It's mostly associated with fun, adventure, r-selection. Girls will only assess your car worth exactly when they are purely looking for BetaBucks or gold-digging utterly without being interested in you at all.

But I guess that is not exactly what you had in mind with the purchase anyway. Either way - if you combine those things then a Porsche Boxster is the best choice - sufficient luxury, good reliability with Porsche and enough r-selected sex appeal. You cannot really buy a 911 for that money unless you go pick a really old one, but that does not make much sense then.

Post: #97

What about a BMW 850?

Post: #98

(03-12-2017 05:51 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The best part is, I bought it for $7300! My last Benz didn't have aircon either so this is a posh experience for sure. I've never owned such a nice car before.

I enjoy doing mechanical work on them too. Hobby of passion.

@Shotgun yes there's a V8 in there.

Great find! This is a nice looking car that looks fun to drive and many will appreciate, guys and girls alike. Bonus is if treated well I think has a chance to actually increase in value in the next 5-10 years. Porsches from this era are all getting crazy expensive. At least it won't go down in price, you can most likely easily sell it for what you bought it for. Can't say that about most cars.

Post: #99

(03-12-2017 05:51 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The best part is, I bought it for $7300! My last Benz didn't have aircon either so this is a posh experience for sure. I've never owned such a nice car before.

I enjoy doing mechanical work on them too. Hobby of passion.

@Shotgun yes there's a V8 in there.

Congrats. Awesome car.

Post: #100

(03-10-2017 01:37 PM)GeneralMacDaddy Wrote:  

(03-08-2017 05:17 PM)FlyHigher123 Wrote:  I'd avoid the Boxster. It's lower quality than the usual Porsche-standard and is looked down on even by chicks who don't know anything about cars.

Maybe in Europe? But I have tested this theory many times when I was in the US with a variety of women. One of my friends is a die-hard gearhead porsche dude, and has a very nice 911 Turbo, upgraded turbos etc (at least 150k total maybe more into the car) vs a ho-hum Boxster my other friend just drives in the summer and bought for like 20k a few years ago.

Parked next to each other, asked girls which one they prefer?

9 out of 10 take the boxster because "its a convertible". Or, they have no idea what the difference is since they look very similar. After all, the front end is nearly identical.

This pisses my porsche friend off to no end. Its actually quite hilarious. He will go into rants about how they aren't even the same car or even in the same "league" and the girls mostly just stare and have no idea what he is talking about. They don't really care what is under the hood.

Sure, occasionally one girl will be "into cars" or whatever and will know. But this is certainly the exception to the rule. And maybe the girl who will disqualify you on the boxster vs the 911 is a good one to avoid since that is probably a very clear gold-digger red flag. Just my observations.

Let me chime in as someone who has a 2017 Porsche Macan. If anyone buys a car strictly for girls they are out of their mind and I have no respect for that person. Buy a luxury sports car because YOU enjoy it, because YOU like the luxury, safety, speed, comfort, electronics, style, etc. of that car! What other people think should be a distant second.
For me I spent a little south of 70k on the Porsche but so far it has been the best 2,000 miles of my life. I could have leased this car but lease payments would actually have been more than my monthly payments are now, plus I like the fact that I can put unlimited mileage on this car plus customize it (such as installing a 360degree Valentine radar system).