(09-26-2011 09:18 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote: @ Athlone - I've always wanted to run through Kingston to give it a shot...I have met some bad Jamaican Mamis in Toronto and my boy went for Carnival last May and came up on some stunning women who loved Black American Men...He said it's no comparison to Trini Carnival but I would still like to check it out one of these days. I used to date a beautiful Chinese-Jamaican girl from Kingston in ATL but she moved back and is married to a rich dude of her social class back in Kingston now. The wedding pictures had tons of talent...I gotta make it out there but that's not a place to roll solo without having someone in the know on the ground IMO. Care to post a Kingston Data Sheet or offer any insight?
I'll tell you what I do know.
I can't speak for how the clubs in Kingston are or anything like that. Aside from the fact that I'm simply not familiar with them, they are largely useless for this discussion.
The thing that is largely lost when it comes to discussions about jamaica is how conservative the society can be. Everybody has an image of the island as this insanely laid back, lax, carefree dont-give-a-fuck type of place, and that vibe does exist, but there is a lot more to it. Jamaicans are more religious than Americans or Europeans are, on average, and that shows in how they hook up. The island is not a great place for SNL.
Another important thing to internalize when thinking about Jamaican society is class. The nation is very much divided by class, and they don't mix very much. All of them have defined rules, and rarely are they broken or overlapped.
This is going to be very important for you to know, because the girls you're going to want will almost uniformly come from the nation's upper classes, not unlike your Chinese-Jamaican girlfriend. Getting to them is not very easy. I will focus on them for this post.
Some of their traits:
1. They ALL know each other. You've heard the phrase "Its a small world"? Jamaica is even smaller. It is just a little island. Everyone who is important knows everyone else who is important. It is inevitable-they almost all go to the same 2-3 schools and events and they rarely come into contact with anyone else.
My mother knows dozens of ministers, big businessmen, and other high level professionals. Her facebook is pretty much a who's who in Jamaica. Why? If she isn't related to them, then she went to school with them(or their relatives). And if she didn't go to school with them, then she taught them (or my grandfather did). And if none of those things apply, then chances are she knows someone who knows a given person and can get in touch that way.
Everyone knows everyone.
See the first girl
in this post from the 10 thread? She did second runner up at Miss Jamaica 3-4 years ago. I don't know her personally, but I can. My aunt is acquainted, and her best friend is even closer. If I really wanted to meet girls like her, it would take a trip to the island and just a couple of calls.
If i were just an ordinary foreigner, I'd have
zero chance.
Why is this important to you? The girls you want are going to be a part of this world. You can chase lower level chicks-some of them are pretty cute (Jamaican obesity rate is about half of the black american one, which makes a big difference-nice bodies, even in rural areas) and they would be more down to get with a foreigner, but they won't be as hot on average and getting to them would be more dangerous (
Jamaican crime isn't a joke).
All of the island's glamour models(the beauty queens especially) are in it. They'll move in a very small circle. If you aren't in that segment of society, you aren't fucking with them, even if they like you. Forget SNL, and forget the club-girls are going there to hang out with people they already know, and then maybe get acquainted with a few folks they don't know who are already vetted as part of their world (read: people their friends know).
If they were to break the rules, everyone else would know about it in short order, and they won't have that. Unless they are outside of the country, they will not take the risk.
Social Circle Game is King Here.
2. Class counts. Often times, even being rich and famous isn't enough to get you in with these girls if you don't have the carriage and "breeding" down properly.
I'll give you an anecdote. When my mother was in college, her and her friends were regularly hit on by Bob Marley and his crew. I am being completely serious.
He and his crew frequently hung out on UWI-Mona campus and tried to mack on girls. He had a very serious thing for my mother's best friend, an Indo-Jamaican.
Picture this scenario happening anywhere in the West. Famous guy and his friends show up to hit on group of girls. You already know how it likely ends-the famous guy almost certainly will hit the girl of his choice, even if she plays a little hard to get at first. The other girls will likely get together with the rest of his crew. Celebrities here live out this scenario all the time. Heck, I've seen it first hand with college football players.
In this scenario, however, my mother's best friend wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with this guy. My mother wasn't having it either, and the rest of her friend group also abstained. Why?
Class. Bob Marley, for all of his fame, was lower class, a poor guy. He didn't have the "breeding", so it wasn't going to work. Simple as that. Even if she'd liked him it probably wouldn't have happened.
Dude was short as hell too, for the record.
Nowadays, you'll see some upper class girls inverting this dynamic and hooking up with sports stars(ex: Luton Shelton, who knocked up the girl I mentioned earlier in this message, or Asafa Powell) with enough notoriety who aren't a part of their class, but the cultural stigma is still there in the majority of cases. If you want to get in with them, you had better look the part.
3. Old-school courtship. I already mentioned Jamaica's conservatism. This conservatism is probably even more prevalent within the upper classes, where the girls you're going to want to get with will be. Hook-ups happen, but SNL is rare. You won't get anywhere on the first night with most Jamaican girls, and it'll get harder the higher up the social ladder you go. These are quality women-they rarely get down like that. Don't expect alcohol to help you out either, as these girls aren't known to drink like fish.
They still arrange marriages. My mother has been trying to make me do this myself, putting the daughters of her old classmates/friends in front of me, hoping I'll take a liking to them and eventually marry. I'm thinking I might give in and head back down there for a wife one day-these are very high quality women, and often very pretty. Great mother-of-my-children material.
The problem is that as a single foreigner who is not a known part of the society, you will not be able to compete with this. She won't mess with you over a guy from her society who has been approved by her parents. Even if she did mess with you, you'd lose her quickly when her parents and society come calling for her to get with "Mr. Right". If knowledge of her messing with you could do any damage to her socially (it almost always will), she won't bother, even if she likes you.
If she's outside of the country, of course, she might stray a bit more. God help her if daddy finds out too many details, though.
So what should you do?
Honestly, I'd tell you to
skip Jamaica. I adore the place, but if upping the notch count is your goal, then you'll get way more bang for your buck elsewhere. The DR is right next door, nevermind the rest of Latin America. T&T is also a slightly more open option. Unless you have some serious connections and are considering finding a wife, Jamaica isn't a great deal. Your ROI will be very low.
And to Moma:
"Why not also consider other parts of Jamaica i.e. Montego Bay, Negril?"
ISW, don't bother with this unless you want tourists. Most of the girls you're going to want to hit (girls who come even close to resembling the looks and/or behavior of your ex) will be in Kingston, or will do most of their partying there at least.
That's all I got for now.