Post: #1

I won't talk so much about how good looking the girls are, as tastes differ. My personal view is that there are lots of slim sexy bodies but faces are not very pretty. The girls dress sexy and feminine as well.

The nightlife is a lot of fun and interesting and goes until early morning almost every night of the week, even Sunday, in at least 1 or 2 clubs. I partied with a huge crowd at a club till 6 in the morning the Sunday I got here.

The problem with the Ukraine is that they seem to have very little interest in foreigners. You can forget about anyone being impressed that you're American or Western European. In the clubs I girls would flash me smiles but would lose all interest the moment I opened my mouth and spoke English. Even girls who spoke decent English lost interest when they found out I was a foreigner. I had 3 girls on separate occasions hit on me in Ukrainian - when I responded in English, the encounter was over. This even happened with a group of guys. They saw me chatting with a hot girl for about 10 minutes, one of the few who spoke decent English, and when she went to speak to her friends they came over to me with big smiles. The moment I spoke English to them they simply stopped talking to me and looked away. It was surreal. I'm a young guy, by the way, so this has nothing to do with age.

It's incredibly frustrating, because the girls seem so easy and available and receptive, but are in fact miles out of reach. The girls are certainly less bitchy than the USA, but not nearly as sweet as some might think.

I'm getting the strong impression that Ukraine is a very strong insider/outsider society, and that the only girls really into the foreigners are the prostitutes (who, by the way, are not nearly as plentiful as people think). I have only been here 4 days, and partied 3 times, so I might be completely wrong about this. It might simply be the places I went, although I did pick places that were described on the net as foreigner friendly. There might well be places I have yet to discover that are full girls who are willing to hook up with foreigners.

I don't want to give the impression that everyone is rude. There are some fantastic and friendly people in the Ukraine. But the country just seems buried deep in a narcissistic slumber from which it has yet to awaken. They are into themselves, and only themselves.

Post: #2

Now you guys will understand why I cancelled my trip to Ukraine this summer. I got the exact same vibe from these girls when I was doing my pre-travel research, field studies and prep work.

Hell, I gor a better reception from white girls in North Dakota and Minneapolis!

Mixx

Post: #3

Which city are you in?

Post: #4

Well scratch Ukraine of my list.....

Post: #5

(06-16-2011 09:16 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  Which city are you in?

I'm in Kiev, the capital. I'm going out tonight again and probably through the weekend. If I don't find anything new I'm on a train to Krakow or Berlin by Sunday (only about 10 hours away).

The girls are pretty here but no better than many other places, so if Ukraine just doesn't work out, it's not a great loss. There are tons of other places.

Post: #6

I'll be hitting Odessa next week. Will see how things go. I know some basic Russian. So we'll see if that changes anything (in many countries it does).

Post: #7

(06-16-2011 09:49 AM)Entropy4 Wrote:  I know some basic Russian. So we'll see if that changes anything (in many countries it does).

Don't bet on it. They are PROUD to NOT speak Russian or pretend they don't. I learned basic Russian and not once dod I get a smile for my efforts.

Mixx

Post: #8

why don't you try a different city in the Ukraine? Maybe people in the capital are jaded.

Post: #9

You need Russian... simple.

If you plan on visiting any of the former soviet countries you actually need to get up of your ass and make a effort learning the local language! I found women in the country very receptive when you speak even at a basic level. Russian isn't as hard as you think.. use pimsleur.

Learning Russian unlocks the door to pussy heaven... whether it's mother Russia, the Caucasus's, central Asia or Eastern Europe. The best looking women on the planet speak it. Plus, once you have the Slavic roots, most other EE languages are easy to pick up!

Post: #10

I am extremely schocked at Nomads post. I did get off my ass and learned very decent advanced basic Russian. Like I said, girls were very proud to say they only speak Ukrainian, and just shrugged their shoulders at Russian as if losing interest.

Mixx

Post: #11

(06-16-2011 10:38 AM)naughtynomad Wrote:  You need Russian... simple.

If you plan on visiting any of the former soviet countries you actually need to get up of your ass and make a effort learning the local language! I found women in the country very receptive when you speak even at a basic level. Russian isn't as hard as you think.. use pimsleur.

Learning Russian unlocks the door to pussy heaven... whether it's mother Russia, the Caucasus's, central Asia or Eastern Europe. The best looking women on the planet speak it. Plus, once you have the Slavic roots, most other EE languages are easy to pick up!

It wasn't just the issue of not knowing the language, several girls spoke English reasonably well. They lost interest once they found out I was a foreigner.

One girl who I spoke to for ten minutes later saw me near the dance floor talking to some Ukrainian guys with my friend, whose roots are from the Ukraine and who speaks it very basically, and came over and started hitting on me again. I introduced her to my friend, and when she discovered that he too was an American and his Ukrainian was quite basic, lost interest in me once again.

It isn't just a language thing, it's a social thing. I think the only way a foreigner can do good here is if he has a circle of Ukrainian friends.

I just did a search on this forum and found my hunches amply confirmed. Check out the posts by oldnemesis in particular. He speaks fluent Ukrainian and is Russian and he says the only way to get laid in the Ukraine is through social circle, and that people don't do cold approaches in clubs and don't go to clubs to hook up. That explains a lot. In light of that, I'm actually impressed with how well I did with the girls.

In non-Western countries social proof is key, I am beginning to realize. This is true at least with the very cute girls. Uglier girls might think differently.

Post: #12

(06-16-2011 10:36 AM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  why don't you try a different city in the Ukraine? Maybe people in the capital are jaded.

I don't need them to be impressed with me because I'm a Westerner. In fact that turns me off. I need them merely to be open to me as a human being, but they are not. I've done very well in cities that are super-jaded with foreigners and where being a Westerners brings with it zero cachet, like Bangkok, but Kiev is not just jaded, jaded I can handle, it's into itself.

Post: #13

Reminds me of a street approach I did the other day in Albania. I stopped a girl and starting chatting in English and she asked me straight away if I was I Albanian and when I said no she shrugged her shoulders and said 'whats the point'.

Post: #14

@georgec- Have you tried daygame?

Post: #15

Georgec, thanks for your post. I'm in Poland now and am thinking of going to Ukraine next. My buddy got laid there during a short trip, so hang in there.

Maybe you could try some BS -- tell the women you are doing a project in Ukraine that will take six months to complete? Someone else here said that he had success telling girls in EE that he was staying in town for six months.

Also, maybe consider going to the Black Sea coast? It's supposed to be good during the Summer. I've noticed a lot of the mail order bride websites feature girls from the Black Sea coast of Ukraine (Odessa, Crimea, Mariupol). Maybe someone can confirm this, but I heard that Russian is spoken more in these cities than Ukrainian, so I guess the people are more ethnically Russian here. It might be different than Kiev.

Post: #16

It looks like you're hoping that girls are wowed by your foreign status. You've mentioned this both here and on my blog. Many guys have gone down the road to failure with this strategy.

If this is not your strategy, please share exactly what game you're using. Where are you approaching? How many approaches a night? Day or night game? What is the attractiveness of your targets? Exactly how many interactions have ended solely because a girl found out you were a foreigner?

Post: #17

I think Roosh may have a point.

George -

Where are you based in the USA?

Do you do well there? Or bog?

Great insight so far. Also, keep in mind, you haven't really been there that long.

So don't give up hope.

"the only way to get laid in the Ukraine is through social circle"

It is kind of funny how many of these place threads end with this conclusion.

Post: #18

(06-16-2011 12:32 PM)Roosh Wrote:  It looks like you're hoping that girls are wowed by your foreign status. You've mentioned this both here and on my blog. Many guys have gone down the road to failure with this strategy.

If this is not your strategy, please share exactly what game you're using. Where are you approaching? How many approaches a night? Day or night game? What is the attractiveness of your targets? Exactly how many interactions have ended solely because a girl found out you were a foreigner?

I admit I expected Ukrainian girls to be impressed by my foreigner status, as I heard that from Ukrainian guys in London, but I never thought that would be sufficient and I wasn't relying on that as my sole strategy. Expecting it, yes, but certainly not relying on it.

I've only been to a few places in the city, so it can simply be a matter of the venues. I don't know for sure yet. I found out the places I went to are frequented by professional upper class types, so that might have something to do with it.

I'm approaching in clubs. I'm approaching 7's and 8's. My strategy is merely to dress well and act with confidence throughout the encounter (lead, don't tolerate disrespect, etc), which has always worked for me. About 4 of the girls I approached, say, last night, I did so only after eye contact and smiles, and it was pretty obvious they were very into me. One girl flashed me a huge smiles several times while I was on the dance floor and moved in my direction, I grabbed her hand and started dancing with her, fairly close. She was totally into it, then after a few minutes of this she leans in and starts talking to me in Ukrainian, I respond in English. She leaves immediately. Another three girls I approached after eye contact and smiles, with clear interest expressed. Spoke in English, they lost interest.

I approached another 3 girls who showed me no interest at all, 2 simply said they spoke no English and walked away, and one I spoke to for about 10 minutes. She was actually kind of into me, but when I told her I did not live in Kiev, she walked away to rejoin her friends. She was the girl who later returned to me when she thought I had Kievian friends, and left again when she saw I did not.

Oh, another girls I danced with a bit, she was into it, smiles and starts talking to me low in Ukrainian, I respond in English, she says she just wants to dance and moves away.

2 other girls hit on me in Ukrainian, walked away when they heard English.

That's about 9 girls in about 6 hours. My buddy had his own encounters during the night, but they went nowhere.

Not quite sure what to make of all this, but that's how it's been going for me. I get a ton of attention from the girls, more than I do in almost any other city, but it goes nowhere.

Post: #19

(06-16-2011 12:22 PM)The Duke Wrote:  Georgec, thanks for your post. I'm in Poland now and am thinking of going to Ukraine next. My buddy got laid there during a short trip, so hang in there.

Maybe you could try some BS -- tell the women you are doing a project in Ukraine that will take six months to complete? Someone else here said that he had success telling girls in EE that he was staying in town for six months.

Also, maybe consider going to the Black Sea coast? It's supposed to be good during the Summer. I've noticed a lot of the mail order bride websites feature girls from the Black Sea coast of Ukraine (Odessa, Crimea, Mariupol). Maybe someone can confirm this, but I heard that Russian is spoken more in these cities than Ukrainian, so I guess the people are more ethnically Russian here. It might be different than Kiev.

I'm gonna give the city a few more days - maybe I just haven't found the right venues. People are telling me that Odessa and similar places are dead until July.

I have no doubt it's possible to get laid here, it's just much more effort than I'm used to, and the whole point of traveling somewhere to party is that it's easier or better. It doesn't seem worth it, because I don't think these girls are prettier than Poland, Russia, or other spots in Eastern Europe, or big cities in the West. We'll see how things develop.

Post: #20

(06-16-2011 12:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I think Roosh may have a point.

George -

Where are you based in the USA?

Do you do well there? Or bog?

Great insight so far. Also, keep in mind, you haven't really been there that long.

So don't give up hope.

"the only way to get laid in the Ukraine is through social circle"

It is kind of funny how many of these place threads end with this conclusion.

I'm based out of New York City, and I do fairly well there. I regularly hook up with 7's without too much effort, and occasionally with 8s. I don't get the 9's and 10's, though.

I'm not giving up hope yet - sometimes it takes time to figure a place out. I wouldn't have come out here if I'd known, but now that I'm here, I'll put in some effort.

Sadly, outside the West, social circle just might be where its at. Even in Thailand social circle was huge, though it was still relatively easy to get some hot girls without it. But social circle was where all the really best girls were, and could not be got without it.

Post: #21

Yeah, I'm thinking of lying and saying I live in Kiev, and maybe avoiding talking. Late at night when the alcohol is flowing I've picked up girls with no talking in Bangkok and NYC in dance clubs. Smiles are exchanged, you move in and start dancing, an hour later you can be back at your place with no words exchanged. When I get into the taxis my English will be obvious, but maybe by then it will be too late. But it's not a cool situation to put up with. Rather be somewhere better.

Post: #22

If you decide to take the train to Poland, maybe stop in Lviv on the way. One guy on these forums seemed to like that city.

Post: #23

Two things:

1. Your sample size is a bit low. I think if you get to over 50 approaches things may change.

2. Your expectations were high. You thought it'd be better than NYC, which arguable has the highest quantity of hot girls in the world.

Post: #24

I can understand how frustrating it may be to spend all that $$$ and time to travel to Ukraine and receive a cold reception from local women. I pulled the plug on my trip to Ukraine when I noticed I was not getting any easier or more attractive pussy than I was in Miami or Colombia for a fraction of expenses. In just happy I was able to see the signs before pulling out my credit card

Mixx

Post: #25

(06-16-2011 01:58 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Two things:

1. Your sample size is a bit low. I think if you get to over 50 approaches things may change.

2. Your expectations were high. You thought it'd be better than NYC, which arguable has the highest quantity of hot girls in the world.

Agreed on both points. If things get better in the next few days, I'll be sure to post about it.