Post: #51

I think my form yesterday was fine. But my back is definitely injured somehow... it lets me know in no uncertain terms even after I do relatively light deadlifts.

So I'm going to drop deadlift for now, continue training my lower back (reverse leg-raises, weighted hyper-extensions, SLDL), and in 3 weeks I'll start crossfitting. There's usually a fair amount of deadlift involved in that, and hopefully I'll be able to focus more on proper form and build up a stronger base for the fall, when and if I start deadlifting heavy again.

Post: #52

The most important thing you can do for your deadlift is to keep your back absolutely straight. Some folks have different styles of doing deadlift depending on how long their arms/legs are. Bob Peoples, the guy who pulled over 700 pounds at his peak has a deadlift form where his legs are almost completely straight.

Experiment a bit with the lighter weights and see what works. Keep your ass pooched out and your lower back straight, look forward (not down!) and press away from the floor. You should have correct form.

I don't know about you guys, but I never train to failure when I'm messing around with the heavy weights.

Post: #53

I don't do deadlifts because I've had lower back pain my entire life, and back issues run rampant on both sides of my family. It tears up my back so I stick to short squats and benchpress.

Post: #54

I have also had trouble with deadlifts but squats/bench are no problem. It is possible that this is caused from years of sitting at the computer, as I've greatly improved strength in all other areas of my body except my lower back. Right now I'm wearing one of those elastic waist bands I bought from Amazon that help your stomach and waist structure (it was like 10 bucks), so I'll probably try deadlifts again soon and I think the advice of hiring a trainer to assist with your form is an excellent idea. I'll post my results after getting in touch with my trainer and determine if that helps me.

Post: #55

Reading threads like this makes me nervous about deadlifting heavy weights...which I suppose is good, in a way. I have achieved a 405x5 doing Starting Strength but I'm partly wondering if it is safe/smart to keep going. Should I switch to something else, or lower the weight and do more reps?

Post: #56

I don't know how some of you guys can dead lift so much. I might go a little over 200 lbs and go 10 - 15 reps, and that's it. If I go too high, the muscles in my lower back will slip out and sprain, and ill be truly fucked. I have to be extremely careful as my lower back muscles are always imminent from being pulled. Lower back has always been my problem area. Kind of a catch 22 since I know dead lifts are good for strengthening the lower back.

Post: #57

(05-10-2012 12:32 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  The most important thing you can do for your deadlift is to keep your back absolutely straight. Some folks have different styles of doing deadlift depending on how long their arms/legs are. Bob Peoples, the guy who pulled over 700 pounds at his peak has a deadlift form where his legs are almost completely straight.

Experiment a bit with the lighter weights and see what works. Keep your ass pooched out and your lower back straight, look forward (not down!) and press away from the floor. You should have correct form.

I don't know about you guys, but I never train to failure when I'm messing around with the heavy weights.

This.

I'm not convinced that squats or deads hurt the knees or back or anything when done with proper form. If you EVER feel yourself rounding your back or losing form on the exercise, it's time to stop totally or drop the weight. I've had to do this a few times to tweak deficiencies in form on both.

Experiment a bit with the position of your hands relative to your legs as well. For a while I was doing more sumo style, or keeping my legs way out. Then, recently, I changed to legs closer to together (in the smooth region of typical bars) and my hands at the start of the knurled grips right outside of the legs, shoulder width apart. ALWAYS preload your back, by gradually putting weight in your hands, never jerk that weight up. Jerking weight is when you hurt yourself. If you have to jerk the weight off the ground you are TOO HEAVY. Push your ego out of the way and drop the weight you're trying to lift.

I also ran into a man at the gym last week who was 49 and squatting what I can deadlift (he was doing about 325), whereas I can only squat about 255 if I'm well rested. He even had a torn ACL from sports and showed me the scar. I told him I'd be happy if I was putting that up at his age.

Post: #58

(07-31-2014 10:01 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Reading threads like this makes me nervous about deadlifting heavy weights...which I suppose is good, in a way. I have achieved a 405x5 doing Starting Strength but I'm partly wondering if it is safe/smart to keep going. Should I switch to something else, or lower the weight and do more reps?

That's a solid deadlift man, so maybe be content that you're strong and drop the ego lifts? I wouldn't worry about your back alone but also knees when you get to that kind of weight. I usually just deadlift now at 60-70% max and have no real desire to go heavy.

Post: #59

(07-31-2014 10:31 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  I don't know how some of you guys can dead lift so much. I might go a little over 200 lbs and go 10 - 15 reps, and that's it. If I go too high, the muscles in my lower back will slip out and sprain, and ill be truly fucked. I have to be extremely careful as my lower back muscles are always imminent from being pulled. Lower back has always been my problem area. Kind of a catch 22 since I know dead lifts are good for strengthening the lower back.

Are you squatting? Squatting every day has done wonders for my posture and form in other lifts, because my core is much stronger. I do 3x5 plus warmup sets. Every other day is a heavy day and on my not-heavy days I deload by 50 pounds or so and use the squatting as a warmup for deadlifts or power cleans.

Are you resetting after every rep? When I deadlift, I pick it up, hold for 1-2 seconds, lower it quickly but under control, stand up, and reset before pulling again. On my 1x5 heavy set I might rest 30-45 seconds between pulls. Doing reps without resetting is dangerous, in my opinion, especially if you let the weight hit the floor. And if you don't touch the floor with the weight, you're not getting full ROM unless you're standing on something.

When you're lifting heavy it doesn't take much of a slip in form to tweak the hell out of your back. Given how hard it is to hold proper form when lowering the weight to the floor after each rep (I don't try, really, I just follow the weight down and don't let it smash the floor), I don't see how people can maintain form over 5-8 reps without resetting.

Post: #60

(07-31-2014 10:31 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  I don't know how some of you guys can dead lift so much. I might go a little over 200 lbs and go 10 - 15 reps, and that's it. If I go too high, the muscles in my lower back will slip out and sprain, and ill be truly fucked. I have to be extremely careful as my lower back muscles are always imminent from being pulled. Lower back has always been my problem area. Kind of a catch 22 since I know dead lifts are good for strengthening the lower back.

It's like with any exercise but with time you'll find 200 is very easy.

Didn't read that you are in pain, nvm

Post: #61

Avoid pain. You're not getting paid to hurt yourself, so don't do it. Even if you are getting paid to lift, don't hurt yourself.

Post: #62

Quote:Are you resetting after every rep? When I deadlift, I pick it up, hold for 1-2 seconds, lower it quickly but under control, stand up, and reset before pulling again. On my 1x5 heavy set I might rest 30-45 seconds between pulls. Doing reps without resetting is dangerous, in my opinion, especially if you let the weight hit the floor. And if you don't touch the floor with the weight, you're not getting full ROM unless you're standing on something.

When you're lifting heavy it doesn't take much of a slip in form to tweak the hell out of your back. Given how hard it is to hold proper form when lowering the weight to the floor after each rep (I don't try, really, I just follow the weight down and don't let it smash the floor), I don't see how people can maintain form over 5-8 reps without resetting.

Is that the normal way to deadlift when you're going heavy? I do 1x5 heavy deads once a week and I'll smash out the 5 reps just like squats, with no break in between reps; or maybe a break of a couple of seconds while the weight rests on the floor. I'm not super heavy yet, around 140kg/310lbs, but I don't want to snap my shit up because I'm repping too quickly.

Post: #63

I just started using lifting straps to protect my hands, since they have to be non ripped up/and calloused for work. I was able to lift close to my max without resting between reps which I tend to have to do at high weights. The gripping might have been tiring me out. My form is much better as a result too. The straps don't hold you to the bar since if you dropped the bar the straps would unwind rapidly.

Post: #64

I'm not in pain when doing the lifts, but feel an imminent pull or sprain coming when im doing them. I will do squats occasionally as well. I usually wear those big waist belts that help prevent hernias and back injuries when doing these types of lifts. Even so, im usually stuck doing lighter weight. Wish i could step into the squat cage and crank outs reps like a monster without having to worry so much. I love the feeling that comes when your engaging almost every muscle in your legs and glutes.

Post: #65

@ Arturo Belano

Well there are lots of different schools of thought on resetting the deadlift vs cranking them out, pausing at the bottom or bouncing, etc. I am not an expert, this is just based on what I've read and my own experience:

With less-than-expert form you can seriously hurt yourself by letting your back round on the way down, then ripping the weight back up without settling into proper form.

If you want to do the reps straight, and you're using round plates, control the weight down but don't make an eccentric exercise out of it, pause 1-2 seconds without standing up, roll the bar into position and do another rep. Take the time to reset, it's supposed to be a DEADlift after all, lifting dead weight from the floor. If you bounce, you're going to be weak off the floor.

The reason I pause, stand up, and reset is A) I'm using those faggy 12 sided plates at my university gym and it's impossible to roll them and B) I do my deadlifts at the end of my workout and I'm smoked, so my rest can get kind of long by the time I'm on reps 4 and 5 of my 1x5 heavy set. I do 4-5 warmup sets with maybe 3-5 seconds between reps, just enough to reset my feet.

Anyway it sounds like you're doing it just fine if you're not bouncing and you take the time to reset, or roll the bar into position then pull it. It's the guys at the gym who smash the weights into the ground and rip them back up as fast as they can that are going to end up with lumbar issues.

Post: #66

(08-01-2014 10:57 PM)Arturo Belano Wrote:  

Quote:On my 1x5 heavy set I might rest 30-45 seconds between pulls.

Is that the normal way to deadlift when you're going heavy?

No, it's not normal. What he's calling a 1x5 ought to be called a 5x1. It's not wrong, but you won't see most guys doing reps with 45 second pauses in between them on a five-rep set.

Still, the thing he's doing right is letting the weight reset on the floor. It's supposed to be dead weight when you pull it.

I usually keep my hands set and rest maybe 0.5-1 seconds between reps.

Post: #67

(08-01-2014 11:09 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  I'm not in pain when doing the lifts, but feel an imminent pull or sprain coming when im doing them. I will do squats occasionally as well. I usually wear those big waist belts that help prevent hernias and back injuries when doing these types of lifts. Even so, im usually stuck doing lighter weight. Wish i could step into the squat cage and crank outs reps like a monster without having to worry so much. I love the feeling that comes when your engaging almost every muscle in your legs and glutes.

Well, some further thoughts:

I doubt there's something inherently wrong with you that prevents you lifting heavy. I had lower back issues for years, like from when I got hit by a car in my teens to my mid-late 20s, and since I started doing compound barbell and heavy kettlebell lifts I feel better than ever. Compound lifts fixed my knee and ankle issues too.

My sacral and lower lumbar regions cry like little bitches when I'm done with deadlifts, but I've never actually hurt myself. You might just be feeling normal end-of-workout twinges. That said, if I feel my form slipping at all I deload or stop completely, because getting one or two more reps at the risk of several weeks off lifting because I tweaked my back is a poor gamble.

I can't really help without you posting videos, but I'd say definitely ditch the belt, cut your working weights down to half of what you've been doing, and focus on form. If you can, hook up with a powerlifting coach for instruction. A belt is great for max efforts but you should be doing most of your lifts without one to build your core strength, and belt or not if your form is off you'll hurt yourself. Using a belt all the time is killing your core development.

Are you leaning back at the lockout or standing neutrally? I see lots of guys leaning way back like they're going for a world record after every rep and that is not good for your back at all.

Post: #68

(08-01-2014 11:38 PM)polymath Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 10:57 PM)Arturo Belano Wrote:  

Quote:On my 1x5 heavy set I might rest 30-45 seconds between pulls.

Is that the normal way to deadlift when you're going heavy?

No, it's not normal. What he's calling a 1x5 ought to be called a 5x1. It's not wrong, but you won't see most guys doing reps with 45 second pauses in between them on a five-rep set.

Still, the thing he's doing right is letting the weight reset on the floor. It's supposed to be dead weight when you pull it.

I usually keep my hands set and rest maybe 0.5-1 seconds between reps.

Yeah, just to completely clarify the reason I'm resting so long in my heavy set is because I already did 6 sets of squats, 6 sets of bench, maybe some power cleans, 5 sets of deads warming up, and I'm trying not to black out on my last couple reps. This is what works for me. Not too worried about what most guys do, seeing how 99% of what I see at the gym is full retard.

Post: #69

(03-30-2012 01:10 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 10:10 AM)thekid Wrote:  word, rippetoe's technique is very different from Tate's. Now I am confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

I wouldn't place to much emphasis on what these guys say. I respect them both but if you truly want to learn how to do the compound lifts correctly you absolutely must find a dedicated powerlifting/strength oriented gym and speak to the trainers/owners on perfecting your technique.

You can only teach so much over the internet.

Starting Strength is more diffuse than a few videos and books; They approved gyms, as well as a database of trainers in just about every moderately populated area in the US.

Certified Starting Strength coaches have been thoroughly vetted in their analysis and coaching ability, possibly more than any other training certification process around. Only a small fraction of coaches who attend the Starting Strength Coaches Seminar complete the EXTREMELY RIGOROUS testing process. They're essentially good until proven otherwise.

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/gyms

http://startingstrength.org/index.php/site/coaches

Post: #70

(08-01-2014 11:53 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 11:38 PM)polymath Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 10:57 PM)Arturo Belano Wrote:  

Quote:On my 1x5 heavy set I might rest 30-45 seconds between pulls.

Is that the normal way to deadlift when you're going heavy?

No, it's not normal. What he's calling a 1x5 ought to be called a 5x1. It's not wrong, but you won't see most guys doing reps with 45 second pauses in between them on a five-rep set.

Still, the thing he's doing right is letting the weight reset on the floor. It's supposed to be dead weight when you pull it.

I usually keep my hands set and rest maybe 0.5-1 seconds between reps.

Yeah, just to completely clarify the reason I'm resting so long in my heavy set is because I already did 6 sets of squats, 6 sets of bench, maybe some power cleans, 5 sets of deads warming up, and I'm trying not to black out on my last couple reps. This is what works for me. Not too worried about what most guys do, seeing how 99% of what I see at the gym is full retard.

To be clear, I'm not calling you abnormal, I'm answering the guy's question about whether it's normal to do a deadlift set with 30-45 sec pauses between reps.

You do you, brother.

Post: #71

I know, I just wanted to make reeeaallly sure people weren't taking away bad info from what I wrote. It's easy to omit important details that seem obvious to me.

While I'm at it, I might as well say I'm not really endorsing deadlifting at the end of a heavy workout. I like it, but most people think it's brutal and the result is I have no idea what I can deadlift fresh. As long as the weight keeps going up, that's good enough for me.

Post: #72

I personally despise deadlifting. Hurts with very light weight (135). I figure I can build up back strength without unnecessary pain with other lifts, so I will. I also want to avoid getting huge traps. I don't like that look.

Post: #73

Most guys feel pain in their back deadlifting not because their backs are so fragile or weak. Usually it's because the back is picking up all the work that the abs, glutes and quads arent doing. I often give those guys some quick tests to reveal their strength imbalances e.g hollow body position or superman pushups for abs or pointing out obvious movement patterns caused by weak quads and glutes.

Post: #74

Have you tried standing presses to strengthen your core and body as a supplement to dead lifts?

Post: #75

Those are push presses, not strict OHP, but dang, 315.