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Cold War History
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XPQ22 Offline
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Cold War History
I'm a fan of reading about and exploring the history of the arms race between the US and the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

YouTube is a great asset in this - there are many documentaries and films produced within the US Defense Department with material that is now declassified.

The Department of Defense came up with requirements for weapons systems, scientists at Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore designed the physics, and then during the period that atmospheric testing was allowed, lugged the prototype warheads out to Nevada, Christmas Island, and Bikini, and proceeded to vaporize entire islands in the testing process.

Many of the hydrogen (fusion) weapons that were developed in the 1950s and early 1960s were absolutely enormous - as delivery technology was still not very accurate, they had to compensate by building weapons with huge yields that would still destroy a target even if it were several hundred or thousand meters off target. Some of the largest weapons were thousands of times the explosive power of the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Over time, missile guidance became more accurate, and yields were reduced to trade off warhead weight for more fuel and longer range. It was discovered that many smaller weapons, detonated at the optimum height, would do much more damage to a "soft target" than one big one, so missiles that could carry multiple warheads were developed, and target planners distributed the destructive power. A target like a bomber base or city might have been hit by dozens of moderate-yield weapons in a complex pattern, designed to maximize blast damage.

A small mercy is that cities outside of seats of government like DC and Moscow were never considered to be "primary" targets, as the goal would have always been to eliminate the enemy's capacity to wage war, not kill civilians for the sake of killing. Unfortunately, many militarily significant targets are located near or within cities, so even in a "limited" conflict civilian casualties would easily reach into the millions.

"Hard targets" like missile silos, buried underground and protected by thick layers of steel-reinforced concrete and shock absorption systems were a problem, and very accurate earth-penetrating weapons were required to strike them effectively, as anything other than a direct hit would be useless.

Strikes on these targets would've created the most significant longer term danger to survivors of such a war - ground explosions throw millions of tons of radioactive dirt into the atmosphere, and prevailing winds would drop this fallout onto many population centers. For many weeks after this fallout landed it would be suicide to be without shelter for any length of time - radiation levels from fallout on the ground and on roofs of buildings, etc. would be high enough to cause certain death to an unprotected human with mere hours of direct exposure.

A few giant weapons were held in reserve for striking extremely hard targets such as the Cheyenne Mountain complex. It's believed that the Soviets had earth-penetrating warheads with yields of dozens of megatons, precisely timed to follow each other into the crater the previous left, built specifically for burrowing into and vaporizing the entire mountain.

Contrary to popular belief, "neutron" or "enhanced radiation" weapons were not designed to "kill people but leave buildings intact." They were designed to be used tactically, primarily in battlefield situations where tanks and other armored vehicles were the target - these vehicles were designed to be extremely resistant to heat and blast effects.

It's possible that Western civilization could recover from a "limited" nuclear strike, but it would be enormously difficult. The book "War Day" by Whitley Striber published in 1984 explores what the years after such a conflict might be like: people deal with the grief of losing so many friends and relatives, the United States breaks apart into closed nation states and warring factions with rail once again becoming the primary means of long-distance travel (Amtrak finally becomes financially self-sufficient!), pandemic illnesses and famines that that kill as many people as the war itself did, the total collapse of the electronic banking system and financial institutions (only hard currency or barter is accepted, the US dollar suffers such enormous deflation that a house can be purchased for $100 in gold coins), attempted genocide of Whites by Hispanics, attempted genocide of Hispanics by Whites, and the eventual beginnings of new cold wars and expansionary interests between the superpowers which survived the war relatively unscathed, such as Japan, the UK, China, and Brazil.

It's perhaps a little comforting to hope that given human nature to screw things up, any kind of war involving nuclear weapons would immediately cause such massive confusion and indecision that the conflict would rapidly draw to a close, simply because nobody would be able to communicate or figure out WTF was going on. I certainly hope that's the case...but if computers are put in command of everything and no humans are actually in the loop, all bets are off. And it's shocking just how close we came on a few occasions, where the fate of the world legitimately rested in the hands of some half-asleep Russian in the middle of nowhere, staring at a green terminal and saying to himself "Oh shit."
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2016 01:50 PM by XPQ22.)
05-24-2016 01:34 PM
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kaotic Offline
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RE: Cold War History
Great read, I've been fascinated by the cold war.

Another great watch is about Project Azorian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

A soviet nukeboat suffered an explosion and sunk, the Americans attempt to raise it.

Azorian: The Raising Of The K-129

"Go be fat on someone else's time" - Henry Rollins

"i fascisti si dividono in due categorie: i fascisti e gli antifascisti" (there are two types of fascists: fascists and anti-fascists)

My Year in Review Guides 2014|2015|2016

Podcast with H3ltrsk3ltr, Cobra, and Vinman.
05-24-2016 03:09 PM
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XPQ22
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RE: Cold War History
The Bolshevik revolution was funded by globalist bankers, mainly the Schiffs, who like JP Morgan were close Rothschild associates based in NYC. Without that extensive funding, communism wouldn't have taken hold in Eastern Europe.

Beyond its early stages, the Soviet Union was covertly propped up through much of the 20th century by the US deep state and support from some W. European countries (UK esp.) Financiers like Armand Hammer helped keep the failing system in place. The Koch brothers were also in that picture, much like the Bush patriarch supported the Nazis through funding and key technology tranfers (like synthetic fuel through AG Farben), without which the Nazi war machine would have been severely hampered. The Soviets alone would not have been able to compete militarily with the West. Jet engines, nuclear weapons and other key technologies were enabled through covert transfers funneled by the West with government approval.

For a red pill angle on the "Cold War", I would suggest starting with this book by Major George Racey Jordan, a whistleblower who oversaw the logistics of propping up the USSR in the postwar era:

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/F...pg-POL.pdf





The Soviets were propped for financial and ideological reasons. The Cold War was good for business, and the Soviet Union, as well as Red China, were a good seed for a future socialist global template.

More relevant links on the subject:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando125.htm




Gay cakes and trans bathrooms: the most important human rights issues of our times, surely.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2016 08:28 PM by 911.)
05-24-2016 08:16 PM
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RE: Cold War History
By the late 1970s both the US and USSR were sitting on stockpiles of 40,000+ warheads. At that point nuclear planners on both side had more nukes than targets by far. So you had utterly ridiculous scenarios like military planners slotting 100 kiloton warheads to random shantytowns in Southeast Asia or the Soviet plan to park SSBNs under the Arctic ice caps and wait several months to resurface, contact the surviving Soviet satellite network for information and then nuke any concentrations of western survivors dumb enough to be broadcasting on the airwaves.

Also, for a more hilarious story we have Achmed Sukarno, President of Indonesia who trolled the KGB really hard.

http://www.tristarmedia.com/bestofrussia/kgb3.html

Quote:However, surprised happened sometimes too, like it was with the notorious case for seducing Indonesian President Ahmed Sukarno. He was known for his sexual passion. That is why KGB sent a group of young girls to him during his visit to Moscow. Those girls got acquainted with Ahmed Sukarno in a plane, under the disguise of air hostesses, then he invited them to his hotel room in Moscow and arranged a grand orgy. The orgy was filmed by two candid cameras that were fixed behind mirrors. It seemed that the operation was just perfect. Before starting the blackmail, KGB invited Sukarno in a small private movie theatre and showed him the pornographic video, in which he was playing the main part. KGB agents were expecting him to get really frightened, that he would agree to cooperate with them at once, but everything happened vice versa: Sukarno fondly decided that it was a gift from the Soviet government, so he asked for more copies to take them back to Indonesia and show them in movie theatres. Sukarno said to flabbergasted agents that the people of Indonesia would be very proud of him, if they could see him doing the nasty with Russian girls.

LOL
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2016 08:25 PM by PUFF_THE_MAGIC_DRAGON.)
05-24-2016 08:24 PM
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RE: Cold War History
For a scholarly but succinct history of the Cold War, there is no better book than John Gladdis': The Cold War (http://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-New-Histo...43038273). The audiobook version is particularly enjoyable to listen to. I think it was the inspiration for the CNN 20-part documentary on the Cold War.
05-24-2016 09:53 PM
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RE: Cold War History
(05-24-2016 03:09 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Great read, I've been fascinated by the cold war.

Another great watch is about Project Azorian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

A soviet nukeboat suffered an explosion and sunk, the Americans attempt to raise it.

Azorian: The Raising Of The K-129

Lots of interesting things surrounding that expedition, like how Howard Hughes agreed to let the CIA use his name and firm as part of the cover story around the recovery ship, Glomar Explorer. Also, shrouding the incident gave rise to the now-boilerplate response to anything the CIA does, "We can neither confirm nor deny," AKA the 'Glomar Response.'
05-24-2016 11:11 PM
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XPQ22 Offline
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RE: Cold War History
(05-24-2016 08:24 PM)PUFF_THE_MAGIC_DRAGON Wrote:  
Quote:However, surprised happened sometimes too, like it was with the notorious case for seducing Indonesian President Ahmed Sukarno. He was known for his sexual passion. That is why KGB sent a group of young girls to him during his visit to Moscow. Those girls got acquainted with Ahmed Sukarno in a plane, under the disguise of air hostesses, then he invited them to his hotel room in Moscow and arranged a grand orgy. The orgy was filmed by two candid cameras that were fixed behind mirrors. It seemed that the operation was just perfect. Before starting the blackmail, KGB invited Sukarno in a small private movie theatre and showed him the pornographic video, in which he was playing the main part. KGB agents were expecting him to get really frightened, that he would agree to cooperate with them at once, but everything happened vice versa: Sukarno fondly decided that it was a gift from the Soviet government, so he asked for more copies to take them back to Indonesia and show them in movie theatres. Sukarno said to flabbergasted agents that the people of Indonesia would be very proud of him, if they could see him doing the nasty with Russian girls.

LOL

Looks like he sure understood the concept of "agree and amplify"...Banana
05-25-2016 01:31 AM
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Buakaw Offline
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RE: Cold War History
This is a topic that interest me. Can someone recommend some good book(s) about the cold war?
05-25-2016 02:28 AM
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Khan Offline
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RE: Cold War History
(05-25-2016 02:28 AM)Buakaw Wrote:  This is a topic that interest me. Can someone recommend some good book(s) about the cold war?

I liked the following two very much:

The Dead Hand: The Untold Story of the Cold War Arms Race and its Dangerous Legacy

Revolution 1989: The Fall of the Soviet Empire
05-25-2016 05:31 AM
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RE: Cold War History
(05-24-2016 01:34 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  It's perhaps a little comforting to hope that given human nature to screw things up, any kind of war involving nuclear weapons would immediately cause such massive confusion and indecision that the conflict would rapidly draw to a close, simply because nobody would be able to communicate or figure out WTF was going on. I certainly hope that's the case...but if computers are put in command of everything and no humans are actually in the loop, all bets are off. And it's shocking just how close we came on a few occasions, where the fate of the world legitimately rested in the hands of some half-asleep Russian in the middle of nowhere, staring at a green terminal and saying to himself "Oh shit."

Great write up. You are right about how close we sometimes came. I remember reading about Stanislav Petrov, who decided that the computers malfunctioned. If it wasn't for him, there would be a nuclear strike. So basicly it is because of one guy that all went well. Interesting to read about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Sovie...m_incident
05-25-2016 07:24 AM
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XPQ22 Offline
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RE: Cold War History
(05-25-2016 07:24 AM)Thaitanium Wrote:  Great write up. You are right about how close we sometimes came. I remember reading about Stanislav Petrov, who decided that the computers malfunctioned. If it wasn't for him, there would be a nuclear strike. So basicly it is because of one guy that all went well. Interesting to read about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Sovie...m_incident

It seems I forgot some of the details of the incident - I don't think Moscow is exactly the middle of nowhere...Blush
05-25-2016 07:59 AM
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RE: Cold War History
Former Hoover Institute historian and Cal State prof Antony Sutton supports the case I was making above, anyone who is serious about investigating the hidden history behind the Cold War dynamic needs to read his works, including

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution (1974, 1999)
Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development
Technological Treason: A catalog of U.S. firms with Soviet contracts, 1917–1982
National Suicide: Military Aid to the Soviet Union (1973)
The Best Enemy Money Can Buy (1986)
The Federal Reserve Conspiracy (1995)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C._Sutton






The update to the text, The Best Enemy Money Can Buy, looked at the role of military technology transfers up to the 1980s. Appendix B of that text contained the text of his 1972 testimony before Subcommittee VII of the Platform Committee of the Republican Party in which he summarized the essential aspects of his overall research:
Quote:“In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90-95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance"

Gay cakes and trans bathrooms: the most important human rights issues of our times, surely.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2016 02:48 AM by 911.)
05-26-2016 02:42 AM
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