Post: #1

This forum has been a goldmine of knowledge and I've tried adding as much of my intel as possible the past few months. Wanted to get some advice, especially after a few recent dates where I've gotten ghosted after a 1st date, or even worse, been completely friendzoned. I posted this on another thread briefly, but wanted to start a new one to get a wider net of opinions. I live in New York City, am American, and most are online dates (90%+)

I was doing a brief tally and I would say that around 30% of the women who I go on first dates with want to see me again (i.e. respond back to my texts and initially want to see me again). Out of that 30%, a few more flake over text over time haha.

Anyways, thinking about my date game over the past few days and I feel like the following are my biggest hurdles:

1) The women always seem to want to ask the basic questions (where did you grow up, what do you do for fun, what do you read for books, any pets, etc.) and I get caught up in just having a basic conversation the entire time. Anytime I do bring up a more intimate/riskier/interesting question, the girl doesn't seem to have any response. And then they gear the conversation back into basic shit again and ask shit like "what's my favorite color?" right after I attempt to make the conversation more interesting. To make matters worse, almost ALL of the girls I've been on dates with are the most basic women ever - there's literally nothing interesting about their lives except for "hanging out with their friends", "watching netflix", and "going out for brunch and margaritas". It's insanely hard to keep a conversation going when that's all I have to work with.....And then at the end of the date they tell me how there was "no connection"

I've had many, many dates where I make out heavily but still get no text back after. Crazy.

2) Adding onto my point from above, when I do try to make the conversation more interesting, then sometimes they either get 1) weirded out or 2) just don't feel comfortable with answering it.

My solution to all of this: I can start off the conversation for the first stage with normal/comfortable talk, but then need to lead and force the conversation to get more intimate/sexual asap and most importantly, absolutely stay away from basic topics and start asking more intimate questions that trigger and play around with her emotions. Even if she tries to stray away from those questions, continually lead her into them. I do admit that I need to do a better job of keeping frame, eye contact, etc as well. My kino is on point though and I generally do a good job with this.

Examples of more intimate/emotional questions:

What are you afraid of? (making her think of the last time she was afraid)
What is your most treasured memory? (triggering positive emotion)
What is your most terrible memory? (triggering negative emotion)
How close are you to your family? (triggering family emotions)
What's the most embarrassing thing you've done (triggering another emotion)
etc.

The only way to get a connection is through hitting her emotions, not through logical talk.

How do all of you get a conversation/date more intimate? How do you hit her emotions? Thoughts?

Post: #2

Talk about people. Then about relationships. Then about sex.

Or just physical escalate and talk about ...uhh... panda's or something.

Try to sit next to a girl. Worst place to sit is on opposite sides of a table. Benches and couches are best.

Talking for too long is a waste of time and it is usually boring. Bounce around more.

Post: #3

You need to joke more my friend. You need to make some jokes about the things she tells you. Don't answer all the questions she asks directly, you need to be more vague about your life in order to keep her interested on who you are. Remember you are the one that has to lead the conversation, not her. Women these days don't like to get hit in their emotions, because mostn of them have boring lives and it will get them many times uncomfortable. You need to ask her stupid stuff, make fun about her answers, keep your answers vague, indirectly complement her, talk about girls and guys and eventually escalte the conversationt to sex, understand their body language, get close.

Post: #4

Dupe.

/thread-28403.html

Post: #5

One of the main things that have helped me is story-telling.

Try to ingrain into your social game that "questions suck". Stay away from them as much as possible.

When I first heard this I thought "well I'm sure there are some times you can/should ask questions" and there definitely is, but its the mindset you want to change.

Try to think of the date as like the bachelor show. You are the bachelor, and you are trying to vet her. However, not through questions, but through conversation.

I understand that's a broad term. Depending on your personality, you can get a lot out of the way with stories. All it takes to start is to bring up something relevant (current events, local events, things to come etc.). This will not only open her up and her opinions (which, whatever, at least it gets her talking) but will also help you come up with interesting stories/scenario's that relate, which should DHV if you embellish a bit. Hell, I've even made up stories on the spot just to get the conversation going.

Be charismatic when telling the stories, swear a bit here and there, be into it, use your hands and gesture (by the way this is a GREAT way to KINO and escalate, one of my true go-to's for touching - ex. "Yeah then the guy grabs my arm and starts telling at me" *grab her arm lightly to simulate*). A great story-teller can change the dull, bland, dynamic of question-asking into almost a bit of a competition. Trust me, she will try to match your energy, or at least one-up you by telling you some stories as well.

This has never failed me. If she seems uninterested in your stories or doesn't have any of her own, try to make it very obvious that it's a turn-off (not directly). Be aware that it might take a story or two for her to warm-up (especially if she's shy, don't mistake her lack of energy as her being uninterested, she could be trying to match you as well but hasn't done this much before).

Your mentality should be "I'm a fun, charismatic guy full of life, and I have fun, exhilarating stories to prove it. I wonder if she can keep up".

Best of luck.

Post: #6

(10-16-2018 04:13 AM)OCZ Wrote:  You need to joke more my friend. You need to make some jokes about the things she tells you. Don't answer all the questions she asks directly, you need to be more vague about your life in order to keep her interested on who you are. Remember you are the one that has to lead the conversation, not her. Women these days don't like to get hit in their emotions, because mostn of them have boring lives and it will get them many times uncomfortable. You need to ask her stupid stuff, make fun about her answers, keep your answers vague, indirectly complement her, talk about girls and guys and eventually escalte the conversationt to sex, understand their body language, get close.

It's interesting you say that. So I actually think that one of my problems is that I joke too much. My natural personality is a complete goofball, being sarcastic, and joking around to everything.

There's been dates where I've joked around throughout the date from beginning to end. Teased, been insanely sarcastic throughout the date, etc. But ironically, for all of those, none of them worked out. Not a single one.

I think the reason joking around didn't get me anywhere is twofold:

1) I did it from beginning to end on the date. I never stepped into a stage of intimacy and sexual-ness. The "just me and her stage"

2) I feel like being an entertainer and joker the entire date can take away from the sense that you are a serious, masculine male that will fuck the shit out of her and take her away

I could be wrong, but my two cents.

As mentioned before, I think my new date strategy will be to spend the first stage of the date having very little small talk and being masculine, tough, and confident as hell, and then go into the second stage as soon as possible, which will be to deep dive into the intimacy/sexual part of the date. I will definitely make the latter happen!

Post: #7

(10-16-2018 09:43 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 04:13 AM)OCZ Wrote:  You need to joke more my friend. You need to make some jokes about the things she tells you. Don't answer all the questions she asks directly, you need to be more vague about your life in order to keep her interested on who you are. Remember you are the one that has to lead the conversation, not her. Women these days don't like to get hit in their emotions, because mostn of them have boring lives and it will get them many times uncomfortable. You need to ask her stupid stuff, make fun about her answers, keep your answers vague, indirectly complement her, talk about girls and guys and eventually escalte the conversationt to sex, understand their body language, get close.

It's interesting you say that. So I actually think that one of my problems is that I joke too much. My natural personality is a complete goofball, being sarcastic, and joking around to everything.

There's been dates where I've joked around throughout the date from beginning to end. Teased, been insanely sarcastic throughout the date, etc. But ironically, for all of those, none of them worked out. Not a single one.

Constant joking/teasing/sarcasm can kill dates quickly. It all depends on the girl with whom you're interacting.

While some will enjoy your brand of teasing, banter and push/pull-- other girls with a shitty or incompatible sense of humor simply might not 'get it' and will be repelled.

You need to gauge her reactions early and try to calibrate accordingly.

Post: #8

(10-16-2018 09:43 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 04:13 AM)OCZ Wrote:  You need to joke more my friend. You need to make some jokes about the things she tells you. Don't answer all the questions she asks directly, you need to be more vague about your life in order to keep her interested on who you are. Remember you are the one that has to lead the conversation, not her. Women these days don't like to get hit in their emotions, because mostn of them have boring lives and it will get them many times uncomfortable. You need to ask her stupid stuff, make fun about her answers, keep your answers vague, indirectly complement her, talk about girls and guys and eventually escalte the conversationt to sex, understand their body language, get close.

It's interesting you say that. So I actually think that one of my problems is that I joke too much. My natural personality is a complete goofball, being sarcastic, and joking around to everything.

There's been dates where I've joked around throughout the date from beginning to end. Teased, been insanely sarcastic throughout the date, etc. But ironically, for all of those, none of them worked out. Not a single one.

I think the reason joking around didn't get me anywhere is twofold:

1) I did it from beginning to end on the date. I never stepped into a stage of intimacy and sexual-ness. The "just me and her stage"

2) I feel like being an entertainer and joker the entire date can take away from the sense that you are a serious, masculine male that will fuck the shit out of her and take her away

I could be wrong, but my two cents.

As mentioned before, I think my new date strategy will be to spend the first stage of the date having very little small talk and being masculine, tough, and confident as hell, and then go into the second stage as soon as possible, which will be to deep dive into the intimacy/sexual part of the date. I will definitely make the latter happen!

Maybe I explained me wrong, sorry for that. In a way you are right, joking to much may not work. More correctly I will say, don't take her too seriously. You need to have a conversation in which you spin around superifical topics and escalte to more serious stuff when you see the chance, with some jokes on the way. I think one of the biggest problems in dates is that they become interrogations and that is something you need to avoid. It is hard to let conversations flow, but you have to somehow make it flow it to a more sexual tone. (I'm not a pro on it, but that is what I do)

Post: #9

Its not a bad concept bandicoot, but the problem you might be having is calibration.

There is such a variation in personalities, the correct strategy for a date with a woman will be different each time.

The skill is in working her out, then pushing those buttons.

Some will like to joke around, some will need "serious" questions answered, some will like stories, some will like to escalate quickly, some will be put off by that.

The skill of game is calibrating yourself to her buttons.

Post: #10

(10-15-2018 10:35 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:  My solution to all of this:[/b][/u] I can start off the conversation for the first stage with normal/comfortable talk, but then need to lead and force the conversation to get more intimate/sexual asap and most importantly, absolutely stay away from basic topics and start asking more intimate questions that trigger and play around with her emotions. Even if she tries to stray away from those questions, continually lead her into them. I do admit that I need to do a better job of keeping frame, eye contact, etc as well. My kino is on point though and I generally do a good job with this.

Pretty much. Lead and control the conversation, make it light and positive, escalate verbally and physically. Krauser's basic date model recipe is worth looking at. In his Dagayme Mastery and Infinite he goes into much greater detail, though.

Post: #11

(10-16-2018 04:13 AM)OCZ Wrote:  I think one of the biggest problems in dates is that they become interrogations and that is something you need to avoid.

This has definitely happened to me on some dates here & there. I think this occurs more when a girl is trying to sniff you out for her checklist. Especially true if she's trying to lock you down for LTR purposes or as a potential future husband (ie. more of your chicks in their 30's and beyond). Late 20's pool probably has a bit more variation, but maybe this happens quite a bit in that pool too.

It's frustrating when it becomes an interrogation because poof...there goes a lot of the fun & spontaneity that should be part of an ideal first date.

Post: #12

Be attractive and higher value than her.

Post: #13

Your value needs to be higher than hers: like she’s the student and you the teacher. Find ways to like her more, ask questions that make her want to see herself as impressive, then validate what you like about her. Use your charm, open up her feelings, disarm. Being stoic and masculine usually gets them to immediately see me as the validator, and I just keep my Ryan Gosling inspired stone face, and say—ohh, right, uh—once in a while as she talks nervously and enthusiastically in her extra girly voice.

It’s all about going out with girls that you trump in value, which for me is most girls, but I still don’t go all out for girls I think I match up badly with. Some girls value things I don’t have, like say, huge muscles—I avoid those kind of girls. Don’t like em anyway... Quite lucky that my type also loves me.

Take out the girls that like you, and those that you think will appreciate your strengths, then just act like a man. Women are dumber, mentally weaker, less cultured, and emotionally a mess: show your superiority by being kind and stoic: act towards them almost like the way you would treat a child that admires you.

Most importantly, don’t expect her to make you feel better about yourself, don’t seek her approval, you’re the one that’s there to make her feel better, and you’re the one that’s going to improve her life. To go further with this, don’t seek people that make you feel good about yourself in any part of life, you go make others feel good, while letting your accomplishments validate yourself.

Post: #14

(10-18-2018 04:13 PM)tugofpeace Wrote:  Be attractive and higher value than her.

Some think this is the 'catch all' of game-- it's not. Smart girls who are looking for quality men and/or men of status, sure- but this doesn't apply for all girls.

Many girls will be intimidated or even threatened by you. Some will outright reject you (to get the 'upper hand') while others will bs you along, just hosing you for attention. They know you're better than them and will likely never commit to them in any capacity (outside of an easy lay).

Post: #15

^He never said more attractive than her, just attractive, which you need to be.

Higher value is a must since men are naturally more intelligent and emotionally strong, and since you’re taking her out, this is assumed.

Your self esteem has to be higher than hers, and you have to project that—that’s what we mean.

Post: #16

(10-16-2018 05:18 AM)Griprip08 Wrote:  One of the main things that have helped me is story-telling.

Try to ingrain into your social game that "questions suck". Stay away from them as much as possible

Your mentality should be "I'm a fun, charismatic guy full of life, and I have fun, exhilarating stories to prove it. I wonder if she can keep up".

Best of luck.

Completely disagree with this. It flies in the face of almost all advice on dates out there, and the main complaints I hear from women about guys on dates is that the guy just talks about himself the entire time.

Blackdragon, for example, recommends only asking her questions and basically not talking about yourself at all except for DHVs.

I dunno, I would be curious to see where you've been having success with barely asking the girl questions and dominating the conversation, and if you wouldn't actually do better if you asked her more questions.