Post: #26

That said, I'm Asian and the Philippines is still ridiculously easy. Never seen anything like it.

Post: #27

(03-22-2014 07:34 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-22-2014 06:57 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  So did you get laid?

Please for the love of god and USA say yes!!

I told you boys, I tried to fail-- and couldn't.

I can offer an official "yes": a paranoid, late-middle aged, charmless man can indeed get laid in the Phils.

Already planning next trip.

Post: #28

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PART 2-- The Hatred of The Pedaltrike Drivers

I recommend staying clear of the Manila Ermita Tune hotel, even though it was the location of one of my most wonderful evenings with a girl. The Manila Makati Tune (There are a total of two Tunes hotels I think in Manila) has gotten fairly good reviews elsewhere here and is a different story.

The first day I was at the Tune hotel and walked out the front door within 30 seconds an overbearing young man was touting sunglasses a bit too close for comfort, and later I saw people who were very short but not dwarves, they were in some way stunted,their bodies not quite symmetrical. They made exaggerated gestures intended to be comic to get my attention and I presume cadge some dough from me. I was in third-world-for-the-first-time poverty overload and just avoided eye-contact . I felt exhausted. They quickly quieted down, and I think they felt sorry for me.

Manila's urban poverty seemed more desperate then the rural poverty I saw in the southern agricultural center Cagayan De Oro-- in a city if you don't have money there's no other way to get food, in an agricultural area there are many more ways to get at the depots of harvest to avoid the desperation of hunger.

I also stayed in a nicer, gated condo complex in the south of Manila; there there was more economic activity there and the trike drivers didn't look so desperate.

The Tune area street had standard Phils city-poor landscape: cluttered, grimy poverty, a stndard collection of Western Union/Money Changer shops, convenience stores, dark, sloppily shuttered storefronts where unknowable things occur, and the deformed and sometimes strangely enthusiastic beggars and touts.

The scene that got to me the most was walking past a pedaltrike parked by the side of the street early in the morning.



This is a photo linked from someone else's site, not what I saw.
The trike had a cushioned, vinyl covered seat that served as a bed for a sleeping boy about 7 or 8 years old. It was warm and he slept without any covering.

The driver, who I'm assuming was his father, was more uncomfortably lying somehow curled up down on the floorboards of the pedaltrike.

They were living on a bicycle.

There is a Jollibees toward the beach, about three desperate sprints away.
I did not feel comfortable walking in the area. When I walked the three blocks to the Jollibees ( sort of a McDonalds of fried chicken ) I saw idle drivers in the park across from the beach looking hungrily at me, at my $100 LL Bean anti-mosquito shirt and the other value I probably had in my pockets. I was attracting more attention than I wanted from a "park" full of a couple dozen people that looked like they seldom left there.
I was the most conspicuous and probably only visible tourist.

At Jollibees I bought a Zombie Apocalypse sized bucket of chicken as I had another day to go in the Tune and really did not want to come out again.

Something that was a real marker of of when you were in a poor area were the pedaltrike graveyards. I guess the pedaltrikes go through a life cycle, and there are no pedaltrike funeral homes to erase the last remains.

When in a Manila taxi going to pick up a girl who did not want to come over unaccompanied, in a small traffic triangle in an intersection near the airport, i saw an aggregation of drivers I guess on their off hours, congregating. But the number of dead and dying abandoned pedaltrikes in the triangle was about triple the number of living drivers.

They sat in various stages of progressive cannibalization, older rusted ones down to the bare frame.

When I saw the pedaltrike driver and his kid, I still felt a pang of sorrow for myself-- He had lived more fully in a critical way: He had a child. NO matter how miserable their lives, I was a self-congratulatory "smart guy" , too clever to be pulled into the marriage-frivorce-child support-exhaustion treadmill in the USA.

I used to feel smart. But now I felt dumb.

Post: #29

Sounds like the genesis of a novel.

It appears something has drawn you. Am I misreading this?

Post: #30

As much as I'm enjoying this do you think there's any chance of you telling the story of what actually went down there?

Post: #31

Seems like a great opportunity to drop this for the first time:



p.s. IKE, what were your (approximate) living costs and did you live low-key, comfortably or luxuriously while there?

Post: #32

(03-23-2014 09:06 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  As much as I'm enjoying this do you think there's any chance of you telling the story of what actually went down there?

1. Went to Philippines.
2. ?
3. Bang!

Post: #33

(03-23-2014 09:06 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  As much as I'm enjoying this do you think there's any chance of you telling the story of what actually went down there?

Jesus you Mediterranean dudes are so blunt. ;-)
You want the bottom line bill, like people ask from a mechanic's shop?

here's the chick who's going to a top fertility doc for me because we're planning on trying to have a kid in three months--in the Phils, NOT in Americuntville.
I try not to exhaust myself whacking while I work the three months to save up. She even has almost perfect, finely shaped feet.

35 years younger than me. In the Philippines the cost of a failed relationship is far lower, if we can't get along I just send her $200 a month and wish her well and visit the kid as much as I can.

Limited time posting.

Post: #34

(03-23-2014 06:59 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  Sounds like the genesis of a novel.

It appears something has drawn you. Am I misreading this?

You mean to the Philippines? Yes, college in Hawaii acquainted me with the fact that Filipinas actually want to hang on to a good man more than they want to "prove they're right" by breaking up at the drop of a hat.

Going to the Phils bowled me over.... there's a strong Polynesian, don't-give-a-fuck let's have sex vibe that people don't discuss.. they are very in the here and now, much different than Muslim Indonesia where a girl wrote me "Oh you want to have children so you have to start saving now.."

Filipinas don't really ditch you, they just space on you without the venom of an Americunt leaving you.

Post: #35

(03-23-2014 10:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Seems like a great opportunity to drop this for the first time:



p.s. IKE, what were your (approximate) living costs and did you live low-key, comfortably or luxuriously while there?

I'll try to be brief but inclusive:

1) FLight RT on Japan air lines Sacramento->LAX->Narita->Manila and the same in reverse was about 1150 USD and I LOVED flying on REAL JAL flights ( not code share with the haggard stews of AA) . Exquisite stews, maintenance top notch ( why Toyota is Toyota)
However, recent flight checks show flights ABOUT 300 MORE
.

2) I tried for hotels in about the 50-60 per night ranges, this worked if I picked carefully. The Tune Ermita was disgusting for that, the Marco Polo in Cebu was gorgeous. In CDO the all-in-one resort I mentioned was about 50, very nice.
Near the airport I got screwed a few nights, the Remington at 80/ night.

3) I mainly ate from convenience stores to avoid getting sick: mostly Nuts, yogurt drinks, cup-a-noodles, peanut butter, fruit juice, and protein powder that I brought with a shaker bottle.
I totally avoided street food, my vacation was only 16 days and I didn't have time for three days of diarreah.

4) I spent a lot, probably almost 80 dollars for tons of cell use. This was because I didn't know the tricks of signing up for specials ( periods of unlimited use for flat rates) on Globe which I will share in another post.

Total cost probably like $4000-$4500 for the whole trip.

To tell the truth, jet lag and climate change and some minor medical problems kept me pretty tired most of the trip.

I'll go into this more in EPISODE #3: All The Shit That Went Wrong!!

Post: #36

(03-24-2014 07:23 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Jesus you Mediterranean dudes are so blunt. ;-)

Post: #37

(03-21-2014 09:38 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Another undisciplined, stream of semi-consciousness travelogue by IKE.
I returned from the Philippines several days ago.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PART 1--Life is Cheap in the Orient. Literally.

"Life is cheap in the Orient." This quote came to mind as I staggered around Manila in early 2014. I tended to think of it as a racist kind of statement before, indicating insensitivity to human needs among the people of Asia....

Life is cheaper in the Orient. And that's good from some angles.

( The quote Life is cheap in the orient was as best I could find attributed to General William Westmoreland. After he said it he stopped the interview as the thought is sounded crass, but when explaining himself he used the same words again. )

The though was LITERALLY true during World War Two because, for the Japanese at least - the war was a battle of the races.

In America, with our much greater European focus and ties from family history - and therefore on the Nazi Holocaust (Jewish genocide) - we forget, or never learned how cheap life used to be in the Orient.

Not only did Mao kill many more of his own nation's people than Germany or the Soviets did, but the Japanese preceded and exceeded the Chinese in their calculated horror.

While the allies lost to death in German prisoner of war (POW) camps over 1%, in the pacific theater under Japanese control it was around 30%. One in three died there.

Why? Because the Japanese believed in the necessity or eliminating inferior races, ie, all of those not Japanese. Their cultural burden of xenophobia was turned into an imperialist, "civilizing" virtue under fascism.

This grim, horrifying Truth was etched into my mind for life at a post-Fall of Communism summer conference at the University of Colorado in the early 1990s.

One of our guests was the then current "Father of Parliament," ie, the longest serving MP (Member of Parliament) in the UK. He who was also a Royal Army veteran of the war in SE Asia (ie, Burma) against the Japanese.

My professor asked me to give him a ride in my car to the library so he could prepare to give a lecture. But because of his war experience, he would have nothing to do with the Japanese. NOTHING.

He said to me: "We liberated their POW labor camps. They worked our men to death there. They were proud of eliminating us and our allies from the colonies. They kept detailed, graphic records of the death they oversaw. The Japanese were PROUD of it." He would not accept a ride in a Japanese car.

I could not grasp the depth of his Righteous rage and rejection of the Japanese. I said I drove an American made Japanese car, a Mitsubishi Eclipse, co-owned by the American Dodge company. He would have nothing to do with anything Japanese.

I met him at our appointed time to give him a lift, and he was not there. Later, at the lecture, I learned that he'd walked to the library himself. He'd rather do that than ride in a Japanese car, made by a company that made fighter engines for the war during WWII - the war that inflicted genocidal death on his men, our allies, and British colonies.

His actions made me realize the Truth his actions bore quiet, steely testimony to: The Japanese were arguably MORE murderous than the German Nazis.

THINK ABOUT THAT, when you learn Japanese, and enjoy Japanese goods and culture. Think about this man who once liberated Japanese death camps during World War Two. Because the Truth is just so damn ugly that life was so cheap in the Orient, during the 20th century's racial wars.

And I believe that this Truth about what happened then is what General Westmoreland was referring to when he said "life is cheap in the Orient."

And finally, it was the cheapness of life in the Far East that led the American's to conclude that dropping the first atomic weapons on Japan would inflict fewer civilian losses (ie, hundreds of thousands) than physically invading Japan (ie, a million or more) would. Because human life is cheap there.

Post: #38

(03-24-2014 09:16 PM)Orson Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 09:38 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Another undisciplined, stream of semi-consciousness travelogue by IKE.
I returned from the Philippines several days ago.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PART 1--Life is Cheap in the Orient. Literally.

"Life is cheap in the Orient." This quote came to mind as I staggered around Manila in early 2014. I tended to think of it as a racist kind of statement before, indicating insensitivity to human needs among the people of Asia....

Life is cheaper in the Orient. And that's good from some angles.

( The quote Life is cheap in the orient was as best I could find attributed to General William Westmoreland. After he said it he stopped the interview as the thought is sounded crass, but when explaining himself he used the same words again. )

The though was LITERALLY true during World War Two because, for the Japanese at least - the war was a battle of the races.

In America, with our much greater European focus and ties from family history - and therefore on the Nazi Holocaust (Jewish genocide) - we forget, or never learned how cheap life used to be in the Orient.

Not only did Mao kill many more of his own nation's people than Germany or the Soviets did, but the Japanese preceded and exceeded the Chinese in their calculated horror.

While the allies lost to death in German prisoner of war (POW) camps over 1%, in the pacific theater under Japanese control it was around 30%. One in three died there.

Why? Because the Japanese believed in the necessity or eliminating inferior races, ie, all of those not Japanese. Their cultural burden of xenophobia was turned into an imperialist, "civilizing" virtue under fascism.

This grim, horrifying Truth was etched into my mind for life at a post-Fall of Communism summer conference at the University of Colorado in the early 1990s.

One of our guests was the then current "Father of Parliament," ie, the longest serving MP (Member of Parliament) in the UK. He who was also a Royal Army veteran of the war in SE Asia (ie, Burma) against the Japanese.

My professor asked me to give him a ride in my car to the library so he could prepare to give a lecture. (It was a good and reasonable request, since his vintage was 70-some years old.) But because of his war experience, he would have nothing to do with the Japanese. NOTHING.

He said to me: "We liberated their POW labor camps. They worked our men to death there. They were proud of eliminating us and our allies from the colonies. They kept detailed, graphic records of the death they oversaw. The Japanese were PROUD of it." He would not accept a ride in a Japanese car.

I could not grasp the depth of his Righteous rage and rejection of the Japanese. I said I drove an American made Japanese car, a Mitsubishi Eclipse, co-owned by the American Dodge company. He would have nothing to do with anything Japanese.

I met him at our appointed time to give him a lift, and he was not there. Later, at the lecture, I learned that he'd walked to the library himself. He'd rather do that than ride in a Japanese car, made by a company that made fighter engines for the war during WWII - the war that inflicted genocidal death on his men, our allies, and British colonies.

His actions made me realize the Truth his actions bore quiet, steely testimony to: The Japanese were arguably MORE murderous than the German Nazis.

THINK ABOUT THAT, when you learn Japanese, and enjoy Japanese goods and culture. Think about this man who once liberated Japanese death camps during World War Two. Because the Truth is just so damn ugly that life was so cheap in the Orient, during the 20th century's racial wars.

And I believe that this Truth about what happened then is what General Westmoreland was referring to when he said "life is cheap in the Orient."

And finally, it was the cheapness of life in the Far East that led the American's to conclude that dropping the first atomic weapons on Japan would inflict fewer civilian losses (ie, hundreds of thousands) than physically invading Japan (ie, a million or more) would. Because human life is cheap there.

Post: #39

^^ My beloved Japanese cars, I can't see myself driving anything else.

IKE, Great on point and raw as fuck datasheet, one of the best here.

Post: #40

PHONE TECH: APPENDIX A

Everyone told me Globe had the best internet. I bought an iPhone 5C on the advice of Manila experts who said I'd be using it all the time, fucking thing was buzzing with messages while I had girls in my hotel room and they were getting pissed.

--Right as I exited Manila Airport immigration there are little stands that sell micro SIMs so you can set up. They will install them for you, and if there is a little stand there and the guards can see them, they are legit.

--Never deal with anyone who talks to you first and has no uniform or obvious official sanction to be in the airport. For some reason the cops don't roust scammers and the like from the airport.

--Take out your USA SIM and put it in your neck passport pouch so you will have it and keep your phone number back in the USA.

-- Tell them you want unlimited internet for a week, it costs about 8 dollars.

--, and try to get the worker to set you up with some type of discount plan ( they have to dial into the system to set it up) so you have about 100 minutes lasting about three days. It will take about $2o aggregate of specials but girls really appreciate when you voice call them cause no locals do it because it's too expensive for them.

-- BE CAREFUL not to dial any American numbers in your contact list, I did it and it's like two dollars for the first minute so you waste your load when you make that mistake.

-- The cell company will send you brief text warning you when your unlimited plans for text, internet, or voice are running out. Always make sure you are on a plan for discounted use, otherwise you will eat through your credits really fast , I think a 20 minute call will cost something like six dollars if you haven't perviously gotten on a bulk plan.

-- How do you get on a bulk plan? dial
*143# and a menu will pop up on your phone screen

-That will give you ( on Globe vendor) a list of optional specials which you want to have working at all times. You respond to a menu that pops up on your phone screen by typing in a number in response. It gets easier after you do it a few times. You can get for example a few specials something like:

-100 texts to all cell phones ( Globe and otherwise) for which they deduct something like $5 from your credits. It will last maybe 3, maybe 5 days, the longer the duration, the more it costs.

-100 minutes voice calls to all cell phones. Again number of minutes and number of days validity affects cost.

-*** You HAVE TO have the credit loaded onto the phone BEFORE you request these specials or it fails silently and you don't know what's up.

--You can buy phone cards with 100, 300, 500 pesos at 7-11, cash only .
The clerks will help you load your phone.

--I tried to err on the side of getting too much load, because if you want to text a girl at three in the morning and you're out of load you have to walk around on the grimy streets looking for a open convenience store.

All chicks are perpetually out of load, if they have Globe you can send them load and they will like all teenage-> 22 yo girls happily text you about nothing as much as you like.

-- You can send another Globe user load, which is deducted from YOUR existing load ( add credit to her phone so she can text you back) by texting to a phone number comprised of the digit "2" + her phone number the following:

<number of pesos credit to give> <space> 1212

So if her number is 905 502 4545 you text to 2905 502 4545
a text message containing <number of pesos credit> <space> 1212

for example "50 1212" without the quotes as the body of the text msg would add 50 pesos to her phone number. I don't know what the 1212 is but it worked. You'll get a success/failure response text.

i wouldn't give her too much cuz she'll just text other guys loll.

I REALLY liked a voice call first before actually having her come over because how pleasing her voice is is pretty important to how pleasant she is to have around. If she's crushingly dull and monotone or shrill, it's not good. For me 70%+ of women I had pipelined were willing to simply come over my hotel room, I was totally amazed.

Post: #41

To get unlimited internet for 1 month on globe do this...

send text to 8888.
message SUPERSURF999

It will cost you 999 pesos. ($22.50 USD)

Post: #42

GREAT tips IKE! Thanks for sharing them!

DD,
Is that valid for Manila only or all over the Phils? That's gold man!

Cheers guys!

Post: #43

(03-26-2014 12:02 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Is that valid for Manila only or all over the Phils? That's gold man!

Anywhere in the Philippines as long as you are on the Globe network.

Post: #44

^^ Smart has a similar plan for one week unlimited internet. I believe its texting to /2200/ this "LTE 299) and that buys an internet unlimited package. Using the "BROAT" texts (i.e., BROAT20) buys text packages. On Smart, even if you have unlimited internet and calls are very cheap, once you run out of included text messages, each additional text costs money. If you have two or three or ten or twenty (its possible, not exaggerating) girls texting you multiple times the nonsense they text, this will add up fast, so you need to add a text message package. On SMART, first text BAL, to see remaining load and remaining included text messages, and then buy a text message package before your text messages get down to zero, or your load will begin to disappear quite quickly thereafter.

Post: #45

all you have to do is to be white.. the whitest the better, so I think no game required...

Post: #46

(03-26-2014 02:15 AM)loveblondes Wrote:  all you have to do is to be white.. the whitest the better, so I think no game required...

On that note do they like mixed? Like half white half Asian?

Post: #47

(03-25-2014 11:50 PM)DirectDanger Wrote:  To get unlimited internet for 1 month on globe do this...

send text to 8888.
message SUPERSURF999

It will cost you 999 pesos. ($22.50 USD)

This ^

--he's got it down better than me.

Post: #48

(03-26-2014 05:11 AM)Smurf Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 02:15 AM)loveblondes Wrote:  all you have to do is to be white.. the whitest the better, so I think no game required...

On that note do they like mixed? Like half white half Asian?

Most actors and models are at least half, so I think so. Look at some Phils soap operas to see

Post: #49

(03-21-2014 09:38 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I've had people castigate me here on this forum because I intend to have children outside of the upwardly-mobile middle class system in place in the First World. I feel before I have that top one per cent, perfectly fed, high achiever kid some feel I am obligated to have, maybe I should think about the loss stemming from extinction of my line and at least try to have a kid at all.

Life is cheaper in the Orient. And that's good from some angles.

IKE, I can only assume you're talking about my comments from the other thread here. Sorry if I offended you, and I've always appreciated your posts on the forum, but at the risk of offending you more, I'm going to add more comments to what I've already said.

First off, insinuating I'm somehow caught up with in-the-box American thinking is way off base. I'm hardly the type to invest myself in mainstream paradigms as a basis for living choices.

I didn't grow up in middle-class America, for one – I grew up very poor. So I think I have some insight into this matter. Furthermore, I've got years of experience in boots-on-the-ground living side by side with poor people in third world countries. Not living above them and watching from afar or hearing details during pillow-talk like a lot of expats do, but right in the thick of it.

So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical that your short stay in the Philippines somehow gave you a unique perspective on what it means to live outside of first world lifestyle expectations that I just haven't had the opportunity to witness.

Simply put, you're wearing rose-colored glasses, Man. You're concerned about preserving your “line” from going extinct? Come on – seriously?

From what I can see, what you're going through is an understandable, if misplaced, urge to have the idea of a child because of a realization that you can have it for just $250 a month...

Yes, people can and do live on these incomes and they live somewhat comfortably enough. Our basic needs for surviving and thriving on this Earth are actually quite simple. In fact, I've dated women who made that much money for years at a time. I have some people I consider some of my best friends who make that much money. And I've actually lived on the amount of money you're talking about myself.

So I think I can speak with some degree of authority on this subject.

But don't fool yourself that these people's lives are ideal or that you'd want your kid to come up that way. Sure, they'll live comfortably enough and eat and have a social life. But they'll struggle, they'll feel stuck, and they'll be completely at the mercy of circumstances. They'll feel below people like you and me...

What these people lack are options.

What happens if the kid has a medical emergency? What if the kid wants an education and a chance at a half-way decent job? What happens when the next typhoon hits, destroying and taking lives by the thousands? Or when the local government decides they want the land their home is built on? What happens when their mom starts getting old and it's completely on them to care for her?

It's not the end of the world to live on such a small amount of money. People do it all the time. The real tragedy here is that your kid does not have to live like that.

You, as a first world citizen, have the option to give them more but you're just not interested in providing that. Or not willing to put out the effort. And rationalizing that decision to yourself by brushing off objections as sheep-think and differences in cultural paradigms.

I've got a question for you.

Are YOU going to stay in the Philippines and live on that same just-above-subsistence level as your kid? Maybe you plan to live in Phils, but will you accept the same lifestyle you're so ready and willing to expose your offspring to?

Why not?

That life not good enough for you?

This here is what I take issue with. You're rationalizing your kid having this lifestyle that you wouldn't even subject yourself to. I mean, if I remember correctly, many things in the third world made you pretty nervous while preparing for your trip...but it's okay for your child to live an entire life immersed in those realities and unshielded by a first world income?

And for what? So you can access the emotions associated with producing a child? One you don't really care to be there and offer support and guidance to?

Is it really that imperative the Earth have one more person out there consuming resources? One more third world mouth to feed that doesn't have the means to add value to mankind?

I understand you're getting older and these thoughts are natural among men – perhaps you're even seeking some type of purpose – but to me this seems like a vain, selfish decision to me. At least in the light you keep pitching it in.

Your decision to have a kid is basically rooted in convenience and only made possibly by currency differences. With all due respect, this is not the mindset of a man who needs to sustain his bloodline.

I'm not saying don't have a child in the Philippines.

But if you do, move there full-time and be a father to the kid. Work harder and make sacrifices if you don't have the money to do more – this is what men who choose to have families do.

They make sacrifices.

Or they choose not to have kids and continue living care-free...

Also, as a warning, if you really think this woman is just going to take your $250 a month and then go quietly into the night, giving you no further grief or demands, your rose-colored glasses may be darker than is safe for you.

This game has been going on for a long time, and women like this are essentially your opponents. Tread carefully. After all, is any man on this forum really surprised that a poor woman from the Philippines (who is conveniently interested in older, foreign men) would say “okay” if such a man presented the idea of having a child to her?

Of course these girls say yes. You may think you've got it figured out, but trust me when I say that they've been exposed to this playing field much longer than you have, even if the bulk of their experiences are second-hand, and are more than likely many steps ahead of you in their thinking.

Remember, these incomes they live on that seem so suitable at a glance are also what leads them to pursue these arrangements with foreign men. Maybe not her specifically but plenty of other hookers and gold diggers. If the life is so manageable, why are there so many desperately trying to escape that life by any means possible?

I honestly believe what will most likely happen is you'll end up putting a lot more into this relationship and spending a lot more time and money on this kid than you suspect. And in my opinion, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Look, I'm not saying that what you're interested in finding isn't possible. Even for a guy with a few more years and limited in financial means. What I am saying is slow down a little bit and give yourself some more time to get the lay of the land (and the girls who live there). This situation is far more complicated and potentially treacherous than you're acknowledging with your approach.

Spend a bit more time there before making any decisions. Do some research online about other expats who have gotten burned (and sometimes murdered) – as well as other expats who've pulled it off without issue. Immerse yourself in the lifestyle of people who live on a few hundred dollars a month to see what it's really all about.

It's not that bad, as I said, but it's not all roses either.

Most importantly, make the sacrifice of working a bit harder, even at a later age, if you want to start a family. And plan to do more for that family then sending them a few hundred dollars every month. You could always set up an internet business and work at a pretty easy pace in your later years and give your children a decent life without holding yourself to first world standards and buying into society's bullshit.

At the very least, give your children the same comforts in life you feel that you yourself deserve.

This is just my two cents, of course. It's your life and you can do what you like. You have quite a bit more life experience than I do, so perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, and perhaps you've already considered a lot of what I said. I just felt like it needed some more saying based on your comments.

Best of luck either way.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #50

(03-26-2014 08:45 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 09:38 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I've had people castigate me here on this forum because I intend to have children outside of the upwardly-mobile middle class system in place in the First World. I feel before I have that top one per cent, perfectly fed, high achiever kid some feel I am obligated to have, maybe I should think about the loss stemming from extinction of my line and at least try to have a kid at all.

Life is cheaper in the Orient. And that's good from some angles.

IKE, I can only assume you're talking about my comments from the other thread here. Sorry if I offended you, and I've always appreciated your posts on the forum, but at the risk of offending you more, I'm going to add more comments to what I've already said.

No, I'm not really offended, I know most of the people here are at most 40. Someone who's forty has been an adult only about half as long as I have. They just haven't had the opportunity to feel old age really start to settle in, so their thoughts on mortality and how to deal with it have limited utility to me.

I think we all have the perfect right to decide whether to have kids and pick how we take care of them, you as much as me.
I think your opinions are valid and encourage you to follow them in running your own life.

If someone's really bad at taking care of their kids, there's CPS. I've called them in my health care practive several times because my clients were so out of it they can't take care of their kids, or they were just too broke to take care of them ( heat switched off in Minnesota etc.)

I think I can do well enough to avoid having CPS called on me. For one thing my EU citizenship means I can get them college educations without 100K+ debt because of the evils of soshulism.