Post: #26

I build my entire life around personal fitness. My career takes 2nd place to my work out routine. Eventually, my priorities will probably end up like this in my 30s-40s.

1. Personal Fitness
2. Career
3. Family

Considering I work out in the morning, I doubt this will be an issue. I'd love to have a personal gym.

Post: #27

He is on roids. This is coming from a person who is on roids cycles, never PCT.

Post: #28

I've noticed that most in shape guys have great genetics to start with. People tend to do what they're good at. But as you age, your hormone levels drop and you no longer have the same genetic advantage.

All of a sudden, you need to be a lot smarter, more accurate with your programming and you have to do it with less hormonal drive.

Post: #29

(05-28-2014 03:47 PM)Yuan Wrote:  I've noticed that most in shape guys have great genetics to start with. People tend to do what they're good at. But as you age, your hormone levels drop and you no longer have the same genetic advantage.

All of a sudden, you need to be a lot smarter, more accurate with your programming and you have to do it with less hormonal drive.

Or you just get one TRT and GH and have about the same testosterone as a 21 year old man. However yes, you need to be smarter, gone are the days of deadlifting and squatting ridiculous amounts of weight and you need to use a lot more machines.

Post: #30

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/11/her...index.html

Nearing 50, Renaissance jock Herschel Walker breaks fitness rules

Quote:Javier Mendez, a mixed martial arts trainer for 32 years, scoffed when he heard that retired NFL star Herschel Walker, who's nearing 50, wanted to compete in ultimate fighting.
"Yeah, I didn't think he could do it," Mendez said. "I thought it was a joke."
Walker had been out of football for 12 years. Aging football players tend to get flabby, play golf or relive the spotlight under "Dancing With the Stars."
But the 1982 Heisman Trophy winner from the University of Georgia always had an unorthodox streak.
After stints of ballet dancing, Olympic bobsledding, running track and field, gaining a black belt in taekwondo and retiring from a celebrated football career, Renaissance jock Walker has dived into the most physically demanding and controversial sport of his career.
At 48, Walker is training for his second Strikeforce mixed martial arts fight, scheduled for December 4.
"I was in great shape when I was younger," he said. "This is the toughest thing I've ever done. I think that's the reason I'm in better shape than I've ever been in."
He was chosen to pose naked for ESPN The Magazine's "The Body" issue, out last week, to show his muscular physique.
"I'm going to do something different, to be a little different than the average person," he said. "You can't be in the same cookie cutter."
Walker has never followed the fitness norms.
He eats once a day, skipping breakfast and lunch. After a long, intense day of training, he eats salad and bread for dinner. He doesn't care for meat or fuss about getting enough protein. Walker's a vegetarian.
"It's a mindset -- something I've been doing for a long time," he said. "I don't worry about protein. I don't worry about all that. I'm from old school. I grew up in south Georgia. They didn't worry about cholesterol or protein. They went out and worked and lived a long time, so I don't put a lot of worries in my mind. I just get it done."
Sometimes, Walker doesn't have an appetite and will go through seven hours of wrestling, kickboxing, sparring and practicing jujitsu without having eaten for three or four days.
"It's just unbelievable," said Mendez, who trains Walker at the American Kickboxing Academy in San Jose, California. "He shouldn't be able to do what he's doing. I don't think it's possible to eat as little as possible and work out the way he does. There's no way. He's an unbelievable athlete."
Mendez doesn't try to change it either.
"You can't fix it, because it's not broken," he said. "You can try to understand it -- good luck with that."
And no, Mendez thinks it probably won't work for most people.
At 5:30 a.m., Walker wakes up to do 750 to 1,500 push-ups and about 2,000 sit-ups.
"I try to show the world at my age, I could do it," Walker said. "I'm not trying to be arrogant. My parents say you can't make excuses in life, you've got to get it done."
And he did. In his first Strikeforce fight in January, Walker defeated Greg Nagy, a fighter almost half his age.
Walker's genesis into a Renaissance jock sprang from chubby beginnings.
He was a pudgy boy with a stutter who was picked on and shoved as a child.
At 15, he said he "started working out after watching 'Love Connection' and started doing push-ups and sit-ups," he said. "I started doing it on my own -- that gave me confidence."
As he developed into an athlete, his interests varied from two-man bobsledding to ballet.
"When I started out as little kid, I didn't say I just want to run football. I wanted to be a great athlete," he said.
"It's mind over matter. You got to work at it. You can't assume you're a great football player so you'll win in bobsledding. It doesn't mean you don't have to work."
Walker's recent return to competition sends a different message to middle-aged men who believe that getting out of shape is the inevitable part of aging, his trainer said.
"It doesn't matter your age," Mendez said. "You can do it at any age. Look at your desire. Don't let age be a barrier to prevent you from doing something you want to do."

My takeaway:

- Muscles only get stronger with repeated use
- Joints fall apart over time so take it easy on them
- Slow and steady wins the race
- Avoid junkfood no matter your age, only indulge a few times a year and when you do, indulge well!

Post: #31

(05-28-2014 04:19 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 03:47 PM)Yuan Wrote:  I've noticed that most in shape guys have great genetics to start with. People tend to do what they're good at. But as you age, your hormone levels drop and you no longer have the same genetic advantage.

All of a sudden, you need to be a lot smarter, more accurate with your programming and you have to do it with less hormonal drive.

Or you just get one TRT and GH and have about the same testosterone as a 21 year old man. However yes, you need to be smarter, gone are the days of deadlifting and squatting ridiculous amounts of weight and you need to use a lot more machines.

Depends on your goals. There will be men that are not willing to compromise quality longevity for it. I'm just not convinced with the long term safety of test and gh therapy. More research needs to be done on this area.

Post: #32

(05-29-2014 03:03 PM)Yuan Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 04:19 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 03:47 PM)Yuan Wrote:  I've noticed that most in shape guys have great genetics to start with. People tend to do what they're good at. But as you age, your hormone levels drop and you no longer have the same genetic advantage.

All of a sudden, you need to be a lot smarter, more accurate with your programming and you have to do it with less hormonal drive.

Or you just get one TRT and GH and have about the same testosterone as a 21 year old man. However yes, you need to be smarter, gone are the days of deadlifting and squatting ridiculous amounts of weight and you need to use a lot more machines.

Depends on your goals. There will be men that are not willing to compromise quality longevity for it. I'm just not convinced with the long term safety of test and gh therapy. More research needs to be done on this area.

When you are still young and growing yes. But when your hormones have levelled out and then begin on a decline, there is nothing wrong with bringing them to optimal levels. And its a misconception that you need a lot. Guys that win the Olympia are on a lot less shit than the average person thinks they are.

There are safe ways to take steroids, you just can't be an idiot and have to understand less is more.

Post: #33

(05-29-2014 03:50 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(05-29-2014 03:03 PM)Yuan Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 04:19 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 03:47 PM)Yuan Wrote:  I've noticed that most in shape guys have great genetics to start with. People tend to do what they're good at. But as you age, your hormone levels drop and you no longer have the same genetic advantage.

All of a sudden, you need to be a lot smarter, more accurate with your programming and you have to do it with less hormonal drive.

Or you just get one TRT and GH and have about the same testosterone as a 21 year old man. However yes, you need to be smarter, gone are the days of deadlifting and squatting ridiculous amounts of weight and you need to use a lot more machines.

Depends on your goals. There will be men that are not willing to compromise quality longevity for it. I'm just not convinced with the long term safety of test and gh therapy. More research needs to be done on this area.

When you are still young and growing yes. But when your hormones have levelled out and then begin on a decline, there is nothing wrong with bringing them to optimal levels. And its a misconception that you need a lot. Guys that win the Olympia are on a lot less shit than the average person thinks they are.

There are safe ways to take steroids, you just can't be an idiot and have to understand less is more.

As the body ages, a lot of its functions diminish. The main concern is about losing the ability to prevent build up in the blood vessels and fending off free radicals. Naturally dropping test and gh levels actually helps accommodate this. Raising test and gh levels artificially raises your likelihood of heart disease and cancer.

There is no research on the long term effects of test and gh therapy. The best study so far was just 3 years long (which is quite short, as the effects would more likely rise exponentially over time rather than linearly) and it was only published November of last year. 3 months later, the FDA to started an evaluation over the risk of stroke, heart attack and death with FDA approved testosterone products in an attempt to collect more data.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm3...e-products

Hormone therapy has been gaining a lot more popularity, but research on the long term side effects is only starting now. So personally, I wouldn't recommend it as a 'safe' product for the long term. Maybe in a decade or two when we know more, until then it's 'have fun with it, but you might end up dealing with some harsh side effects even under clinical administration.'

Post: #34

Christ where is MikeCF when you need him!

You guys don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Post: #35

(05-28-2014 02:50 PM)roid Wrote:  He is on roids. This is coming from a person who is on roids cycles, never PCT.

Its probably fair to assume that anyone who makes money with a ripped body (fitness models, actors, professional bodybuilders) is probably on some kind of "supplements".

Post: #36

I would love Mikes input, calling on MikeCF!

Post: #37

(05-27-2014 02:31 AM)Mage Wrote:  Young people train in vast numbers, but why do people after 30 generally drop this?

Is it the fact that progression becomes harder with age?

Or is it that men get tamed and turned to be beta providers 24/7 by women?

I am going to train my body until I hit the grave, but what is the reason most men stop doing that? It's so strange because benefits are so big.

For most guys it's work, time, and family that makes them skip out on workouts.

I'm in my early 30s now and finally starting to feel like I'm slowing down a bit. I'll never stop training BJJ and lifting, but even now it's getting more difficult. Lifting 3x a week and BJJ 3-4X a week will leave me completely exhausted. I've also noticed an overall 'beat down' feeling lately. It really does creep up on you.

Post: #38

(05-29-2014 09:37 PM)Yuan Wrote:  Hormone therapy has been gaining a lot more popularity, but research on the long term side effects is only starting now. So personally, I wouldn't recommend it as a 'safe' product for the long term. Maybe in a decade or two when we know more, until then it's 'have fun with it, but you might end up dealing with some harsh side effects even under clinical administration.'

Show me the studies that show how supplementing with testosterone to get your levels to optimal raises your risk of heart disease or cancer.

If you're referring to that study that showed a possible increase in heart attack risk. The increased risk was found in men under 65 with a history of heart disease. Granted it did state that there was an increased risk in men over 65 even if they didn't have preexisting heart problems, but let's face it after 65 most men are not in optimal health.

The side effects of TRT are well-documented. Your body will shutdown it's production of testosterone, but you can take hCG which mimics LH, and your balls will keep functioning. You may take a slight hit to your HDL/LDL ratio. Your estrogen may increase, and there are aromatase inhibitors for that. Your red blood count may increase.

The positive effects - everything else.

There are plenty of guys out there who have been steroid abusers, taking large amounts for long period times and are in their 50s and 60s and fine.

Claiming that there are 'harsh side effects' from a replacement dose of testosterone is just plain wrong.

Post: #39

(05-30-2014 05:15 PM)Neo Wrote:  

(05-27-2014 02:31 AM)Mage Wrote:  Young people train in vast numbers, but why do people after 30 generally drop this?

Is it the fact that progression becomes harder with age?

Or is it that men get tamed and turned to be beta providers 24/7 by women?

I am going to train my body until I hit the grave, but what is the reason most men stop doing that? It's so strange because benefits are so big.

For most guys it's work, time, and family that makes them skip out on workouts.

I'm in my early 30s now and finally starting to feel like I'm slowing down a bit. I'll never stop training BJJ and lifting, but even now it's getting more difficult. Lifting 3x a week and BJJ 3-4X a week will leave me completely exhausted. I've also noticed an overall 'beat down' feeling lately. It really does creep up on you.

To me the wall was at 35. I was making progress till 35 and the last three years is simply spinning the wheels to stay the same or make very little progress.

It's time to start juicing.

Post: #40

(05-30-2014 05:39 PM)Neo Wrote:  

(05-29-2014 09:37 PM)Yuan Wrote:  Hormone therapy has been gaining a lot more popularity, but research on the long term side effects is only starting now. So personally, I wouldn't recommend it as a 'safe' product for the long term. Maybe in a decade or two when we know more, until then it's 'have fun with it, but you might end up dealing with some harsh side effects even under clinical administration.'

Show me the studies that show how supplementing with testosterone to get your levels to optimal raises your risk of heart disease or cancer.

If you're referring to that study that showed a possible increase in heart attack risk. The increased risk was found in men under 65 with a history of heart disease. Granted it did state that there was an increased risk in men over 65 even if they didn't have preexisting heart problems, but let's face it after 65 most men are not in optimal health.

The side effects of TRT are well-documented. Your body will shutdown it's production of testosterone, but you can take hCG which mimics LH, and your balls will keep functioning. You may take a slight hit to your HDL/LDL ratio. Your estrogen may increase, and there are aromatase inhibitors for that. Your red blood count may increase.

The positive effects - everything else.

There are plenty of guys out there who have been steroid abusers, taking large amounts for long period times and are in their 50s and 60s and fine.

Claiming that there are 'harsh side effects' from a replacement dose of testosterone is just plain wrong.

To my knowledge test therapy does not have anything to do with increased cancer risk. I brought up gh therapy as well and growth hormone accelerates certain types of cancer growth. So the concern with gh therapy is that undiscovered cancer will become a much bigger problem.

When it comes to test therapy, there is one good study so far. It has a good sample size, lasted longer than previous studies and it came out after a comprehensive meta-analysis called out pharmaceutical companies for creating bias in their funded studies.

This one started out with a sample of 8709 male veterans, mean age 60 years, 1223 men got test therapy. It showed an increased risk of MI's, stroke and death by 5.8% regardless of whether or not they had pre-existing heart conditions after 3 years. You can check out the details here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24193080

Here is an article about the study for easy reading:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinolog...logy/42735

Previous studies were quite small, even shorter in duration and there are signs of foul play, so I'm not exactly convinced of its findings. In this meta-analysis of previous studies on test therapy, they found that "in trials not funded by the pharmaceutical industry the risk of a cardiovascular-related event on testosterone therapy was greater than in pharmaceutical industry funded trials". http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/108

If the average life expectancy of an American male is 77.4 years old (significantly longer if you make better life choices), it's perfectly valid to assume that a man could use test therapy for three decades or longer to enhance their life. A study lasting just one decade would clear things up.

The potential 'harsh side effects' I'm talking about are increased MI's and strokes and it's based on the veterans study. Sure, the problem with my assertion is that the median age was 60 years old and younger men were not examined, but it's the best thing we have to go off of. If anything, saying it's perfectly safe for the long term based on anecdotal evidence is plain wrong. We just don't have any good data on the long term effects to be able to say it's completely safe.

Post: #41

Hugh Jackman is definitely on steroids.

So was Christian Bale for Batman.

And I know for a fact that Tom Hardy was for Warrior. My close friend was one of the fight co-ordinator's for that film and personally saw Tom injecting. (He also was a stunt double for some scenes)

That's the the hilarious part about Men's Health cover stories with these actors where they show a bullshit workout and say that's all the actor did to get in top shape.

Right.

Post: #42

What we see, is not what we get.
Behind movies and magazine covers there's much more than what they tell us. We just need to be smart and seek out information.
Of course Jackman is on roids. It's almost impossible to attain that physique at his age (45) without hormones.
I would also say it is almost impossible to have that physique (or have that growth) at any age unless "those are the roids you've been looking for" of it's your fulltime job.

im not hating on roids, when my time comes (in about 10 years) I'll also start to take them. I'm hating on the misinformation that we get, but it's better to have our male hamster spinning trying to achieve those physiques using bullshit workouts, and taking loads of supplements, and ofcourse buying a magazine that has half the pages with advertisements every month than having the stone cold truth.

Post: #43

(05-31-2014 12:39 AM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  Hugh Jackman is definitely on steroids.

So was Christian Bale for Batman.

And I know for a fact that Tom Hardy was for Warrior. My close friend was one of the fight co-ordinator's for that film and personally saw Tom injecting. (He also was a stunt double for some scenes)

That's the the hilarious part about Men's Health cover stories with these actors where they show a bullshit workout and say that's all the actor did to get in top shape.

Right.

The workout game is another hustle. Most people who have worked out with a variety of people of different racial backgrounds for an extended period of time will have a true understanding of the limits of how the body can look in terms of total lean muscle mass and vascularity.

I can eyeball a cosmetic roid user maybe 8 times out of 10.

Post: #44

(05-31-2014 12:39 AM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  That's the the hilarious part about Men's Health cover stories with these actors where they show a bullshit workout and say that's all the actor did to get in top shape.
Right.

Doing the workouts is no problem, but living the life for maintaining the diet and recovery would require a monk-like lifestyle. Hard to believe for an actor living in Hollywood. No way I could do it.

Post: #45

Jackman's strength numbers seem totally reachable for a guy in his 40's. I'm in my late 30's and I hit 420x5 on the DL after 10 months training. I started as a total weakling. I do live/train kind of like a monk, though. He lifted all through his 30's, so why not. By all accounts he is a very hard worker and is dedicated to fitness.

It's a question of getting down to that really low body fat he has and staying strong. That's quite difficult/impressive and I would guess he might be using something for that. I know nothing about it, though.

He looks big In candid photos for sure but not as "ripped" as in the movie shots as Wolverine. I read somewhere that he would lift weights between takes to get all pumped up. Then, in certain shots he is holding heavy sandbags, to tense up his arm muscles, which they edit out. Hollywood tricks.

MikeCFs blog had a post about the twitter pic. He is deadlifting 460 or something like that.

Post: #46

"Muscle memory" is real, but of course the bodybuilding community knew this a long time before scientists did. Muscle fibres change PERMANENTLY with training: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memo...raining%29

You basically add new muscle nuclei with strength training and while they atrophy when you stop training, they are still there. That is why lifters who take long breaks can get back to previous strength and physique much faster the second time. Took me about 3 months to regain 90% of strength after a 2 year lay off. I am also bigger than I ever was.

The takeaway is simple. Hit those heavy weights while you are young hard so that you can maintain when you are older.

Truth be told, you put in the hard work for a year and you can easily maintain sizeable mass on only 3 hours a week.

It's only a problem if you're 45 or 50 and begin lifting heavy for the first time.

Diet is becoming a bitch though and I am not even old. I have 5kg to go to reach my goal weight and it seems very difficult to keep up the dicipline.

Post: #47

Putting aside "physique", this should be enough to motivate everyone here to hit the gym (or whatever it is you do for fitness/strength):

https://physsportsmed.org/doi/10.3810/psm.2011.09.1933

Check out the MRIs of different guys' quads.

Post: #48

How can you eyeball if someone is on roids though? Even if they aren't big?

Post: #49

(06-02-2014 09:47 PM)kbell Wrote:  How can you eyeball if someone is on roids though? Even if they aren't big?

You can usually tell by the shoulder girdle, the deltoids, traps, and upper chest will explode when taking steroids because the receptors in this area work quicker and are more numerous * (don't quote me on this) than the rest of the body. Visible acne in some, and usually a very "dry" appearance.

After going to the gym for a couple years, you will be able to tell who is natural and who is enhancing.

Post: #50

I've been going for years to the gym. I only really notice on guys that seem too large, or recover really fast from intense workouts. But I tend to be more focused on my workout.