Post: #1

I'm in my late 40s. I've been into fitness for about a decade, mostly weight training and various Beachbody programs like the P90X and the Insanity series. I'm tall and lean, a bit of a hard gainer, but I managed to put on some decent muscle in recent years by lifting hard and forcing myself to eat at least 4,000 calories a day.

Recently I started to develop pretty bad back pain (in my upper back, strangely enough) so I decided to stop lifting completely for a month and just do Insanity workouts, alternating with a bit of yoga and other isometric workouts. All pretty intense stuff, but bodyweight only. I also started 16-8 intermittent fasting per P. D. Mangan's advice at http://roguehealthandfitness.com about two months ago.

The results from the combination of fasting and the HIIT Insanity workouts have been good. Energy levels are up, I feel great, and I'm seeing definition in my abs again. I'm particularly excited about the latter, since having decent abs at my age is not easy.

The downside is that I'm getting pretty thin. I think I'll be ready to lift again soon, and ideally I'd like to do maybe three lifting workouts and two Insanity workouts a week, but I'm concerned that if I keep going with the HIIT workouts I'll be sabotaging any effort to build muscle and strength. I know there are some pretty knowledgeable people on here, so any advice is very welcome.

Post: #2

Therein lies the predicament of the natural lifter, you'll reduce muscle mass as you reduce bf, with the muscle mass reduction being more pronounced with ageing.

At your age, have you looked into TRT? (or even a slightly higher the normal TRT dosage, but less than a cycle dosage). With good dieting and disciplined training, you'll make your gains and be able to maintain them alongside a decently low bf% - not to say you won't still lose some lean muscle when you cut when on test, but you'll have a better chance of achieving the desired result.

Post: #3

I would test your Testosterone levels first before you run out and get on it. Some men are just born with higher testosterone, its just a sad fact of genetics. Test yours first before getting TRT.

Post: #4

(05-21-2017 09:27 AM)Vaun Wrote:  I would test your Testosterone levels first before you run out and get on it. Some men are just born with higher testosterone, its just a sad fact of genetics. Test yours first before getting TRT.

I'm in one of the more backwards countries in Central America for the foreseeable future, so getting my T levels checked might have to wait until I eventually move somewhere a little more advanced, but still, good idea.

I don't know a lot about TRT but what I've heard sounds amazing. My two main concerns about it are:

1) Cost. It's my understanding that it is pretty expensive.
2) Dependency. Seems like if you do it and reap the benefits I've heard guys talk about, it would be very depressing to ever stop. My understanding is that TRT is basically legal steroids, so I would imagine that you lose the benefits when you stop doing it.

Because of the above I try to keep my T levels as high as possible through natural methods like getting enough sleep and eating a lot of broccoli.

Post: #5

^Even the most backwards shit holes should have clinics where you can get blood work done for cheap. Keep us posted on your progress, I lasted about 15 minutes the only time I tried an Insanity workout, they are pretty intense! I actually bought the DVD set a couple of months ago but haven't gotten around to starting it.

Post: #6

As a follow-up, I ended up deciding on this workout plan:

Day 1: Chest and Arms
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Back, Shoulders, Triceps
Day 4: Insanity Max 30 (Sweat Intervals)
Day 5: Rest

Repeat for four to six weeks, then change up the exercises in the weight training works and pick a different IM30 workout. All of these workouts are around 30 minutes in length, intense with very little rest. Been doing this for about three weeks now and so far I'm liking the results. I started back on creatine when I started this, which seems to be helping with strength and endurance and at least preventing me from getting thinner. Adding the HIIT workouts along with intermittent fasting is really ripping the fat off my body, even though my diet is still not 100% what it should be (tough to cook at much as I'd like with a little baby in the house).

Post: #7

How much muscle are you losing following this protocal? Its my guess it's a bit too much. Your program seems a lot on your CNS (central nervous system) and after 8 weeks on it, may see significant muscle loss (yes along with fat) but the key is perserving as much muscle as possible while losing as much fat as possible. If your anywhere in the 1:1 ration (1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle loss) than your diet is off. Keep a close eye on your macro's. The more protein the better. Hell if your disciplined enough and can get 85% of your calories from protein, I would recommend that. If not, 1.5grams of protein per bodyweight would be ideal with a program like yours.

Post: #8

(06-12-2017 12:17 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  How much muscle are you losing following this protocal? Its my guess it's a bit too much. Your program seems a lot on your CNS (central nervous system) and after 8 weeks on it, may see significant muscle loss (yes along with fat) but the key is perserving as much muscle as possible while losing as much fat as possible. If your anywhere in the 1:1 ration (1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle loss) than your diet is off. Keep a close eye on your macro's. The more protein the better. Hell if your disciplined enough and can get 85% of your calories from protein, I would recommend that. If not, 1.5grams of protein per bodyweight would be ideal with a program like yours.

So far I'm gradually getting stronger, so I'm guessing I'm not losing muscle. I'm gradually gaining weight too, after losing five or six pounds rapidly when I implemented intermittent fasting about a month before I started my current program, and my waistline is staying about the same, which to me says I'm gaining muscle and losing fat.

Still, what would you do differently as far as a training program? I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff and am always open to suggestions.

About the protein, a dirty secret: I don't eat meat. Exceptions for game meat and wild caught fish, but I can't get any of that here in rural Central America. All of my protein comes from eggs, dairy, legumes, brown rice, leafy greens, etc. so it would be very hard to get up to 85%. Not a popular diet plan here, I realize, but there are a lot of very muscular trainers on youtube who claim to follow a diet similar to mine ("Get huge on glorious carbs" says one, a massive Swedish dude who claims to be 98% vegan). I've had guys in the ROK comments section claim it's all a lie, but they've never been able to explain what the motivation for the deception would be.

Post: #9

(06-12-2017 10:19 PM)bucky Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 12:17 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  How much muscle are you losing following this protocal? Its my guess it's a bit too much. Your program seems a lot on your CNS (central nervous system) and after 8 weeks on it, may see significant muscle loss (yes along with fat) but the key is perserving as much muscle as possible while losing as much fat as possible. If your anywhere in the 1:1 ration (1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle loss) than your diet is off. Keep a close eye on your macro's. The more protein the better. Hell if your disciplined enough and can get 85% of your calories from protein, I would recommend that. If not, 1.5grams of protein per bodyweight would be ideal with a program like yours.

So far I'm gradually getting stronger, so I'm guessing I'm not losing muscle. I'm gradually gaining weight too, after losing five or six pounds rapidly when I implemented intermittent fasting about a month before I started my current program, and my waistline is staying about the same, which to me says I'm gaining muscle and losing fat.

Still, what would you do differently as far as a training program? I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff and am always open to suggestions.

About the protein, a dirty secret: I don't eat meat. Exceptions for game meat and wild caught fish, but I can't get any of that here in rural Central America. All of my protein comes from eggs, dairy, legumes, brown rice, leafy greens, etc. so it would be very hard to get up to 85%. Not a popular diet plan here, I realize, but there are a lot of very muscular trainers on youtube who claim to follow a diet similar to mine ("Get huge on glorious carbs" says one, a massive Swedish dude who claims to be 98% vegan). I've had guys in the ROK comments section claim it's all a lie, but they've never been able to explain what the motivation for the deception would be.

You can build muscle on a low protein diet. It's just a lot harder. There are a lot of factors involved, such as your age and hormonal profile.

Some people can pull it off, while others will be far more likely to put on more fat than muscle. In general, the more naturally muscular you are, the better you'll respond to that style of eating (along with any other style). For a naturally beta-built person, this style of eating tends to really suck.

Post: #10

(06-12-2017 11:09 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 10:19 PM)bucky Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 12:17 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  How much muscle are you losing following this protocal? Its my guess it's a bit too much. Your program seems a lot on your CNS (central nervous system) and after 8 weeks on it, may see significant muscle loss (yes along with fat) but the key is perserving as much muscle as possible while losing as much fat as possible. If your anywhere in the 1:1 ration (1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle loss) than your diet is off. Keep a close eye on your macro's. The more protein the better. Hell if your disciplined enough and can get 85% of your calories from protein, I would recommend that. If not, 1.5grams of protein per bodyweight would be ideal with a program like yours.

So far I'm gradually getting stronger, so I'm guessing I'm not losing muscle. I'm gradually gaining weight too, after losing five or six pounds rapidly when I implemented intermittent fasting about a month before I started my current program, and my waistline is staying about the same, which to me says I'm gaining muscle and losing fat.

Still, what would you do differently as far as a training program? I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff and am always open to suggestions.

About the protein, a dirty secret: I don't eat meat. Exceptions for game meat and wild caught fish, but I can't get any of that here in rural Central America. All of my protein comes from eggs, dairy, legumes, brown rice, leafy greens, etc. so it would be very hard to get up to 85%. Not a popular diet plan here, I realize, but there are a lot of very muscular trainers on youtube who claim to follow a diet similar to mine ("Get huge on glorious carbs" says one, a massive Swedish dude who claims to be 98% vegan). I've had guys in the ROK comments section claim it's all a lie, but they've never been able to explain what the motivation for the deception would be.

You can build muscle on a low protein diet. It's just a lot harder. There are a lot of factors involved, such as your age and hormonal profile.

Some people can pull it off, while others will be far more likely to put on more fat than muscle. In general, the more naturally muscular you are, the better you'll respond to that style of eating (along with any other style). For a naturally beta-built person, this style of eating tends to really suck.

Like I said, the fact that I'm getting stronger while my waist is saying the same size suggests to me that I am building muscle.

Post: #11

Don't guess your body fat %. Most people are dead wrong.

http://www.topendsports.com/testing/body...arillo.htm
The parillo method is the most accurate method which closely correlates to a dexa scan. I personally use this method. Just add about 6% to your bf% when its all said and done.

Concerning your diet, just try your very best to eat as much protein as humanly possible. Fuck what those dudes on youtube are saying. There all on gear, 100% of them. For the nost part, this forum is comprised of a group of no bs dudes and i'm one of them. I would trust these boards before any youtube bs. Watch your carbs, brown rice is not a good source of protein, however it is an excellent source of complex carbs. 1/2-1 cup of brown rice on a cut should fare you well if your under 205lbs.

What would I do diffrent as far as your training program? First see if this is working for you by taking your measurements for 90 days. If your anywhere near a 1:1 ratio (as i explained earlier) Change something. I would say lower calories (a bit) maybe by 400 per day depending on your size, diet etc... this drop in calories should come from your carb intake on non training days. I would drop the insanity and add a brisk walk everyother day. The walk should help preserve more muscle mass than that insanity program. I personally do 0 cardio. My only cardio is a brisk walk every 3rd day of the week. My calories are low enough to allow 0 cardio. You see, your diet dictates everything. I'm 5-6 205lbs with 7% bf if your wondering. I take gear as well. Good luck.