Post: #1

What do the successful biz guys think about all this passion talk as it relates to business?

All you hear is "passion, be passionate, follow your passion, it's all about passion." It's like a damn buzz word.

And even more confusing/misleading is this statement: "if you do something you're passionate about, the money will follow (and you'll enjoy the process in the meantime)."

I'm at the point in my business where I don't really enjoy my work per se; I'd much rather spend my days reading, training jiu jitsu and banging Thai chicks.

But what I do really enjoy is the feeling of solving a problem, learning something new and exercising an ever-growing competence that, as far as I know, is unrivaled in my little niche.

Back when I had no money and started doing my current consulting work, I was thrilled to do anything and get paid for it. Now that it's blown up and money is good, I find myself overcome with ennui.

When I ask myself what am I really passionate about? I'd probably say writing songs.

But I also know from my previous career as a musician that passion doesn't mean shit if you're not getting paid. All the passion in the world won't lift you up when you're broke as a joke. At least that's how I felt.

Experienced biz guys: please share your thoughts.

Post: #2

I don't have many experience in business work (yet) but I think I can give some insight in regards to all these "passion" statements. Now I can't remember where I found this perspective online but I do remember the bare concept.To summarize, it went something like:

"Successful businessmen are successful because they identified a common problem or envisioned a solution and were passionate about achieving that end goal."

I see a lot of people confuse being passionate about something means it has to be a hobby or something you enjoy. I find being passionate as a means of putting in extra effort and hard work to achieve a certain outcome that YOU want.

I hope this would be of some help, it may not be an ideal answer, but sometimes seeing another's perspective can help open up your mind in a rut.

Post: #3

It's the business version of 'just be yourself'.

In my experience, 'follow your passion' is relevant to the 0.01% of entrepreneurs that make it in one of the glamorous industries. For every Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg there's ten thousand men carving out market share in extremely lucrative, tedious industries; Oil & Gas, Raw Materials, Finance etc.

If you do anything enough times you'll begin to lose enthusiasm. Roosh has discussed his own struggles multiple times and he bangs broads for a living.

Get your drive from something bigger. Something that far exceeds any tiredness, doubt or pain you feel in the moment. Something that ignites the fire in your heart and propels you forward.

I told an ex-girlfriend my business idea once. She laughed in my face and spouted 'that'll never work, don't be stupid'. A few days later we split.

A year later I sold my share in that same business for a very healthy sum.

That laugh drove me through more all nighters than you can ever imagine. Every time things got hard I'd hear that horrendous laugh in my head and I'd focus every fibre of my being on proving her wrong.

My point is that your passion has to come from something internal. Only you know what that is.

Post: #4

^ I find it strange and somehow sad that negative renforcement often drives human achievement such as sports stars or rappers stating:

"this is to prove all the haters and doubters wrong"

Instead of:

"i love this game" or "i love this artform"

I think many of the best at anything get there to prove others that dissed them in their past as wrong which I find strange.

Post: #5

(09-16-2014 02:15 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  ^ I find it strange and somehow sad that negative renforcement often drives human achievement such as sports stars or rappers stating:

"this is to prove all the haters and doubters wrong"

Instead of:

"i love this game" or "i love this artform"

I think many of the best at anything get there to prove others that dissed them in their past as wrong which I find strange.

I'm no psychologist, just speaking from past experience.

Interestingly though, Maslow's hierarchy of needs states that the need for esteem comes before that of self-actualisation. According to his research, then, respect of others is deemed more important by the human brain than creativity (or love of the art form).

Post: #6

Very interesting thanks for sharing that, food for thought.

Post: #7

All I can say is: Try paying your bills with your passion.



Keep something that brings in money to pay your bills, let your passion's skill develop, save money, then make your passion your #1 thing once it can bring enough money to pay your bills.

Post: #8

I agree passion is a huge buzzword these days. I think a better way to think is passion with practicality. Not saying to give up on your dreams but realize not everyone can do what they love, sometimes you gotta just pay the bills. Also, maybe work a practical gig while exploring on the side a business you are passionate about.

I think we also have to realize even if your in an industry your passionate about your actual job you may not be. For example maybe I love kitesurfing so I open up a kitesurfing shop. I enjoy kitesurfing though not necessarily working retail or giving lessons to newbies on how to fly a kite so though I'm passionate about kitesurfing my job isn't to kitesurf it's to sell boards or give lessons which I may not be as trhilled about. I guess though at least I get to work with and talk about a sport or activity I love even if the job isn't what I would like to be doing.

I do agree if you can find a way to make a living doing something you love or even sorta like or don't mind you'll be happier and more successful. A prefect examle in my mind is blogging. I see many people go after high paying keywords like mesothelioma or insurance but of course aren't passionate about it so sure you can pump out a few articles but its gonna dry up. On the flip side if you like motorcycles maybe keywords are lower paying but its a topic you love and stay current on so there's never a shortage of material to write about, youc an really connect and engage with your readers, etc, and for that reason I think you'll write better write more and in the long run make more money than strictly going after dollars.

One other thing I really wanted to touch on with the practicality thing. I live in Chicago and see so many kids going to columbia which is a school for like arts, music producing, movie directing, video games, animation, etc. It's expensive as hell, a bachelors degree probably set you back at least 50k if not over 100k. I see kids going for music producing, animation, etc. In my opnion going after those jobs is basically like trying to be a professional athlete, a few will make it and the vast majority will end up doing AV for some school or church making nothing and having huge student loan debts to pay back. I think it would be much smarter and you would probably have more success just tring to get some internships or working in studios and getting a chance to learn the industry from within and while working and getting paid vs shellingout tens of thousands for a classroom education.

I started my own business, it's in an industry I know about and sort of find interesting but I wouldn't say its my passion.

As far as motivation, I would say mine is security, financial security knowing I can weather anything life throws at me because I worked hard and prepared as well as financial independence. One other motivator is kinda like you guys said the haters. I was kind of a fuckup when I was younger and a late bloomer in the sense I was in my mid 20's beore I stopped getting in trouble, held down consistant jobs, etc. Kinda wanna prove myself and also really striving for a day when my father is actually proud of me.

Post: #9

I agree with most of what has been said so far.

For me, the 'follow your passion' idea is a symptom of a facebook-addicted, selfie-taking, 'I found myself' by-backpacking-round the-world generation.

Narcissistic people believe the world should stop and take notice of what they are passionate about. They look inwards for what they like rather than looking outwards for what other people want.

Two good sources regarding this myth of follow your passion.

1. Billionaire Mark Cuban “'Follow Your Passion' is easily the worst advice you could ever give or get"

http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-...ur-effort/

2. MJ Demarco, author of 'The Millionaire Fast Lane'

He has a very strong opinion on this this. Paraphrasing, the world/market does not give a shit about your passion. People just want their problems solved and needs met.

Post: #10

I'm all for "doing what you love, and loving what you do," but not everyone can do that.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."

-Atlas Shrugged

The problem here is that everyone has accepted the frame that your job is your life. This is something "the man" has convinced us to believe in order to make us happy little worker drones.

Your job is not your life. Make no mistake.

Your job is part of your life, a very important part, but still a part.

Even if you work 9-5....that leaves you 16 hours in the day to start building the life you want for yourself.

This forum loves to rip 9-5....but for most of the family men I know in the South, they love it! They leave at five, see their kids, work out, eat, and go to sleep. Their job security is not threatened. They don't have to work overtime. Their families get discount insurance in most cases.

At the end of the day, it's all about building the life you want for yourself. I work massive hours and get jerked out of town at a moments notice. I enjoy it. I am building a financial future for myself I'm 22, this is what I need to be doing...working for the future, even if I'm not "following my passion."

If money wasn't an issue, I would sleep till 10, read for a few hours, lift, play basketball, eat at a fine restuarant, go out until 2, and repeat. How can I make enough money to pay for that without working! Even ROOSH, our forums namesake, has released how much money he makes. Yes, I'd like to own my own business...but right now...I don't know what I would do. So what do I do in the meantime? Work a corporate job and SAVE money for when I open my own business. That's what we should be doing right now if you're young in America.

Our jobs should not be the only source of happiness we have. That's another problem with the majority of people today: outside of their shit jobs, their free time is occupied by mindless TV and drinking shitty beer. Nobody had hobbies or activities or goals they're working for. Fuck that...work your job...and spend the other 16 hours enjoying life.

Post: #11

Good links el conquistador. everyone should read "the millionaire next door."

Post: #12

I used to be very passionate about playing poker. Until I made very good money and it became a job.
I used be very passionate about writing. Until I made good money and it became a job.

Now I avoid both. Mentally I am not able to work in these fields anymore, even though it would be the easiest option (Poker not anymore the best, but this is another story).

I am with you, Vincent. I could be developing myself and banging Thai girls 24/7. I also love solving problems and learning new things and that is why I choose to be an entrepreneur. Everything gets old, after you have figured it out. And then you can just outsource it and move on with new challenges. I am not always passionate about the niche and the exact work, but the goal to find the best solution for every problem and the knowledge that this will eventually lead to a very sweat lifestyle is enough motivation to crawl out of bed in the morning and to decline new girls in the evening.

Well, till now. I would love to hear the opinion of more experienced members.

Post: #13

(09-16-2014 09:55 PM)libertad1312 Wrote:  I used to be very passionate about playing poker. Until I made very good money and it became a job.
I used be very passionate about writing. Until I made good money and it became a job.

This is what I have been thinking.
If you turn your biggest passion into a job, for how long can you be passionate about it? Eventually you will overdose on your passion and you maybe will lose it.

This is not very job related but it's passion related.
Travelling was my biggest passion and I think it still is. I used to dream for several years every day to do a long trip around the world without any time limit.
I had no idea how I could pull it off, but it was my big dream.
Well, I worked and struggled my ass off and finally I did it.

The first 6 months on my trip I was still "high" on traveling since it was my passion.
But after two years it didn't give me so much pleasure like it used to.
I don't know about you guys but I adapt myself very easily into new situations and environments. I eventually ended up tired from traveling. It was too easy, too comfortable, almost impossible to get excited anymore.

Maybe because there was no struggle. For me struggling is key to enjoy the sweeter fruits of life. If everything is handed to me on a plate, how long can I enjoy it without getting bored?

However. Now I'm home and I'm going to take a break from traveling.
My main focus and number one priority is to make money.

This adventure about trying to make as much money as possible is greater than any travel adventure I can think of.

I'm back on square one but with different goals.
Last time my big dream was to travel the world for a long time.
At the time,that dream felt very distant and highly unlikely to happen.
But I struggled and in the end I pulled it off.

Now I want to get my finances in order.
It feels very distant and highly unlikely to happen.
But I will struggle. It's a great adventure.

Anyway, I would like to hear from members who have followed their true passion and turned it into a job. Did you lose that passion or not?

Post: #14

Chaos, you need to write a blog and tell us all about your crazy (in a good way) and fun stories.

Post: #15

Not all passions will make you money. You still need to ascertain what would be profitable and what wouldn't.

It really depends on what you want. Being passionate in your business will help you ride out the long hours. You're essentially married.

If you just want to make enough to survive in order to do something else, you don't really need to be passionate about how you earn. It is a means to an end as they say.

Another thing you need to think about, it sounds like many here are more entrepreneurial compared to a business person.

There is a difference.

Running a business isn't fun, but creating products, selling those products and the creativity that goes with it is a blast.

Post: #16

(09-17-2014 12:39 AM)Chaos Wrote:  Anyway, I would like to hear from members who have followed their true passion and turned it into a job. Did you lose that passion or not?

When I was a teenager I was obsessed with music. So I decided to study classical singing in Uni. Then I sang and taught music professionally for almost 3 years.

It. SUCKED.

I started to hate music. I began to dread practicing for hours every day. I literally worked 3 music jobs and still could barely pay my bills in a relatively cheap city (Jacksonville, Florida).

It was after 3 years of working harder than I'd ever worked before towards my passion that I decided to quit everything and move across the country to California and start over.

My rationale at the time was "I will always love music and want to play it, but I want to do it on MY terms, not because I have to." And I figured creating a good business with passive income assets was the best way to get the freedom to do anything on my own terms, including music.

Now I'm finding out that even though business is a very exciting world, it takes a lot of work and a long time to build something worthwhile. My conclusion is that as humans we have to come to terms with the fact that nothing's ever going to feel 100% "right". There's always an opportunity cost for doing anything.

Something Roosh wrote a while back has always stuck with me that went something like "if you can't be happy now, you'll never be."

Post: #17

Follow your pasion is complete nonsense.

My passion is binging on TV shows, reading books and sleeping alot. But unless I figure out a way to get paid for that I will have to focus on the things that actually make me money.

Even if you can make money with one of your hobbies do you really wanna do it? You really wanna be a professional weightlifter or video gamer? I imagine that would drain all the fun out of those recreational activities.

Post: #18

(09-17-2014 02:26 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Running a business isn't fun, but creating products, selling those products and the creativity that goes with it is a blast.

This is something I haven't yet done,but I'm striving for it.
I can imagine when that happens, at least in the beginning you must feel good as fuck.
The high satisfaction level you are enjoying must be addictive like hell.

This is the main reason I'm working for myself. To stay motivated. All the sweat I put out and all the sweet fruits I will reap is for me only and not for anyone else.
I don't like the idea of making someone else rich. That's payed slavery.
I rather do my own stuff with less income than being someones bitch and having a higher income.
Of course there are exceptions but you get what I'm saying.

(09-17-2014 02:27 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:39 AM)Chaos Wrote:  Anyway, I would like to hear from members who have followed their true passion and turned it into a job. Did you lose that passion or not?

Now I'm finding out that even though business is a very exciting world, it takes a lot of work and a long time to build something worthwhile. My conclusion is that as humans we have to come to terms with the fact that nothing's ever going to feel 100% "right". There's always an opportunity cost for doing anything.

Something Roosh wrote a while back has always stuck with me that went something like "if you can't be happy now, you'll never be."

I agree. There will never be a 100% right feeling, exactly like when you hesitate to approach a hot girl. There will never be a 100% right situation.

But what I do trust is my gut feeling. If I follow my gut feeling I can usually stay away from ending up in bad and unwanted situations. It's like an inner warning mechanism. The danger is when my brain start to persuade my gut feeling, which often happens.
I could throw some workrelated examples but they are so long stories.
So here is one for a few weeks ago in Bangkok.

Example: In my horny drunkeness late at night I brought a girl to my room.
From the beginning my gut feeling told me that stay away from that girl, not worth it. She will only stir up some drama and can by no means be trusted. Well, I ignored my gut feeling and guess what happened. Things were good until we got in my room and she unleashed a hellish drama about this and that and how bad her life is and parents are sick and bla bla. I knew that she probably was a semipro but my brain convinced me to go for it anyway. However nothing really happened and I kicked out that girl. But if I listened to my gut feeling all that drama had been avoided.

What I'm saying is that gut feeling is probably useful in business aswell.
I understand that we sometimes need to gamble, but anyway.

What Roosh said about "if you can't be happy now, you will never be" is a slightly negative statement for my book.

We have all had our good and bad moments in our lives. Things goes wrong when you start to expect that life will only be a joyride without any problems and it will be fun all the time.
Guess what? Life's a bitch.
Good morning and welcome to the real world.

Have you ever thought that happiness might be a feminime trait?

Girls always babble about happy this and happy that. They seem to enjoy some sort of higher happiness than men do. You rarely see men go crazy like women in terms of happiness and excitement?

If you stop a random girl in the street and ask her what she want in life, she will most likely say something in terms of "I want to be happy".

Stop a man and what will he say?
Probably something in line with power,money,accomplishment,respect,success.

Men are strugglers and have always been strugglers.We want to get shit done. We want to be strong. We want to be successful. We want that people respect us. We want money, we want power and so on.
Not many would say : "I want to be happy".
Because it's not important.

I think happiness is something different nowadays then what it used to be.
Life is a struggle. But somehow modern society has brainwashed us to the extent that happiness is the one and only rule and guideline in life. I don't buy that. I have accomplished nothing when I have been "happy".

Dissatisfaction and anger have helped me getting things done.

Being HAPPY is not important. The sooner you can accept it,the better it is.
Try to aim for satisfaction instead of happiness.

Post: #19

The passion talk is just another leftist post-modernity BS that is right up there with fat acceptance.

I bought into the whole thing in my beta days and now regret it everyday.

I guess its acceptable if your passion means "making a shit ton of money and banging hot girls"

I think the problem is that our passion and the means to achieve them are simply not aligned. If you wanna bang hot chick all the time and have luxurious experience you need a job that can support such lifestyle, but that kind of job rarely allows you enough "passion"

Im working as an intern for the 2nd richest man in France and I see now that making a shit ton of money and living an exclusive lifestyle that belongs to the 1% of the population has nothing to do with passion. All the businesses deal, scams, going to court, take-over, control and shit. You have to be a fucking sadist and masochist to really enjoy that thing. On the bright side you have a private jet, retreat island and bang whoever you might happen to fancy.

The executives here did tell me though, that you do need to have a passion while working in order to keep you from going insane. It doesnt has to be in the job. For some its the rush of a deal negotiation. Others its the crunching numbers and watching $ flow from one hand to the other.

People who are experienced in life always tell me to not mix your job with your passion. I love aikido and I think I could do it for life. My beloved Sensei dissuaded me "I d rather you remain just a practitioner and love the art, than becoming a teacher and hating it". Because then you have to deal with the darker side of the job that make you hate it in the end: lazy students, admin tasks, maintaining a dojo etc.

Post: #20

Great insights here.

I'm current reading a book on launching a small business called the $100 Startup, the first chapter is devoted to this topic.

The author makes the argument for a "convergence" point between your interests and innate skills (your "passion") and what other people value.

It's like a ven diagram- two interlocking circles; one is your passion(s), the other represents what other people want/need. The area of intersection represents a business opportunity.

A lot of people don't get this, they just blindly do what they love and wonder why they can't make ends meet.

Example: I used to know this guy a coworker of mine dated. Total clown. He played accordion in some kind of hipster folk-rock band. He had no other real skills and didn't bring any real money until getting a part time retail job. Even then, the gf was paying the rent, most of the bills, etc.

Obviously there exists a niche market of accordion players- he's one of them. If he had maybe created an info product- say and ebook or instructional DVD on accordion playing- that would have been a better investment of time than playing every crappy bar gig that was offered.

I'm seeing more and more examples in real life and through research of people who successfully followed their "passion" by doing it that way- working on a project/field that is maybe somewhat related to their passion as well as useful to others.

Post: #21

I believe in this statement 100%: "if you do something you're passionate about, the money will follow (and you'll enjoy the process in the meantime)."

To me, having passion for your business is mission critical to success. Yes, it sounds cheesy. Yes, it may sound like the equivalent of "just be yourself", but it isn't.

This thread is timely as I just started a new business venture. Over the past year I have been doing a lot of "soul searching" on what to do next. I have found my passion for my current business dwindling some, and as such my instincts have been ringing that it is time for change.

During the process, I found an opportunity where I think I could build something quite big (let's call this path#1 ). I have all the right contacts for it. I understand the industry. I could fund entirely by myself and when more capital is required, I could raise all that I ever need. The numbers are pretty exciting. I think I have what it takes to take such an endeavor into the $100mm revenue range. The sexiest part is that I think this business has the potential to grow/scale pretty quickly. The problem: I don't have a true passion for it. On one hand, the business is right in my wheel house. On the other hand, the business is so far away from my skill set that I'd be dead in the water if key personnel were to quit on me.

Whenever I make a major change, I tend to poll a number of people I know before I make the jump off. When I would discuss the above business with people, not one person questioned whether or not it would be a success. It just made a lot of sense. The business case was clear. And, given my prior business history, pretty much everyone I asked about this business wanted to know if they could invest.

But, something just didn't feel right despite how excited about the numbers and potential of such a business. So, I did a double take and started thinking about businesses I've thought about in the past that got me excited (path #2). I did a double take on the same group...and everyone of them said that I just seemed so much more passionate about path #2 over path #1.

I'm now headed down path #2 because I know from experience that it is the passion that will get me through the first 2 or 3 years, where I might just find myself starting at a wall wondering "am I crazy, why am I making things so hard on myself".

I really don't like to throw out numbers, but I think it is relevant here. My current business has been consistently allowing for me to take home seven figures each year for several years (and will continue to do so for a while). It doesn't exactly suck. And I don't know what happened, but I feel like my passion got up and walked out the door. I didn't think I'd ever get to a place where I could feel lost when making such good coin. Worse yet, it is not like I can call my buddies from home or college and say "yeah dudes, I've been ringing the register so hard lately, but now I don't know what to do with myself". The key point here: if you don't have passion for your business, you will find yourself lost in your business even if you are making good money.

Finally, please don't read this as me recommending me to blindly follow your passions. Notice how I mentioned that I spent a year trying to find something that makes sense before deciding to make the jump to actually starting. You have to find something that makes good business sense that you also have passion about. It is at this intersection where you will enjoy the ride of the business (and, yes, the money will follow...as cheesy as that sounds).

Post: #22

I thought the mark cuban piece was excellent. I think there's a reason there's work and play. IF you can do something you enjoy great but realize the reason there is work and play is because work isn't supposed to be your leisure activity it's supposed to be work. I also think he brought up a good point follow your strenghts and what you spend time doing. It's not like your going to spend time doing something you hate so if you follow your time and effort chances are going to lead you to your passion. Granted it may not lead you towards wakeboarding for a career you might like but at the very least it will lead you towards something you have an interest in, something you have some skill in and something you apparently enjoy spending your time doing.

Post: #23

(09-16-2014 11:53 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  What do the successful biz guys think about all this passion talk as it relates to business?

All you hear is "passion, be passionate, follow your passion, it's all about passion." It's like a damn buzz word.

And even more confusing/misleading is this statement: "if you do something you're passionate about, the money will follow (and you'll enjoy the process in the meantime)."

I'm at the point in my business where I don't really enjoy my work per se; I'd much rather spend my days reading, training jiu jitsu and banging Thai chicks.

But what I do really enjoy is the feeling of solving a problem, learning something new and exercising an ever-growing competence that, as far as I know, is unrivaled in my little niche.

Back when I had no money and started doing my current consulting work, I was thrilled to do anything and get paid for it. Now that it's blown up and money is good, I find myself overcome with ennui.

When I ask myself what am I really passionate about? I'd probably say writing songs.

But I also know from my previous career as a musician that passion doesn't mean shit if you're not getting paid. All the passion in the world won't lift you up when you're broke as a joke. At least that's how I felt.

Experienced biz guys: please share your thoughts.

It's a spiritual concept applied to business. It's highly effective. Both in the marketing of the idea (i.e., "The Secret" and "the law of attraction") and in its application to other products / services. This is basically what I do.

Post: #24

One of my good friends went to music engineering school, or whatever it is called, at an expensive school in Arizona. He followed his passion and moved to LA and got to work with bands like Queens of the Stone Age for three years.....for no money. The older studio engineers were not retiring and bands don't spend much time in rented studios now like they did in the past. Most have their own engineers and heir own studios and record labels don't pay for them to fuck off and party for months on end while using a recording studio like in the past. So he rarely got paid gigs and his prospects of moving up in the industry were very bleak.

He had to work full time at a grocery store and full time at the recording studio while following his passion.

In the end he quit dead broke, well, actually way in debt from recording school, and moved back up to northern California to grow weed.

He isn't passionate about growing weed, but it's interesting and he enjoys it and the payoff is good at the end of the year. I think he has enough passion for what he does now that he doesn't hate waking up in the morning like most 9-5ers. He has also been talking about picking up a part time gig as a sound engineer at a local venue so he can stay in the music game and do what he really loves, but do it on his own terms and not have to worry about it having to pay the bills.

So in the end I think most people need to find something that they have SOME passion for, and is interesting enough that they enjoy doing it more than they hate doing it.

Post: #25

This isn't an argument for or against the concept, but I find it interesting that everyone here treats "follow your passion" like it's still a cliche. It's not. Rejection and ridicule of this idea has become the new cliche and the new mainstream prescription.

Anyone who reads a lot of business books should know that, and I know for a fact that some of the guys in this thread do, so I'm not sure what gives.

Just perhaps something to consider before trashing the idea completely.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling