Post: #201

Quote:Ukraine is like a wild horse.You have to react to tame it and have it under control.Poland is like a domestic pony always pleasant.

Post: #202

I love the information, but you guys are obviously have been away from the U.S. too long to understand what "difficult" or "easy" is.

The quotes of "oh no she took a few hours or a half day to get back to me", or in Moscow 1 in 5 approaches on a beautiful woman would work out.

You gotta be kidding me. Here girls will wait days to get back. They will say they will call explicitly on a day and not call. It may be 40+ approaches to get 1 date. Many of the 7+ always and I mean always have a BF.

I feel like if I was there for a few months and learned some Russian, and the game there it would be like sexual Disneyland compared to here.

Post: #203

(09-24-2014 06:39 AM)Roosh Wrote:  In the long run he will probably get better quality in Ukraine, but that's not guaranteed. I just don't see foreign guys with the top girls (8 and above) even though there are so many of them. The same in Poland, though there aren't many top girls there.

Ukraine has a lot of undiscovered gems, that will make almost any man very happy - as the quality and the beauty is way way higher than
western europe or US:

Mikolayv
Zaporoja
Dnepr
Poltava

Also, these are safe cities, I do not recommend going to Luhansk or Donetsk now with the political situation of that region

Post: #204

^^^ Do you plan on living in those cities for the long term? Because that's what it takes to get the highest quality in Ukraine. And the most livable cities (Odessa, Kiev, and Lvov) have a lot of skeptical women.

Post: #205

Also it's misleading to frame Ukraine/Russia in terms of "It just takes 4 dates to seal it, but the quality is high."

The problem is that just because you have a first date with a girl you like, there is no guarantee you'll get dates 2 and 3 and so on in order to get the bang. Can you hold a girl's interest for what may turn out to be several weeks without sex... while she is most likely dating other guys?

I wouldn't mind waiting 3 dates in general, but you get a lot of girls who drop off after date 1. So I always invite a girl to my apartment on the first date, even though this may turn off some girls. Because if I don't push for sex and then never see her again, I'll be sore for not trying.

Bottom line is waiting for sex takes away a man's power and gives it to the girl. The game is insertion as quickly as possible, because after sex you're home free.

Post: #206

(09-25-2014 10:52 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Also it's misleading to frame Ukraine/Russia in terms of "It just takes 4 dates to seal it, but the quality is high." ....
Bottom line is waiting for sex takes away a man's power and gives it to the girl. The game is insertion as quickly as possible, because after sex you're home free.

I know a older guy (48) who was living in Kiev with only average income who was able to date 20 year old hottie a 8 - 9 (she works as a dancer part time in clubs sometimes). She made him wait nearly a month for sex assuming 1-2 dates a week. "Daddy issues" are typically usually the case when a more attractive younger girl is interested much older guy & it is not sponsor deal.

Post: #207

^^^ one thing about my dates is that I kept them cheap, short and sweet typically, and bailed out early if I wasn't feeling any 'chemistry'. Usually 2-3 hour walks somewhere around town with maybe a coffee or one drink during the week, so in general very inexpensive. I double booked a lot and did routines like daygaming from 4-5:30, then a 6-8 date, followed by an 8-10 date etc.

I also enjoyed the conversation with all these girls and talking to them about the situation in Ukraine, so I always got something out of it. So when you hear 3-4+ 'dates' it's not like it's all night affairs with expensive drinks/appetizers/dinners etc like some guys end up doing back home. I cut bait quick if it's not working, she was a Ukrainian SIF, etc.

And frankly I'll admit that with some of these 'borderline' girls I met I scheduled follow up dates to practice my Russian mostly and to give it one more chance to see if they passed the boner test.

@Travesty you are right it is generally better over there but that's why I left! No man should have to put up with their stupid games but I guess that's where we are at back home these days unfortunately.

(09-25-2014 10:52 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Also it's misleading to frame Ukraine/Russia in terms of "It just takes 4 dates to seal it, but the quality is high."

The problem is that just because you have a first date with a girl you like, there is no guarantee you'll get dates 2 and 3 and so on in order to get the bang. Can you hold a girl's interest for what may turn out to be several weeks without sex... while she is most likely dating other guys?

This was really true for me. I had several 'one and done' dates with the better looking girls I got digits off and also 4 dates with two particular girls who were nice mid-7s but would not even kiss me despite repeated attempts and who dragged out the dates over 4-5 weeks, so every time I felt like I was starting from scratch. I thought they were interested at first but as it dragged on became unsure of their motives for continuing to go out with me and it messed up my game calibration a bit. They were always fairly responsive but I think in retrospect 'on the fence' a bit re me and had other guys in the background so I eventually gave up. (fyi one was 24 and the other 25 - one thing I need to add to this whole thing is that I'm mid-40s now and usually was 15-20 years older than all girls I was chasing).

Post: #208

(09-25-2014 10:52 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I wouldn't mind waiting 3 dates in general, but you get a lot of girls who drop off after date 1. So I always invite a girl to my apartment on the first date, even though this may turn off some girls. Because if I don't push for sex and then never see her again, I'll be sore for not trying.

Do you tell them to come to your house when you set the meeting?

I also usually try to get them to my house on the first date but I always use an excuse like I forgot something or I have to wait for someone.

I banged 3 girls in one month on the first date like that in Ukraine recently but I couldn't keep them in my rotation for long. They developed some sort of buyer's remorse or ASD. However, I also never tried to do anything social or romantic with them

Post: #209

(09-25-2014 07:31 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  I love the information, but you guys are obviously have been away from the U.S. too long to understand what "difficult" or "easy" is.

The quotes of "oh no she took a few hours or a half day to get back to me", or in Moscow 1 in 5 approaches on a beautiful woman would work out.

You gotta be kidding me. Here girls will wait days to get back. They will say they will call explicitly on a day and not call. It may be 40+ approaches to get 1 date. Many of the 7+ always and I mean always have a BF.

I feel like if I was there for a few months and learned some Russian, and the game there it would be like sexual Disneyland compared to here.

@Travesty444, I live in arguably one of the worst cities in N. America for gaming (Washington, DC) and agree with you about the toughness of gaming in some parts of USA however just to say that UA is easy is pure "travesty" (had to get that one in).
In all honesty there are many problems with UA girls as Akula and Roosh have mentioned, one HUGE problem that no one has fully mentioned is the general wariness of foreigners, especially since many of the girls there (especially the older one's who go online looking for love) seem to have had a few bad experiences with foreign guys at some point of their lives. I don't look like a typical "sex tourist" at all and definitely am not one as I usually look for mini-relationships, I can pass for a local, and speak near fluent Russian and even I got shit tested constantly. Just the number of questions the girls ask...like "why are you here?", "how long will you be here?", "where do you work?", "where's your place?", "how can you travel so much?", "you have an accent, where are you from?", "that jacket/purse/sweater looks nice (again mini red flag girls suggesting gifts and checking if the guy is beta enough to buy them these)", "you must have a girlfriend back home, no?" > I tell them no, then 30 minutes later they ask the same question. I look/comment on a girl on the street, they immediately get jealous, and so on... Anyways, the mind games can get draining and more often than not sometimes I get caught in a lie or mess up with words (especially when gaming in Russian) so it is tough sledding over there.

On a personal note I wish I had a flexible job where I could spend at least 2 month's in UA, then I believe it would be possible to jump through just about any bitch shield a girl could put up and get some of those ice-princesses who require 4+ dates. Alas 95% of the guys who visit UA will end up visiting it for too short of a time (under 2 weeks) to really do any better than a couple ons's with <7 girls (btw, i find it funny how most guys who visit UA claim that they bang 7+ girls...in all reality for the local population they are probably 6's but compared to Western Europe/USA they obviously go up at least a point in their minds).

Post: #210

In my experience, getting a second date in the FSU is (most of the time at least, not always) a sign that you're halfway in. The first date is nothing more than a test. After the first date the girl will decide whether you have a place or not in her life. Her mindset is fixed on the long-term, so there must be either a financial or emotional reason for her to stay, sex is not enough as it often is in the West.

In the FSU I focus enormously on deep connection, it is the core of my game. I try to manufacture a kind of "soulmate experience" (while still remaining alpha) that, in my experience, brings about good rates. That, and heavy filtering (I move towards sex with persistence on the second date, allowing until max. date 4 for it to happen, with constant persistance, then filter under failure.) This is big point in favour of focusing on the top tier, as it is significantly easier to create a strong connection with a girl you truly like.

Also, this loss of girls is just a different manifestation of the usual rates you would see anywhere else. In the West, an experienced player normally isn't fucking more than 50-60% of girls he goes on dates with. In the FSU it is about the same, you will only fuck half. Just that, in the West, you lose them faster when you try to escalate. The FSU usually brings more time-wasting and leads that are only good in appearance. It is a matter of plate-spinning, these countries require a strong brute-force strategy. You must have a lot of leads to assure statistical success.

The process is actually quite laid back. About half of dates will lead nowhere, these are numbers that should be accepted. But, the girls are very nice, a date to nowhere is still a pleasure to go on, making the process sufferable.

When it comes to getting high quality, the process is the same: brute force. If you approach 20 of them, and you have good connection game, you SHOULD get at least one of them. Otherwise something is wrong with your strategy. Ukraine is not a quantity haven, it is a quality haven. Men go there for quality, for quantity other places are much better, so I recommend focusing solely on the top tier. The key is approaching a lot of them, and getting rejected by a lot of them, and you can't do that if you are wasting time dating 7s. This is difficult not because the girls think themselves better than you, but because this brute force strategy requires a lot of work, sweat and balls. Nothing good comes free.

Post: #211

(09-25-2014 06:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:Ukraine is like a wild horse.You have to react to tame it and have it under control.Poland is like a domestic pony always pleasant.

Post: #212

(09-26-2014 02:38 AM)OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:  In my experience, getting a second date in the FSU is (most of the time at least, not always) a sign that you're halfway in. The first date is nothing more than a test.

That was definitely my experience in Russia. In Ukraine not so much, due to reasons we've all explained above. I didn't feel as calibrated in Kiev but if I had more time I would have figured it out I guess. I'm planning on going back in a few weeks so we'll see what happens then.

Also agree that for the most parts these dates were all fun and often a pleasure. Girls like men and need them, and men like women and also realize they need them too. That's clearly not the case back home (where women are told they don't need a man, while men seem to be constantly told they need to be a good guy/white knight and need a woman and/or to 'settle down', which is completely incongruent, but that's for another thread).

When I said it was a grind it was more due to the fact that the top tier girls in Kiev seemed unattainable after a certain point, and thus I just stopped fighting it and took my standards down a notch. But almost all my dates were a good time and the women very pleasant.

(09-25-2014 08:42 PM)TripleG Wrote:  Alas 95% of the guys who visit UA will end up visiting it for too short of a time (under 2 weeks) to really do any better than a couple ons's with <7 girls (btw, i find it funny how most guys who visit UA claim that they bang 7+ girls...in all reality for the local population they are probably 6's but compared to Western Europe/USA they obviously go up at least a point in their minds).

The ratings scales are definitely skewed and for good reason. Finding slim, reasonably attractive and feminine women in the Anglosphere is very difficult in most parts as we all know, and the # of fat or obese women is off the charts, whereas they are almost non-existent in most other parts of the world. In my humble opinion that bumps up most EE women up at least a notch right off the bat, and in certain cities I'd say the #s of true mid-6s to mid 7s is upwards of 30-40%. Those girls would probably be rated mid 7s and 8s back home, but that's none of my business.

Post: #213

(09-25-2014 10:48 AM)Roosh Wrote:  ^^^ Do you plan on living in those cities for the long term? Because that's what it takes to get the highest quality in Ukraine. And the most livable cities (Odessa, Kiev, and Lvov) have a lot of skeptical women.

I am not doing more than 5 approaches per week.

I go usually for girls in 7 - 8 range.

If I see a 9, I do not try, because she is probably spoiled and will not have a good attitude if we ever get to have a relationship.

7 - 8 range ukrainian girls make me happy.

They are far better than anything I could ever dream to get in the feminist Western world....

Post: #214

I'm thinking the same thing, get a 7 or 8 that will be a good girlfriend /wife /mother to children. Ukrainian 9s are too high maintenance.

Better still, dont get involved with a Ukrainian women at all.

Post: #215

(09-26-2014 06:52 AM)internations Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 10:48 AM)Roosh Wrote:  ^^^ Do you plan on living in those cities for the long term? Because that's what it takes to get the highest quality in Ukraine. And the most livable cities (Odessa, Kiev, and Lvov) have a lot of skeptical women.

I am not doing more than 5 approaches per week.

I go usually for girls in 7 - 8 range.

If I see a 9, I do not try, because she is probably spoiled and will not have a good attitude if we ever get to have a relationship.

7 - 8 range ukrainian girls make me happy.

They are far better than anything I could ever dream to get in the feminist Western world....

You are admitting defeat even before the battle has started! Personally for my ego it is better to be rejected by a 9 than to go up to a 6 and get the cold shoulder. Also, remember that some of those "9s" in EE do not know their true value (unlike most girls in the west). You'd be surprised how many of these beauties live at home, are underemployed, have had only a boyfriend or two in their lives, and you might be the first foreign "love tourist" who has approached them.

Post: #216

(09-26-2014 09:24 PM)TripleG Wrote:  You are admitting defeat even before the battle has started! Personally for my ego it is better to be rejected by a 9 than to go up to a 6 and get the cold shoulder. Also, remember that some of those "9s" in EE do not know their true value (unlike most girls in the west). You'd be surprised how many of these beauties live at home, are underemployed, have had only a boyfriend or two in their lives, and you might be the first foreign "love tourist" who has approached them.

The 9s in the FSU are often sweeter than the 7s and 8s.

Post: #217

First of 3 videos I have that show Odessa:

Post: #218

^Any videos of the nightlife in Odessa? That is what I am curious about.

Post: #219

I shot some on my phone but it's so dark you can't make out anything.

Post: #220

Roosh, that was very good melodic background music in the video. Did you compose?

Post: #221

The video has a nostalgic feel. Kind of what of what I felt for Brazil years ago. Caetano Veloso and the film Meu Tio Matou um Cara come to mind. The music has little to do with Ukraine imo but feelings are another matter.

Post: #222

wow, the ukrainian girls from Odessa are indeed very cute. I'm thinking of trying out Odessa too soon

Post: #223

checkout what happened here in Kharkiv, the video at the bottom shows this statue of lenin coming down. kind of sad, it was a nice statue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...es-crisis/

Post: #224

(09-30-2014 09:04 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  Roosh, that was very good melodic background music in the video. Did you compose?

No I got it from the Youtube audio library. I left the name in the comments.

Post: #225

(10-01-2014 06:02 AM)William Windsor Wrote:  checkout what happened here in Kharkiv, the video at the bottom shows this statue of lenin coming down. kind of sad, it was a nice statue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worl...es-crisis/

Same time in Odessa the Right Sector beat up a politician they didn't like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kCgsnn1bj0

Considering that these events happened at the same time in different cities, my guess is they were pre-planned and coordinated.