Post: #1

I had been having some shoulder pain during workouts so I switched to a narrower grip for bench press. Unfortunately, this made it worse and I had to stay away from the gym for about 4 weeks.

I recently restarted going back to the gym but have been avoiding the bench press. I was wondering if I could get some input from you guys so that I can start using the correct form and avoid shoulder injury. Is a wider grip actually better than a narrower grip? Is it better to do the bench press right after a warmup, or should I do this after a few other exercises? Thanks a lot.

Post: #2

Just stop bench pressing altogether. It's a terrible exercise and it's going to destroy your shoulders if you keep at it.

Slow pushups, cable flies, dumbbell bench and pec deck will give you all the chest development you need. Standing overhead press, bent over rows, dips and pullups develop the rest of the upper body.

The barbell flat bench has got to be the worst exercise in existence. It literally kills people. It fucks up the shoulders of countless others every year. It's probably taken more men out of the gym permanently than injuries from every other exercise combined. What's worse is that doing it provides zero benefit that you can't obtain from other less dangerous exercises. So you have guys dying and maiming themselves needlessly. It's really stupid. Take care of your shoulders if you want to be lifting long term.

Post: #3

Are you retracting your scapula? Squeeze dem shoulder blades

Are you keeping your elbows tight or do you let them flair? Keep em tight so you recruit your triceps more.

Are you feet on the ground or are your heels raised? I know some people like to do the raised heel style, but I find keeping my feet flat on the floor helps keep my core stable.

Are you arching your back slightly?

I run through those 4 things before benching and I have had 0 problems. I could be one of the blessed perfect shoulders master race--or my technique could be good. I also do dips 3-4 times a week and do lots of pressing movements from the shoulders, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

My advice:

Don't bench for a while and let your shoulders heal up. In the meantime do Dumbbell bench press, hammer strength chest, pec deck and other things.

Once your shoulders are feeling better, drop down to 50% of what you were doing before and drill your technique. Get a friend to look at your technique and tell you if there is any part of the lift that looks weird.

If he does notice weird shit, practice those motions in a smith machine, but only those parts. If you have trouble pressing it up from the bottom position, practice just that motion. If you have trouble with locking it out safely, then practice lockouts.

You have to be methodical about this stuff.

At the end of the day, though, you could be one of those guys who has a really bad time benching. I know a few. I have short arms and a naturally sorta solid chest so there's that.

Post: #4

(11-06-2017 08:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Just stop bench pressing altogether. It's a terrible exercise and it's going to destroy your shoulders if you keep at it.

Slow pushups, cable flies, dumbbell bench and pec deck will give you all the chest development you need. Standing overhead press, bent over rows, dips and pullups develop the rest of the upper body.

The barbell flat bench has got to be the worst exercise in existence. It literally kills people. It fucks up the shoulders of countless others every year. It's probably taken more men out of the gym permanently than injuries from every other exercise combined. What's worse is that doing it provides zero benefit that you can't obtain from other less dangerous exercises. So you have guys dying and maiming themselves needlessly. It's really stupid. Take care of your shoulders if you want to be lifting long term.

Glad you brought this up. I usually stick to weighted dips, pushups, and dumbell presses and only recently began to work the barbell bench again. Was wondering why my shoulders have been feeling a bit off lately.

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Post: #5

The most common reason for this is that you are flaring your elbows too much. If a bird's-eye view of you while benching makes you look like a T, then you should focus on tucking your elbows closer to 45 degrees. The easiest way to do this is to touch lower on your chest.

Post: #6

Bench is a rough exercise on the body.

While I love to bench heavy, I'll admit that it has its drawbacks.

You can build your chest with bench using a much lower weight. The key is an ultra slow negative, stopping before you hit bottom, and focusing on contracting and pushing with the pectorals. This usually requires you to lower the weight dramatically.

Benching with the heaviest weight you can tends to not create as much hypertrophy in the pecs. The shoulders and triceps end up taking most of the beating.

If you can learn to just use it as a way to contract your pecs rather than generate overall power it's not a bad lift at all.

Post: #7

Weighted dips are actually a very technical lift and are very challenging to learn without risking injury to your shoulders. I see people fucking them up everyday, probably easier to hurt yourself from them than bench. Great exercise, but you really need to be careful, and preferably do them with a side mirror to make sure you are doing them right.

Anyway OP, your question about wider or narrower grip is relative to how you are doing them now, and there are several ways all of which are valid. I would post a video on a subreddit like fitness or something, or find a trainer since you really need someone to watch you. And yes, you should definitely warm up before doing this excercise or any other heavy lifts. I use 2.5 or 5 pound weights, and do a variety of movements. This lubricates your joints. If you go straight into heavy lifts without doing this, you are essentially driving your car without oil. Over time this will damage your joints and can lead to serious injuries or tennis elbow. Make sure to stretch your wrists too, especially if you are doing any pull exercises.

Post: #8

(11-06-2017 10:36 PM)Steelex Wrote:  Bench is a rough exercise on the body.

While I love to bench heavy, I'll admit that it has its drawbacks.

You can build your chest with bench using a much lower weight. The key is an ultra slow negative, stopping before you hit bottom, and focusing on contracting and pushing with the pectorals. This usually requires you to lower the weight dramatically.

Benching with the heaviest weight you can tends to not create as much hypertrophy in the pecs. The shoulders and triceps end up taking most of the beating.

If you can learn to just use it as a way to contract your pecs rather than generate overall power it's not a bad lift at all.

So if I'm doing 155 3x8, should I be doing something closer to 135 3x12? Main goal is hypertrophy, followed by strength. I was hitting a plateau at 3x5.

Post: #9

It's less about the number of reps and more about the amount of time your muscles are under tension. A 3x8 where you go slowly vs a 3 by 12 where you go faster, so that both sets take the same amount of time and use the same weight, will have about the same affect. So yeah, if you can do that super slow negative at 155 go ahead, if not drop the weight. Whichever weight you pick, go slow enough that it's a fucking challenge.

**edit** oops sorry now see that wasn't directed at me

Post: #10

Try dropping it to 95 lbs but lower it with a 4-5 count negative, pause at the bottom, then back up while focusing on pushing the weight with your chest and getting a contraction at the top. Just get 3-4 sets of as many as you as you can. The burn and stretch in your chest is going to be the limiting factor here.

If bringing it down all the way causes shoulder strain, you can stop an inch or two above your chest. Lower is better for growth, but it's more important to have healthy shoulders.

Post: #11

(11-06-2017 08:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Just stop bench pressing altogether. It's a terrible exercise and it's going to destroy your shoulders if you keep at it.

Slow pushups, cable flies, dumbbell bench and pec deck will give you all the chest development you need. Standing overhead press, bent over rows, dips and pullups develop the rest of the upper body.

The barbell flat bench has got to be the worst exercise in existence. It literally kills people. It fucks up the shoulders of countless others every year. It's probably taken more men out of the gym permanently than injuries from every other exercise combined. What's worse is that doing it provides zero benefit that you can't obtain from other less dangerous exercises. So you have guys dying and maiming themselves needlessly. It's really stupid. Take care of your shoulders if you want to be lifting long term.

Thanks a lot for the response guys, really appreciate. I've been thinking about asking for feedback for a while, should have asked sooner: before hurting my shoulder.

The way I have been doing the bench press (before I stopped) was with:
- shoulder blades squeezed
- feet flat on the floor
- slight arch on the back
- conventional grip
- I keep the elbows parallel to my body, is this the correct form?
- is a narrower hold supposed to be less strenuous on the shoulder joints?

Also I cannot bring the barbell down all the way to my lower chest anymore as my left shoulder starts hurting. I can lower the bar to a few inches above my chest though and as soon as the pain starts I push it back up.

If you can point out my mistakes in technique, I'll really appreciate it. Also, if you are aware of a good youtube video with perfect/ideal technique, that'll help me a lot. For reps, I do 3x10 with plates. For warmups I would just do 30 reps without the plates.

If your advice is to drop the bench press altogether, what are the top two exercises you would recommend? I also do lots of pull-ups and chin-ups but once my shoulders start hurting, I can only do those with neutral grip. Thank you for the help.

Post: #12

Few years ago I saw a series of videos from Tim Ferris and one theme was about improving your bench press. He interviewed Mark Bell (has a world record) and he demonstrated how it's done properly.

You can find plenty of videos of him on YouTube but I don't know if they're as good. At least it's easier to learn by watching.

Post: #13

Going to switch to the decline bench for a while to hit my chest (think my tri's are getting enough love), and aim for 3x15 starting at 95# or so with nice, slow negatives. Thanks Steelex

Post: #14

No matter what I did, I always ended up feeling shoulder pain while doing a bench press.
So I just switched to incline bench press and I never felt pain while doing that.
So give the incline bench a try instead.
I don't know if a decline bench will have the same effect, I was under the impression it's a harder way to bench.

Post: #15

The reason I'm going to switch is that flat and incline recruit a lot of triceps and deltoids into the movement, but the decline recruits primarily pecs. I get a fair amount of deltoid and triceps work via OHP and skull crushers, so this should help me gain size.

To add: I don't have shoulder pain...not yet, anyway. And hopefully the high rep scheme helps me build up the supporting muscles and tendons.

I'll do it for 2-3 months and reevaluate.

Open to thoughts and suggestions.

Post: #16

(11-07-2017 05:14 AM)joost Wrote:  Few years ago I saw a series of videos from Tim Ferris and one theme was about improving your bench press. He interviewed Mark Bell (has a world record) and he demonstrated how it's done properly.

You can find plenty of videos of him on YouTube but I don't know if they're as good. At least it's easier to learn by watching.

Thanks joost, I'll check out the Tim Ferris techniques for bench press.

Sancho, that's a great tip. Maybe I should look into inclines to, especially since it seems that your shoulder problems disappeared while on the incline press.

polar, since you don't have any shoulder pain you're probably in better form than I am. If you make your own thread you'll probably get better feedback IMO.

Post: #17

No not Tim Ferriss. It's Mark Bell you need to search for on YouTube. He also invented the Sling Shot, which I've heard helps you train through injuries.

Post: #18

(11-10-2017 05:19 PM)el conquistador Wrote:  No not Tim Ferriss. It's Mark Bell you need to search for on YouTube. He also invented the Sling Shot, which I've heard helps you train through injuries.

Thank you for the note el conquistador. Searching by "Mark Bell bench press" I just found a video titled "The Definitive Guide to Bench Press Like a Beast l Stronger in 30 Days" and feel motivated to improve.

Looks like I have been making tons of errors in my technique and really need to clean it up. I'll look into Sling Shot too as you mentioned, appreciate it.

Post: #19

(11-11-2017 12:01 AM)mcw78912 Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 05:19 PM)el conquistador Wrote:  No not Tim Ferriss. It's Mark Bell you need to search for on YouTube. He also invented the Sling Shot, which I've heard helps you train through injuries.

Thank you for the note el conquistador. Searching by "Mark Bell bench press" I just found a video titled "The Definitive Guide to Bench Press Like a Beast l Stronger in 30 Days" and feel motivated to improve.

Looks like I have been making tons of errors in my technique and really need to clean it up. I'll look into Sling Shot too as you mentioned, appreciate it.

Just got back from the gym and tried incorporating some of the bench press techniques in that video - already seeing improvements and ZERO shoulder pain. Thanks a lot guys.

Post: #20

(11-07-2017 01:13 AM)mcw78912 Wrote:  - I keep the elbows parallel to my body, is this the correct form?
- is a narrower hold supposed to be less strenuous on the shoulder joints?

No, the elbows should not be flared out to "isolate the chest." That puts a ton of stress on the shoulders and will lead to injury.

The narrower grip stresses the triceps more and can relieve shoulder pain. However, it also involves a great amount of shoulder rotation, so it's a temporary fix.

If you have to bench, do so with a moderate grip and make sure to balance it out with pulling exercises.

Post: #21

The most effective and widely taught form for raw bench pressing is to tuck slightly towards the bottom of the movement and then flare as the bar comes several inches of the chest causing the bar to move in a j-curve. If you're tucking through out and not pressing in a j-curve then you're sacrificing a lot of weight by not using the joint at it's optimal line of pull, and it's only really effective for when wearing a bench shirt. If you're flaring throughout the movement then it's a shoulder injury waiting to happen. This video from Wendler is probably the best video around for teaching basic bench form (bench is first exercise):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-_vCDajd-0

Post: #22

(11-12-2017 08:13 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(11-07-2017 01:13 AM)mcw78912 Wrote:  - I keep the elbows parallel to my body, is this the correct form?
- is a narrower hold supposed to be less strenuous on the shoulder joints?

No, the elbows should not be flared out to "isolate the chest." That puts a ton of stress on the shoulders and will lead to injury.

The narrower grip stresses the triceps more and can relieve shoulder pain. However, it also involves a great amount of shoulder rotation, so it's a temporary fix.

If you have to bench, do so with a moderate grip and make sure to balance it out with pulling exercises.

Thanks Truth Teller. I'll try with a moderately wide grip and with elbows not flaring out. The elbow part is a bit confusing as in one of the videos they say to rotate the elbows out while pushing up.

I think one of my big mistakes was to have my arms stay completely perpendicular to my body during the bench press.

Post: #23

(11-13-2017 03:39 PM)Kieran Wrote:  The most effective and widely taught form for raw bench pressing is to tuck slightly towards the bottom of the movement and then flare as the bar comes several inches of the chest causing the bar to move in a j-curve. If you're tucking through out and not pressing in a j-curve then you're sacrificing a lot of weight by not using the joint at it's optimal line of pull, and it's only really effective for when wearing a bench shirt. If you're flaring throughout the movement then it's a shoulder injury waiting to happen. This video from Wendler is probably the best video around for teaching basic bench form (bench is first exercise):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-_vCDajd-0

Thanks for the post Kieren, and the video is very helpful. I kind of see what you mean regarding pressing in a j-curve. I have stayed stagnant at the current weight for about a year; maybe this will help me push harder.

I am only done watching the first 15 mins and this is very helpful for me. He goes into the very basics and explains each step thoroughly, which is exactly what I need to clean up my technique.

Post: #24

(11-06-2017 08:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Just stop bench pressing altogether. It's a terrible exercise and it's going to destroy your shoulders if you keep at it.

Slow pushups, cable flies, dumbbell bench and pec deck will give you all the chest development you need. Standing overhead press, bent over rows, dips and pullups develop the rest of the upper body.

The barbell flat bench has got to be the worst exercise in existence. It literally kills people. It fucks up the shoulders of countless others every year. It's probably taken more men out of the gym permanently than injuries from every other exercise combined. What's worse is that doing it provides zero benefit that you can't obtain from other less dangerous exercises. So you have guys dying and maiming themselves needlessly. It's really stupid. Take care of your shoulders if you want to be lifting long term.

Thanks a lot scorpion for the alternative exercises I can work on. I have never tried dumbbell bench press but I want to try and get started.

Is this a good technique for beginners (2 min video) ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmB1G1K7v94

If not, and you're aware of a video with good dumbbell chest press technique, can you please post the link. Appreciate the help.

Post: #25

(11-06-2017 08:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Just stop bench pressing altogether. It's a terrible exercise and it's going to destroy your shoulders if you keep at it.

Slow pushups, cable flies, dumbbell bench and pec deck will give you all the chest development you need. Standing overhead press, bent over rows, dips and pullups develop the rest of the upper body.

The barbell flat bench has got to be the worst exercise in existence. It literally kills people. It fucks up the shoulders of countless others every year. It's probably taken more men out of the gym permanently than injuries from every other exercise combined. What's worse is that doing it provides zero benefit that you can't obtain from other less dangerous exercises. So you have guys dying and maiming themselves needlessly. It's really stupid. Take care of your shoulders if you want to be lifting long term.

Just thought I'd update: I stopped (barbell) bench press altogether and switched completely to dumbbell press, starting at less than 1/2 the weight but maintaining the same volume through a larger number of sets, and gradually working my way up each month. Shoulder is now completely pain-free. Thanks for the advice, scorpion.