Post: #1

Illiberal democracy is what we see in Russia, Turkey, Hungary and Poland (increasingly so).

I don't care too much for the official definition, so let's make our own.

It is characterized by a majority or near majority party led by a charismatic president.

The ruling party has some degree of political control over media, the judicial system and education system, without compromising rule of law.

No one really calls Putin, Erdogan, Orban, dictators, cause they are not. They are democratically elected strongmen.

I think illiberal democracy is the only short term outcome in the US, which does not lead to separatism and possible civil war. Trump must ascend as a tyrant. It is not without reason that the Roman Republic (upon which model the US was built), had a provision to suspend democracy and have a dictator instead.

What practical steps must Trump take to become lifetime president? He needs to amend the constitution, which requires a solid, majority (?) in Senate/Congress (?).

Second, he needs to curb the media, make it stop telling lies, without directly squashing rule of law and freedom of speech. Probably by using the Hulk Hogan vs Gawker model and making it into law.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound

Post: #2

Nothing can happen before a national crisis of epic proportions happens. The exits are all blocked to fix the situation in a rational way.

Post: #3

Poland or Hungary are no illiberal democracies - the people vote for those parties and at best the ones are countering some of the globo-homo propaganda. Also their statements of "democracy dying" in those countries is just the usual anti-White anti-goy trash-talk and the EU is far more anti-democratic than any of those places.

Russia cannot be managed otherwise than by a KGB shitlord - the power structure is too enmeshed to lead by simple democracy.

Turkey before Erdogan fluctuated between robber-baron capitalism/ tendencies to communism as well as Islamism. Erdogan's economic policies are fine, but he furthers an actual Islamization of the country and this won't end well in the long run.

The US is a special case - with Hungary and Poland it's often the entire party as well as the majority of the people in the coutnry that are shitlords. With Trump it's mainly him while the majority of the Republic Party are globohomo cucks and the people are extremely divided and getting demographically replaced by the day.

Thus this kind of democratic means would not be possible unless with outright dictatorship, which won't happen in the US. People hope at best for a future split along racial balcanized lines. I don't think that this will happen either - the elite would rather brain-chip everyone and roll out 100 mio. combat drones that reign in their system.

Post: #4

It`s usually hyperinflation and the ensuing economic chaos that brings about a dictatorship of some sort. The US is unfortunately heading towards that. The budget deficits are estimated to pass the 1 trillion mark by around 2020-22. And the national debt just keeps on growing. As much as I like Trump`s policies in other areas, he is spending too much, and not really shrinking the size of Government.

   

I think we`re safe as long as Trump remains in office, but I do fear for what will eventually follow. You just can`t keep on spending more that you "earn" (produce) indefinitely. There will probably be some idiot that comes along with a citizen wage promise, or similar concept. Alluring to the masses, but that would trigger uncontrolled inflation and the loss of the dollar.

Post: #5

I'm more concerned with who can take over after Trump.

Which is why I think Trump needs to stay on more than 2 terms and to do that requires a pivot to "illiberal democracy".

Post: #6

(08-11-2018 03:05 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  I'm more concerned with who can take over after Trump.

Which is why I think Trump needs to stay on more than 2 terms and to do that requires a pivot to "illiberal democracy".

That's where you are coming from.

Thing is - that your definition is only met in Russia, but that country was in full collapse. Plus Russia is a special case where they went from monarchy straight to communist tyranny, then instantly to KGB-Jewish-Oligarch rulership. Essentially Russia did not even have 20 years of liberal system left.

Compare that to Turkey which had 80+ years of democratic chance.

Even the other Eastern European countries had longer times to shape their democratic ways and they had far less concentrated power than in Russia.

The US has set democratic ways, but the main issue is simple demographics and a hostile anti-founding-people mindset. There is frankly nothing out there short of a WWIII or an Alien invasion that would help a candidate similar to Trump take office.

Hispanics and blacks will vote overwhelmingly Democrat. And the normal Republicans are mostly globo-homo traitors anyway. Ivanka Trump might run for office someday, but she will be nothing more than a Wallstreet puppet - and likely Democrat.

Canada and the US will be White minority between 2035-2043. Some states will turn Hispanic and shitlib soon enough.

Don't wanna sound defeatist, but the main hope of Identitarian and pro-White circles are a balcanization of the US - something that can only happen after a massive collapse.

Personally I don't think that North America can be retained in the current form. At best what you can hope for is a less benevolent version of Chile - and even that is not applicable since Whites are in the majority there.

Post: #7

(08-10-2018 10:37 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Illiberal democracy is what we see in Russia, Turkey, Hungary and Poland (increasingly so).

I don't care too much for the official definition, so let's make our own.

It is characterized by a majority or near majority party led by a charismatic president.

The ruling party has some degree of political control over media, the judicial system and education system, without compromising rule of law.

No one really calls Putin, Erdogan, Orban, dictators, cause they are not. They are democratically elected strongmen.

I think illiberal democracy is the only short term outcome in the US, which does not lead to separatism and possible civil war. Trump must ascend as a tyrant. It is not without reason that the Roman Republic (upon which model the US was built), had a provision to suspend democracy and have a dictator instead.

What practical steps must Trump take to become lifetime president? He needs to amend the constitution, which requires a solid, majority (?) in Senate/Congress (?).

Second, he needs to curb the media, make it stop telling lies, without directly squashing rule of law and freedom of speech. Probably by using the Hulk Hogan vs Gawker model and making it into law.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound

Trump is pretty old already, He'd be 80 is his 3rd term, and highly likely now even himself anymore. I don't think that's the way to go. However, I think after an 8 year tour of nonstop winning, we'll have a whole crew of guys that have seen his success by putting America first for a change and will be willing to pursue his policies.

Post: #8

What needs to happen for the US to become an "illiberal democracy"?

It already is this, now. How did it happen? Culturally, the US is illiberal - read the "news" because the ruling class embraces racism and fascism. The media willingly advocates for more of it, and defends it. Witness the "storyline" coordination it manifests. Does anyone seriously doubt that son of "Journalist" (SEE Wikipedia) on whatever iteration is operating?

1) A majority of citizens get state checks and depend on government; they love Big Government.

2) US taxation per person reached Euro welfare state levels during the Second Obama admin, around 44% - below Noway but ahead of Japan.

3) Today, the benefits of being a government worker are 50 to 100% greater than private employment, studies at CATO Institute and Heritage Foundation has shown. Very few such employees vote against greater state power. Thus, 96% in Washington, DC voted for the criminal Hillary to be President.

4) Under Obama, the majority of the richest top 10 counties became those around DC - the District of Columbia, the seat of federal power. The US capitol is now the Imperial Center lording over the serfs, like Imperial Rome over the Provinces.

5) The ongoing and unprosecuted "Deep State" coup d'state insuring Ruling Class security and bureaucratic sinecures against a Trump peoples victory...and the entire Ruling Class is dominated by his opponents! (eg, billionaires supported the criminal Hillary over Trump by 20 to 1 ratio.)

6) The Deep State of perennial rule by bureaucrats is aided and abetted by the unconstitutional Administrative State. Trump, like Julius Ceasar shall not be allowed to be "head of state." He will be removed or effectively blocked from power.

You doubt that all THIS amounts to illiberal rule? I could go on with particulars. But I'll let the next election's results speak to the question.

Post: #9

Sadly that may be the only hope to preserve historic America. With continuing demographic change we head ever hurtling towards the tyranny of the majority the founders feared.

Post: #10

DJT would never support this, even if his supporters wished it. He would not view it as MAGA to become a ruler outside the current system, even if he believed his 80 yr old self would be able to win more for America than a different president.

I think his goal is to create a voting majority of whites and non-whites who support the kind of policies he is pushing. Limited immigration for high value immigrants only. Low regulation, low tax, pro-business and pro-worker economic policy. Strong pro-American foreign policy with an "Art of the Deal" negotiation mentality both in the economic sphere and the national security sphere. Strong pro-constitution judiciary.

He wants to leave an America where a controlling political majority will carry on his ideas after he leaves office for decades to come. At least that how I read the man.