Post: #1

23 years old. Still on the path of becoming a Red Pill man. Figuring out my purpose, and what I want to do as a career has been the most frustrating and confusing part of my life. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have any deep passions that jump out at me. I didn't go to College. Currently, I'm working as a manufacturing technician making $17.50/hr. I dread getting out of bed every morning. This job is sapping my energy and drive. This is not what I want to do with my life.

So far I've given a lot of thought into sales. The freedom, the hustle, and large income potential intrigues me. Is anyone here in Sales? I've also given a lot of though to learning web development.

I'm wondering what careers fellow RvF members have, what their income is like, and how much they enjoy it. Any advice for this youngin'?

Post: #2

Read this section first, plenty of threads to scout that will answer your question.

On sales and work there is a question, do you like sales or is it just the perceived potential benefits about it that attracts you?

Post: #3

I've been in sales before. It can be a fantastic career is you're hungry for more and especially if you have a great product to sell that you believe in and there's a genuine demand for it. You could also start a side-hustle on the weekends until it becomes large enough to be your primary job.

Post: #4

I sell myself as "quite the catch" to young ladies around the world

Post: #5

I've done manual labor and sales and honestly I found sales to be the far more crushing of the two.

I recommend college, but that's just me

Post: #6

Wouldn't recommend college at all. I play poker, couple weeks of study + decent books you could probably make $15-20/hour in your city playing low stakes while you figure out what you want to do. Just need a bit of pattern recognition, self-awareness and a bit of math/psychology wouldn't hurt.

Car salesman is a good place to get your feet wet and see if sales are for you. Have a few friends that tried it out and loved it.

Post: #7

Bet on sports, invest savings in stocks and real estate. Missed the crypto bubble (despite getting told to buy bitcoin at $5) so still grinding for freedom :<

Post: #8

Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

Post: #9

Thanks for all the advice so far. I don't know guys, perhaps I'm too picky with my career choice. Or if i'm being honest, I think there is a bit of fear in choosing the wrong job. It's like I want too much. I want freedom. I want to make a lot of money. I want time to have free time to go hiking and hunting and hit the gym and not constantly be stressed out about my career. I just don't want to be a corporate slave to the business lifestyle. I'm an outdoors type of guy. I'm searching for the "perfect job" and I believe it's just deep rooted fear and procrastination with my life. There are sacrifices that need to be made.

Post: #10

(08-11-2017 06:06 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

Interesting Beast. What would you say makes sales the hardest thing you've ever done? I'm assuming it's the constant grind to generate new clients? Do you find yourself stressing out often in this job?

Post: #11

Maybe PM Rawmeo for some advice. My understanding is that he's become very successful at sales.

Post: #12

I'm a manager at Sunglasses Hut. I can give you all the sales tips you need.

Post: #13

(08-11-2017 08:02 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  

(08-11-2017 06:06 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

Interesting Beast. What would you say makes sales the hardest thing you've ever done? I'm assuming it's the constant grind to generate new clients? Do you find yourself stressing out often in this job?

It is the hardest thing i've ever had to do. To be blunt, i've already tried to quit and the guy i'm working for gave me a good pep talk which convinced me to reevaluate how i'm approaching everything. It also helped I manage to add another guy into the pipeline. Or should I say another plate? It's weird how this is all connected to a certain subforum we have here. If you start doing sales, you'll see what I mean.

This is all done via cold calling. Honestly, this is one of the best things I could be doing to myself right now and has helped me greatly in my communication for helping me break out of my shell. What kicked me into high gear was restarting my work out routine.

To be fair, I have zero training whatsoever and completely got rejected... hard. I had to ask around to seasoned sales professionals for advice both from RVF and in real life. Those same resources recommended some good reading materials. Spin selling and Challenger sale helped me frame a good script to work on.

But honestly, calls never go as scripted and almost all of the time i'm just shooting the shit and hearing what someone else has to say.

Breaking the ice is the hard part. Afterwords, it's very easy.

I'm hoping my job gets easier however. Part of what we've adding right now is a marketing component to bring in warm leads. I'm grateful we're a small outlet where we have full control of both sales and marketing. This is where I think the job will begin to ease in. Cold calling is important and valuable to do in a salesman's toolchest. I just hope to eventually upgrade my arsenal with other tricks soon.

This work i'm doing came surprisingly from networking via a personal hobby. People of means tend to congregate around the following hobbies in big cities:

1. Golfing
2. Yachting
3. Classic cars
4. Art
5. Classical music

My involvement in a few opened doors for me. My advice is to find a way to get a degree for as cheaply as possible in something relevant. Computer science and sales experience is a dangerous combo and a great way to make lots of money.

Good luck.

Post: #14

(08-12-2017 01:28 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(08-11-2017 08:02 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  

(08-11-2017 06:06 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

Interesting Beast. What would you say makes sales the hardest thing you've ever done? I'm assuming it's the constant grind to generate new clients? Do you find yourself stressing out often in this job?

It is the hardest thing i've ever had to do. To be blunt, i've already tried to quit and the guy i'm working for gave me a good pep talk which convinced me to reevaluate how i'm approaching everything. It also helped I manage to add another guy into the pipeline. Or should I say another plate? It's weird how this is all connected to a certain subforum we have here. If you start doing sales, you'll see what I mean.

This is all done via cold calling. Honestly, this is one of the best things I could be doing to myself right now and has helped me greatly in my communication for helping me break out of my shell. What kicked me into high gear was restarting my work out routine.

To be fair, I have zero training whatsoever and completely got rejected... hard. I had to ask around to seasoned sales professionals for advice both from RVF and in real life. Those same resources recommended some good reading materials. Spin selling and Challenger sale helped me frame a good script to work on.

But honestly, calls never go as scripted and almost all of the time i'm just shooting the shit and hearing what someone else has to say.

Breaking the ice is the hard part. Afterwords, it's very easy.

I'm hoping my job gets easier however. Part of what we've adding right now is a marketing component to bring in warm leads. I'm grateful we're a small outlet where we have full control of both sales and marketing. This is where I think the job will begin to ease in. Cold calling is important and valuable to do in a salesman's toolchest. I just hope to eventually upgrade my arsenal with other tricks soon.

This work i'm doing came surprisingly from networking via a personal hobby. People of means tend to congregate around the following hobbies in big cities:

1. Golfing
2. Yachting
3. Classic cars
4. Art
5. Classical music

My involvement in a few opened doors for me. My advice is to find a way to get a degree for as cheaply as possible in something relevant. Computer science and sales experience is a dangerous combo and a great way to make lots of money.

Good luck.

This is what I do. I am a software engineer and a copywriter. I've been burned too much giving free advice to 'green' people who do not know what they want.
I started selling and playing with computers and the internet at 13...

It's a very fun life's work. Because if you don't take a long term approach with selling, you will take the rejection personally. But it is the best way to get the living you want.
A hint: it's very similar to running correct Game on chicks...

All the best with your decision.

Post: #15

(08-11-2017 07:59 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  Thanks for all the advice so far. I don't know guys, perhaps I'm too picky with my career choice. Or if i'm being honest, I think there is a bit of fear in choosing the wrong job. It's like I want too much. I want freedom. I want to make a lot of money. I want time to have free time to go hiking and hunting and hit the gym and not constantly be stressed out about my career. I just don't want to be a corporate slave to the business lifestyle. I'm an outdoors type of guy. I'm searching for the "perfect job" and I believe it's just deep rooted fear and procrastination with my life. There are sacrifices that need to be made.

Sales jobs can cover some of this.

Want freedom? Exceed your quota.

Want a lot of money? Exceed your quota. Sky is the limit technically.

Want free time? Exceed your quota.

Want to be outdoors? Be an outside rep; particularly selling an outdoors product.

Corporate slavery: Sales is probably the closest thing you will get to freedom working for a corporation. A lot of red pill/semi-red pill folks and no place for incompetent/dead weight types to hide in for long. You eat what you kill. However, you will likely still have to deal with corporate political bullshit to some degree.

As for stress: The reason sales people get paid as well as they do is partly because of the uncertainty and stress that comes with the job. Killed it last quarter but blowing it this quarter? Better be looking for another job. Stress management skills are essential to being in sales.

Stress Part 2: There is a constant pressure to perform and meet metrics and sometimes it's a no-win situation. Changes in leadership/owners (leadership/owners are stupid). Changes in product (product quality declines). Changes in marketing (wrong message; no money, etc). Bad press. No press. Unrealistic quotas. Changes in territories after starting job (ex: you had 4 states; you now have 1... but your quota is the same).

Salespeople get (potentially) paid very well because they deal with the aforementioned roller coaster of highs and lows, a roller coaster much of that they have zero control over, with job security always hanging in the balance. ALL THE WHILE still having to perform up to standard. Can't manage the stress of all that? Don't do it.

But you won't know until your try. And try you should.

There are PLENTY entry level sales gigs out there. Look at software or medical device since that's where the big money is.

However, don't discount arenas you have an significant interest in; however niche/unsexy/non-trendy they might appear to be. It's a billion times easier to sell something you have a natural interest in vs forcing yourself to learn something just to sell it. Pretty much every organization on the planet has some sales force of some variety so you have options.

Worst case is you do sales for a bit, don't like it, and use the skills you learned to launch your own business and/or apply it to other professional or personal endeavors.

Bottom line: You're 23 years old and are in a dead end shit job with no college. Outside of starting your own business, your best bets are sales (tons of sales jobs don't give a fuck about college) or the military. Pick 1 of the 3 and go do it.

One last thing....the absolute worst thing you can is sit still and procrastinate. You DO NOT want to be that 30-something dude who is still "trying to figure it out." You HAVE to try things out to figure out ultimately what is the best fit for you. You likely won't get it right the first time (but you might) but you will learn a lot of vital stuff about yourself in the process of experimenting. Use your time wisely and just do something immediately (i.e. apply to sales jobs).

Post: #16

(08-11-2017 06:06 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

How can I find a gig like this? I've been looking for a software sales job and have a degree in info systems + good understanding of software

Post: #17

(08-13-2017 12:16 AM)tonysoprano Wrote:  

(08-11-2017 06:06 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Hilariously, i'm in sales as we speak. B2B as a matter of fact for software.

It's probably the hardest thing i've ever done (coming from IT). You get over rejection really fast. Took me three weeks, but I finally have two solid prospects in my pipeline. Let's see if I can close them.

You also need to be "hungry' but not starving in sales especially when the cycles are so long with big ticket items. For me i'm grateful my wife has a steady income stream while I close a few prospects.

OP, a lot of guys hate on college (myself included) but a degree would open some more avenues for you especially in sales. I would seek a degree that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Look at doing a 2+2 (community college and regular) or local state school. Just make sure your expense is stupid low.

How can I find a gig like this? I've been looking for a software sales job and have a degree in info systems + good understanding of software

get an sdr job at the first company you can.

Post: #18

Very quick rundown on software sales since I do it.

Good companies will have sdr's, inbound leads, lists for you and sales support. Cold calling is part of your job, but not a cornerstone. For example you will call people who visited your booth at a trade show, or people who filled in some form on your site, or even old trial customers. Even guys that contact you ready to buy will be distributed between the sales team.

Most importantly a proven repeatable process to sell in X indsutry (IE, on average if you call 1,000 people in X industry with this script 5 deals will occur). This took my company over a year to create.

The only time you should be cold calling is when you're not working on deals or inbound leads after you move to a closing role. Success here is a definite possibility if all the above are in place. This is the kind of role you can make 200k-500k at the enterprise level, especially at a big established company (Even as high as 1M in a good year, though I'm no where near that yet).

If a job is call heavy, MAKE SURE they have a proven process in place. Also ask what the average rep is making and how the turnover is. If there is low turnover and lots of reps doing well you may be able to skip all the other reqs. Most importantly how hard is it to do? Skill can only go so far. For example trying to sell to education in the summer or oil while its down is a steep uphill battle few can get past.

Shit companies will tell you to start selling or give you some shit list. Failure here is likely. If they have a lot of reps that get fired you might want to look elsewhere. Base salary + benefits are expected in b2b.

Commission only is for 2 kinds of jobs:

1. Jobs meant for pros who want a higher earning potential, generally you give up your base to make a whole lot more. If you know you can sell you might get 25-30% of each sale as a 1099 rather than 10-15%
2. Complete shit jobs where it's likely you won't make much. If you're not sure your in #1 it's likely this one.

There are exceptions, but this is a good guideline. If a company won't pay you a 40-60k base it usually means they don't think you can succeed and want to limit their downside risk.

You CAN make 200-500k and sometimes more selling to the enterprise, but to get these jobs you first need 3-5 years of proven experience. Your first job or two will most likely suck -- 100-200 cold calls a day handing off your leads kind of suck (sales dev rep, biz dev rep, they're all over glassdoor. Do this job for no longer than a year or so).

If you do get sick of the grind you can me an inside sales manager as little as 1-2 years in for the rest of your career? (not sure how old they'll let you be), or eventually a VP of sales and a lot of these guys go into their 50's. Guys apparently make 5m+/yr doing this at the highest levels.

If you think you have what it takes give it a shot. If you succeed you'll make a lot of money for a long time. If you fail you'll be right back where you started.

and read this

/archive/inde...60173.html

Post: #19

OP, I can't help it. Most of these guys are giving you Corporate advice.
Good salesmen don't work for anyone but themselves. Even in a corporate environment.

When I was very young I quit electronics selling because they train you to sell THEIR way.
An entry level job's only function is to break you out of your social bubble. Nothing more, nothing less.

A real sales person creates/finds a product and sells it at a great margin.
This is the new reality of selling. A real salesman puts his money up and takes 100% Ownership and Commission.
Money is not the end game. Learning and insights are. Because they make you more money in a rapidly dynamic and changing landscape.

To make a decision of what kinda salesman you want to be, if you even want to be a salesman.
You must literally be a killer. You are not a salesman if you don't eat what you kill.
It's too bad most Corporate sales jobs are no longer commission. That's how I started. You sold or you starved.
Most of these companies phased it out to automate Sales Training. Full Commission Sales is a beautiful model if you are a Savvy Salesman.

The best way to know if you are good salesman in today's world is set up a website or blog and try to sell something on it.
Granted, most of the info out there is complete shit. But, again, you're not sure what you wanna do yet. PM me when you're ready.

How do you get laid? Do you answer to some Manager? Would you want 7% of some chick? Or the whole thing?
You learn by doing it yourself. You don't share rewards, as Lions do not share the kill.

You are the Sales Manager. You are the Boss. Once you take that mentality if it doesn't work out and you still want to sell...
You'll have some killer experience to stand out above the crowd...
This starts with your personal life. You have to get your shit together first. (PAY OFF DEBT!!!) then look into sales. I go ghost sales shopping at high end stores... It's a joke.

IF you want to be a salesman.... Very, very, very hard work. I don't know how old you are, but it takes about a decade of pain and study to get very good and make the type of money these people are talking about on Corporate Time. You will have much more upside Independently though. I always say. The richest men in the world are indie salesmen.

Post: #20

OP says he wants free time, and for that reason I would definitely NOT advocate sales.

Sales = pay for production, usually bonuses are on the margin.

You sell 10 units = 2000 dollars, 15 units = 3000 20 units = 5000. Almost all companies set quotas and then start putting in batshit insane bonuses for each tier past quota.

In order to successfully move that far past quota, you usually have to be willing to grind out far harder than everyone else there, which means coming in early, staying late, and doing additional research/prospecting off hours.

You can definitely get the money you want if you're good, but it's likely going to cost you your time.

Post: #21

Yeah, but that's also common in any profession.

One thing you see a lot in finance is that the people who are good have a lot of options. That's because it is their relationships that add value and those relationships will get carried from place to place. Not that long ago Bank of America poached a healthcare investment banker from Guggenheim specifically because they knew he would bring those relationships and paid him a $50 million signing bonus to move.

But do keep in mind it takes time to build those relationships. If your goal is to become uber wealthy your goal shouldn't be to jump into "sales" and make quick bucks. The lowest risk way to do it is to work in a field that will help you to build a high quality rolodex while also leading you towards a position where you can credibly sell your services. Strategy advisory, Technical consulting, Investment Banking, etc. are all roles that fit the bill.

Outside of this your primary area of emphasis should be working in CLIENT FACING roles. Once you figure out what you are good at then find a job where you are as close as possible to the revenue generation in your business. Great example in my field. Finance is a high flying career...in financial firms. At a consumer goods company it's the marketers who have the most direct relationship with generating money and consequently tend to run things.

If you work in any "computer science" field (as, for some reason, most guys on game forums do) then the absolute last thing you want to do should be working in the back office in IT support. You're going to have much brighter prospects working with a company like Sogeti or Accenture where you will be traveling around between different client sites helping with their problems. If you make sure to groom the connections you make on those jobs then you will have a lot of opportunities open in or outside the field.

Should you continue working in IT yourself or in sales it will be easy to sell your services to people who already know and like you (and only a few B2B accounts can make you a nice living). If you hate your job then it shouldn't be too hard to call one of these contacts and get them to help you.....and most importantly when you want to start your own business it makes things massively easier if you have people in your network who can at as early stage investors and/or join your company to bring in skills that you don't bring to the job.

Post: #22

(08-13-2017 10:27 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  OP says he wants free time, and for that reason I would definitely NOT advocate sales.

Sales = pay for production, usually bonuses are on the margin.

You sell 10 units = 2000 dollars, 15 units = 3000 20 units = 5000. Almost all companies set quotas and then start putting in batshit insane bonuses for each tier past quota.

In order to successfully move that far past quota, you usually have to be willing to grind out far harder than everyone else there, which means coming in early, staying late, and doing additional research/prospecting off hours.

You can definitely get the money you want if you're good, but it's likely going to cost you your time.

Haha...

Post: #23

(08-13-2017 10:08 AM)crdr Wrote:  OP, I can't help it. Most of these guys are giving you Corporate advice.
Good salesmen don't work for anyone but themselves. Even in a corporate environment.

When I was very young I quit electronics selling because they train you to sell THEIR way.
An entry level job's only function is to break you out of your social bubble. Nothing more, nothing less.

A real sales person creates/finds a product and sells it at a great margin.
This is the new reality of selling. A real salesman puts his money up and takes 100% Ownership and Commission.
Money is not the end game. Learning and insights are. Because they make you more money in a rapidly dynamic and changing landscape.

To make a decision of what kinda salesman you want to be, if you even want to be a salesman.
You must literally be a killer. You are not a salesman if you don't eat what you kill.
It's too bad most Corporate sales jobs are no longer commission. That's how I started. You sold or you starved.
Most of these companies phased it out to automate Sales Training. Full Commission Sales is a beautiful model if you are a Savvy Salesman.

The best way to know if you are good salesman in today's world is set up a website or blog and try to sell something on it.
Granted, most of the info out there is complete shit. But, again, you're not sure what you wanna do yet. PM me when you're ready.

How do you get laid? Do you answer to some Manager? Would you want 7% of some chick? Or the whole thing?
You learn by doing it yourself. You don't share rewards, as Lions do not share the kill.

You are the Sales Manager. You are the Boss. Once you take that mentality if it doesn't work out and you still want to sell...
You'll have some killer experience to stand out above the crowd...
This starts with your personal life. You have to get your shit together first. (PAY OFF DEBT!!!) then look into sales. I go ghost sales shopping at high end stores... It's a joke.

IF you want to be a salesman.... Very, very, very hard work. I don't know how old you are, but it takes about a decade of pain and study to get very good and make the type of money these people are talking about on Corporate Time. You will have much more upside Independently though. I always say. The richest men in the world are indie salesmen.

This is the exact reason I want to get into sales. I have no interest selling other people's shit, but I figured if I need a way to pay the bills while working on my own stuff on the side it's better to be on the phone learning this stuff than behind a computer punching in code all day like I am now.

I already have a service I'm selling on the side and plan to hit the phones tomorrow at full force.

Post: #24

Check out some of my other posts on this forum, specifically in the Entrepreneur thread.

Right now is the easiest time in history to start your own 1 man operation in Scrap Metal Recycling.
The overhead is low, you set the hours and you'll make as much money as the effort you put in.
Networking with people pays off massively in this field and can rapidly snowball effect your earnings over a short period of time.
Learn the trade, make the connections and become a one man army of wealth.

Other recommendations: Start a Landscaping Service or get creative on Craigslist.

Craigslist has made me a great amount of money and given me unlimited networking opportunities to capitalize on.

Post: #25

I used to be in sales a long time ago. I suppose I still am in a certain way.

However back in the day, I used to love the buzz, making deals happen (not so much the admin after, the pure rush of closing a deal).

In the end though, it got tiresome when without fail, the counter was set back to zero on Jan 1 each year and you started all over again.

Ps. Ski pro changed his life around and now does pretty much what you can imagine he does.