Post: #101

I'm currently trying to settle for a debt of 3200 that is a 18 months old. After reading this thread I'm trying to negotiate it at 950$. It didn't go as planned today as I had an email correspondence with the collections agency who was trying to be aggressive and get me to agree on monthly payments. I said no and was firm but respectful saying settling at 950$. The guy got pretty testy bordering on making things personal. I bowed out from the conversation with out giving in to going back forth as ready I was to tell him to go fuck his mom. Any advice on how to proceed. I've read through the thread and seen guys settle at 15%, 25%, 30%. I'm not too experienced with this as I'm a young guy but I have read up on the aggressive tactics that are used. Much respect for any advice or input.

Post: #102

Good job on not letting it get to you, remember....you have all the power as long as they are not garnishing your wages. As soon as he tries to escalate it, tell him to fuck off or you'll hang up. He losses all leverage.

Wait for a bit, they are usually more agreeable near the end of the month/year as they want to meet their quota.

Post: #103

(11-16-2016 08:52 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Good job on not letting it get to you, remember....you have all the power as long as they are not garnishing your wages. As soon as he tries to escalate it, tell him to fuck off or you'll hang up. He losses all leverage.

Wait for a bit, they are usually more agreeable near the end of the month/year as they want to meet their quota.

Funny thing is, it was email correspondence. I actually came into it trying to be reasonable and didn't attack him, as he was just doing a job was my mindset. As soon as I wasn't willing to budge he basically tried to give me a shit test like he had a pussy .

I'm glad I found this thread, I was literally going to pay in full earlier this week but now I realize why give my money away to people who are trying to extort me with interest. I settled with a more decent company the other day for a small (97$ bill) I had no clue about, until it went to collections. That was a smooth process as no one tried to stick their chest out on the phone or any shit like that.

This is the only thing fucking with my credit. I have one credit card with a balance of 0, so it's irritating me that this guy wants to go to war over this shit. But after I did research I realized there's commission involved that's why he's at my neck the way he is.

Post: #104

(11-16-2016 09:27 PM)Mayweather Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 08:52 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Good job on not letting it get to you, remember....you have all the power as long as they are not garnishing your wages. As soon as he tries to escalate it, tell him to fuck off or you'll hang up. He losses all leverage.

Wait for a bit, they are usually more agreeable near the end of the month/year as they want to meet their quota.

Funny thing is, it was email correspondence. I actually came into it trying to be reasonable and didn't attack him, as he was just doing a job was my mindset. As soon as I wasn't willing to budge he basically tried to give me a shit test like he had a pussy .

I'm glad I found this thread, I was literally going to pay in full earlier this week but now I realize why give my money away to people who are trying to extort me with interest. I settled with a more decent company the other day for a small (97$ bill) I had no clue about, until it went to collections. That was a smooth process as no one tried to stick their chest out on the phone or any shit like that.

This is the only thing fucking with my credit. I have one credit card with a balance of 0, so it's irritating me that this guy wants to go to war over this shit. But after I did research I realized there's commission involved that's why he's at my neck the way he is.

Another option you may want to discuss is a pay for delete. My understanding is that if the debt gets "deleted" it reflects better on your credit report/score than a paid in full or paid - settled.

A couple resources:
Page about the practice
Pay for Delete Letter Template

Post: #105

(11-16-2016 10:41 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 09:27 PM)Mayweather Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 08:52 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  snip

snip

Another option you may want to discuss is a pay for delete. My understanding is that if the debt gets "deleted" it reflects better on your credit report/score than a paid in full or paid - settled.

A couple resources:
Page about the practice
Pay for Delete Letter Template

I appreciate you insight Aneroid.

I did come across that in my research. I feel as though this guy is the type that just doesn't give a fuck to put it plainly. I came into the discussion looking to negotiate and settle on something firm but reasonable and he wasn't trying to hear any of what I was saying. He wanted the full balance and then 80%. As soon as he wasn't getting those numbers he went straight in to threats and aggression. "I'll inform the canadian credit bureau you're refusing to pay, you haven't been doing much to pay this off any way" etc. My credit score right now is in the high 600's, and the collection isn't on my credit report currently. I would possibly bring up pay for delete if I spoke to a more reasonable agent, but it seems like these guys play hard ball. I googled the name of the agency and they're known for this shit.

Post: #106

Man, you guys just reminded me of something. It hasn't been on my mind until now.

So I upgraded to an iphone last year, and my account had to be switched from prepaid to postpaid. The lady at the phone store gave my a temporary phone number until my number was ported. My bill instructed me to pay 80 bucks for my plan which I did but it never asked to pay for the phone. I talked to the lady at the store and she said everything was okay. Things were okay for a couple of months until I got a collection notice for not paying the phone. I called, and apparently the line was never fully transferred because the SSNs on the accounts were different.

In other words, the phone company fucked up and never updated my account so I never got billed...until it was posted to collections and then tagged to my name. Dem niggas want 600 bucks.

The phone was stolen as I got drunk while chilling with Lothario and left it at a restaurant's patio.

Any way I can get out of this mess?

Post: #107

It is good on the part of your original creditors if they are ready to settle the debt at 50%. If they transfer the collection power to the third party, then, in that case, you have to struggle hard for a good deal.

One more important thing to keep in mind is that, when you pay your debt in full after the settlement, never forget to get a letter from the creditor on the subject. Always keep this letter in your records because of collection agencies recycle debt. If it ever comes up again you fax them a letter showing that it has been paid.

You should have strong negotiation skills but if you think you are not capable of negotiating, then the best option is to take the services of the debt negotiating companies. Source:debtpro.co

Post: #108

Make sure you get in writing that any settlement you agree to pay will also require the creditors to remove the negative marks off your credit report. Don't pay unless they clean up your credit reports. Settlements that are showing will often be a cited reason when a loan officer does a manual review for new credit. Demand removal!

Post: #109

(11-16-2016 10:41 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 09:27 PM)Mayweather Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 08:52 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Good job on not letting it get to you, remember....you have all the power as long as they are not garnishing your wages. As soon as he tries to escalate it, tell him to fuck off or you'll hang up. He losses all leverage.

Wait for a bit, they are usually more agreeable near the end of the month/year as they want to meet their quota.

Funny thing is, it was email correspondence. I actually came into it trying to be reasonable and didn't attack him, as he was just doing a job was my mindset. As soon as I wasn't willing to budge he basically tried to give me a shit test like he had a pussy .

I'm glad I found this thread, I was literally going to pay in full earlier this week but now I realize why give my money away to people who are trying to extort me with interest. I settled with a more decent company the other day for a small (97$ bill) I had no clue about, until it went to collections. That was a smooth process as no one tried to stick their chest out on the phone or any shit like that.

This is the only thing fucking with my credit. I have one credit card with a balance of 0, so it's irritating me that this guy wants to go to war over this shit. But after I did research I realized there's commission involved that's why he's at my neck the way he is.

Another option you may want to discuss is a pay for delete. My understanding is that if the debt gets "deleted" it reflects better on your credit report/score than a paid in full or paid - settled.

A couple resources:
Page about the practice
Pay for Delete Letter Template

Working on a pay for delete right now. damn near impossible with the collection agency that owns my debt

Post: #110

I didn't read the whole thread, but as a bankruptcy attorney, I thought I'd add a few general considerations:

1. Any forgiven debt is technically income, according to the IRS. Save up for taxes on that income. Some states also tax you on it.

2. The best result to hope for is that the collection agencies will just keep reselling your debt until the Statute of Limitations takes effect (check your own jurisdiction's length; it's often between 2 and 4 years). Once that date passes, the law forbids any creditor from trying to enforce the debt.

3. Some creditors will try to sue to collect. Talk to a lawyer if it's a large amount, as you may have alternate legal strategies to try. Furthermore, if they have filed suit, their lawyers are much more likely to settle if your lawyer does the talking than if you do (plus, their lawyers aren't allowed to contact you when you're represented by one).

4. If the suit goes through, whether you fight it or not (always fight it if you can, and again, lawyer up to make sure your rights aren't trampled), that judgment is permanent. Only bankruptcy, or negotiating a settlement for less than the judgment amount (called Accord & Satisfaction) will make it go away.

5. As others have stated, get ANY deal in writing. I've seen the collector negotiate a settlement over the phone, then get paid, then have a new collector call demanding the remainder, claiming he has no record of the agreement, and of course the original guy 'no longer works here"

6. Piggybacking on #5 is: never put anything in writing yourself if you can avoid it. While you're at it, remember that they might be recording your calls. You are legally required to answer NO questions unless you're in an actual legal proceeding. I recommend declining to answer any question that doesn't begin with "Would you be willing to settle for X?"

7. Don't play their game. Keep each call to (1) "Hello" (2) "I can't pay that much. What's your best offer?" (3) If the offer is acceptable, "Please send that to me in writing." If not, "Please don't contact me again unless it's with a better offer." (4) "Goodbye." You want to say nothing more than this, including fulfilling your fantasy of telling the collector where he and his debt can go. Remember those recorded phone calls? Judges get to hear them all the time. Judges often rule for the side they like. Be likeable, or at least give no reason for one to find you unlikeable. I saw $75k in legally enforceable IRS debt written off in Tax Court just because the debtor came across as genuinely unaware that his gambling winnings (which he subsequently lost) were supposed to be reported, and he stated so in a way that portrayed him as helpless and naive, not as a scammer.

8. Finally, in a practical sense, there's no shame in getting a new phone and giving its number to only people who you would be willing to answer a call from. If you must keep the old phone, silence it until the Statute of Limitations has passed.

Post: #111

Consigliere Painter. Mass respect.

Post: #112

Interesting article by James Altucher on CC debt.

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2015/08/don...card-debt/

"Or if you answer the phone, record the conversation. Every state has different laws on how collection agencies are allowed to talk to you. You can google the laws in your state. It’s very easy to catch them breaking the law. Then you owe nothing. So record the conversations and try to get them angry."

"Since the collection agencies got your name from a hedge fund that might have bought only part of your debt from another hedge fund, who knows where that original proof is? It’s gone! They are required to show you proof if you ask."

Post: #113

I have invested in some shares of debt collection companies in Australia so I do know a little about the business model (similar business models apply in the U.S.A.). Typically defaulted Credit card debt might look something like this (simplified example that ignores accrued interest):

Joe Blow has a credit card with XYZ bank and defaults on $10,000 of credit card debt and is 6 months overdue (has not made a payment in 6 months). After chasing him with phone calls and letters for 6 months the bank decides to sell the debt to a debt collection company. They will typically sell an overdue credit card debt of this amount (on average) for somewhere between $1000 and $2000 (depending on the market conditions and the individual characteristics of the debt) to a debt collection agency (assuming they decide to sell it outright instead of using commission/"contingency"/"mercantile" collections agents). The debt collection agency will then try their best to squeeze the full $10,000 out of Joe Blow. If Joe Blow just before the 6 month period ended decided to call or visit the bank and negotiate a settlement of say $3000 (depending on his negotiating skills) there is a good chance the bank would accept it as that is much more than would they could get for it by selling it to a debt collection company. Depending on market/economic conditions and your negotiating skills, income level and asset level, etc if you are really lucky you might be able to negotiate the debt down to 25% of face value (i.e. $2500 in this example). But that is probably unlikely and would be an unusually good result. There have been individual cases where it has been negotiated down to 10% of face value but those are outliers. 30% of face value is a realistic target to aim for in most cases. Like others have stated if you are willing to drag everything out for years you can maybe push the settlement down to 10 or 20% with a debt collection agency but if you want to put things behind you quickly and avoid years of headache, negotiate a 30% settlement.

The reason the debt collection companies pay such a low price (to the banks) for the debts is because they have overheads (rent, employees, software, etc) and something like 50% of the time they never collect a single dollar of the debt either because they could not find the person or the person was 100% broke with no assets and very little income. So they have to pay a low price and try and squeeze people (the ones that do pay something) for the maximum amount so they can turn a reasonable profit.

Note:
In the James Altucher article were hedge funds bought debts for 3 to 6 cents in the dollar is probably the lower quality bottom of the barrel defaulted debts on the banks books and that was probably back in the years shortly after the 2008/2009 financial crises. Average quality defaulted credit card debt in a normal market environment will generally go for 10 to 20 cents in the dollar to a debt collection agency (its more common for debt to be sold to a debt collection agency rather than a hedge fund especially these days as the legislation has changed in recent years).

It does vary by state partly due to the different state laws that affect things. To expect to be able to settle your debts for less than 10 cents in the dollar as James suggests is unrealistic in most cases. You only have to look at the annual reports of companies like PRA group or Encore to see that debt collection is definitely on average less profitable than James makes it out to be.

Post: #114

There is not as much transparency in the U.S. market on this particular metric so its more difficult to tell what debt collection companies pay for their debts as a percentage of face value but in Australia which is a somewhat similar market you can see for example from this 2014 broker report that Pioneer Credit (Australia third largest debt collection company) paid on average 10-20 cents in the dollar to buy debts from the banks, etc. http://corporate.pioneercredit.com.au/wp...e-2014.pdf also in the same report on page 8 its revealed that the debt collection industry purchased between 1.9 billion and 2.9 billion of debts for around $300 million dollars, also implying a 10-20 cents on the dollar average purchase price for the industry in Australia. If you dig around you can see most years in Australia, defaulted consumer debts are purchased for 10-20 cents on the dollar on average.

This wikipedia article paints a picture of U.S.A. debt prices over time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_buyer...ed_States)

here is what the article states:
"As a result of the 2008 economic downturn, prices for the best accounts fell from the 2007-2008 high of 14 cents on the dollar to 4–7 cents.[22] According to the Payments Source 2009 web-page, depending on the age and history of the debt, a buyer typically paid between 3 and 20 percent of the face value of the debt. Accounts that come directly from the original creditor without having been placed with a collection agency have the highest value, with prices decreasing based on the amount of time that has passed since the account has charged off.[22]"

Given that we are now almost in boom time conditions in the U.S.A. and its been a long time since the last crises, one would expect perhaps that reasonable quality defaulted debts would sell for similar prices to 2007/2008 again of 10-20 cents in the dollar. When people talk about debts going for 4 cents on the dollar that is debts that are many years over due.

Debt that is for example 6 months overdue will typically go for 10-20 cents on the dollar. In summary I would say that if your debt is 6-12 months overdue and is still with the original lender 30% of face value might be a reasonable sort of settlement figure. In the past the U.S.A. debt collection industry was a lot more wild west than Australia or New Zeraland and a lot of other countries, however that is changing and regulations in the U.S.A. have tightened up in the last 2 years.

Post: #115

Not making any moral judgements but from the perspective of being a man and living up to my obligations not a huge fan of spending and not paying in general. At the end of the day standup people who pay wind up picking up your debt essentially in the form of higher intersest across the board or bullshit fees.

That said I was able years ago to negotiate paying $400 per mo with an auto deposit in order to have them cut the interest to like 0% or 1% where as before it was at like 20% and I'd never have been able to dig out of the hole. I get digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of but I still paid off every penny I owed just at a lower interest rate.

Keep in mind it will not show as paid in full if you get a partial payment settlement so it will still harm your credit and its income to you at tax time.

I'm somewhat disapointed by this thread. I thought this was supposed to be a forum of hustlers and standup guys and people improving themselves and rather than making money and paying your own way were all here talking about how to run up debt and not pay it? common.

Post: #116

(08-10-2017 12:30 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  Not making any moral judgements but from the perspective of being a man and living up to my obligations not a huge fan of spending and not paying in general. At the end of the day standup people who pay wind up picking up your debt essentially in the form of higher intersest across the board or bullshit fees.

That said I was able years ago to negotiate paying $400 per mo with an auto deposit in order to have them cut the interest to like 0% or 1% where as before it was at like 20% and I'd never have been able to dig out of the hole. I get digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of but I still paid off every penny I owed just at a lower interest rate.

Keep in mind it will not show as paid in full if you get a partial payment settlement so it will still harm your credit and its income to you at tax time.

I'm somewhat disapointed by this thread. I thought this was supposed to be a forum of hustlers and standup guys and people improving themselves and rather than making money and paying your own way were all here talking about how to run up debt and not pay it? common.

Ummm.. I was thinking the same thing. Yes, credit card companies are usurious, yes credit is to easy to come by and the consumer sometimes is tricked, yes people have unexpected health bills/auto-repair bills and other sudden expenses, I acknowledge it. But we also have to admit that for the vast majority of people in credit card debt, it was overspending and the desire to have what we think everyone else has that caused the problem. We all like the latest fancy shoes and big screen TVs and super fast laptops, even some of the men here who go on about minimalism and welfare and personal responsibility.

However, what's even worse than being a mindless consumer, as jamaicabound so delicately put it, is that we then try to get out of paying. People discuss paying off their debts in low-interest installments, or making companies settle for a few pennies on the dollar as if they deserve it, as if Sony or Nike or Apple is to blame and fuck it, this is what they deserve. Phil Knight and Steve Jobs didn't hold a gun to your head when you applied for that department store card for the 10% discount on the outdoor furniture that you don't even need.

As a side note, I don't think the problem is credit. It's the bankers selling it, and the uninformed consumers purchasing it. Without credit, or more specifically debt, I wouldn't have been able to pursue higher education, buy a house or have kids. Without it many men here probably wouldn't have their businesses, or perhaps their boss couldn't afford to hire them.

Credit is an incredibly powerful tool of economic growth. Unfortunately, it's been perverted from that into something people use to get a fancier car to feel better about themselves, with the rest of us picking up the tab.