Post: #1

Hi, Me again. . .after doing tons of research, on the forum and off on engineering, I decided that engineering isn't the path I want to take to the money and travel career plans I have in mind.

This time, I looked for a thread on IT on these forums and really haven't found anything.

So, I have a few questions about it.

What IT skills should I really learn to be more attractive to a wider spectrum of jobs? (both here in the U.S. and abroad)

What math should I brush up on (if any)?

What path leads to the most money?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an example of a job I saw in a coutry I was thinking of moving to one day... How would I go about learning the type of stuff listed here? Also, if I learned that type of stuff, would I still be marketable for a large pool of Jobs in the IT field?

5+ years of strong Linux Operating System knowledge (preferably RedHat and Solaris)
RedHat and/or VCS clustering experience
Understanding of core server concepts, Disks, CPU, Network interfaces and nominal routing trouble-Shooting
Possess ability to craft innovative technical solutions in a challenging environment
Strong Verbal/Written English Communication Skills (Excellent interpersonal/project management skills)
Experience in HFT (high frequency trading) and high availability systems is a major plus-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


While I was in college I worked in my schools computer lab with a bunch of IT heads and found the whole thing really interesting, the office had all kinds of harward stuff lying around, and I even got to take a part(and put together) stuff I don't remember the names of haha. Hell, I even got to see my College's server room! It was pretty awesome.

Anyway yeah, hopefully I should be able to find what I'm looking for and what I should start studying up on here.

P.S. if there IS an IT thread that I may have missed in my search, please link it to me!

Post: #2

Hey OP, I've been a consultant for about ten years now, it may not be what your interested in but the 'functional' side of It, think project managemebt, functional consulting, change management and training generally pay a lot more than the equivalent techie role.

The other plus about these kinds of roles is they are rarely outsourced and you won't be competing with as many skilled foreign workers who will work for much less money.

Obviously these roles require much greater communications, management and people facing skills than e.g programming type jobs. Worth looking into.

Post: #3

Its not what you know, its how well you can communicate with non IT is key

Post: #4

There's money to be made in IT.

If you want to go for the biggest "bang" for your buck jump into programming. I enjoyed programming a lot in my undergrad days, but it wasn't for me. Lots of solitary work, although a good time killer.

I got my start in IT working desktop support in college. The IT department on campus was one of the highest paid respectable job you could get (the best paying was a student "safety" patrol... eg narcs). I worked for 4 years fixing computers. Lots of fun, very technical, and I got to meet a lot of faculty and staff.

That job helped land me my first "real" full time job. Salary and benefits.

I've had a lifelong interest in computers. I see them as where all technology is going.

As for you, what's your interest with computers? If it's programming, then you can easily score a great paying job out of college. If you're more of the people person, desktop support (less paying) is a great way to enter the IT marketplace. You'll become a computer b!tch for the non techies (90% of the workflrce) but you will come to be highly appreciated.

You can even use your IT experience to "backdoor" yourself into different positions within a company.

Skills wise, what's your end game? We need more specifics. Bare minimum, some desktop support work. The most bang for your buck? Some programming experience as an intern or side hobby (open source software) is the dasiest way to break in.

Eventually I'd like to get into program management. There are differences between program, project, and product management. Make sure you know the differences if that's an area you're interested in!

Post: #5

(12-27-2013 10:42 AM)frenchie Wrote:  I got my start in IT working desktop support in college. The IT department on campus was one of the highest paid respectable job you could get (the best paying was a student "safety" patrol... eg narcs). I worked for 4 years fixing computers. Lots of fun, very technical, and I got to meet a lot of faculty and staff.

That job helped land me my first "real" full time job. Salary and benefits.

I've had a lifelong interest in computers. I see them as where all technology is going.

As for you, what's your interest with computers? If it's programming, then you can easily score a great paying job out of college. If you're more of the people person, desktop support (less paying) is a great way to enter the IT marketplace. You'll become a computer b!tch for the non techies (90% of the workflrce) but you will come to be highly appreciated.

You can even use your IT experience to "backdoor" yourself into different positions within a company.

Skills wise, what's your end game? We need more specifics. Bare minimum, some desktop support work. The most bang for your buck? Some programming experience as an intern or side hobby (open source software) is the dasiest way to break in.

Eventually I'd like to get into program management. There are differences between program, project, and product management. Make sure you know the differences if that's an area you're interested in!

My background is very sparse, Music Degree here, Took a couple programming classes back in the day, but really wasn't into the programming part of it, although I could porbably pick it up if I needed to.

I used to be able to build my own computers, but this was back when. . .motherboards were transitioning from SD Ram to DDR ram (not sure where they're at now, probably ddr-2 or ddr3? Ill have to look that up again)

but yeah I found that part pretty fun. I unfortunately didn't pursue computers or IT outside of school.

"I've had a lifelong interest in computers. I see them as where all technology is going.
"

As more and more time passes, the more I share this sentiment, Ive gotten pretty intersted in "Cyberpunk" type stuff, so technology compters etc are all increasingly right up my alley

Well the end game is something like the job description I posted, or working on servers in those awesome server rooms. . .yeah I know it's still kind of vague, but that's only because I don't really know what skills/options correspond to what, type of job yet haha. I've been looking stuff up and I have been seeing an emphasis in Unix/Linux around here and there.

Also, I don't want to spend time learning something, and then it be obsolete in the IT world.

(12-27-2013 03:12 AM)192 Wrote:  Hey OP, I've been a consultant for about ten years now, it may not be what your interested in but the 'functional' side of It, think project managemebt, functional consulting, change management and training generally pay a lot more than the equivalent techie role.

The other plus about these kinds of roles is they are rarely outsourced and you won't be competing with as many skilled foreign workers who will work for much less money.

Obviously these roles require much greater communications, management and people facing skills than e.g programming type jobs. Worth looking into.

Yeah I saw the project manager thread on the forums, LOTS of good info there, I'm going to use that in the future. . .It's going to be a while before I can go that route though, but I plan to go that route eventually.

Post: #6

(12-27-2013 04:23 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 10:42 AM)frenchie Wrote:  I got my start in IT working desktop support in college. The IT department on campus was one of the highest paid respectable job you could get (the best paying was a student "safety" patrol... eg narcs). I worked for 4 years fixing computers. Lots of fun, very technical, and I got to meet a lot of faculty and staff.

That job helped land me my first "real" full time job. Salary and benefits.

I've had a lifelong interest in computers. I see them as where all technology is going.

As for you, what's your interest with computers? If it's programming, then you can easily score a great paying job out of college. If you're more of the people person, desktop support (less paying) is a great way to enter the IT marketplace. You'll become a computer b!tch for the non techies (90% of the workflrce) but you will come to be highly appreciated.

You can even use your IT experience to "backdoor" yourself into different positions within a company.

Skills wise, what's your end game? We need more specifics. Bare minimum, some desktop support work. The most bang for your buck? Some programming experience as an intern or side hobby (open source software) is the dasiest way to break in.

Eventually I'd like to get into program management. There are differences between program, project, and product management. Make sure you know the differences if that's an area you're interested in!

My background is very sparse, Music Degree here, Took a couple programming classes back in the day, but really wasn't into the programming part of it, although I could porbably pick it up if I needed to.

I used to be able to build my own computers, but this was back when. . .motherboards were transitioning from SD Ram to DDR ram (not sure where they're at now, probably ddr-2 or ddr3? Ill have to look that up again)

but yeah I found that part pretty fun. I unfortunately didn't pursue computers or IT outside of school.

"I've had a lifelong interest in computers. I see them as where all technology is going.
"

As more and more time passes, the more I share this sentiment, Ive gotten pretty intersted in "Cyberpunk" type stuff, so technology compters etc are all increasingly right up my alley

Well the end game is something like the job description I posted, or working on servers in those awesome server rooms. . .yeah I know it's still kind of vague, but that's only because I don't really know what skills/options correspond to what, type of job yet haha. I've been looking stuff up and I have been seeing an emphasis in Unix/Linux around here and there.

Also, I don't want to spend time learning something, and then it be obsolete in the IT world.

Well, I hate to be honest but you will continuously be learning if you work with technology So, at best you better enjoy learning new things.

As for that job posting, the only thing you should become familiar with is 'nix and any type of its flavors.

5+ years of strong Linux Operating System knowledge (preferably RedHat and Solaris)
RedHat and/or VCS clustering experience
Understanding of core server concepts, Disks, CPU, Network interfaces and nominal routing trouble-Shooting
Possess ability to craft innovative technical solutions in a challenging environment
Strong Verbal/Written English Communication Skills (Excellent interpersonal/project management skills)
Experience in HFT (high frequency trading) and high availability systems is a major plus-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That 5+ years of linux OS system knowledge is BS. You need to understand what linux is (a kernel) and how it expands from there.

You can learn this a couple of ways. I took a summer and tried to install Linux onto my computer. I picked Gentoo and built a custom kernel with all of the special bells and whistles. I got really comfortable in a command line as well. This is a good way to jump in the deep end. Read some how tos and see where you end up.

Clustering is its own beast of which I am not familiar with, but I'm assuming it is using multiple resources to increase processing power. The understanding of core server concepts and the like is just a matter of you understanding how hardware functions in a machine. I'd say if you have a general idea of how to slot a computer together you should be fine.

Sounds like a server admin job.

Post: #7

As frenchie pointed out, it all depends on what your interests are.

(12-27-2013 04:23 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  Well the end game is something like the job description I posted, or working on servers in those awesome server rooms. . .yeah I know it's still kind of vague, but that's only because I don't really know what skills/options correspond to what, type of job yet haha. I've been looking stuff up and I have been seeing an emphasis in Unix/Linux around here and there.

Going on the job description you posted, and your above comment, it looks like you are potentially interested in Server Administration related stuff. So I would suggest you look in to jobs with titles like Dev Ops Engineer, Infrastructure Engineer, Scalability Engineer or just the old fashioned Server Administrator. All the new fashionable titles essentially mean the same thing, you are expected to make sure the infrastructure is running properly, is secure and is scalable (both in terms of hardware/software optimization but not application optimization).

A deep understanding of working with *nix OS would greatly help, but this has to go above and beyond of being able to just use the command line for basic tasks. That being said, if your affinity or experience is more with Windows there are similar roles/jobs in that domain as well, but not as many compared to *nix.

In terms of money, they are well paid but only in the upper levels so beware of that. Entry level people in such roles don't really rake in that much $$. But once you have a few years experience then your value will go up very easily.

(12-27-2013 04:23 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  Also, I don't want to spend time learning something, and then it be obsolete in the IT world.

There are very few things that go obsolete in IT per se, yes things keep changing but core concepts don't go obsolete just the means and their implementations change over time.

Ultimately it all depends on what you like, and what your end goals are. Below is a general overview with different types of roles and specializations and how they stack up, take with a grain of salt since it is not meant to be definitive or the end all perspective:

Development/Programming - Easiest to get in with lower entry requirements a lot of times if you can nail down basics, relatively easy to become "good" at, money is decent even at starting levels, with experience $$ increases steadily and can get to points where you could be swimming in it (obviously depending on how good you are and your skill set)

Sys Admin/Ops - Higher entry requirements, experience is a must (after all no one is going to hire a guy who says he can manage their critical infrastructure on potential and ability to learn), money is not great at entry levels but once you have some years of experience it gets very good

Project/Product/Program Management - Again experience is more important, but getting in isn't as hard if you can convince people that you are good for a role, money is pretty alright as you move up the ranks but in most cases the above two will always trump unless you are a co-founder/visionary behind the product, another drawback is that you would be limited to only service/agency related settings in the beginning, since new more technical companies (think startups etc) don't even have such roles until they are already big and have a well established product

Technical Support - Bare minimum entry requirements, easy to get in to so might be an option to get in to the field, money isn't great, but with experience you could move up to decent money once you are Support Manager/Supervisor etc, potential for such roles and functions being outsourced are very high

Hope that helps!

Post: #8

Most programmers are being outsourced from China, or India . I've been in IT for 15 years, now in specialized field, but lucky enough to work remotely. In my opinion, its a dying field, most companies want to maximize profits, and prefer to outsource their developers. For every 3 or 4 in house programmers, an IT dept will have 10 Indians working overseas. Pretty sad actually.

I would focus on IT project management, or Business Analyst type jobs.

Post: #9

(12-27-2013 04:54 PM)frenchie Wrote:  5+ years of strong Linux Operating System knowledge (preferably RedHat and Solaris)
RedHat and/or VCS clustering experience
Understanding of core server concepts, Disks, CPU, Network interfaces and nominal routing trouble-Shooting
Possess ability to craft innovative technical solutions in a challenging environment
Strong Verbal/Written English Communication Skills (Excellent interpersonal/project management skills)
Experience in HFT (high frequency trading) and high availability systems is a major plus-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That 5+ years of linux OS system knowledge is BS. You need to understand what linux is (a kernel) and how it expands from there.

You can learn this a couple of ways. I took a summer and tried to install Linux onto my computer. I picked Gentoo and built a custom kernel with all of the special bells and whistles. I got really comfortable in a command line as well. This is a good way to jump in the deep end. Read some how tos and see where you end up.

Clustering is its own beast of which I am not familiar with, but I'm assuming it is using multiple resources to increase processing power. The understanding of core server concepts and the like is just a matter of you understanding how hardware functions in a machine. I'd say if you have a general idea of how to slot a computer together you should be fine.

Sounds like a server admin job.

AWESOME! That's what I want to go into! Server admin stuff, (I Just didn't know what it was called haha!) Thanks for that piece of info! And yeah, I don't mind learning new things, that's life I probably worded that the wrong way. heh.


Ill start looking into linux now! Is there anything else I should be looking to learn for Server admin type positions?

Post: #10

Here is a broken down list of areas in IT and what you would be supporting.

Help Desk-Enterprise:
Laptops, Desktops, Printers, Phones
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA A+

Server Support:
Microsoft, Linux, Unix, VMware, Clustering, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
MSCE
RedHat

Networking:
Cisco, Dell, Switches, Routers, Fiber, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
CCNA

Storage:
SAN, NAS, DAS
Recommended Certification:
SNIA


These certifications are entry level. Unless you have someone who can get you a job, you will need these certifications to prove your competence in that particular area.

Post: #11

(01-06-2014 07:16 AM)Moreless Wrote:  Here is a broken down list of areas in IT and what you would be supporting.

Help Desk-Enterprise:
Laptops, Desktops, Printers, Phones
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA A+

Server Support:
Microsoft, Linux, Unix, VMware, Clustering, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
MSCE
RedHat

Networking:
Cisco, Dell, Switches, Routers, Fiber, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
CCNA

Storage:
SAN, NAS, DAS
Recommended Certification:
SNIA


These certifications are entry level. Unless you have someone who can get you a job, you will need these certifications to prove your competence in that particular area.

Is there demand for the Comptia certifications in the US? I've never seen any job posting in Europe asking for A+/N+/S+, they always wanted MCSE/CCNA with more and more asking for virtualisation certs (VCP etc) even when the job/pay looked shitty.

Post: #12

(01-07-2014 07:49 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 07:16 AM)Moreless Wrote:  Here is a broken down list of areas in IT and what you would be supporting.

Help Desk-Enterprise:
Laptops, Desktops, Printers, Phones
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA A+

Server Support:
Microsoft, Linux, Unix, VMware, Clustering, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
MSCE
RedHat

Networking:
Cisco, Dell, Switches, Routers, Fiber, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
CCNA

Storage:
SAN, NAS, DAS
Recommended Certification:
SNIA


These certifications are entry level. Unless you have someone who can get you a job, you will need these certifications to prove your competence in that particular area.

Is there demand for the Comptia certifications in the US? I've never seen any job posting in Europe asking for A+/N+/S+, they always wanted MCSE/CCNA with more and more asking for virtualisation certs (VCP etc) even when the job/pay looked shitty.

The certs are stupid easy to get. I'd only get them if my work required it and if i didn't have any side experience.

If you have the side experience then that will speak for itself. If you don't have any desktop support experience then they'll be required.

Just say you're the guy everyone in your family goes to for computer help. Tell stories like that.

Post: #13

Expertise in Cryptography/security programming will see you pulling in 6 figures at Cap Gemini or similar. Like with any consulting though you need to be ready to rack up the hours, though not as bad as management consulting.

Post: #14

Expertise in Cryptography will see you pulling in 6 figures at Cap Gemini or similar. Like with any consulting though you need to be ready to track up the hours, though not as bad as management consulting.

Post: #15

(01-07-2014 08:45 AM)Vicious Wrote:  Expertise in Cryptography will see you pulling in 6 figures at Cap Gemini or similar. Like with any consulting though you need to be ready to track up the hours, though not as bad as management consulting.

Is this an area in demand? I did the CISSP course/exam a few years back which had a section on cryptography but i've not seen many job postings asking for it.

Post: #16

The area is mostly covered by consultant firms since few companies need a resident Cryptography specialist. You should probably go straight to Accenture, Atos, Deloitte, E&Y etc

Post: #17

(01-07-2014 08:05 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 07:49 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 07:16 AM)Moreless Wrote:  Here is a broken down list of areas in IT and what you would be supporting.

Help Desk-Enterprise:
Laptops, Desktops, Printers, Phones
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA A+

Server Support:
Microsoft, Linux, Unix, VMware, Clustering, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
MSCE
RedHat

Networking:
Cisco, Dell, Switches, Routers, Fiber, etc
Recommended Certification:
CompTIA Network+
CompTIA Security+
CCNA

Storage:
SAN, NAS, DAS
Recommended Certification:
SNIA


These certifications are entry level. Unless you have someone who can get you a job, you will need these certifications to prove your competence in that particular area.

Is there demand for the Comptia certifications in the US? I've never seen any job posting in Europe asking for A+/N+/S+, they always wanted MCSE/CCNA with more and more asking for virtualisation certs (VCP etc) even when the job/pay looked shitty.

The certs are stupid easy to get. I'd only get them if my work required it and if i didn't have any side experience.

If you have the side experience then that will speak for itself. If you don't have any desktop support experience then they'll be required.

Just say you're the guy everyone in your family goes to for computer help. Tell stories like that.

I don't think anyone is going to higher the OP for Linux administration when he fixes his mom and dads Windows machines, unless nepotism or friends are involved.

frenchie, these CompTIA certs are easy if you work on computers regularly. Your average person could not pass an A+ without studying and a little hands on experiance.

The CompTIA certs are cheap (entry level) certs. The OP can study for one and take the test. If he enjoys the material he can get more difficult certs. If he hates it, at least he's only out $50 to $300.

Brisey is right about MSCE and CCNA being the main certs that are required and/or recommended. However, without prior knowledge and experience this could be difficult to obtain without some serious brain dumps. Try getting through an interview and then holding the job past 3 months only knowing what you know from a brain dump.

Post: #18

I've been a programmer for 15 years now. There's still plenty of demand out there.

It's worth going down the networking specialist route though. Companies can outsource programming, but they can't move all their cabling to India.

Post: #19

Stay well away from helpdesk positions unless you're using it for a 'foot in the door' - easily outsourced, mundane work and generally unrewarding for the amount of work you put in as opposed to other areas in a business. For example a Relationship Manager that moved out the call center, reading scripted text to customers were earning £3K more than me - some of the most unintelligent fucks I've ever come across. The only positive of working on the helpdesk is networking, you make lots of upper-class connections and have opportunity to set up so many bangs through your exposure to the business - I was working for a massive bank though.

If you're looking to up your game, check out http://www.bcs.org/

Post: #20

Question about outsourcing to India...

Do you guys feel that outsourcing is accelerating or has outsourcing hit its zenith? I know the late 90s saw an explosion in outsourcing, but where are we now? Will this increase further or has it leveled off?

Post: #21

(01-08-2014 03:00 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Question about outsourcing to India...

Do you guys feel that outsourcing is accelerating or has outsourcing hit its zenith? I know the late 90s saw an explosion in outsourcing, but where are we now? Will this increase further or has it leveled off?

From my experiencing, a lot of the processes that get outsourced are jobs that could easily be automated but no one wants to invest in the money to develop and program.

You get what you pay for. There may have been a time when out sourcing was awesome and the talent you would bring on is awesome. Nowadays, the talent is expecting to be paid fairly whereas the small worker drones are the ones doing the push button click here click there type of work. On paper outsourcing looks great, but at the end of the day language barriers, long email turn around times, and budget over runs are the norm. A lot of people have very little patience for indian names and broken english. Not to mention having to do a 6am conference call to sync the times up with India.

I think we're seeing a turn around in reshoring those jobs lost to outsourcing. Our standard of living has dropped and now you can pay a modest premium for the perk of having someone in or near your time zone and speak perfect english. It'll cost more, but you avoid the hidden costs of having to train someone who lives halfway around the world.

I love my indian vendors, but sometimes they do some of the dumbest things. Workers in America have the same problems, but at least there isn't a language and time barrier.