Post: #1

I put down some thoughts I have about the society and world we life theses days. Hope the grammar is not too bad. I also did not touch the migrant invasion topic direct even its an issue that's based on the situation we face in our societies today.

Do western civilization weaken us?

Even before the migrant invasion of Europe I was thinking about the struggles we face these days in our western societies. Some say we get weak and decadent and I don’t see a lot to deny that. I don’t want to jump on the train of cultural pessimism. I see it more as a development of our society that went too far and lead to disconnection with your selves. Most of you know the movie fight club, where they talk about a generation without purpose.

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Gender Mainstream, so called equal rights, liquid genders, anti male feminism and now a cultural invasion. Where do we men stand? Be little drones that get a job to pay taxes for the system. A system that use those taxes to work against us? What is our part in these days? To whom we can give our loyalty, our masculinity? Even more, what’s masculinity these days? A society that try to castrate everything that is seen manly? That abuse us to be work slaves? To women that give us the feeling they don’t need us, or if so just for their entertainment? A new pair of shoes that can put back in the cabinet when no longer needed? What’s with the brotherhood of men? How many of you are lone wolves that feel they miss something in life? A deeper purpose? You lost your connection to this kind of reality we face today. Because deep inside you feel, it’s not “real”.

I’m a reader of Robert E. Howards Conan. Conan is a brute barbarian and deals with civilization. Howards believe that what we call civilization is a mask that we use to hide the “real” world. If order is destroyed, what’s left of us? It’s the age of strife and we lost our souls. Our brain, our body is not made for our modern life, for all this technology. How many people fell the disconnection? That there is something wrong? Our genetics did not keep track with the technological evolution. Humans live in gangs, tribes. They are individuals but also social beings. To survive we had to stand together. A gang, a tribe, a group. Everyone had a task for the benefit of the group. The goal was to survive, deal with other gangs and fight those ore trade. Later those gangs get shaped into tribes or even more kingdoms. Later into nations. And now the next goal is the global universal human being? Are we just a giant ant colony? The organization to higher societies did lead to an improvement but it was still slow. Even inside a kingdom most people did stick to their local community. Get their reputation and their duties from this local level. The big change came with the first industrial revolution. Before that life was hard for most and did not change much. You had be bound mostly to your local community. After the industrialization nations did rise in a never known speed before. They got hungry for more and more resources. International trade and colonialism did grew. Still live was hard for most.

Since the 1950s the western world did manage it to raise the standards of many. Capitalism spread all over the world and today even the poorest people live longer and can afford more. But what does it mean to western societies? Before that everyone had a task, also most people tried to make a living and improve the standard of living. Start a family, survive and maybe improve the social status. That was the main goal but it did change. Our generation did grow up in a world of abundance. For young people there is no struggle of survive, there is no more wealth they can gain. They lack nothing. But they also have no more goal. No more purpose. Economist elites talk a lot about that the economy has to grow. It’s their main goal but even if so, a lot of the wealth don’t reach the people any more.

We face times of changes. There is no purpose for any longer. No fights and social status to gain in small groups or tribes. We are wheels of a big machine. Unlike the past where we had the promise to gain something from the wealth and improve by social status, today there is nothing like this. What do we gain? A better job, more money. Always more. But must people feel empty because they lack nothing. Their emotional and spiritual live do not improve. All the stuff that we can consume is an illusion to the emptiness in our souls. We reach a point in mankind where we actual have not to fight anymore, no more hard labor for most of us. Still we feel like trapped in a big machine that offers nothing for us. Everything become relative. People turn away from the state, they go back to the historical state where they found groups and that give them a meaning. They fight for justice and equality. They have raging anger against the system that did gave them freedom and wealth but never did feed their souls.

People want to feel something and this is why they turn mad and feel offended by everything. They have concerns, worries and many other trivial stuff. But at least it let feel them something. Women do not depend on men anymore and men have no longer a call of duty. Get a decent job, start a family, try to improve the standard of living. This all seems more far away than ever. Still this is what most people aim for. Why did it get so hard? With all the wealth and personal freedom we have today, that no generation before us had?

Is it the lack of struggle that steal our purpose? Get we driven away by arbitrariness. We are have no longer a connection to our group, our tribe or even our nation. We did become consuming individuals whose only goal is to satisfy the needs that advertise create inside us. No words of honor, no tribe members that check our actions to keep the frame. The social norms are erasing. When there is no more check for antisocial behavior because we are all disconnected individuals we lost something. We feel it today that the word of a man becomes worthless, even more his action is needless. His only goal is to be a work slave for global companies. The value of a women get lost by complete freedom. Even more the mentality to try everything. Women now should give up their meaning by become work slaves like men, career women is the ultimate goal and till then have as much fun as you can. Men turn into video games and isolate more and more.
The more we are isolated, the less local boundaries and traditions we have. The more we are like a falling leave and not the roots of the tree. Little puppets that can be replaced and move around. No local community that care for us anymore. Just hunt the dream that you can make it when you just give everything to the corporations and the advertisement.

We did not gain freedom, we get lost at some point. If everything is possible nothing is from value anymore. Social boundaries become useless when they are seen as consuming products that fit now into our life. Later we get rid of them when our situation change. Where is the moment where we feel our actions matter? Where we matter, where we can contribute something and get back the feeling of the collective group we care about? Our society is in a deep crisis. It’s a spiritual crisis because the old ideas of economic grow, more personal freedom and everything is possible do not longer work.

It’s up to us to gain back the control over our lives. Bring back values we care for. That give us old and boundaries. Live in communities where we are integrated and get respect. But how do we manage that? What steps we have to take?

Post: #2

Well I suppose that is the main question this comunity and RoK is trying to answer. Look at the lifesryle forum and RoK, the advise here is to try and unplug from the system, start a business, become location independant, start a tribe, all things you shoild think about actioning.

Post: #3

By western civilization, i assume you mean Anglo-Saxon mercantile model. Well it does, it seems to be an unanimous conclusion by entirety of right wing thought.

But west has come to the point of having multiple meanings:

Geographic: Europe and Western Europe
Religious: Christian Europe or Non-Orthodox Europe
Cultural: Greco-Roman Europe, or Charlemagne Europe
Political: Anglo-Saxon mercantile model of Western Hemisphere, or Germanic, Industrial, continental model of Western development.

Which of these meanings is an individual to use as a phenomenon behind the word "western" depends on his worldview, ideals and upbringing.

Post: #4

Globalism harms the people who ironically tend to support it the most. If you have a pioneer mindset and are committed to searching for truth or some sort of absolutism. Then this period we live in, gives you a fantastic opportunity to do so, mainly because in the West, nothing means anything nowadays. You need to obtain a high degree of strength or imagination, to design your own life. Simply because the status quo is so bizarre and alien to anyone who has a masculine centre.

Post: #5

It's less Western civilisation that weakens us so much as its technology. From the moment we learned to generate fire and, more importantly, control it, we have slowly beaten down the natural world such that it no longer poses a credible threat or control to us. Literally the only thing that is checking humanity's spread is the vast gulf between the planets, let alone the stars, and given sufficient time -- particularly now that we've detected gravity waves -- eventually that barrier will fall as well.

We are, as far as we know, the only beings in the cosmos to be capable of self-awareness, of sapience as distinct from sentience. Our biological chassis upon which rests our consciousness is essentially that of a primate. Edward Fredkin in Machines Who Think says thus of that chassis:

Quote:“There is a popular view that the human mind is this fantastic thing that most of us are just barely using – 5 or 10 percent of its capacity. If we could only unleash the whole human mind and all its powers, we’d be supermen. Now my notion is that for an ordinary person to get along in society in a conventional way requires about 110 percent of the capacity of the human mind, causing breakdowns and troubles of various sorts. Basically, the human mind is not most like a god or most like a computer. It’s most like the mind of a chimpanzee and most of what’s there isn’t designed for living in high society but for getting along in the jungle or out in the fields.”

That chassis craves conflict, struggle, challenge, and perhaps most important of all, initiation. You can find this theme throughout most of the Manosphere 1.0 literature, from Iron John through to Australian author Steve Biddulph's work and elsewhere. Most of these things are actually difficult to find now in our society primarily because of our technology, and secondarily because of our quaint self-concept of humanity as universally rational. No rational person possessed of technology to Western standards would consider credible the idea of dropping off a 15 year old kid into a wilderness and asking him to survive there. Or expecting a 15 year old kid to be prepared to go to war.

Western society has destroyed childhood as a concept (although to be frank it didn't exist as a real, defensible stage in life until Charles Dickens came along) but ironically our technology prolongs our adolescence, steals away initiation rituals. And unfortunately consumerism would prefer us as eternal adolescents, because adolescents do not exercise careful judgment and are keen to go along with trends.

If you would restore manhood, masculinity, leaving aside all the other essential steps -- lifting, learning, living -- you must restore the initiation, the societal marker that says "From this day forth, you are no longer a child, but an adult, and expected to assume adult responsibilities." This need is driven deep into the male soul.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #6

That's such a vague question. What part of it do you think weakens us?

I've made my position on this clear before, but I think it's primary democracy that's creating the malaise. Instead of producting or at least just consuming, people are increasingly engaged in politics -- how to control other people or how to defend from them controlling you. The Trump thread is a great illustrator of this -- it's like all the energy from the rest of the forum has been sucked into that thread. We all recognize how massively important it is under democracy to get a friendly leader instead of a hostile one, that we dedicate such interest in it instead of just things we're individually in control of over ourselves.

Western culture has not always been absolute democratic, and it will not continue to be and survive. Under an king there may be problems, but the following are not normally them:
- Massive welfare state where single mothers get subsidized with the loot of hardworking saps
- Peacetime taxes around 50%
- Social justice freaks jacked up on antidepressants and neon hair stirring up shit all the time
- Encouraging mass immigration of hostile foreign nations
- Demanding acceptance of sexual deviants
- Constant heavy-duty pandering to ethnic and religious minorities
- Men being demonized and all round treated like shit

Democracy is the big lie. Either Europe returns to the classical 'king + nobles + electorate of land-holding men' constitution, and America returns to a heavily devolved constitution, or they're both going to shit sooner rather than later.

All of the other stuff about hedonism and lack of purpose would fade out under a restoration of classical western constitutions. Purpose is "winning", which is always relative, and no amount of luxury can satisfy the loser who can't get a woman's affection, so he will always compete to win from that fixed supply of affection. It's when he's demoralized by a corrupt leftism-ridden democratic society that he is weakened from his natural purposeful male self.

Post: #7

It's a culmination of the following:

loss of community spirit and solidarity (see: Bowling Alone, by Robert Putman), uncontrolled mass immigration, rampant consumerism, lack of jobs (off shoring), the loss of mechanisms like the church/family unit, etc, which had a stabilizing effect on society (now non existent), feminism, and now people seeking a hedonistic lifestyle.

Btw, I see your signature re Theodore Dalrymple. He's a great writer, and I enjoyed some of his works (especially his views re drug addiction).

Post: #8

With the western world I mean everything from Australia, New Zealand, western Europe to the USA and Canada. We face all the same issues more or less. Disconnection of people, the local tribe / community and an ideology that enforce us to deny our culture and our roots. The boundaries of manhood and family and replace it with a consumer ideology that has no deeper values.

Post: #9

I point a finger at wealth, materialism, and decadence. Not that these things are intrinsically evil, but that as Western civilization has ceased fighting for its survival against existential threats, it became soft, lazy, obsessed with the trivial rather than the important.

Many commentators have said that only a decayed, degraded society could spend effort worrying about 'manspreading,' 'trigger warnings,' and 'safe spaces' whilst barbarians are literally destroying them in plain sight. The Morlock/Eloi analogy is very apt here.

Post: #10

They weaken some
They let others thrive
Life is in your hands

Post: #11

(03-25-2016 11:49 AM)Druber Wrote:  It's a culmination of the following:

loss of community spirit and solidarity (see: Bowling Alone, by Robert Putman), uncontrolled mass immigration, rampant consumerism, lack of jobs (off shoring), the loss of mechanisms like the church/family unit, etc, which had a stabilizing effect on society (now non existent), feminism, and now people seeking a hedonistic lifestyle.

Also known as liberalism.

Post: #12

(03-25-2016 08:25 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Democracy is the big lie. Either Europe returns to the classical 'king + nobles + electorate of land-holding men' constitution, and America returns to a heavily devolved constitution, or they're both going to shit sooner rather than later.

I think both things will happen in the foreseeable future. First we'll have economic collapse and barbarian invasions (this is already happening), and then, after shit hits the fan and modern Western civilization falls apart, a restoration of traditional values and return to what you outlined.

The way I see it, events will unfold in a way similar to the collapse of the Roman Empire 16 centuries ago. All of this has happened before and it will happen again.

Post: #13

I recently moved back to the West, namely the U.K. I can say on the whole that it is defiantly more artificial and nonsensical here than in the East. For me personally the whole hook up culture, pornography, music television, modern culture makes me feel nauseous. Take note this is coming from a man in his mid 20s. Men truly are weak here and look very confused plus there is a racial component brought in by multiculturalism which makes things more confusing and divided.

I have noticed a white male v black male dichotomy. Which is perpetuated by modern American culture which is essentially British culture nowadays. Attractive young women especially from working class backgrounds will go for black men. Mainly because the black men are the only ones who have a shred of masculinity (although that is not saying much I must add). In the music videos that the masses watch, they are the ones rapping about 'smashing bitches' and making money. Where as the softy effeminate white guys sing about 'making love' and 'wanting to dance with you' etc. There does seem to be a certain level of disdain shown by the white english girls directed towards the alpha white men, who they feel have abandoned them.

The general population of men here are very weak, either the working class lads who have a more practical assertive way of living. Are wasting their valuable time by chasing after low quality women in the bars and clubs in British town centres. They will be doing this until their early 20s. The middle class men are throwing themselves under the train of progressiveness and almost accepting their pathetic post modern state of being.

However there is a third way of guys which are a minority but seem to be moving towards the light. By creating themselves, moving abroad, or taking up careers which are more challenging and masculine. I.e. Military service, Police, Special trade.

So back to the topic, I would say for sure that Western civilisation at present does have a weakening effect on people. Especially the conflicting bombardment of sexuality but at the same time, no promise of long term commitment. This polygamous lifestyle, leads to men being distracted during vital times of their lives. And it leads to the women getting too much power over men and resenting themselves and the men for it in the long term.

I made this point before, that it is absolutely essential to create your own cultural bubble while you are here. This may involve being lonely, but before long people will gravitate towards you. As they can sense that grounded energy you are giving off. Western culture at present really does try to throw people off from being grounded, and almost present discipline or hard work, principle; all of these masculine virtues as almost being irrelevant in today's 'free world'.

It's time to harden up and live hardest by these principles of self improvement and finding truth. Don't give into the relentless attempts to make you immature or negligent of your purpose. As for women, either find a quick solution to your sexual urges and find a LTR or woman to start a family with once you become the man who is able to snag a high value woman. Chances are she will be abroad but arrangements can be made. This is just the world we live in now, men can adapt and harden themselves to it, or cry and complain. Its a decision everyone is making subconsciously now.