Post: #1

A few Fridays ago I went out to drink and catch up with a couple of buddies at the Dupont Circle/M Street area in DC. While we all know DC sucks, this was something else. The weather was perfect, and it was September in DC so all the college girls and young pros should be back in town. However, it wasn't so much of a sausage fest as it was deserted. At 10:30 it felt like no one was around. I've been to other
neighborhoods like U St. and felt the same way in the last year, but never quite
like that Friday. I went out for drinks to catch up with a friend on the Courthouse to
Ballston stretch in North Arlington area and experienced the same thing. Even new places were half empty.

In the past, I would have just have thought it was the usual case of DC sucking,
but after this, I wonder if this is happening elsewhere in North America. Is it?
I don't mean every place being a sausage fest on the weekend - that was established years ago. I mean every place feeling like a ghost town. No one appears to be going out anymore and it really does seem that the internet is doing to night life what it did to shopping malls. Chicks can get their attention online and guys are wising up and not bothering to go out.

I have noticed in the last year that DC area night spots have started to have to offer much better happy hour specials, especially on Friday and Saturday night. It used to be $5 bottle of Miller Lite until 6. Now it's $4 rail drinks until 8 and nice $4 bottles of beer all evening. It would appear that they have at least noticed that the traffic has fallen despite the DC economy doing well.

While forum members know the score, do the owners of these places know what is going on? Because if I was them, unless I was investing in a fast casual joint that sells breakfast sandwiches and salads to office drones or a high end steak house that I knew would bring in corporate types using their pre-tax dollar expense accounts, I wouldn't invest a cent in the hospitality business these days. Yet I still see new mid-range restaurants opening in new locations. I have no idea how they are going to make it.

Also, what is it like in other countries? Are owners there more or less savvy
that if they want the dudes paying $7 for a beer, they better have the ladies to
justify it? Are places getting quiet in countries other than the US & possibly Canada.

Post: #2

I think, to a degree, all bar and club owners are aware of the SMP. That's why you have things like 'Ladys Night', and 'girls drink free until whenever' and things like that: They know if they can draw out the women to their scene, the guys will follow.

I'll go out this weekend and report back here if the places around here are just as dead.

Post: #3

They're aware of the fact that they are in business to make money, they don't give a fuck about you getting laid.

Men have finally realized that the ROI from clubs is too low to be worth the time; all those years of going out and coming back home with an empty wallet and a full ball sack will help you arrive at such a conclusion.

Post: #4

Girls bringing dudes to a bar is common knowledge. You don't have to read manosphere stuff to know this. Any bartender can tell you that hot women bring in customers.

I remember reading somewhere, forgot the source, that the free drinks on "Ladies night" are marked down as a loss leader.

Additionally, a lot of places overseas have different nightlife vibes. There are plenty of countries where the bar scene isn't like it is in America.

I'm in Latin America right now and clubbing is more of a social circle thing. You can go out and places are packed, but everyone is hanging out with their friends.

As far as the death of the nightclub, I doubt that will ever really happen. Nightlife has been big since the 1920's. It won't go anywhere. Things might change and whatnot, but I really doubt that we'll see a world without bars and clubs.

Post: #5

(10-18-2014 09:54 AM)RXB Wrote:  Things might change and whatnot, but I really doubt that we'll see a world without bars and clubs.

Let's also not forget that people are nostalgic.

How many men are wearing suits, and shaving with safety and straight razors now because it is "old fashioned" and that sort of thing is trendy, now?

Bars may fall off after a while, but will soon come back because kids want to go do what grandpa did, you know?

Hell, it's why I started going to a barber for a haircut (and still do).

Post: #6

(10-18-2014 09:54 AM)RXB Wrote:  Girls bringing dudes to a bar is common knowledge. You don't have to read manosphere stuff to know this. Any bartender can tell you that hot women bring in customers.

I remember reading somewhere, forgot the source, that the free drinks on "Ladies night" are marked down as a loss leader.

Additionally, a lot of places overseas have different nightlife vibes. There are plenty of countries where the bar scene isn't like it is in America.

I'm in Latin America right now and clubbing is more of a social circle thing. You can go out and places are packed, but everyone is hanging out with their friends.

As far as the death of the nightclub, I doubt that will ever really happen. Nightlife has been big since the 1920's. It won't go anywhere. Things might change and whatnot, but I really doubt that we'll see a world without bars and clubs.

Oh, I'm not saying that they will get wiped out completely. There are still shopping malls, just a lot less. My feeling is that it night life will contract, but not go extinct. I guess what I am more curious about are bar tenders/owners aware of the current decline and why it is happening.

Post: #7

It's not just online dating. Netflix is much bigger in its impact than all the dating sites combined. Netflix is way cheaper, healthier and more convenient than a night out.

"Only people can make people happy." - Steve Wynn. People are getting their people fix through other means, through social media, through just hanging out with friends.

Also, drinks have gotten ridiculously expensive. I found this article on Las Vegas pools that listed how much a rum and coke cost at each pool, about $5 and change on average. This was in '03 or '04, if I remember correctly. I have no idea what it is now, but I imagine it's at least $10, probably $12-16. That's about 11% inflation per year, for ten years! I could see a 40% run up in price, but 250-350%?

In my city, liquor licenses are expensive thanks to a bunch of old grouchy rich boring boomers. That makes drinks pricey. Plus the inability to charge men more makes everyone on happier - girls don't like spending money and guys don't like sausage fests.

That said, there are still bars raking it in. Here in LA, the Houston brothers run a very successful string of bars. They all offer an experience, a burlesque show, a smoking section, and a strong theme. They aren't just a room with a tap. Same with Vegas - people don't spend five hours in a car to wait in line for a drink. You can't just rely on people going out and hopefully choosing your bar - you have to pull people in with a spectacle, people who would not go out otherwise. The days of merely splitting up the party crowd are over, nightlufe venues have to deliver real value.

It's like the cinema. Used to be, something like a third of the population would go out and see a movie in theaters every weekend. Nowadays, people don't decide to see a movie and then which movie to see, they decide if there are any movies worth seeing, and then they go out if there are. Nightlife is trending in the same direction.

It's not like people are dropping out of nightlife entirely; they are just doing it less frequently.

Also, restaurants can't really be grouped with bars and clubs.

Post: #8

I've kind of fallen off the bar scene in the past couple years, sure I'll go out for a friends bday or every now and again but its not a every friday and saturday thing like it used to be. For me I was thinking it was just I'm a few yeras older, I've been there done that and its a wate of money which I realize now. Being that I'm a bit out of the loop however I was wondering if bars are still as hot with the 20 something crowd as back when I was 21 some years back. I think with online dating and stuff there's less need to go out every weekend looking to meet people. Heck lots of times i didn't even wanna drink or go out I just wanted to meet chicks and the bar at that time was the place to do that.

Post: #9

It's not you, I went out to a few bars here in Boston on Thursday and Friday nights. Warm weather too. All the venues had a light amount of guests.

Going to a bar is expensive with the drinks and food being way over priced. Right now, I think inflation has made made eating out and clubbing too expensive. Those bar and club owners are going to get a slap in the face pretty soon since no one sees the point in paying a 20$ cover to not get laid.

Post: #10

I wish this was the case, but here in Los Angeles clubs are as full as ever on the weeeknds. . . and of course its a sausage fest. so maybe people in DC are wising up? Or maybe DC is just THAT BAD that they've reach end game status levels over there. Although I can't really imagine anything worse than L.A. but . . .yeah.

Post: #11

(10-18-2014 11:04 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  I wish this was the case, but here in Los Angeles clubs are as full as ever on the weeeknds. . . and of course its a sausage fest. so maybe people in DC are wising up? Or maybe DC is just THAT BAD that they've reach end game status levels over there. Although I can't really imagine anything worse than L.A. but . . .yeah.

From all of the replies, it may just be a DC thing. The 2008 credit crunch gutted all of the non-profits that hired useless hot chicks, and it may simply be that DC men have wised up. Since most don't stay here for more than a few years, they may have decided to bide their time until they can go to greener pastures.

Post: #12

In the old days when my pops was in the business he made money on the drinks. Admission cheap or free to get people in..especially women.

Today places make money on both but I think it might be a bit a subsidizing. A large amount of club goers spend NADA on drinks these days.

They often go to dance or are the designated drivers. In the old days they ordered the sprites and club soda. So the venues started charging a lot for that. Now they just don't drink.

I fit in this category but I noticed it a few yrs ago. Me and the wife went out to a club and majority of people were avoiding the bar area.

That means you guys that do drink are going to pay A LOT more. Supply and demand!

IMHO it is part of the reason lounges have become so popular. They get the people in who drink expensive drinks like a club but drink a lot like in a pub and less money spent on club expenses(DJ'S, sound systems, bouncers).

Post: #13

Over the last 5 years here in the UK's second city, Friday nightlife has pretty much disappeared.

10 years ago Thursday/Friday/Saturday were all very busy.

The GFC changed everything.

Post: #14

It's also the time of year. Even if it's a lovely fall day, people tend to starting settling in for the winter. Fall is actually a great time for online dating, provided you can stomach it.

Post: #15

Friday is the weakest night in DC. Most young professionals in DC would rather just stay in on Friday after a long work week.

I would love to own a bar in DC. There are bars that Roosh and Roissy were going to back in the early 2000s that are still open today!

We all know how women are obsessed with facebook and Instagram these days. You can't take photos and attention whore at home. They'll always be women out on Saturday nights celebrating birthdays and bachelorette parties.

Then you got droves of bored IT professionals from burbs and army veterans who need a place a to drink on the weekends. If you own a bar near 14th/U, Dupont or the White house you are set for life.

Here is a list of the top grossing Restaurants in the US:
http://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/...dependents

Old Ebbit grill is #3, Hamilton is #15.

Post: #16

(10-18-2014 12:12 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Over the last 5 years here in the UK's second city, Friday nightlife has pretty much disappeared.

10 years ago Thursday/Friday/Saturday were all very busy.

The GFC changed everything.

Are you on about Birmingham or Manchester? Those two are always raving and I've been recently.

You can tell a place is doing poorly, such as a bar or pub, when they're charging you to get in. It screams of desperation to get as much out of someone coming in than you normally would.

One bar started doing this in a city which has busy nightlife and it stopped being getting much custom.

Post: #17

(10-18-2014 09:34 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  A few Fridays ago I went out to drink and catch up with a couple of buddies at the Dupont Circle/M Street area in DC. While we all know DC sucks, this was something else. The weather was perfect, and it was September in DC so all the college girls and young pros should be back in town. However, it wasn't so much of a sausage fest as it was deserted. At 10:30 it felt like no one was around. I've been to other
neighborhoods like U St. and felt the same way in the last year, but never quite
like that Friday. I went out for drinks to catch up with a friend on the Courthouse to
Ballston stretch in North Arlington area and experienced the same thing. Even new places were half empty.

In the past, I would have just have thought it was the usual case of DC sucking,
but after this, I wonder if this is happening elsewhere in North America. Is it?
I don't mean every place being a sausage fest on the weekend - that was established years ago. I mean every place feeling like a ghost town. No one appears to be going out anymore and it really does seem that the internet is doing to night life what it did to shopping malls. Chicks can get their attention online and guys are wising up and not bothering to go out.

I have noticed in the last year that DC area night spots have started to have to offer much better happy hour specials, especially on Friday and Saturday night. It used to be $5 bottle of Miller Lite until 6. Now it's $4 rail drinks until 8 and nice $4 bottles of beer all evening. It would appear that they have at least noticed that the traffic has fallen despite the DC economy doing well.

While forum members know the score, do the owners of these places know what is going on? Because if I was them, unless I was investing in a fast casual joint that sells breakfast sandwiches and salads to office drones or a high end steak house that I knew would bring in corporate types using their pre-tax dollar expense accounts, I wouldn't invest a cent in the hospitality business these days. Yet I still see new mid-range restaurants opening in new locations. I have no idea how they are going to make it.

Also, what is it like in other countries? Are owners there more or less savvy
that if they want the dudes paying $7 for a beer, they better have the ladies to
justify it? Are places getting quiet in countries other than the US & possibly Canada.

I've long wondered when the restaurant industry will reach its saturation point.

Over the past 10 years or so there's been a massive explosion of restaurant openings. Many of them close, for a variety of reasons.

Simply put, restaurants need to be busy just to break even. They need a full dining room, and in most cases that's not enough and they'll have to do at least a single turn (meaning filling the dining room up, those guests leave, and then they fill up the dining room again)

I can't predict what will happen but you do see more and more chefs and operators going for super casual restaurants. You've got fine dining chefs opening fried chicken trucks. High rents, high costs, and ridiculous bureaucratic nonsense makes owning a restaurant damn near impossible. You need a permit just to wipe your own ass.

An interesting dynamic at play here is that good restaurants typically aren't frequented by the rich; they're frequented by middle class that are living on credit. Rich people have shitty taste and probably have their own chefs. It's easy to think that the hospitality industry will be alive and well even as the income gap grows by the year, but this isn't the case. You'll have a smattering of elite, fine dining restaurants, and super casual eateries. Frankly I'm fine with this.

Vietnam was particularly inspiring to me as far as food and restaurants go. You've got thousands of little concrete storefronts that in many cases doubles as the family's home, and they specialize in a few dishes, people sit on the sidewalk on preschool seats and tables, the food is delicious and it's dirt cheap. You can eat a full meal for $1-$4. Only problem is you wouldn't see this happening in the U.S. anytime soon thanks to miles of red tape. Those Vietnamese restaurants would never pass any health or building inspection here.

So the challenge becomes, how cheap can you go and still offer a good product? That's something I'm personally inspired by, and that's the future. Daniel Patterson is a very famous chef in S.F., the guy has several restaurants and 2 Michelin stars to his name. His latest venture? Making fast food with high quality ingredients. Danny Meyer is the undisputed king of hospitality in NYC, making a name for himself with Union Square Cafe and Grammercy Tavern. But what is he most famous for, and where does he make his real money? Shake Shack.

Post: #18

How often do you guys go out to eat? The price to eat out is just too expensive here in my town. It took some time, but if you have good ingredients, a good recipe, and toss nary to the wind when it comes to spices and you'll be cooking as good as many restaurant chefs.

Cooking isn't hard. Fitting in prep into your life schedule is. Once you get it, going out seems pointless.

Post: #19

Women are getting dumber by the minute. Listen to their dumb ass excuses on okcupid or POF. They are stuck home with kids or just going to sit home and watch netflix. They are sooo fat and ugly now they are too ashamed to go to a club and be laughed at.

Post: #20

People aren't socializing at bars and restaurants because
- the internet is better for entertainment and socializing with people you already know
- there's much more emphasis on already talking to the same people

In general, women have always been averse to meeting random guys for safety reasons - but technology and cultural changes allow them to indulge their typical incestual social circle jerking off.

Interestingly, a lot of guys (not most) are interested in the idea of going out and meeting new people - but are made to feel ashamed or don't know how to connect with their fellow human beings.

I don't know how much old media that you guys consume, but consider this picture.

   

Dude on the end is arm in arm WITH ANOTHER MAN...oh no, he might have caught "the gay".

Of course no one would have thought back in those days. It's silly to think like that now - but outside of sports - how often do you have physical contact with another male friend?

You probably don't. If you go see a movie with your buddies there's probably at least one seat between you.

I wouldn't be surprised if this picture would get trolled



So to sum up
- all people are getting their socialization needs "met" by new media
- women have always been afraid of meeting new people, and technology facilitates those feelings
- Camaraderie and brotherhood of yesteryear would be seen as homosexual behavior today.

Those things lead to less people going out to clubs and restaurants, less civic engagement, more atomization...

WIA

Post: #21

(10-18-2014 12:51 PM)Kish Wrote:  Friday is the weakest night in DC. Most young professionals in DC would rather just stay in on Friday after a long work week.

I would love to own a bar in DC. There are bars that Roosh and Roissy were going to back in the early 2000s that are still open today!

We all know how women are obsessed with facebook and Instagram these days. You can't take photos and attention whore at home. They'll always be women out on Saturday nights celebrating birthdays and bachelorette parties.

Then you got droves of bored IT professionals from burbs and army veterans who need a place a to drink on the weekends. If you own a bar near 14th/U, Dupont or the White house you are set for life.

Here is a list of the top grossing Restaurants in the US:
http://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/...dependents

Old Ebbit grill is #3, Hamilton is #15.

Probably wouldn't be a bad investment. There is almost NO turnover of bars and clubs in DC, it's crazy. ESL, Madhatter, Sign of the Whale...those places have been there for DECADES.

The only time a major established place goes down when there's there is a shooting or stabbing i.e., Fur closing and reopening as Rosebar, or District in Adams Morgan. (District is supposed to be reopening soon)

Post: #22

(10-18-2014 02:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  People aren't socializing at bars and restaurants because
- the internet is better for entertainment and socializing with people you already know
- there's much more emphasis on already talking to the same people

I think the fact that bars have become where people go to play with their phones more than socialize is already having some noticeable effects. Places are advertising free chargers for iPhones and retarded shit like that.

Quote:- women have always been afraid of meeting new people, and technology facilitates those feelings

Women have been much more ready to check out of nightlife altogether than men. That's why we're hearing so many complaints about sausagefests on the forum. A night with a box of wine, Netflix, and their cats seems much better than getting hit on by some random "creepy" guys. There's already a strong strain of general paranoia that women get in American culture where they think every guy is some kind of rapist or child molester (thanks Nancy Grace), so it becomes very easy for them to just sit inside in front of the TV all the time where it's safe, because the outside world is just so fucking dangerous. The only Americunts who are still willing to "risk their lives" by going out at night are huge attention whores who have no intention of sucking your dick at the end of the night.

Post: #23

(10-18-2014 02:50 PM)NovaVirtu Wrote:  Probably wouldn't be a bad investment. There is almost NO turnover of bars and clubs in DC, it's crazy. ESL, Madhatter, Sign of the Whale... those places have been there for DECADES.

The only time a major established place goes down when there's there is a shooting or stabbing i.e., Fur closing and reopening as Rosebar, or District in Adams Morgan. (District is supposed to be reopening soon)