Post: #1

I know financial success and success with women are not mutually exclusive, and most often financially successful men do the best with women. But for hypothetical sake would you guys say that you'd take money over bitches?

Or maybe more specifically would you spend most of your 20's focused and consumed with making big $$, with limited success with women, but have 100's of thousands saved for your 30's, or would you be the guy that partied hard and got laid with 100's of women, but only has a few thousand to your name by the time you hit 30?

Just curious, if anyone cares to respond.

Post: #2

Assuming that we are talking about professional carrier, and not becoming a shift supervisor in Burger King, in my opinion it is worth to spend your 20s focused on your career/$$. My rationale is the following:

1. When you start your career, you will need to learn a lot of stuff and do your job at the same time. It is easier to work hard (like 16 hours a day for two weeks including weekends) when you are 20 than when you are 40. It is also easier to learn.

2. The earlier you start putting money in your 401(k), the higher the return would be. Ten years may make a huge difference in the amount of returns.

3. A carefully chosen career may make goals like "traveling to South America every two months" or "living in Asia for six months a year" extremely easy - not only you wouldn't have those expenses, but you may end up being paid for doing so.

4. You still can go out two nights a week (Fri/Sat) and getting laid regularly. Of course your success will be more limited, but you will catch up later. As my wife says, a 20 years old student who lives on the beach and makes living by selling his drawings sounds romantic. A 40 years old doing the same sounds like a miserable person.

Just my two cents.

Post: #3

Why r u you sacrificing the best years of your life for unsecured future? You can get cancer, have a stroke or even a heart attack in your 20's..

Money is f-ing bullshit...people don't want money, they want control..to be liberated from a job, poverty, fear, and a life to do whatever they want...you will never attain this by working a job busting your ass and saving for a uncertain future...ownership is your salvation..

Find a vehicle that allows you to build wealth and be liberated from the shackles of a shitty job in order to control your days...

Post: #4

(07-01-2010 10:39 PM)Caramel Communist Wrote:  Why r u you sacrificing the best years of your life for unsecured future? You can get cancer, have a stroke or even a heart attack in your 20's..

Money is f-ing bullshit...people don't want money, they want control..to be liberated from a job, poverty, fear, and a life to do whatever they want...you will never attain this by working a job busting your ass and saving for a uncertain future...ownership is your salvation..

Find a vehicle that allows you to build wealth and be liberated from the shackles of a shitty job in order to control your days...

Money makes women want to go on a shopping spree, not horny. I see nothing wrong with making money (even if it is the best years of your life) but not making money so you can get plenty of women.

Post: #5

If a man could fuck in a cardboard box, he would not buy a house.

Its part of the package. Why do you think so many men come back with stories of foreign conquests? Elevated status and the belief that you are wealthy compared to the locals. You think your cocky and funny shit is so "tight" that a girl who does not understand the subtleties of your language is still bowled over by it?

Financial success does ensure a steady stream of poon. Its just as a case of if the man is willing to take it. If you are making a million bucks a year, you could fuck a different high class whore 2-3 times a week and it would not even touch sides. Women would share you because they know they cant replace you, unless you are stupid enough to marry them and contarctually obligate yourself to them that is.

When you are in your 40's, you are not going to look like you did when you were in your 20's. A fat wallet levels the playing field.

Women like men with resources. That shit is universal. The poorest Russian to the power career chick, they ALL like to date up. Either in looks or in status. You dont know how much easier this shit is when you have money in your pocket. You deal with fewer shit tests and they make themselves more availibile too you. If you dont believe me, rent a sports car for a week, wear nothing but designer clothes and even a fake rolex. You tell me if you dont notice a difference.

A rich faggot is still a faggot, but a poor 40 year old man is a loser regardless of how he looks. Game pales into insignificance when you are wealthy. Not 250k a year wealthy though. Real money

Post: #6

(07-02-2010 03:00 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  If a man could fuck in a cardboard box, he would not buy a house.

Its part of the package. Why do you think so many men come back with stories of foreign conquests? Elevated status and the belief that you are wealthy compared to the locals. You think your cocky and funny shit is so "tight" that a girl who does not understand the subtleties of your language is still bowled over by it?

Financial success does ensure a steady stream of poon. Its just as a case of if the man is willing to take it. If you are making a million bucks a year, you could fuck a different high class whore 2-3 times a week and it would not even touch sides. Women would share you because they know they cant replace you, unless you are stupid enough to marry them and contarctually obligate yourself to them that is.

When you are in your 40's, you are not going to look like you did when you were in your 20's. A fat wallet levels the playing field.

Women like men with resources. That shit is universal. The poorest Russian to the power career chick, they ALL like to date up. Either in looks or in status. You dont know how much easier this shit is when you have money in your pocket. You deal with fewer shit tests and they make themselves more availibile too you. If you dont believe me, rent a sports car for a week, wear nothing but designer clothes and even a fake rolex. You tell me if you dont notice a difference.

A rich faggot is still a faggot, but a poor 40 year old man is a loser regardless of how he looks. Game pales into insignificance when you are wealthy. Not 250k a year wealthy though. Real money

$250,000 USD a year is real money to me and I'm positive I could translate that to steady, high quality poon in many parts of the world.

I know because I make far less than this and have done well so far. :-)

Good points though -- agree with all of it.

Post: #7

(07-02-2010 04:28 AM)kindredspirit Wrote:  $250,000 USD a year is real money to me and I'm positive I could translate that to steady, high quality poon in many parts of the world.

I know because I make far less than this and have done well so far. :-)

Good points though -- agree with all of it.

Agreed, I could parlay that into a nice lifestyle, full of pussy, no matter where I was. As long as you have a little money (like 250k/yr) its not hard to give the illusion like you have a lot more, especially because most women don't know any men who make that much money. Even on that 'budget' most women would feel spoiled, as long as you have any money management skills. But I agree with all of whoremongers other points as well.

Post: #8

(07-02-2010 04:28 AM)kindredspirit Wrote:  $250,000 USD a year is real money to me and I'm positive I could translate that to steady, high quality poon in many parts of the world.

I know because I make far less than this and have done well so far. :-)

Been there, seen that. $250K/year sound like a lot only when you make far less than that.

Post: #9

$250,000 USD/year IS a lot, but one thing people forget with money...the more of it you have coming in, the more of it is going to be going out. With that kind of money your Honda Civic will begin to look shitty...time to step up to a Porsche.

It's why so many former NBA stars (Latrell!) who made huge dollars hand over fist just ten years ago are now broke, and the same thing happens with a lot of lottery winners. If you ever come into money, invest wisely; real estate, commodities, hedges, foreign currencies et al. before going crazy with it. Definitely place an accountant and a lawyer on retainer.

Money and women can be mixed, but you gotta be careful and keep your girl on a leash. Most chicks will never admit it, but their eyes light up when a man flashes cash and their brain instantly starts working on ways to figure out how they can get a piece of the action. They think they're above that, but they're no more above it than we're above their looks, which we aren't.

I saw this firsthand when I was younger, and I learned the hardway that you need to keep women's expectations low; If you take a girl out to $500 dinners often enough, they begin to expect that kind of treatment on the routine...and when you run out of money, your cashflow isn't the only thing that dries up, if you know what I mean.

If we're talking exclusivity though...I'd probably have to take money over bitches, my rationale;

- If you have lots of money, you can always pay for sex. No drama, no wasted time.
- And not just escorts! Get dressed in a flash suit, carry an obnoxious bankroll (like 3gs) everywhere you go, open a young co-ed in some boutique looking at a pricey hangbag that she knows she can't afford, talk to her for a few minutes before bouncing her outside and ask her if she wants to make some money today. If you're wearing a $5200 suit and flashing your quick cash in front of your Porsche, I'm willing to bet a pretty civilian girl would gladly spend a few hours fucking you if it means the difference between making her monthly rent and not making her monthly rent.
- Yeah I know its grimy, fuck off.
- Constant pussy is nice, but it doesn't keep you alive. Pussy can pay the bills, dick does not.

I'd rather be secure and paying for sex than knee deep in girls and living paycheck to paycheck, eating peanut butter sandwiches for dinner. I could get into a spiel on how you're always paying for sex, but you all know where that's coming from and where it'll go.

Post: #10

(07-03-2010 03:35 AM)Nonpareil Wrote:  $250,000 USD/year IS a lot, but one thing people forget with money...the more of it you have coming in, the more of it is going to be going out. With that kind of money your Honda Civic will begin to look shitty...time to step up to a Porsche.

It's why so many former NBA stars (Latrell!) who made huge dollars hand over fist just ten years ago are now broke, and the same thing happens with a lot of lottery winners. If you ever come into money, invest wisely; real estate, commodities, hedges, foreign currencies et al. before going crazy with it. Definitely place an accountant and a lawyer on retainer.

Money and women can be mixed, but you gotta be careful and keep your girl on a leash. Most chicks will never admit it, but their eyes light up when a man flashes cash and their brain instantly starts working on ways to figure out how they can get a piece of the action. They think they're above that, but they're no more above it than we're above their looks, which we aren't.

I saw this firsthand when I was younger, and I learned the hardway that you need to keep women's expectations low; If you take a girl out to $500 dinners often enough, they begin to expect that kind of treatment on the routine...and when you run out of money, your cashflow isn't the only thing that dries up, if you know what I mean.

If we're talking exclusivity though...I'd probably have to take money over bitches, my rationale;

- If you have lots of money, you can always pay for sex. No drama, no wasted time.
- And not just escorts! Get dressed in a flash suit, carry an obnoxious bankroll (like 3gs) everywhere you go, open a young co-ed in some boutique looking at a pricey hangbag that she knows she can't afford, talk to her for a few minutes before bouncing her outside and ask her if she wants to make some money today. If you're wearing a $5200 suit and flashing your quick cash in front of your Porsche, I'm willing to bet a pretty civilian girl would gladly spend a few hours fucking you if it means the difference between making her monthly rent and not making her monthly rent.
- Yeah I know its grimy, fuck off.
- Constant pussy is nice, but it doesn't keep you alive. Pussy can pay the bills, dick does not.

I'd rather be secure and paying for sex than knee deep in girls and living paycheck to paycheck, eating peanut butter sandwiches for dinner. I could get into a spiel on how you're always paying for sex, but you all know where that's coming from and where it'll go.

Prophet Talk ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Post: #11

If your still asking yourself this question, you just need to fuck a few more chicks, the answer should be obvious.

Post: #12

A lot of guys really overestimate the power of money to bang a lot of girls. Just like with anything there is a point of diminishing return where more money doesn't equal more bangs. Those rich guys you see getting laid are doing it because of fame, not money. Do you know how many rich guys (without status) can't get laid? Or get laid with low quality? You need to have the whole package, and money is just a part of it. Having money sure makes it easier to go where the pretty girls are, but it won't turn you in Leonardo Dicaprio overnight.

Post: #13

Roosh, it will when you are older.

When you are under 40, you can get by on game or some schtick. As you get older, the women in your range are older and as they tend to age they gravitate towards men who provide more as their bodies move into baby making panic mode. No woman wants a 50 year old man living in a one bedroom flat.

Im under no illusions as to why I am banging higher quality women when I am abroad. Yes, the women dont tend to be cunts like they do in the west and yes they are more approachable, but that is because they think I have more cash and I am different/foreign/exotic.

Money and schtick opens doors and legs. The only guys who have real money and struggle with women tend to be the sorts of people who have beta mindset ingrained in them.

Post: #14

I agree with Whoremonger.

Money can also bring something else that's priceless to women: to become part of a world and lifestyle that's desired and respected by her peer group.

In other words, it's going to be a smaller % women who are interested in being with a foreign guy with no roots in her home country, no real friends or family in common with her, seems to be flittering around with no commitment to stay put, and is not master of his own domain (in the sense of being a "connected" and "successful" guy who has invitations to all kinds of private events every weekend).

Compare that to a guy who is local to her who happens to also be rich, successful, desired by her female peer group, has a great group of friends and family she can be introduced to, and who is involved in a variety of cool, exclusive, local activities that she would love to also be a part of.

To give a specific example, if you're a high-quality woman with plenty of suitors before you, who would you rather be with:

1. Joe Smith from Cleveland, Ohio, living in a temporary borrowed studio apartment with his laptop, mattress, and suitcase as his only furniture; Has no friends or family; involved in no other activities besides going to bars/clubs at night to chat up strange women; may not stick around for very long.

VS

2. Local Resident living in a beautifully furnished flat in a posh neighborhood she's always dreamt about; has a great group of friends and family who make her feel wanted and welcome; involved in a variety of activities and constantly getting invites to private parties, exhibitions, musical performances, club openings, etc. that she would love to also participate in; and who offers her a glimpse of a sustainable "good life" that all of her peer group aspires to.


Now make Joe Smith 45+ years old and you're talking dramatically diminishing returns, even if you are residing abroad.

This is why money becomes more and more important as you grow older -- because of the world you can create + the security you can provide that becomes intoxicating to women if done the right way.

Post: #15

This is a good discussion. I think if you go through your 20s working, making the big $$, you might as well get a steady girl. That way, you're not completely miserable after pulling the long hours. When I say a steady girl, I don't mean a girlfriend or someone who would use words like "us" and "we." Most importantly, you should be investing that hard earned cash into RE, Businesses, Stocks or whatever strikes your fancy, because you WILL need that strong cash flow by the time you hit your 30s.

As for the girl, your call on keeping her around or not.

Personally, I would be doing something that I somewhat enjoy if I am shooting for the big bucks. That way, you get some satisfaction on the day to day work you are doing while banking the cash. All of this is easier said than done, so be sure to have that discipline.

Post: #16

I guess the views in this thread are shaped by our experiences.

I've met too many guys with average means (myself included) getting with girls who are of higher quality than richer guys who *should* be pulling easily, yet they're not.

For me personally the improvement in quality with baller status would be marginal. I know this because I've dated many girls who had ballers pursuing them WHILE I was banging them. One girl I was with was getting chased by a billionaire. Yeah with a B. He tried to entice her with exotic trips while she was driving to my townhouse in the burbs.

Kindred: unfortunately your Joe Smith analogy is extremely flawed because a girl is never presented with black and white choices like that. You're thinking like a guy, but that's not how women select mates. Yes, we know a guy who can dress well and make money and have a nice car and speak a foreign language should get the girl all the time, but we know that's not the case, or every lawyer and doctor in this country would have an 8 on their arms.

I do think a guy's fixation on making a lot of money hurts them with women more than it helps. The guys who say money is important don't have a lot of money, cause if they did they'd realize it's not as important as they think. They are looking for that magic bullet that takes them to the next level, but I haven't seen a real life case where it did. Again, if that money comes with status and fame then sure. But otherwise, sorry. Your time is better spent on your passions, friends, and approaching girls you find attractive, wherever they are.

Post: #17

Ignoring the false dichotomy I'd say people with little cash suck (they just generate problems) and you should strive hard to never end up as one of them. Work as hard as necessary and avoid debt to ensure you always have at least a year's worth of cash.

Post: #18

Roosh, I know what you mean. At my regular spot I am posting up against old money Bostonians, new money entrepreneurs and still coming out better off than them. From my vantage point those guys are relying too much on the flash and $$s where they attract the attention of gold/plat diggers. If that floats their boats then no problem on my end, because I am cleaning up in the 23-28 range of women. My conversations are real and flaking is at a minimum.

ON the other hand, give me a cat like the G who can combine $$, game and free time - its lethal. Fortunately this is rarer than you would think, but I am fairly certain that if someone like that steps to a girl, I doubt that he would do worse than you (or me).

I would rather go for the dinero option for MY long term economic security rather than attracting women. That being said, I'd like to think that I already meet the baseline of what most women are looking for, so I am not as concerned about 'impressing' anyone with the wealth.

The big issue is time, I don't want to be slaving away at all hours while my boys are out meeting women, doing things that they like or drinking. It's definitely challenging to make decent money, properly invest it, while managing to have the time to be out.

Post: #19

Money is not the be all and end all.

The difference is that give a man with self confidence and a decent body some money and the rate at which he pulls will rocket. You deal with less flaking and women are also prepared to share you. Just because you have money in your pocket does not mean you are not a chump, but I can say that it is a MASSIVE advantage if you do have money in your pocket. I see so many complaints about flaking these days and the reason for that is because you are nothing special to the girl. How exactly are you a catch or worth pursuing if she has options?

Hot women have options. Game theory has its merits, but relying on that alone is only going to get you so far. You pick up a few easy lays but your entire life is consumed by pussy. You spend time chasing this shit on a constant basis. You have to open more women because you are just average Joe until you whip out your "A level game" on the broad. Who when she wakes up the next morning, and the emotional rollercoaster she was on has subsided, cant think of any reason why she would want to really see you UNLESS she is really attracted to you.

Put some real money in your pocket and you spend less time chasing pussy. Opportunities open up all the time and you dont have to spend so much time opening women. You dont have to hard hit as many because they put themselves i your field of view. You jump through fewer hoops and you deal with fewer shit tests. You deal with less flaking and have to deal with more stalking. Women are also more willing to accept your cheating too. You still have to have your shit together though.

I dont see many players in their middle 40's who DONT have a bit of currency to throw around. Not unless you happy to fuck fatties and uglies.

Post: #20

Here's one example of how money makes things easy as pie:

Throw a private party. Fill it up with 20 people, mostly girls, some couples, a few guys.

The private party is in your bachelor pad that looks sick and exudes understated wealth.

Nice bachelor pad + cool friends = Guaranteed at least one girl throwing herself at me

I can't even remember when I didn't have a girl (usually 2-3) into me after throwing one of these shin digs.

I do however remember living in my parent's extra bedroom and unable to even throw parties much less bring girls home.

The difference? Cash in my bank account

Post: #21

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Post: #22

(07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

Post: #23

That's exactly right. Do what you love and turn it into a pussy magnet. No more shitty bars, no more crappy clubs, let the pre-selected women come to you. George Clooney style.

Post: #24

(07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

(07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

Real Talk.

Post: #25

(07-05-2010 01:40 PM)kindredspirit Wrote:  That's exactly right. Do what you love and turn it into a pussy magnet. No more shitty bars, no more crappy clubs, let the pre-selected women come to you. George Clooney style.

I dig what you're saying, it's golden, but easier said, than done.