Post: #1

The literature on navigating the terrain of male social dynamics, teamwork, leadership, and competition seems very scarce. I always see books about dealing with other people, but they seem to be written for both genders and are very PC. They don't really reflect the real world most of us live in.

Their focus is on winning people over, getting people to like you, and emotional intelligence. Like they're written by HR departments, yoga teachers, gays, and pastors.

Modern men need something different. Notice how often the men even on this forum voice their frustration of finding it difficult to forge lasting male friendships.

How to rise to the top of the group, or how to be dominant without directly threatening or using violence. The way guys constantly keep each other in check using humor, making it possible to disagree or critique each other while saving face. The power of silence for building respect. The power of conversation for building respect. Creating cohesiveness in male groups. Weighing your personal morals against the good of the group. When to call people out and when to keep your mouth shut. Following the ettiquete of being the "new guy" in a new group without coming across as a bitch.

We all have our own ways of dealing with these issues, but they are all things guys face when they're around each other a lot.

To draw from my own experiences as an example, I'm very social, but I'm introverted too and grow quickly weary of the constant power plays, debating, and politics that go on when groups of men live and work together. Part of me understands this is just something you need to learn if you want to be successful in these types of situations, but I simply don't have the patience and would rather head off on my own when I get frustrated.

My mind just isn't political enough (or patient enough) to play the game, so I lone wolf a lot instead. Which I don't mind.

I always had friends, but I was often the guy who was friends with all groups rather than just one, and I'd come and go from group to group to maintain excitement and avoid stagnation or getting caught up in drama. Having the ability to do this is valuable in itself, but it's not everything.

Living abroad, moving from country to country, and completely separating myself from other Westerners has only further atrophied my interpersonal skills in this regard - I've embraced my nature, but I've rejected the world in the process. Most of my friendships with Asians guys are very different because the conversation is so limited, and odd interactions are so expected as to be brushed off when they occurr.

I also seem to do better with one-on-one male friendships. I refuse to blindly follow or blindly back people, and I'm very choosy about who becomes my "brother in arms." So I tend to form a really strong bond with one guy, and we end up becoming almost inseparable, spend a ton of time together. I value these types of friendships, but there is only so much power in a group of two.

There must be reading material on these issues out there, but I imagine there's not much in a society so focused on the female. Maybe some old philisophy teachers talked about this stuff a lot?

I feel like "The Way of Men" touched on male social dynamics, but it didn't go into the how and the deeper intricacies of day-to-day interaction.

Discuss.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #2

I considered this throughout the day, and it occurred to me that I was overthinking it. Most texts written about power dynamics, politics, and teamwork are actually books about power dynamics, politics, and teamwork in the realm of men. They just don't say so specifically.

In the past, this was because it was obvious the readers would be men. Nowadays, they don't say it because feminists would whine about it and they've got to walk the "he and she" PC line.

Realizing this, I downloaded 48 Laws of Power.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #3

BB, I have wanted this too, and I think there is a lot out there, especially traditional business and self help writing, especially in the 70's and 80's, when the 'self-help' market really started to take off. The writing at this time was still at a much higher level, and the writers themselves were much smarter and wrote to their reader in a much more practical, intelligent way. Zig Ziglar, Peter Drucker, Jim Rohn, early Wayne Dyer(the audio is gold) and others really built that industry, but wrote and spoke in a much more practical and smart way. I feel like these earlier works didn't insult the readers intelligence, and were actually written by very smart and highly accomplished men(Greatest Generation), so it came from a place of true leadership and accomplishment, not some douchebag that can churn out 50K words every few weeks.

Post: #4

(11-29-2014 09:30 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I considered this throughout the day, and it occurred to me that I was overthinking it. Most texts written about power dynamics, politics, and teamwork are actually books about power dynamics, politics, and teamwork in the realm of men. They just don't say so specifically.

In the past, this was because it was obvious the readers would be men. Nowadays, they don't say it because feminists would whine about it and they've got to walk the "he and she" PC line.

Realizing this, I downloaded 48 Laws of Power.

I was just about to say you need Greene's work.

I actually prefer the Power book of his.

Post: #5

I would also recommend The Prince as the ultimate "power book".

It's as true today as 500 years ago.

Sometimes the oldies are the besties.

Post: #6

Robert Greene is excellent on social dynamics.

Robert Greene often quotes Sun Tzu in his work.

Sun Tzu's book 'The Art of War' is a classic text about how to prevail in any situation where you are in conflict with others. It talks about the importance of knowing yourself, your enemy, the environment, the importance of correct timing and grounding your actions in rationality not emotion.

Post: #7

BB I would recommend that Solomon pdf, that's pretty good as is Jack Donovan's book.

Post: #8

Art of manliness did a series on honor. Google it. Good read.