Post: #1

I meet quite a few guys from this forum and also other guys all looking to improve their lot with women. I go out with them and actively observe what they do in the real world. One of the biggest mistakes I see guys making is failing to read girls accurately. Now, I understand this is an art that you can really only learn from experience but a lot of guys seem to want to error on the side of hope vs reality. They approach a girl and even though there are signs that the girl is not really attracted to them they hang in there "hoping" that with game and some luck things will turn around. Game cannot convert a girl that has no or very little attraction to you into one that does. And that is decided BEFORE you even open your mouth to spit your killer opener. Attraction is decided subconsciously based on the total image you present to the girl: both how you look and how you carry yourself - your body language.

Krauser has a model where he classifies girls into three categories: No, Maybe, Yes. A NO girl ends the interaction. A Yes girl doesn't really require much game. Where the game is really played is with the Maybe girls. The problem I see a lot of guys have is wanting to classify NO girls as Maybe girls. Most guys seem to believe that if a girl is talking to them she's a Maybe girl. They think that 60% or more of the girls they talk to are Maybe girls and 20% are NO girls. I on the other hand think that 80% of the girls I talk to are NO girls, 15% Maybe girls and 5% Yes girls. I see guys wasting a lot of time talking to girls that are really not into them. Then they get their phone number or facebook and keep doing it! Finally when they ask the girl out and she flakes on them they get upset.

It use to be easy to detect the NO girls but now it's a lot more difficult with all the attention whoring that going on. A lot of girls simply want your attention and will play along to get and keep it. So how do you detect a NO girl today. One test I use that has never failed me is the intimate touch test. I touch a girl in a semi-intimate way e.g. her lower back, her thigh, hold her hand, her face. If I don't get a slight tingle of excitement from her then that means she's not sexually attracted to me and she's a NO girl. It doesn't matter how attracted I am to her or what she's doing otherwise. I will force myself to abort. Most guys will not to do this. Most guys want each approach to succeed and is willing and hoping to overlook a lot of things because of this. The other litmus test with American girls is how many questions she ask me about myself: one question = being polite, two questions = minimal curiosity, three or more questions = Maybe girl (but she still have to pass the touch test).

The more time you waste on girls that are not really attracted to you the less time you will have to find the ones that are. Also when these girls ultimately reject you, you will take a much harder hit because you will be more emotionally invested in them. Most girls you meet, unless you have a wide appeal like a guy with model looks, are going to be NO girls not Maybe girls. The sooner you realize and accept this the sooner you will begin to find your Maybe and Yes girls.

Post: #2

Great post. Stop trying to fuck every girl and focus on girls that want to fuck you.

Post: #3

This is a wise post.

My advice is always to eject if not getting the appropriate signals; life's too short to be trying to turn a tiny percentage of the NOs into MAYBEs and then YESs.

It's worth missing out on this small number of potential conversions.

Post: #4

Post: #5

Thanks. There are other reasons that can make a girl a NO girl too. A girl may be attracted to you but not willing to act on it. For example, she may be married, have a boyfriend she is serious about, concerned about what her friends will think, lives in a different city, etc. Attraction is not enough. Unless she's drunk and doesn't care about what she's doing then she will consider other factors too. But it's much more difficult to know about these factors unless she tells you them. Attraction on the other hand is much easier to detect and harder to fake.

Post: #6

My terminology is mow through them.

I don't understand the mentality of "breaking the horse" with far off maybe girls even.

Guys must get a rush from the challenge of conversion.

It hurts my inner game to be dancing like a clown for an unreceptive audience.

The numbers are pretty solid out there for day game especially.

20 approaches per bang for an expert
50 approaches per bang for intermediate
100 approaches per bang for a newbie

Night game may cut those numbers in half if you know how to target.

If you think of it all as a numbers game looking for Yes girls and strong maybe you will have more positive energy towards women and more energy to up your value in life.

Post: #7

It is true that there are Yes/No/Maybe girls but I don't believe that attraction is underlying cause. If you are a high-value man, women are programmed to be attracted to you, ALL women. Survival + reproduction, the basic needs are the same for all females, there are no girls with special and different needs. If you are the tribe leader, then every girl is programmed to want your value, evolution would have quickly weeded out the women who sought out things other than basic survival and reproduction traits.

It is the same as an attractive woman. If you take a hot Brazilian model, 100% of men from all walks of life and cultures will be subconsciously attracted to her. Every single one. Whether they admit that to themselves, other people, or act on that attraction is a different story all together.

As has been mentioned before, attraction is a choice, but acting on it is not. If you are high value, pretty much every girl in the world will be attracted to you as long as you can convey that value. Remember that value comes in many forms, not just looks and non-verbal elements, but also attitude and other things that can be displayed from game. Essentially, if the girl sees your value she WILL be attracted, so your goal in the set should be to convey as much of it as possible.

Female attraction is fickle, it is as passing as a man checking out an ass and forgetting it a couple seconds after it is gone. But, I will add that, regardless of this, the girl must still be attracted to you. Different girls have different attraction thresholds that are based on the quality they have had before, meaning an alpha widow's attraction threshold will be higher than a virgin's. If you are a high-value man with game it is safe to assume you will have enough value for her to be attracted to you, less than 1% of the male population has actual game.

What creates Yes/No/Maybe girls is the girls' circumstances. The distinction is in her forebrain, not her hindbrain. Is she in a relationship? How willing is she to cheat? Is she open to meeting men through cold approach? Is she in the mood for a man/woman interaction? What is her code of values regarding men? Is she R-selected, therefore closed to a relationship yet not in the mood right this minute for a quick fuck? Did she just come out of a relationship, either putting her on the rebound or making her bitter and closed to men?

These are the considerations that create the distinction between Yes/No/Maybe. If Brad Pitt ran cold-approach game, he would still deal with Yes/No/Maybe, probably with more red lights than green. Game is about managing what we CAN control, but remember that there are two sides to a social interaction and many things on the girl's side that we have literally no control over. Game is a technological science, but we only have access to half of the machine. If we could operate the machine in its entirety we could literally have every single girl.

Post: #8

(08-28-2014 11:11 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Thanks. There are other reasons that can make a girl a NO girl too. A girl may be attracted to you but not willing to act on it. For example, she may be married, have a boyfriend she is serious about, concerned about what her friends will think, lives in a different city, etc. Attraction is not enough. Unless she's drunk and doesn't care about what she's doing then she will consider other factors too. But it's much more difficult to know about these factors unless she tells you them. Attraction on the other hand is much easier to detect and harder to fake.

Absolutely.

There are too many women around to waste ones time on these girls.

Some guys get too caught up in the ego trip of snaring them though without realising how much time and energy they ultimately waste, in my opinion.

Post: #9

Nomad keeps killing it with game truths

Post: #10

Let me give you an example from my recent Boston trip. I picked up two girls on the street while I was looking for something to eat. I invited them to join us and we all ended up eating at this pizza joint. Everything was going pretty good UNTIL the girl I was interested in said in an off-handed manner that she was into dark meat (black guys). She was joking about what kind of meat/food she liked but I knew what she meant. I confirmed it by showing her a pic of my good looking black friend and she lit up like a Christmas tree. My friend on the other hand never let that fazed him and kept going. He was entertain them and even trying to setup a date for the next day. But for me, it was over. She was a NO girl for me. Why? No one is ever going to mistake me for a big, black guy. I literally quit talking to them and started reading a book on my phone until my friend finished eating.

Post: #11

(08-28-2014 11:24 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Let me give you an example from my recent Boston trip. I picked up two girls on the street while I was looking for something to eat. I invited them to join us and we all ended up eating at this pizza joint. Everything was going pretty good UNTIL the girl I was interested in said in an off-handed manner that she was into dark meat (black guys). She was joking about what kind of meat/food she liked but I knew what she meant. I confirmed it by showing her a pic of my good looking black friend and she lit up like a Christmas tree. My friend on the other hand never let that fazed him and kept going. He was entertain them and even trying to setup a date for the next day. But for me, it was over. She was a NO girl for me. Why? No one is ever going to mistake me for a big, black guy. I literally quit talking to them and started reading a book on my phone until my friend finished eating.

That is like saying that just because a guy has a self-stated preference for Latinas, he would be indifferent if a Russian 9 strutted by in her high heels.

Don't try to read too much into these things as it can lead to autorejection and losing some good leads. If a girl brushes me off, flakes, or fails to put out with two dates tops, she is a no girl. Everything else is a yes girl, at least from the perspective of how I run my game.

I would never stop an interaction out of a red-light-suspicion. Many girls can be lukewarm, if not downright hostile, and you still bang them. Check out Roosh's first bang with the Romanian MILF in Poosy Paradise. She brutally rejected his sexual advances maybe 10 times until she succumbed to the lay.

Post: #12

@OnlyMarry You are welcome to play the odds and busting down resistance. But in my, experience, the average guy out there does not have anywhere close to the DESIRE that Roosh has to score flags and get laid and that includes me. For me, it's all about ROI: return on investment. I want to invest the least amount of time and energy for the best possible results. That means managing and minimizing risk effectively. The same as in the stock market. Picking up women is not my job but unfortunately it's a necessary evil.

Post: #13

(08-28-2014 11:41 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @OnlyMarry You are welcome to play the odds and busting down resistance. But in my, experience, the average guy out there does not have anywhere close to the DESIRE that Roosh has to score flags and get laid and that includes me. For me, it's all about ROI: return on investment. I want to invest the least amount of time and energy for the best possible results.

I understand your position, which could perhaps be applicable to setting up dates, but if you find yourself on a date with a lukewarm girl, it makes sense to go the distance and push as hard as you possibly can for the lay.

Post: #14

If I had nothing better to do I would agree. If I did then I would disagree. I usually have better things to do.

Post: #15

Now I've done this, pulling a girls hair, slapping their ass, grabbing their hip, or face. (Most of the time this is with girls I sort of know and I'm using kino.

After using the forum, I'm very aware of "sexual harassment" and "assault" aka unwanted advances.

What are your thoughts regarding this ? What are ways to counter this ? Have you ever ran into this ? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Post: #16

Nomad, did you learn this lesson while in Boston?

Post: #17

@Kaotic I guess it depends on the girl and how old she is. I can't imagine this would work too well with girls over 22. Personally, my touch is always gradual. I start from the outside and move inwards. And no, I have never had an issue with girls feeling I am too sexually aggressive because I am not.

@frenchie Not really. I was just reminded about this behavior from some guys in Boston and made a mental note to write up something about it.

Post: #18

Along the same lines. there is a very easy, fast test that a guy named 60yearsofchallenge came up with

it's called "Mutual hand caressing" - if you try to pet girls hand that does not like you she will not pet it back. it's very physical, very primitive. He does as his opener pretty much

If you think about it, this is preverbal humanoid game. All the way before we had speech. think about it. it's wise

https://www.google.com/search?q=60+years...+caressing

Post: #19

This is also my version of the "boner" test. Since, unlike Roosh, I don't have his powerful boner, I rarely will get a boner from just touching a girl but I will get a sexual reaction from touching a girl I am really attracted to. So this works both ways. Interestingly enough, I have touched girls I thought was really good looking but then not felt much of anything. So both you or the girl can fail this test and if either of you do - time to move on.

Post: #20

(08-28-2014 10:26 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  So how do you detect a NO girl today. One test I use that has never failed me is the intimate touch test. I touch a girl in a semi-intimate way e.g. her lower back, her thigh, hold her hand, her face. If I don't get a slight tingle of excitement from her then that means she's not sexually attracted to me and she's a NO girl.

GLL has a good post about this:
http://www.goodlookingloser.com/more/arc...ing-game//

If you want to get laid your inner game should not be "I want to get this girl to like me" but "I'm going to see if she's DTF." You find out if she's DTF by touching her and seeing how she responds.

The problem is too many guys focus on how to "game" a lukewarm girl when instead they should accept that it's a often a numbers game and just move on to screening the next one.

Post: #21

Nomad I agree with your post completely.
That being said, I still like to "power through" the NO girls just for the sake of experience as well as improving my ability to sense and detect the body language of NO girls.

I think once I get to a high enough level of game, I will start ejecting from the NO sets immediately. But for the time being I will take the experience over the pride.

Post: #22

Yup, nice post. I like this renewed emphasis on 'efficiency of game' and ROI.
Open, test, move on, repeat. Life is short.

Post: #23

Good assumption there . Insisting on a chick to get her to like you forcefully is lame . It shows your neediness and beta status . A man has to choose from a place of abundance . A no girl is a no girl period . Nobody should sweat and waste their breath for bitches like these . Next time any of you guys get caught up in a similar situation just go like this . "Girl ,I know you're hot and I'm glad that you're hot , but if you're not productive you don't have values in my life". Chicks have this power to assess your standards whether they're high or not .Avoid this and keep them always high.

Post: #24

What are some tells you use?

Some I have:
- When her pussy is pointing towards you, green light.
- Questions about me, when a girl asks me what I'm doing later, that's a green light.
- Shit tests believe it or not.

Any more?

Post: #25

(08-28-2014 03:15 PM)Euphoric_Breeze Wrote:  Good assumption there . Insisting on a chick to get her to like you forcefully is lame . It shows your neediness and beta status . A man has to choose from a place of abundance . A no girl is a no girl period . Nobody should sweat and waste their breath for bitches like these . Next time any of you guys get caught up in a similar situation just go like this . "Girl ,I know you're hot and I'm glad that you're hot , but if you're not productive you don't have values in my life". Chicks have this power to assess your standards whether they're high or not .Avoid this and keep them always high.

I think it's an issue of ego that creates this situation. If you have to 'win' everytime, you'll burn out. You have to learn to deal with loss. Hell, even Michael Jordan lost games. He didn't like it, but he could deal with it and push on. Having humility when it comes to chicks save you alot of time and grief.

While it's not good in other aspects of life, "thinking with your dick" is important to getting laid in my opinion. Worrying about trying to get a girl to like you isn't thinking with your dick, it's ego validation. Recognizing that a girl won't fuck you then proceeding on to one that will is thinking with your dick. When you think with your dick, and you get rejected, it's a quick disappointment that you didn't get your release then you're on to try with a new one. When you don't, that's when you get butthurt.