Post: #1

I read cross some websites and I first noticed how expensive this style of meditation is. Everyone said that you can't learn it by yourself so you need an instructor. I tried to search for experiential reports of clients but could not find anyone It's like a big secret which rather should not come to light.

Maybe someone of the forum members has experience with TM? Right now I'm practicing the most common variety of meditation the insight meditation. It makes really "fun" and after each session I feel a little charged up.

By the way I came across the TM from the book "The lazy way to success" of Fred Gratzon. I can recommend this book.

I would appreciate if someone could share his impressions.

Post: #2

The term "transcendental medidation" is basically a brand or a trade mark.
Some Indians came to the USA and said there is only one right way to meditate and they will give every person a special word. How do they pick that word? They choose it with their super powers of course and you only have to pay them a few thousand dollars. They fooled famous people into this. It works but you don't have to pay for it or follow their stupid rules.

Man if you want to meditate it's easy and you don't have to pay for it. If you want to do it like them TM dudes do it just think of a nice word and repeat it endlessly in your thoughts, only concentrating on that word.

If my mind is going crazy and I think it would be helpful to medidate I just lay down and try to get thinking to stop by concentrating on my body or a thought. Trying to get that noise to stop and to get into this peaceful powerful silence.

It's like if you aren't aware and concentrated all the time your brain will start using it's processing power for all kinds of bullshit thoughts running in circles. With medidation you stop those circles and get back to that idle mode. Then you can decide where you want to put your 100% brain power in.

Post: #3

I attended their free seminar, where they sell you on it. I researched the training and its around $2000. I asked people I know who do it, and who have tried other forms, and always come back with a resounding positive recommendation to do TM. I was put off by the religious chants, but if you look at them like meaningless words, I guess its ok. I am not sure if writing them off as meaningless words is a good thing if these words have a deeper meaning.

I have always been skeptical of their celebrity endorsements; Howard Stern, Jerry Seinfeld, etc. They claim they are unpaid endorsements. I am a big fan of Howard for 25+ years, but its hard to conceive celebrities giving such huge glowing praise for free. Maybe they do, who knows.

I am trying to get back into meditation to deal with my anxious, temper driven mind. I was considering TM, and if they actually teach a good mediation practice that I use daily, the $2K is worth it to me. I was going to start with other free methods for a while, just to build a consistent daily practice. Would love to hear other thoughts.

Post: #4

(06-09-2014 08:20 AM)Bad-Habit Wrote:  ... They fooled famous people into this. It works but you don't have to pay for it or follow their stupid rules.

Man if you want to meditate it's easy and you don't have to pay for it. If you want to do it like them TM dudes do it just think of a nice word and repeat it endlessly in your thoughts, only concentrating on that word.

If my mind is going crazy and I think it would be helpful to medidate I just lay down and try to get thinking to stop by concentrating on my body or a thought. Trying to get that noise to stop and to get into this peaceful powerful silence.

Exactly - meditation or my preferred form contemplation actually cannot even be taught physically by a person. You can learn the basics from books easily enough.

Deep state meditative states are btw. not really that effective - I have met a few yogis who went into a deep state for months or longer and then after getting up, they were about as wise as someone going into a coma. One dude I've heard of went into that state before asking for some tea - after a few months (or some say even years) he came back and the first thing he said is: "Where is my tea?" Good job - mate - certainly growing spiritually there!

Personally I do contemplation techniques by chanting various words aloud or within, focusing on the crown chakra or third eye - then later going silent. I also use various visualisations and do out-of-body exercises. Most Tibetan monks do that as well as some Franciscans and Sufis - so it is nothing new or revolutionary.

The longer you do it, the better you will become at it resulting in ever deeper and more refined experiences. That field reacts to the same laws as everything else - with practice you become a master.

Post: #5

(06-09-2014 08:51 AM)Vaun Wrote:  I attended their free seminar, where they sell you on it. I researched the training and its around $2000. I asked people I know who do it, and who have tried other forms, and always come back with a resounding positive recommendation to do TM. I was put off by the religious chants, but if you look at them like meaningless words, I guess its ok. But if these words have a deeper meaning you are supposed to buy into, in order to get the most out of TM, then I am not sure if writing them off as meaningless words is a good thing.

I... I was going to start with other free methods I have learned for a while, just to build a consistent daily practice first. Would love to hear other thoughts.

Sounds like you will like Zen inspired meditation that the Samurai were using. Highly effective - in the highest levels they even let go of hate towards the enemy and even killed with respect and detachment - not being anything personal. Of course being in control of anger is a step way before that.

2000$ to learn it is not worth it. There are plenty of books out there written by people who are 100x better at it than the guys teaching celebrity courses.

Post: #6

(06-09-2014 08:58 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 08:51 AM)Vaun Wrote:  I attended their free seminar, where they sell you on it. I researched the training and its around $2000. I asked people I know who do it, and who have tried other forms, and always come back with a resounding positive recommendation to do TM. I was put off by the religious chants, but if you look at them like meaningless words, I guess its ok. But if these words have a deeper meaning you are supposed to buy into, in order to get the most out of TM, then I am not sure if writing them off as meaningless words is a good thing.

I... I was going to start with other free methods I have learned for a while, just to build a consistent daily practice first. Would love to hear other thoughts.

Sounds like you will like Zen inspired meditation that the Samurai were using. Highly effective - in the highest levels they even let go of hate towards the enemy and even killed with respect and detachment - not being anything personal. Of course being in control of anger is a step way before that.

2000$ to learn it is not worth it. There are plenty of books out there written by people who are 100x better at it than the guys teaching celebrity courses.

Cool, any book recommendations? Article? Would love to check it out.

Post: #7

(06-09-2014 06:41 AM)RandomGuy1 Wrote:  I read cross some websites and I first noticed how expensive this style of meditation is. Everyone said that you can't learn it by yourself so you need an instructor. I tried to search for experiential reports of clients but could not find anyone It's like a big secret which rather should not come to light.

Maybe someone of the forum members has experience with TM? Right now I'm practicing the most common variety of meditation the insight meditation. It makes really "fun" and after each session I feel a little charged up.

By the way I came across the TM from the book "The lazy way to success" of Fred Gratzon. I can recommend this book.

I would appreciate if someone could share his impressions.

Spiritual life is free. It's not something that you can buy. I would be very cautious of anyone who is promising you spiritual life in exchange for money.

Just find some mantra that you feel attracted to, and start chanting that. Buy the Gita and Vedas and Puranas and read them yourself. You don't need some control freak guru type to tell you what is the truth. Choose what feels right to you, and if something doesn't feel right to you, then do not waste time practicing that particular aspect. Spirituality is a completely unique and personal, individual experience. What works for one person may not work for another. It's up to ourselves to follow our own heart first and foremost and to accept whatever we feel most naturally attracted to.

Post: #8

(06-09-2014 09:06 AM)Vaun Wrote:  Cool, any book recommendations? Article? Would love to check it out.

That sounds like a good start like any others: http://www.amazon.com/Meditation-Plain-E...0861713168
http://www.wikihow.com/Begin-Zen-Meditation-(Zazen)

Also there might be some Zen meditation groups in your town.

A tip: personally I prefer to sit on a comfortable chair. Some of the rules were simply taken from cultures, which had different seating arrangements. The techniques work equally well when sitting in a Lazyboy. Just lying in bed or falling asleep is counter-productive.

My personal approach is along these lines:
http://www.amazon.com/Road-Taken-His-Thr...iott+James
but that is if you have goals in the form of being a wisdom seeker.

Either way - daily meditation/contemplation helps everyone whether aspiring Saint/Jedi/Sith or everyday Joe trying not to blow up during traffic hour.

Post: #9

(06-09-2014 11:20 AM)boycottamericanwomen Wrote:  Spiritual life is free. It's not something that you can buy. I would be very cautious of anyone who is promising you spiritual life in exchange for money.

Spirituality is a completely unique and personal, individual experience. What works for one person may not work for another. It's up to ourselves to follow our own heart first and foremost and to accept whatever we feel most naturally attracted to.

You're right. Thank you for your words

(06-09-2014 11:52 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Also there might be some Zen meditation groups in your town.

Have you ever been to such meditation groups? If yes, could you please briefly explain the benefits you have experienced of those lessons?

Post: #10

I have been meditating for years and in my opinion paying $2000 for a secret meditation mantra is like paying for bottled water. If you want a meditation object, start by following your breath. Meditation is something natural. I had a meditation teacher, who is internationally known, tell me that TM can create some peace of mind but it doesn't get you that far in comparison to practices like Vipassana.

Post: #11

(06-09-2014 03:32 PM)RandomGuy1 Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 11:52 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Also there might be some Zen meditation groups in your town.

Have you ever been to such meditation groups? If yes, could you please briefly explain the benefits you have experienced of those lessons?

Not to such one. I recommended Zen meditation because they are usually undogmatic and have Japanese ways which we Westerners can more easily identify than with traditional Indian gurus.

I have been to others more up my alley. I am not a big fan of group-exercises - but it helps meeting with likeminded people and talking about experiences.

Post: #12

Go watch Kumare (http://kumaremovie.com/) before dropping a dime on any gurus.

Meditation is great, it can work wonders, there's definitely value in it. But just about everything you need to know can be learned for free. People have been doing it for thousands of years, the info is out there. Personally I like the mindfulness approach but there are any number of ways to get to the same place. If you are going to drop coin you might as well do something cool like go on a retreat.

Post: #13

(06-09-2014 08:51 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Deep state meditative states are btw. not really that effective - I have met a few yogis who went into a deep state for months or longer and then after getting up, they were about as wise as someone going into a coma. One dude I've heard of went into that state before asking for some tea - after a few months (or some say even years) he came back and the first thing he said is: "Where is my tea?" Good job - mate - certainly growing spiritually there!

Many forms of meditation are actually very anti-life. Which makes sense if you consider the context in which they originated in. Many forms of meditation were developed for and by ascetic monks. Their goals were not 'our' goals, they were not the goals of people trying to improve and enrich their life. They were people that had to basically become robots. They had to kill their sexual desire, the desire for any form of pleasure really, they had to learn to numb themselves to the constant physical discomfort they experienced, they had to learn to live in isolation their entire lives.

Like the saying goes, not all that glitters is gold. I'm highly skeptical of any 'enlightenment' that is achieved by erasing your entire personality and everything that makes you human. If I wanted that a bullet in the head would be much more effective.
***

That being said I've been practicing Samatha(calming) meditation on and off for a couple of years. It does help to call me down. But I've always hesitated getting to deelpy into it or exploring other forms of meditation like Vipassana.
I've read about... unpleasant side-effects.

Post: #14

You might want to watch this movie before giving any money to that organization. They probably do have a fairly good meditation system (except for the levitation nonsense), but they also charge a premium price for it and their organization does not appear to be as grandiose as they try to make it seem.

Post: #15

(06-09-2014 06:04 PM)The PerSev Wrote:  Many forms of meditation are actually very anti-life.

Exactly. Now - I would not discount someone going for months into a cave and getting something out of it. But those are exceptions - I have learnt about someone who used that time (while food & drink was lowered down to him daily) to train his concentration to such a degree, that he could later leave his body at will just by sheer concentration.

There are actually 3 ways of the practice from one end to the other:

Meditation (emptying of thoughts) - Contemplation (partly emptying, but sometimes using visualization or relaxed meditation - my favorite) - Concentration (hardly known - you use an extreme form of concentrative ability to i.e. leave your body, manifest something in life via visualization)

Concentration is described in books even by Jack London - he describes the process by concentrating at the toes and shifting the Astral body out step by step - I even met a woman who attempted that process for 6 months 1-2 hours daily. Her mental faculties then were so strong, that as soon as she learnt some more relaxed contemplative techniques she could leave her body almost at will.

Either way - we Westerners are not really that interested in running away from life via meditation, so I don't see it as a danger. Most are just trying to get some area into control or growing spiritually.

Post: #16

(06-09-2014 06:01 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Go watch Kumare (http://kumaremovie.com/) before dropping a dime on any gurus.

Interesting documentary. It is so easy to construct a "religious" persona or even an entire religion. I often see some guys like Eckhart Tolle being praised on Opera and being so "holy" regurgitating old 100-year-old books by Madama Blavatsky - at least she had some experiences, while others respond to some questions with:
"I don't know, what do you think?"

Here - the religions of Bart Simpson in one episode:

Fast-forward to 19:00
http://video.yandex.ru/users/prodg/view/93

That is why I prefer to read and take in everything with doubt - then retest and experience things myself.

Post: #17

I know some serious meditators. They are the freest, happiest, most confident people I have ever met. They are extremely "present oriented", and claim that the majority of us are trapped inside a prison we created ourselves through our craving for things like status, wealth, love, etc.
However, they are no saints, and still occasionally drink or eat to excess.

Post: #18

Did the the "TM" course many, many years ago. The teacher was one of the Maharishi's" first students. She was older when I knew her, but she was almost certainly hot back in the day. By several accounts the the founder of TM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Mahesh_Yogi) was quite the cult leader/player when starting out, and had a distinctly "non-spiritual" interest in his young female students.

I didn't keep up with TM since it didn't really change my perceptions, feelings or sense of well being or equanimity. But I am naturally a ridiculously calm person anyway so for most of the time the only way for me to get any calmer is to fall asleep... And that is free and doesn't need to be practiced for 15 minutes twice a day.

But meditation is definitely useful in the right circumstances. Say if you have chronic stress. It's just that there is no compelling reason to pay $2,000 to learn how to meditate. You could likely cobble together your own practice just by doing some research and keeping some basics in mind. One thing they do say, though, is that you need to give it some time. Not meditate once and expect all your problems to be gone.

Post: #19

(06-09-2014 06:04 PM)The PerSev Wrote:  Many forms of meditation are actually very anti-life.

This is a very good point. Most religions are anti-life, aka anti-sex. I actually wrote an article and submitted it to RoK about this, called "Can Sex Become Spiritual?" in which I talked about how the original religions on this planet, the "natural religions", used sex as a method of worshipping the Divine or attaining enlightenment.

Roosh said the article was a bit complex and would just confuse the RoK readers, which I agree with. I uploaded my article to my mediafire account, so if you're interested in reading it, you can get it here

http://www.mediafire.com/view/6isury46oc...ticle.docx

Post: #20

(06-11-2014 03:22 AM)boycottamericanwomen Wrote:  This is a very good point. Most religions are anti-life, aka anti-sex. I actually wrote an article and submitted it to RoK about this, called "Can Sex Become Spiritual?" in which I talked about how the original religions on this planet, the "natural religions", used sex as a method of worshipping the Divine or attaining enlightenment.

Roosh said the article was a bit complex and would just confuse the RoK readers, which I agree with. I uploaded my article to my mediafire account, so if you're interested in reading it, you can get it here

http://www.mediafire.com/view/6isury46oc...ticle.docx

Read your article. In my experience it is simply not enough to be highly masculine or feminine. There are certain cultures like the Japanese who were quite open about sex and only got suppressed by the prude Americans who stationed there after WWII.
A lot of the innate natural male/female energy remains even despite the number of effeminate men growing there. The women still try to be feminine in many respects and are open about their sexuality, which explains why they can let go more easily during sex etc.

But only strong male and female manifestations will not produce much real spiritual progress. They certainly make sex more fun for both parties, but that would be all.

I have experimented with certain energy sex techniques years back and actually managed to get a strong connection with 2 girls at the same time. They were both addicted for a while to me - one even cheated on her new boyfriend despite being in love with him. After some time I could even manage to give her goosebumps just by touching her in public. Too bad I stopped doing those sex-exercises later.

However I don't think it will produce tangible spiritual results. You get lost too easily on the sexual energies. That is why hardly any spiritual person uses the lower chakras for concentration, because they are fine for certain skills, but not useful as a tool for spiritual growth. This world is material enough.

Nevertheless I recommend these techniques for anyone who wishes to augment his sexual life with a LTR or wife - sex can indeed become better and better over time with it. The process is actually not that difficult - you do spiritual exercises/meditations and then when having sex focus on energy flowing through you and your partner - the woman does not even has to do it consciously. I found the women rather the recipients of our energy and not vice-versa during sex.

Interesting book on relationships and sex - written by a woman, but she is quite balanced: http://www.amazon.com/On-Breath-Gods-Ari...0923490094

Post: #21

(06-11-2014 05:07 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 03:22 AM)boycottamericanwomen Wrote:  This is a very good point. Most religions are anti-life, aka anti-sex. I actually wrote an article and submitted it to RoK about this, called "Can Sex Become Spiritual?" in which I talked about how the original religions on this planet, the "natural religions", used sex as a method of worshipping the Divine or attaining enlightenment.

Roosh said the article was a bit complex and would just confuse the RoK readers, which I agree with. I uploaded my article to my mediafire account, so if you're interested in reading it, you can get it here

http://www.mediafire.com/view/6isury46oc...ticle.docx

Read your article. In my experience it is simply not enough to be highly masculine or feminine. There are certain cultures like the Japanese who were quite open about sex and only got suppressed by the prude Americans who stationed there after WWII.
A lot of the innate natural male/female energy remains even despite the number of effeminate men growing there. The women still try to be feminine in many respects and are open about their sexuality, which explains why they can let go more easily during sex etc.

But only strong male and female manifestations will not produce much real spiritual progress. They certainly make sex more fun for both parties, but that would be all.

I have experimented with certain energy sex techniques years back and actually managed to get a strong connection with 2 girls at the same time. They were both addicted for a while to me - one even cheated on her new boyfriend despite being in love with him. After some time I could even manage to give her goosebumps just by touching her in public. Too bad I stopped doing those sex-exercises later.

However I don't think it will produce tangible spiritual results. You get lost too easily on the sexual energies. That is why hardly any spiritual person uses the lower chakras for concentration, because they are fine for certain skills, but not useful as a tool for spiritual growth. This world is material enough.

Nevertheless I recommend these techniques for anyone who wishes to augment his sexual life with a LTR or wife - sex can indeed become better and better over time with it. The process is actually not that difficult - you do spiritual exercises/meditations and then when having sex focus on energy flowing through you and your partner - the woman does not even has to do it consciously. I found the women rather the recipients of our energy and not vice-versa during sex.

Interesting book on relationships and sex - written by a woman, but she is quite balanced: http://www.amazon.com/On-Breath-Gods-Ari...0923490094

"got suppressed by the prude Americans who stationed there after WWII."

The source of their prudeness is the Christian religion, which casts sex as something evil or sinful. Meanwhile in the ancient religious traditions like buddhist tantra and certain Hindu Male-Female deity sects, the act of sex was considered as divine and even a way to reach God/enlightenment.

I don't want to get too deep into discussion on particular religions, but the whole idea is that we would transcend our own ego, that sex would no longer be about you trying to bust a nut, but rather embodying the Divine Male, Divine Female principle and thus attaining a state of egolessness. That we can use anything to worship the Divine, since everything is already a part of the Divine anyway, and thus we are merely acknowledging the Divine's existence in everything, including the act of sex.

It's a very complex topic and it will have different meanings for different people, according to their different levels of understanding.

Post: #22

If you're dead set on wanting to do TM then this site has a chart with all the mantras they give based on your age/DOB:

http://minet.org/mantras.html

Personally, I prefer Vipassana/Insight meditation in the Mahasi Sayadaw and also Achaan Chah method but some of my friends like the S.N. Goenka style. These are generally taught for free/donation.

Post: #23

(06-11-2014 05:38 AM)boycottamericanwomen Wrote:  "got suppressed by the prude Americans who stationed there after WWII."

Yeah - sounded too much anti-American which is a bit ironic in my case as an expat. You are right - the Puritan Christian bullshit stance on sex made them unable to stand Japanese porn magazines. But they certainly did not mind fucking the legal prostitutes.