Post: #1

Hey guys-

So I've been big into the history of WW2 lately, specifically the pacific theatre. I've been trying to find good things to read, but there's simply so much stuff out there it's hard to know where to start. I know a lot of people here are very well-read and knowlegable; can any of you suggest good books, documentaries, or podcasts about the naval war in the pacific during WW2?

Post: #2

"Helmet for my pillow" - not naval but a great read

Post: #3

A while back I bought a book at a second hand shop called "Ghost Fleet of the Truk Lagoon" about japanese occupation of the pacific atolls and their liberation by the americans. Its written as both historical fact and first person narrative, complete with pics and charts.

Very interesting, I still have that copy.

Post: #4

"The Right Kind of War" - the author (a marine form the Pacific Campaign and an entertaining writer) posits that the War in the Pacific was different, because in the European theatre they were too "like us". He states that the war against an "alien" enemy like Japanese could but conducted utterly without with mercy, compassion or humanity on either side. In a "Col. Kurtz" moment, he figures that this is what makes it "The Right Kind of War". Pure, without the corrupting influences of civilization and empathy that softened the war in Germany.

Post: #5

Faust,

Depends if you have cable or not, there is always interesting stuff.

Personally, I didn't connect with "The Pacific" sort of the "Band of Brothers" equivalent for the Pacific theatre. Partly because it was cobbled together from a few books, it wasn't like there was one group that went to all the action. And focused more on the land campaign as opposed to the naval.

I enjoyed reading this book about PT 109 and JFK. http://www.amazon.com/PT-109-John-Kenned...0071376437
Covered the Guadalcanal action. And you learn about the huge strength and courage JFK had.

I am not sure how much you have read or know. But some of the things that have fascinated me about the Pacific Theatre:

1) Midway
2) Guadalcanal
3) All the carrier action - those ships really kept it together out there. Especially, the Enterprise. Saratoga was a piece of crap.
4) Battle of The Philippines Sea/Leyte Gulf - Read about Taffy 3. That was a heroic fight. There are a lot of good books about it, but recently on cable thre was a series called "Ultimate Warfare" and the episode was called "Courage at Sea." Not bad if you don't want to read a book. Without the sacrifices made by this small group of underpowered ships, the invasion beachheads may have been lost. Also, during this battle Taffy 3 experiences the first kamikaze attack of the war.
5) The German subs get a lot of glory - but US subs were devastating.
6) The battle between Wildcats and Zeroes. One was all flash and speed and the other slow and rugged.
7) The land battles were gruesome and painful. It was a grind the Japanese were so fanatical.

Obviously, I am hugely fascinated by the naval activity. Enjoy!

Post: #6

I've done a decent amount of reading, both in English and Japanese, on it, but there's just so much stuff it's hard to know what's good, which is why I was hoping somebody would have some recommendations. (Some of the Japanese stuff is hilarious, either for being outright wrong or for trying to glorify ships that never did anything or battles that were outright defeats.)
I did read a book called "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" about the Leyte Gulf battle, it was really good.

I do not, however, have cable, which puts me at kind of a loss for documentaries that aren't on youtube.

Do you know any good books on Midway?

Post: #7

Pacific Crucible by Ian Toll is great. Very readable, too. I think Roosh reviewed it very favorably back in the day on his older blog.

http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Crucible-W...he+pacific

Post: #8

Oh man, you're in my ballpark right now. It really depends what you're looking for.

Pacific Crucible is outstanding. If you're into land-based stuff, see With the Old Breed, Guadalcanal Diary, and whatever R.V. Burgin's book is (I read it over a year ago). Now, if we're talking about naval warfare, we're really in my element here.

Gordon Prange's books are among the best out there. At Dawn We Slept is nearly 35 years old and still the best book out there about Pearl Harbor. Miracle at Midway is excellent as well. These books are fairly long, but they're very engaging, and you'd be surprised how quickly you get through them. I got through Miracle at Midway (which is 400+ pages) in a matter of a few days.

Samuel Eliot Morison's official history of the Navy during WWII is also outstanding, though not the easiest to find. I haven't read all of the volumes on the Pacific, but the ones I have read (The Rising Sun in the Pacific 1931-May 1942, Midway, Guadalcanal) have been outstanding to say the least. He had access to literally everything during and after the war.

Post: #9

(09-26-2014 01:09 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  Samuel Eliot Morison's official history of the Navy during WWII is also outstanding, though not the easiest to find. I haven't read all of the volumes on the Pacific, but the ones I have read (The Rising Sun in the Pacific 1931-May 1942, Midway, Guadalcanal) have been outstanding to say the least. He had access to literally everything during and after the war.

I think I remember reading those during my summer of WW2 reading as a kid. Those were really good. You might be able to just get those at the library.

Post: #10

I actually forgot to mention James Hornfischer's books. They're also excellent.

Morison's books are easy to find online, not easy to find in libraries. It's strange.

Post: #11

I have to second (or third) With the Old Breed by E.B. Sledge it's the best first person account of WW2 i've ever read.

There's some truly horrific moments in that like the memories of him sitting for days in a fetid maggot infested foxhole made up of human soup.

Post: #12

One problem with reading about the Pacific War is that very few Western historians take the trouble to investigate the Japanese side as well as they should. There are several reasons, the most obvious being the language barrier. About 50 years ago, the US and British governments returned to Japan all the military documents they had confiscated at the time of the Japanese surrender. The Japanese government took those and other documents they had collected and wrote the Senshi Sōsho, a 102-volume history of the Pacific War from Japan's side. The master copy of this history is kept in the Ministry of Defense library in Tokyo. Very few of the volumes of this history have been translated into English. Copies of some of the volumes, still in Japanese, have been acquired by libraries of some Western universities.

When I look at a new, English book published on some aspect of the Pacific War, I immediately turn to the bibliography and see if the author at least attempted to use the Senshi Sōsho. Very few do, and I'll highlight below the ones I know of who have. Admittedly, to do so would be of great expense to a Western author, because it would likely entail them traveling to Japan, going to the Defense library, paying for copies to be made of the pages from the Senshi that he needs, then getting someone to translate them into English for him.

Another thing is that, just like in Western countries, most Japanese survivors of military units banded together into veteran's organizations after the war. If Western authors would politely approach these groups, I'm sure they would be willing to share their libraries of diaries, journals, interviews, and oral histories with them. However, as far as I know, very few Western historians of the Pacific War attempt to do this. Western histories of the Pacific War battles are, therefore, greatly devoid of the appropriate details and context from the Japanese side.

Below are some authors and books that have done a good job, in my opinion, of researching sources in both English and Japanese and therefore present a more complete account of the event:

1. All books by John B. Lundstrom. His First Team books, while dry, are amazingly detailed, even down to the names of individual Japanese and American pilots involved.

2. Jon Parshall and Anthony Tully. Their Shattered Sword is probably one of the most important books on exactly how the Japanese managed to lose the Battle of Midway. Tully's Battle of Surigao Strait give the Japanese side of one of the only battleship-vs-battleship battles of the Pacific War. These two run a website that covers the Imperial Japanese Navy in exhaustive detail. The related web forum is one of the best places to go to ask detailed questions on Japanese operations during the war.

3. Richard B. Frank. His Guadalcanal book is probably the best book on this key campaign. Downfall, about Japan's surrender is also excellent. Historical revisionists greatly dislike this book because he busts a lot of Japanese and Western leftists' attempts to villify the use of the atomic bomb to coerce Japan's surrender.

4. Dan King. A Tomb Called Iwo Jima gives the Japanese side of this battle and The Last Zero Fighter provides excellent insight into what it was like to be a Japanese aviator during the war.

5. Edward J. Drea. Has written two excellent books on the Imperial Japanese Army and its operations with copious use of Japanese sources.

6. H. P. Willmott. His three, book-length essays on the first two years of the Pacific War are, in my opinion, the best essays out there on how Japan could have won they Pacific War and why they ended up losing it.

Below are some other books that I think did an excellent job of research from both sides or provide some really good insight into what took place during the war:

Battle of Okinawa: The Blood and the Bomb by George Feifer

A Dawn Like Thunder: The True Story of Torpedo Squadron Eight by Robert Mrazek. Not only a great history book, this one of the most emotionally draining books I've ever read. Besides great on human drama, the author helps expose one of the biggest US Navy cover-ups of the Pacific War, which occurred at Midway concerning the performance of the USS Hornet's fiasco with its dive-bomber groups. This cover-up wasn't exposed until just recently.

The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945 by John Toland.

Japanese Destroyer Captain by Tameichi Hara

Bloody Ridge: The Battle that Saved Guadalcanal by Michael S. Smith

Combined Fleet Decoded: The Secret History of American Intelligence and the Japanese Navy in World War II by John Prados

Bless 'em All: The Raider Marines of World War II by Oscar Peatross. This is a hard book to find for a reasonable price.

Left to Die: The Tragedy of the USS Juneau by Dan Kurzman

The Coastwatchers by Eric Feldt. Make sure to buy the unabridged Penguin Edition of this one, not the abridged version published by an American company.

Lonely Vigil: Coastwatchers of the Solomons by Walter Lord

There are many other fairly good books on the Pacific War, but I think the ones I listed above are about the best if you want to get a complete perspective on what actually took place. If I can think of any more, I'll add them.

Post: #13

I can't believe I haven't thought of any of these before:

Baa Baa Black Sheep, by Pappy Boyington (leading USMC ace)

Saburo Sakai's autobiography Samurai! (leading surviving Japanese ace)

H.P. Wilmott's stuff is generally pretty good.

Hiroshima by John Hersey is a good read. You may feel some sympathy for the Japanese after reading this. Cure: read about the Rape of Nanking.

One Square Mile of Hell is a good book about Tarawa, one of the worst battles of the theater.

Given Up for Dead, about the USMC's defense of Wake Island

In terms of movies or TV:

The Pacific series (HBO) is tolerable.

Run Silent, Run Deep is a submarine classic, as is Torpedo Run. Destination Tokyo is another good choice.

Bataan and Back to Bataan are good wartime movies. Wake Island was the first American movie to cover the Pacific War (1942). Guadalcanal Diary, the movie, is a good wartime one. The Sands of Iwo Jima is good if you like John Wayne. The Thin Red Line is supposedly one of the best WWII movies ever made, though I wasn't a big fan.

Post: #14

What did you guys make of Letters from Iwo Jima, then?

Post: #15

Retribution by Max Hastings is an outstanding account of the last year in the war against japan.
It tells all sides perspectives Japanese, British,American,Chinese,Australian and Russian from all areas of the war.
You would be hard pressed to find a more detailed book that is so easily readable.

Post: #16

(09-25-2014 11:18 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  "The Right Kind of War" - the author (a marine form the Pacific Campaign and an entertaining writer) posits that the War in the Pacific was different, because in the European theatre they were too "like us". He states that the war against an "alien" enemy like Japanese could but conducted utterly without with mercy, compassion or humanity on either side. In a "Col. Kurtz" moment, he figures that this is what makes it "The Right Kind of War". Pure, without the corrupting influences of civilization and empathy that softened the war in Germany.

This is such an interesting concept to me. The military spends a great deal of time training troops to break past our natural aversion to killing other humans, an aversion that is lessened when there is a large cultural and social gulf between combatants.

As bad as the Nazis and the fascist Italians were, they shared far more cultural traditions with the U.S. and the U.K. than the Japanese. Christianity, for one, formed common ground. English itself is a Germanic language, cobbled together with influences from everywhere the Anglosphere has touched.

Contrast the Japanese, a people whom are influenced by Confucianism, Shinto, and Bushido - belief systems that are utterly foreign to the West. For instance, look at the traditional Japanese perspective towards ritual suicide, "seppuku". In this warrior culture, disemboweling yourself to atone for dishonor was perfectly acceptable, and encouraged. The West has had countless military orders throughout Europe and the Americas, but being influenced by Christian values (and therefore the belief that suicide is a one-way ticket to Hell), finds seppuku abhorrent.

A case of apples and oranges, if there ever was one.

Post: #17

(08-02-2015 02:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  What did you guys make of Letters from Iwo Jima, then?

A very interesting movie from a different perspective. It's kind of like watching Downfall. You sympathize with the characters until you realize what the Japanese and Nazis did.

That being said, they were human too. It's far too easy to paint the Axis as incarnate demons.

Post: #18

(08-02-2015 02:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  What did you guys make of Letters from Iwo Jima, then?

I thought Clint Eastwood did a good job with that one. Unfortunately, the Japanese government didn't allow him to film on Iwo Jima itself. The Pacific War still needs its Saving Private Ryan-type film, which hasn't yet happened. Some of the Western films which focus on the treatment of POWs by the Japanese are good, like The Railway Man that I just watched.

Japan makes some good WWII movies, but many of them aren't released in the West. This movie (Oba: The Last Samurai) is available outside Japan and is a good one. The book it's based on was originally published in Japanese, even though the author was American, but was later released in English and I recommend it.

When I listed the authors above, I neglected Mark R. Peattie, who has written or co-authored several books on the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) and Japan's colonialism in China and the Pacific. His Sunburst, about the development of Japan's naval airpower, is a surprisingly breezy read in spite of the technical nature of its topic. I found his Nanyo book, giving the history of Japan's administration/occupation of the Central Pacific islands from 1917-1945, very interesting.

I agree with the book recommendations by Liberman, Truth Teller, and others in this thread. I'll add a few more below:

* O'Hara, Vincent P., The US Navy Against the Axis: Surface Combat 1941–1945. Kind of an academic approach to the WWII naval battles in which the US was involved.

* Bergerud, Eric M. Touched with Fire: The Land War in the South Pacific and Fire in the Sky: The Air War in the South Pacific

* Cook, Haruko Taya; Theodore F. Cook, Japan at War: An Oral History- Some really good first-person accounts, and provides evidence that most Japanese who witnessed or participated in atrocities were riddled with guilt about it after the war ended

* Gilbert, Oscar E., Marine Tank Battles in the Pacific- Interesting to read that there was one actual tank-vs-tank battle during the Battle of Saipan.

* Hornfischer, James D., Ship of Ghosts: The Story of the USS Houston, FDR's Legendary Lost Cruiser, and the Epic Saga of Her Survivors

* Radike, Floyd W., Across the Dark Islands: The War in the Pacific- First person account

* Walker, Charles H., Combat Officer: A Memoir of War in the South Pacific- First person account

* Evans, David C., The Japanese Navy in World War II: In the Words of Former Japanese Naval Officers- First person accounts from the Japanese side on several of the major Pacific naval battles.

* Werneth, Ron, Beyond Pearl Harbor: The Untold Stories of Japan's Naval Airmen- Some really fascinating first person accounts from the Japanese side.

* Satterfield, John R., We Band of Brothers: The Sullivans and World War II- Story of the five Sullivan brothers who died together in the sinking of the USS Juneau

* Anderson, Charles R., Day of Lightning, Years of Scorn: Walter C. Short and the Attack on Pearl Harbor- Gets down into the weeds about who was really responsible for the US getting taken by surprise at Pearl Harbor.

* Gillon, Steven M., Pearl Harbor: FDR Leads the Nation into War- Fascinating, behind-the-scenes info on FDR's actions and plans before Pearl Harbor and shortly afterwards. Especially good insight into his drafting and delivery of his Day of Infamy speech to Congress.

* Zimm, Alan D., Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions- Academic-type breakdown on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of Japan's execution of this operation

* Cressman, Robert J.; Steve Ewing, Barrett Tillman, Mark Horan, Clark G. Reynolds, Stan Cohen, "A Glorious Page in our History": The Battle of Midway 4-6 June 1942- Good account of the Battle of Midway compiled by several of the most prominent US historians on the Pacific War

* Wiles, W. Emerson "Tripp", Forgotten Raiders of '42: The Fate of the Marines Left Behind on Makin- Good example of how historical research can cast new light on an older, controversial incident

* Loxton, Bruce; Chris Coulthard-Clark, The Shame of Savo: Anatomy of a Naval Disaster- Loxton was a survivor of the Australian cruiser sunk in this battle, and wrote this book to try to dispel what he saw as several myths or misconceptions about this battle

* Miller, Thomas G., Cactus Air Force- Published in 1969 but still stands up.

* Davis, Donald A., Lightning Strike: The Secret Mission to Kill Admiral Yamamoto and Avenge Pearl Harbor- One of the most interesting parts of this story is the decades-long battle between two of the pilots over the claim of who actually shot down Yamamoto's plane

* Kunevicius, Alex, 585 Raids and Counting: Memoir of an American Soldier in the Solomon Islands, 1942-1945- First person account

* Mizuki, Shigeru, Onward Towards our Noble Deaths- Mizuki was a survivor of the New Guinea Campaign who later became a manga artist and this book about his wartime experiences is in manga format.

* Wetterhahn, Ralph, The Last Flight of Bomber 31: Harrowing Tales of American and Japanese Pilots who Fought in World War II's Arctic Air Campaign- Interesting account of one of the neglected theaters of the Pacific War.

* Hadley, Gregory, Field of Spears: The Last Mission of the Jordan Crew- Covers the treatment of B-29 crews shot-down and captured in Japan.

* Mori, Juzo, The Miraculous Torpedo Squadron- First person account by a Japanese torpedo bomber pilot who somehow survived the war.

* Meehl, Gerald A., One Marine's War: A Combat Interpreter's Quest for Humanity in the Pacific- Story of a US field intepreter in the Battle for Saipan

Post: #19

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Land-...0140246967

South Pacific ground war.Savage shit.
Don't forget Australia saw itself as fighting for survival while all it's best troops were off fighting the Germans in Nth Africa.

Post: #20

The Pacific War 1941-45 John Costello